AEW - All Elite Wrestling (Spoilers for Latest Show)

beakerjoe · 17-12-2019 10:08pm

Only getting around to watching Dynamite. An excellent show.

Jericho and Moxley going down the slow burner route is a good play. Basic and simple angle done masterfully. Jericho when not trying to be funny, is so captivating on the mic. His promo was top notch.

The MJF promo was just as good. Love this guy. Witty, arrogant, great delivery and cocky as hell. Love this slow burner feud with Cody. Hes must see every time hed on the mic. Very similar to The Miz. Naturally gifted speaker but lacking somewhat on ring.

The main event tag match was almost perfect. Great timing, had a big fight feel and didnt drag on. I wish the tag match with SCU wasnt so soon though. The match needs more heat. All 4 men looked great though.

First time seeing BBB in action snd they were decent enough the match was sloppy at times but overall it was a fine TV match. I fear for Darby Allan after coming out in the end. He needs his own program rather than small 2 week feuds with Jericho, Mox and now potentially Cody.

Swole looked good in ring, early days but looked impressive.

Omega and Hangman teasing something is interesting. Omegas great to watch in ring but his charcater needs some freshing up. Same for hangman. I wouldnt be against these feuding.

Hated Janela tying up Tully. It looked so cartoony.

Luchasaurus vs Sammy was good but slow moving at time. With Mox vs Jericho the main feud and still being showcased ive no problem with Jungle Boy being the sidefeud. Loved the pin on Jericho at the end great touch.

Overall a great episode. 2 great promos 1 top drawer match some decent tv matches. Happy out

beakerjoe · 17-12-2019 10:09pm

Monokne wrote: »

If Jericho does the honours for Tanahashi while he is AEW champion, that's a really bad look I think.

I agree, terrible decision.

beakerjoe · 17-12-2019 11:01pm

CastorTroy wrote: »

I think the "All Out" was named as such due to one or both of Going "All Out" and the fact the previous year's PPV that pretty much started it all was called "All In"

Revolution is fine. It could be worse. Breakdown, Fastlane, Battleground, Crown Jewel, Sin, Greed, The Bash, so many poor names by all companies over the years.

Monokne · 18-12-2019 12:00am

Exactly. Revolution is inoffensive.

Also, you forgot GREAT BALLS OF FIRE.

Agent Coulson · 19-12-2019 1:25pm

The picture in Picture ad break bit by Jericho was brilliant.

Another top class show by AEW.

grames_bond · 19-12-2019 1:46pm

Even looking at twitter talk, I can see nothing but an NXT win this week. with them recording a show for xmas day AEW could possibly fall further behind!

The White Wolf · 19-12-2019 1:52pm

grames_bond wrote: »

Even looking at twitter talk, I can see nothing but an NXT win this week. with them recording a show for xmas day AEW could possibly fall further behind!

Was wondering if the E would seize the opportunity. No rest for the wicked.

2ndcoming · 19-12-2019 2:32pm

beakerjoe wrote: »

Revolution is fine. It could be worse. Breakdown, Fastlane, Battleground, Crown Jewel, Sin, Greed, The Bash, so many poor names by all companies over the years.

I thought Sin and Greed were both very fitting of the time.

It was a Sin that they let Greed and Complacency destroy the company.

Especially before the Complacency PPV got to happen.

Monokne · 19-12-2019 5:57pm

This week felt like a real tipping point for AEW.

The audience they are after are craving two things - new stars, and a WWE alternative.

That main event angle was exactly the type of garbage that has driven fans away from WWE for years. I cannot fathom why they think this stuff is a good idea. It's like 2008 Impact. The silence of the crowd spoke volumes. It was bad in and of itself but the fact the Dark Order got over on all the big stars of the promotions made it worse and brings me to my second point.

When Dynamite started, you had 4 clear babyface stars above everyone else in Omega, the Bucks and Cody. I don't think Cody has been irreparably damaged, but Omega & the Young Bucks have been in such a rush to make others stars that they have forgotten to get themselves over. They feel less important and less special now by a mile than they did when the promotion began.

Meanwhile, NXT is giving viewers EXACTLY the things AEW promised - serious wrestling, logical storylines, & matches with stakes.

Neil3030 · 19-12-2019 7:48pm

Last night's episode of Dynamite was not their strongest, that's for sure.

This Dark Order thing is being pushed so strongly, you have to imagine that either one of the Elite (including Marty) is behind the whole thing. Page is clearly being set up as the teaser, but I feel that a swerve may be in the works. Maybe Omega? His personality is so niche, this cultish faction could be a great way to get him over as a top heel.

The White Wolf · 19-12-2019 7:57pm

I mean to put it simply there's no reason why BOTH Cody and Omega should be shying away from that top spot. Meltzer hit the nail on the head by saying you'd almost need a Hogan in there, calling the shots and putting himself before others as he is the star.

Would smarks really have given a **** if these guys rightfully put themselves front and centre? Because that's who it feels like they're afraid of booking the way they are.

CastorTroy · 19-12-2019 8:05pm

I'm someone who only watched the occasional NJPW event. Omega looked great in those events and also looked big compared to a lot of the others. Now he's beaten regularly enough and fighting really frequently and doesn't seem to have the same presence in the ring.

Neil3030 · 19-12-2019 8:32pm

CastorTroy wrote: »

I'm someone who only watched the occasional NJPW event. Omega looked great in those events and also looked big compared to a lot of the others. Now he's beaten regularly enough and fighting really frequently and doesn't seem to have the same presence in the ring.

He also doesn't have Okada, Ibushi, Naito etc. to dance with.

Plus as a largely silent gaijin heel, we didn't get to know him too well... which was a good thing, tbh.

Itssoeasy · 19-12-2019 11:04pm

Maybe someone who watches AEW and follows it more than me can answer this. MJF according to Brandi Rhodes is off the media list for AEW interviews and the like. Now whenever I read stuff like this nowadays I do think it’s a work until proven outer wise. But I follow MJF on Twitter and he never seems to be “out of character” and he’s a brilliant heel and a star in the making.

My question is has he said something on AEW TV or some interview that crossed a line ? I could easily see how a non wrestling fan could take what he says to heart and he doesn’t hold back.

Neil3030 · 19-12-2019 11:29pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Maybe someone who watches AEW and follows it more than me can answer this. MJF according to Brandi Rhodes is off the media list for AEW interviews and the like. Now whenever I read stuff like this nowadays I do think it’s a work until proven outer wise. But I follow MJF on Twitter and he never seems to be “out of character” and he’s a brilliant heel and a star in the making.

My question is has he said something on AEW TV or some interview that crossed a line ? I could easily see how a non wrestling fan could take what he says to heart and he doesn’t hold back.

I presumed that came after he insulted Cody's lisp?

Itssoeasy · 19-12-2019 11:31pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

I presumed that came after he insulted Cody's lisp?

Fair enough. As I say I watch nxt more than I watch AEW. I've seen bits of it but not everything that's happened. So it's a work then.

Monokne · 20-12-2019 1:16am

Monokne wrote: »

This week felt like a real tipping point for AEW.

The audience they are after are craving two things - new stars, and a WWE alternative.

That main event angle was exactly the type of garbage that has driven fans away from WWE for years. I cannot fathom why they think this stuff is a good idea. It's like 2008 Impact. The silence of the crowd spoke volumes. It was bad in and of itself but the fact the Dark Order got over on all the big stars of the promotions made it worse and brings me to my second point.

When Dynamite started, you had 4 clear babyface stars above everyone else in Omega, the Bucks and Cody. I don't think Cody has been irreparably damaged, but Omega & the Young Bucks have been in such a rush to make others stars that they have forgotten to get themselves over. They feel less important and less special now by a mile than they did when the promotion began.

Meanwhile, NXT is giving viewers EXACTLY the things AEW promised - serious wrestling, logical storylines, & matches with stakes.

This was oddly prescient given the numbers a couple hours later:

AEW - 683k, 0.24 in 18-49's.
NXT - 795k, 0.27 in 18-49's.

First time NXT has won that demo. Really feels like the momentum has shifted.

Neil3030 · 20-12-2019 1:38am

Monokne wrote: »

This was oddly prescient given the numbers a couple hours later:

AEW - 683k, 0.24 in 18-49's.
NXT - 795k, 0.27 in 18-49's.

First time NXT has won that demo. Really feels like the momentum has shifted.

As long as NXT can keep putting matches like Balor and Cole on TV, without killing intrigue, they'll win on a week-by-week basis.

The question is, can they do that?

20-12-2019 1:51am

NXT doesn't have anyone performing with their hands in their pockets.

Tends to help.

Jerichoholic · 20-12-2019 7:13am

Neil3030 wrote: »

As long as NXT can keep putting matches like Balor and Cole on TV, without killing intrigue, they'll win on a week-by-week basis.

The question is, can they do that?

That NXT was built as a Takeover level show, so they won't be doing it every week. It should have won by a much bigger margin really.

Johnny Sausage · 20-12-2019 8:33am

Deleted User wrote: »

At least nobody was wrestling with their hands in their pockets.

Deleted User wrote: »

Which is still not as ridiculous as a fella 'wrestling' with his hands in his pockets.

Deleted User wrote: »

NXT doesn't have anyone performing with their hands in their pockets.

Tends to help.

that gimmick must really bug you :pac:

Blue_Dabadee · 20-12-2019 10:36am

Honestly, I don't think would watch Dynamite without Chris Jericho.

sirmanga · 20-12-2019 1:28pm

According to his Twitter, Cody thinks the new Star Wars abomination is a "great movie".

The state of AEW's creative now makes sense.

The White Wolf · 20-12-2019 1:44pm

All the yanks eat up Abrams output. Wouldn't hold it against him being a fan.

Lithium93_ · 20-12-2019 2:11pm

sirmanga wrote: »

According to his Twitter, Cody thinks the new Star Wars abomination is a "great movie".

The state of AEW's creative now makes sense.

Confusing Cody's love for Star Wars and using it as a stick to beat AEW creative with, it's a bit of a stretch to be honest..

sirmanga · 20-12-2019 2:27pm

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Confusing Cody's love for Star Wars and using it as a stick to beat AEW creative with, it's a bit of a stretch to be honest..

Yeah, I don't think I was being fair. This new Star Wars was like it was written by someone on speed. Things being done and undone and stuff happening for no reason and without explanation.
However, at least there was something actually happening in it. Unlike AEW Dynamite.

Lithium93_ · 20-12-2019 2:36pm

sirmanga wrote: »

Yeah, I don't think I was being fair. This new Star Wars was like it was written by someone on speed. Things being done and undone and stuff happening for no reason and without explanation.
However, at least there was something actually happening in it. Unlike AEW Dynamite.

The script for it was written well before AEW was even a reality, and following on from The Last Jedi, so it's kind of an unfair comparison, that said it was more enjoyable than The Last Jedi anyways :pac:, but I've some minor complaints with the film.

Then again, everything has it's ups and downs, good times, bad times. Doesn't help that everything is looked at through a hyped up social media context.

sirmanga · 20-12-2019 2:47pm

Wouldn't surprise me if Cody didn't even like Star Wars. Probably just saying he does to work the nerd chic/ Hot Topic crowd that make up a big portion of the Star Wars and AEW fan bases.

Seriously though, Star Wars was rubbish. But at least there was some talking points coming out of it. Wish I could say the same for Dynamite. What a slog it is.

Agent Coulson · 20-12-2019 2:47pm

If your talking anything about the film put in spoilers! Already giving away things storyline wise ffs.

sirmanga · 20-12-2019 2:52pm

Agent Coulson wrote: »

If your talking anything about the film put in spoilers! Already giving away things storyline wise ffs.

Didn't give one spoiler. Maybe I should, spare you from seeing it.

Anyway, back to AEW!.... Unfortunately

Jerichoholic · 20-12-2019 2:54pm

sirmanga wrote: »

Didn't give one spoiler. Maybe I should, spare you from seeing it.

Anyway, back to AEW!.... Unfortunately

How do you manage Raw if you think AEW is a "slog"?

sirmanga · 20-12-2019 3:00pm

Jerichoholic wrote: »

How do you manage Raw if you think AEW is a "slog"?

Raw is absolutely crap. But at least it evokes a negative emotion. AEW is just... nothing. It doesn't even make me care enough to hate it.

Jerichoholic · 20-12-2019 3:02pm

Well, maybe pro wrestling is not for you

Lithium93_ · 20-12-2019 3:02pm

So why watch it then?

Monokne · 20-12-2019 3:04pm

Jerichoholic wrote: »

That NXT was built as a Takeover level show, so they won't be doing it every week. It should have won by a much bigger margin really.

Their biggest demo is 50+ and it went head to head with THE IMPEACHMENT OF THE PRESIDENT.

It's a strong number in the circumstances.

Monokne · 20-12-2019 3:07pm

sirmanga wrote: »

Raw is absolutely crap. But at least it evokes a negative emotion. AEW is just... nothing. It doesn't even make me care enough to hate it.

I know when I am picking viewing choices, I am certainly thinking "What can I watch that will really irritate me?"

Monokne · 20-12-2019 3:10pm

Incidentally, someone went to the trouble of tabulating AEW's week 1 - 12 decline:

P18-49 -63%
F18-34 -63%
M18-49 -63%
P18-34 -71%
F12-34 -57%
M12-34 -62%
P25-54 -62%
P50+ -21%

They were ALWAYS guaranteed to have a big decline after the curiousity factor of week 1 & 2. That has to be taken as red. But the decline is precipitous. Almost three quarters of the people between 18 & 34 who watched week one are gone by week twelve.

There is a market for alternative pro wrestling. Maybe AEW will fill it one day. There's a lot to like about their show. But they are undeniably missing the mark. And that story on the whole has very little to do with NXT, either.

sirmanga · 20-12-2019 3:19pm

Jerichoholic wrote: »

Well, maybe pro wrestling is not for you

I don't get this argument. I've watched wrestling my entire life. I know how good it can be. That's why I keep watching.
Just like I haven't stopped watching Arsenal matches. God knows I'd be better off if I did. But I'm a fan.

Lithium93_ · 20-12-2019 3:30pm

sirmanga wrote: »

I don't get this argument. I've watched wrestling my entire life. I know how good it can be. That's why I keep watching.
Just like I haven't stopped watching Arsenal matches. God knows I'd be better off if I did. But I'm a fan.

Oomph that has to be torture these days..

sirmanga · 20-12-2019 4:10pm

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Oomph that has to be torture these days..

So why watch it then?

Lithium93_ · 20-12-2019 4:52pm

sirmanga wrote: »

So why watch it then?

Not an Arsenal fan though.

Jerichoholic · 20-12-2019 6:17pm

sirmanga wrote: »

I don't get this argument. I've watched wrestling my entire life. I know how good it can be. That's why I keep watching.
Just like I haven't stopped watching Arsenal matches. God knows I'd be better off if I did. But I'm a fan.

Try New Japan, if you don't like that, forget about it.

Furious-Red · 20-12-2019 7:44pm

sirmanga wrote: »

Didn't give one spoiler. Maybe I should, spare you from seeing it.

Anyway, back to AEW!.... Unfortunately

Imagine having to talk about AEW in an AEW thread

Jerichoholic · 20-12-2019 7:47pm

Furious-Red wrote: »

Imagine having to talk about AEW in an AEW thread

It's such a chore

The White Wolf · 20-12-2019 8:39pm

I don't think this Dark Order thing is all that bad tbh. They need a star to drive it home obviously but the concept is something I can dig. It's just the execution that needs refining.

It's still early days with AEW and patience is needed. Meltzer embarrassed himself by flipping on his pals and declaring this week as the turning point for AEW for the worse.

Cherry_Cola · 20-12-2019 9:43pm

At least Uno finally has started doing the black paint under the mask now, looked like a tit previously without it.

Itssoeasy · 20-12-2019 10:01pm

I've seen a clip from AEW this week and it's a guy in a mask "punching" a guy on the mat in the ring and dear god he makes Shane McMahon look like joe Frazier. If he wasn't wearing a mask before he'd have to now. The director didn't help either as he didn't switch cameras quick enough so there is a good amount of time of this guy hitting the mat and no where near the guy he's meant to be punching.

Monokne · 20-12-2019 10:12pm

The White Wolf wrote: »

I don't think this Dark Order thing is all that bad tbh. They need a star to drive it home obviously but the concept is something I can dig. It's just the execution that needs refining.

It's still early days with AEW and patience is needed. Meltzer embarrassed himself by flipping on his pals and declaring this week as the turning point for AEW for the worse.

By 'Meltzer', do you actually mean 95% of the internet?

The Dark Order is horrendous. 12 no name indy worker jobbers in masks beating up the top stars in your company with horrific, unconvincing offence. It's all time bad. Everyone involved comes off worse. Not only do the top stars suffer and feel less for having to sell for these complete & utter nobodies, but they also lose what little credibility they had left with the hardcore audience because they're now part of the same circus they were supposed to be providing an alternative to. If you're a wrestling fan and you're into hocus pocus, the Fiend does it, but better.

The whole heel group recruiting people is also neutered since the Nightmare Collective and the Inner Circle are doing the exact same storyline at the exact same time.

I can't overstate this. I'm delighted someone, anyone, actually gets enjoyment out of it but it is remarkably counter-productive to the success of that company.

The White Wolf · 20-12-2019 10:22pm

Monokne wrote: »

By 'Meltzer', do you actually mean 95% of the internet?

The Dark Order is horrendous. 12 no name indy worker jobbers in masks beating up the top stars in your company with horrific, unconvincing offence. It's all time bad. Everyone involved comes off worse. Not only do the top stars suffer and feel less for having to sell for these complete & utter nobodies, but they also lose what little credibility they had left with the hardcore audience because they're now part of the same circus they were supposed to be providing an alternative to. If you're a wrestling fan and you're into hocus pocus, the Fiend does it, but better.

The whole heel group recruiting people is also neutered since the Nightmare Collective and the Inner Circle are doing the exact same storyline at the exact same time.

I can't overstate this. I'm delighted someone, anyone, actually gets enjoyment out of it but it is remarkably counter-productive to the success of that company.

Well I can't argue with that. There should be just one of the Nightmare Realm/inner circle/dark order. It's possible they're trying to be just a tad bit too cute in the long term storytelling.

RollieFingers · 20-12-2019 10:50pm

The Dark Order stuff is so bad, absolutely awful, and as mentioned above the video of the creeper punching the mat is one of the cringiest wrestling vids I've seen. Less of this sh*te please AEW, more Omega, Luchas, Guevara etc.

AEW - All Elite Wrestling (*Spoilers for Latest Show*)

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AEW - All Elite Wrestling (Spoilers for Latest Show)