The Academies

Lucas44 · 22-01-2021 2:58pm

FrannoFan wrote: »

I'd say a lot of Leinster academy lads live at home.

Ringrose is still living at home!

Expensive place to rent and on buttons.

majority of academy players live together in and around Ucd..

Find it hard to believe ringrose wouldn’t be able to pay for accommodation if he really wanted, him & his brother both went to blackrock. That’s the guts of 250k for secondary school so perhaps not the best example

As for academy players on buttons, there 8k of buttons is 8k more than the students that pay for accommodation in dublin get. Don’t forget a lot of the academy players are also students too, hence get helped out by scholarships in some cases for accommodation on college campuses.

The players not being able to afford it is definitely not what’s holding back a centralised academy, it’s the fact it’s a poor idea and deteriorates the value of playing for one province and would almost certainly end with a huge lack of motivation/jobs for development officers and coaches in provinces from u17- sub academy

arsebiscuits1 · 22-01-2021 3:07pm

Lucas44 wrote: »

majority of academy players live together in and around Ucd..

Find it hard to believe ringrose wouldn’t be able to pay for accommodation if he really wanted, him & his brother both went to blackrock. That’s the guts of 250k for secondary school so perhaps not the best example

As for academy players on buttons, there 8k of buttons is 8k more than the students that pay for accommodation in dublin get. Don’t forget a lot of the academy players are also students too, hence get helped out by scholarships in some cases for accommodation on college campuses.

The players not being able to afford it is definitely not what’s holding back a centralised academy, it’s the fact it’s a poor idea and deteriorates the value of playing for one province and would almost certainly end with a huge lack of motivation/jobs for development officers and coaches in provinces from u17- sub academy

I can tell you with the utmost certainty that this is not true.

Not even close to being true.

stellenbosch · 22-01-2021 3:11pm

FrannoFan wrote: »

I'd say a lot of Leinster academy lads live at home.

Ringrose is still living at home!

Expensive place to rent and on buttons.

Ringer does not live at home

bayern · 22-01-2021 3:17pm

Best academy prospects by position:

LH Prop
Josh Wycherley(Munster) -u22

TH Prop
Tom Clarkson(Leinster) -u21

Hooker
Tom Stewart(Ulster) -u20

Lock
Tom Aherne(Munster) -u21

Backrow
John Hodnett(Munster) -u22

Scrumhalf
Colm Reilly(Connacht) -u22

Outhalf
Ben Healy(Munster) -u22

Centre
Hayden Hyde(Ulster) -u21

Back Three
Ethan McIlroy(Ulster) -u21

Dubinusa · 22-01-2021 3:36pm

My idea was to have a clubs academy for the best young clubs lads. The academy would have living quarters and would be seasonal, perhaps during July.
It wouldn't be full time. More of a top level skills and fitness course.
I think it would make sense. It would obviously be a talent type contest. Bring in top class coaching and staff and gauge where the players are.

Locke_Lamora · 22-01-2021 3:39pm

bayern wrote: »

Best academy prospects by position:

LH Prop
Josh Wycherley(Munster) -u22

TH Prop
Tom Clarkson(Leinster) -u21

Hooker
Tom Stewart(Ulster) -u20

Lock
Tom Aherne(Munster) -u21

Backrow
John Hodnett(Munster) -u22

Scrumhalf
Colm Reilly(Connacht) -u22

Outhalf
Ben Healy(Munster) -u22

Centre
Hayden Hyde(Ulster) -u21

Back Three
Ethan McIlroy(Ulster) -u21

Think I'd agree with that except maybe the backrow. Not sure who I'd pick there, Hodnett's been great so far but I might go for Soroka. He hasn't played well in the A's and looks a little unfit but I like his chances as a long-term prospect - looked very very good for the u20's last year and I think he'll need time to build up his frame.

Not many great centres knocking about at the moment. Think Hyde will struggle to get ahead of Hume and Moore (who was promoted early from the academy I think).

I'd agree with McIlroy in the back three but suspect Andrew Smith will have a few people who'll vouch for him.

Lost Ormond · 22-01-2021 3:42pm

Lucas44 wrote: »

majority of academy players live together in and around Ucd..

Find it hard to believe ringrose wouldn’t be able to pay for accommodation if he really wanted, him & his brother both went to blackrock. That’s the guts of 250k for secondary school so perhaps not the best example

As for academy players on buttons, there 8k of buttons is 8k more than the students that pay for accommodation in dublin get. Don’t forget a lot of the academy players are also students too, hence get helped out by scholarships in some cases for accommodation on college campuses.

The players not being able to afford it is definitely not what’s holding back a centralised academy, it’s the fact it’s a poor idea and deteriorates the value of playing for one province and would almost certainly end with a huge lack of motivation/jobs for development officers and coaches in provinces from u17- sub academy

Sec school cost wouldnt be 250k. Its expensive but for 2 brothers not boarding its not near 250k
Would agree with you about academy players and benefits over normal students.
I agree its a poor idea. I dont think it would reduce the value of playing for any one province and certainly dont agree that it would change the motivation levels of many of the development officers/coaches within provinces from u16 or 17 as IMO they would be thinking a lot more about it being great these guys are simply playing pro...

Dubinusa wrote: »

My idea was to have a clubs academy for the best young clubs lads. The academy would have living quarters and would be seasonal, perhaps during July.
It wouldn't be full time. More of a top level skills and fitness course.
I think it would make sense. It would obviously be a talent type contest. Bring in top class coaching and staff and gauge where the players are.

What do you mean by club academy?
There already is a seasonal set up in the summer where players live in for under 18s/19s and sub academy.
Its through July and August.

Many older players can be and have been added on training contracts either from start of pre season or any other stage of season where they train with province and some play A games or pre season games

bayern · 22-01-2021 3:43pm

Soroka has a long way to go before i'd rate him ahead of Hodnett or David McCann, and given his pure size I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up at lock.

McIlroy has looked much better than Smith to date.

arsebiscuits1 · 22-01-2021 3:59pm

bayern wrote: »

Soroka has a long way to go before i'd rate him ahead of Hodnett or David McCann, and given his pure size I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up at lock.

McIlroy has looked much better than Smith to date.

McIlroy getting European starts on merit has him as the standout academy player (although I suspect he's already been promoted for next year)

Superb player

Dubinusa · 23-01-2021 6:09am

Festive Life wrote: »

Sec school cost wouldnt be 250k. Its expensive but for 2 brothers not boarding its not near 250k
Would agree with you about academy players and benefits over normal students.
I agree its a poor idea. I dont think it would reduce the value of playing for any one province and certainly dont agree that it would change the motivation levels of many of the development officers/coaches within provinces from u16 or 17 as IMO they would be thinking a lot more about it being great these guys are simply playing pro...

What do you mean by club academy?
There already is a seasonal set up in the summer where players live in for under 18s/19s and sub academy.
Its through July and August.

Many older players can be and have been added on training contracts either from start of pre season or any other stage of season where they train with province and some play A games or pre season games

I didn't know! Thanks for the info.

Dubinusa · 23-01-2021 6:12am

bayern wrote: »

Soroka has a long way to go before i'd rate him ahead of Hodnett or David McCann, and given his pure size I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up at lock.

McIlroy has looked much better than Smith to date.

Soroka is still just 19. Looks like a good prospect. I think he could be Leinster's future 6. Of course, Maloney will undoubtedly get a shot too.
I also think Soroka could possibly be tried at 8! He's really going to struggle to get time as a lock, imo.

bayern · 23-01-2021 10:10am

Dubinusa wrote: »

Soroka is still just 19. Looks like a good prospect. I think he could be Leinster's future 6. Of course, Maloney will undoubtedly get a shot too.
I also think Soroka could possibly be tried at 8! He's really going to struggle to get time as a lock, imo.

he has been playing 8 at this season, but I doubt he will be playing there in two years time.

He has played lock at underage and has the size/power combo to be a top international at that position as well as at 6. Same can't be said for the other academy locks in leinster. And there is plenty of opportunity at lock for gametime at Leinster, certainly when compared to backrow.

Number 137 · 25-01-2021 4:25pm

bayern wrote: »

Best academy prospects by position:

LH Prop
Josh Wycherley(Munster) -u22

TH Prop
Tom Clarkson(Leinster) -u21

Hooker
Tom Stewart(Ulster) -u20

Lock
Tom Aherne(Munster) -u21

Backrow
John Hodnett(Munster) -u22

Scrumhalf
Colm Reilly(Connacht) -u22

Outhalf
Ben Healy(Munster) -u22

Centre
Hayden Hyde(Ulster) -u21

Back Three
Ethan McIlroy(Ulster) -u21

Isn't Colm Reilly already on a senior contract with Connacht?

bayern · 25-01-2021 4:27pm

Number 137 wrote: »

Isn't Colm Reilly already on a senior contract with Connacht?

quite possibly

bayern · 19-02-2021 9:23am

Peter Smyth:

Smyth insists the IRFU do not intend to introduce a central academy system, but he acknowledges that more movement of young players between provinces is inevitable.

“It’s always the case, ultimately, that players will seek the best opportunity to play the game.

"The system is there to provide players with the resource and abilities to maximise their talent and provide them with playing opportunities.

“After that, it’s up to the player to see where those best opportunities are for him.”

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/other-rugby/dropout-danger-as-talented-players-have-their-rugby-futures-put-on-hold-40107890.html

bayern · 19-02-2021 9:32am

Currently, there are 65 NTS players across the four provinces, with 255 PTS players. In normal times, these youngsters make up the age-grade inter-provincial and national teams and are working to earn a place in one of the four academies in Munster, Leinster, Connacht, and Ulster.

Right now, nearly all of those 320 players are training remotely, with only academy-contracted players – there are 67 of them in total – and senior professionals allowed to train together in Level 5.

Naas man Jamie Osborne has just been upgraded from the NTS into the Leinster academy after his recent senior debut for the province, while the same has happened for Ulster man Ben Moxham. Other hopefuls haven’t had chances to impress on the pitch.

https://www.the42.ie/ulster-glasgow-5358708-Feb2021/#

RuPi · 19-02-2021 11:28am

bayern wrote: »

https://www.the42.ie/ulster-glasgow-5358708-Feb2021/#

Interesting he says the NTS/PTS are training remotely, not the case in Ulster, 2/3 sessions a week going on.

bayern · 19-02-2021 11:38am

RuPi wrote: »

Interesting he says the NTS/PTS are training remotely, not the case in Ulster, 2/3 sessions a week going on.

As in the sub academy or lads still in school?

RuPi · 19-02-2021 11:42am

bayern wrote: »

As in the sub academy or lads still in school?

Both are training together.

Lost Ormond · 19-02-2021 9:08pm

So who are the top players per position right now in academies etc... havent seen a thread about it....

Wonder how many of the 200+ who're training remotely now will still be playing in 2/3 years time. Needs to be big change with how rugby competitions are set up for next season to get as many as possible onto pitches as much as possible considering it will be so long since people will hvae been playing rugby regularly

Hands Like Flippers · 20-02-2021 12:02pm

bayern wrote: »

Peter Smyth:

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/other-rugby/dropout-danger-as-talented-players-have-their-rugby-futures-put-on-hold-40107890.html

Very disappointing for the younger guys coming through. Training with no games for a full year. Now, possibly Christmas before they hear anything. Can't imagine that IRFU is saving very much with this approach.

bayern · 26-02-2021 12:58pm

Academy players playing pro 14 rugby this weekend:

Munster: none
Ulster: Cormac Izuchukwu
Connacht: none
Leinster: Tom Clarkson, Alex Soroka, David Hawksahw, Jamie Osborne

bayern · 03-03-2021 12:51pm

Academy players who've gotten senior game time this season:

Leinster
Liam Turner(21/Centre) - 6 senior apps(363 mins), injured.
Max O’Reilly(20/Fullback) - 4 senior apps(243 mins)
Tom Clarkson(20/TH Prop) - 6 senior apps(194 mins)
Michael Milne(21/LH Prop) - 5 senior apps(154 mins), injured.
David Hawkshaw(21/Outhalf-Centre) - 7 senior apps(129 mins)
Jamie Osborne(19/Centre) - 3 senior apps(100 mins)
Andrew Smith(20/Wing) - 1 senior app(80 mins), injured.
Michael Silvester(22/Fullback) - 2 senior apps(55 mins), injured.
Alex Soroka(20/Backrow) - 1 senior app(22 min)
Marcus Hanan(20/LH Prop) - 1 senior app(15 min)

Munster
Ben Healy(21/Outhalf) - 12 senior apps(525 mins)
Josh Wycherley(21/LH Prop) - 9 senior apps(322 mins)
John Hodnett(22/Backrow) - 3 senior apps(193 mins), injured.
Tom Ahern(20/Lock) - 4 senior apps(119 mins)
Sean French(21/Wing) - 1 senior app(58 mins)
Jack Daly(22/Backrow) - 1 senior app(22 mins)
Jack Crowley(21/Outhalf) - 1 senior app(14 mins)
Jake Flannery(21/Outhalf) - 1 senior app(7 mins)

Ulster
Ethan McIlroy(20/Back Three) - 7 senior apps(315 mins)
David McCann(20/Backrow) - 3 senior apps(116 mins)
Aaron Sexton(20/Back Three) - 1 senior app(72 mins)
Cormac Izuchukwu(21/Lock) - 2 senior apps(41 mins)
Callum Reid(22/LH Prop) - 1 senior app(32 mins)
Ben Moxham(19/Wing) - 2 senior apps(21 mins)
Nathan Doak(19/Scrumhalf) - 1 senior app(15 mins)

Connacht
Sean O'Brien(22/Centre) - 4 senior app(117 mins)
Cian Prendergast(21/Lock-Blindside) - 4 senior app(85 mins)
Colm De Buitlear(23/Wing) - 2 senior app(77 mins)
Diarmuid Kilgallen(20/Wing) - 1 senior app(5 mins)

Paul Smeenus · 03-03-2021 12:57pm

bayern wrote: »

Academy players who've gotten senior game time this season:

Leinster
Liam Turner(21/Centre) - 6 senior apps(363 mins), injured.
Max O’Reilly(20/Fullback) - 4 senior apps(243 mins)
Tom Clarkson(20/TH Prop) - 6 senior apps(194 mins)
Michael Milne(21/LH Prop) - 5 senior apps(154 mins), injured.
David Hawkshaw(21/Outhalf-Centre) - 7 senior apps(129 mins)
Jamie Osborne(19/Centre) - 3 senior apps(100 mins)
Andrew Smith(20/Wing) - 1 senior app(80 mins), injured.
Michael Silvester(22/Fullback) - 2 senior apps(55 mins), injured.
Alex Soroka(20/Backrow) - 1 senior app(22 min)
Marcus Hanan(20/LH Prop) - 1 senior app(15 min)

Munster
Ben Healy(21/Outhalf) - 12 senior apps(525 mins)
Josh Wycherley(21/LH Prop) - 9 senior apps(322 mins)
John Hodnett(22/Backrow) - 3 senior apps(193 mins), injured.
Tom Ahern(20/Lock) - 4 senior apps(119 mins)
Sean French(21/Wing) - 1 senior app(58 mins)
Jack Daly(22/Backrow) - 1 senior app(22 mins)
Jack Crowley(21/Outhalf) - 1 senior app(14 mins)
Jake Flannery(21/Outhalf) - 1 senior app(7 mins)

Ulster
Ethan McIlroy(20/Back Three) - 7 senior apps(315 mins)
David McCann(20/Backrow) - 3 senior apps(116 mins)
Aaron Sexton(20/Back Three) - 1 senior app(72 mins)
Cormac Izuchukwu(21/Lock) - 2 senior apps(41 mins)
Callum Reid(22/LH Prop) - 1 senior app(32 mins)
Nathan Doak(19/Scrumhalf) - 1 senior app(15 mins)

Connacht
Sean O'Brien(22/Centre) - 4 senior app(117 mins)
Cian Prendergast(21/Lock-Blindside) - 4 senior app(85 mins)
Colm De Buitlear(23/Wing) - 2 senior app(77 mins)

That's fantastic to see. Especially players like Turner, Healy, Wycherley and McIlroy who have serious minutes under their belt.

Thanks for the work Bayern. Any chance of sub-academy players?

And do we know examples of Academy players from other provinces like Tom Stewart, who would have featured but for injury?

bayern · 03-03-2021 12:58pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

That's fantastic to see. Especially players like Turner, Healy, Wycherley and McIlroy who have serious minutes under their belt.

Thanks for the work Bayern. Any chance of sub-academy players?

such as who?

i've covered all academy/sub academy players who have played senior afaik.

Paul Smeenus · 03-03-2021 1:00pm

bayern wrote: »

such as who?

i've covered all academy/sub academy players who have played senior afaik.

Ben Moxham. Two caps, against Munster and Connacht, if I recall properly.

If you're going to do it, do it right. Don't shake our trust in you.

bayern · 03-03-2021 1:02pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Ben Moxham. Two caps, against Munster and Connacht, if I recall properly.

If you're going to do it, do it right. Don't shake our trust in you.

ah yes, I forgot about him.

Paul Smeenus · 03-03-2021 1:03pm

bayern wrote: »

ah yes, I forgot about him.

SHAMBLES

realhorrorshow · 03-03-2021 1:56pm

Diarmuid Kilgallen has a whopping 5 minutes for Connacht.

bayern · 11-03-2021 4:22pm

Lam after giving Tadhg McElroy a trial with Bristol:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/bristol-bears-bring-hooker-looking-5133583

The Academies

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