Off Topic Thread 4.0

Neil3030 · 25-05-2019 5:11pm

Venjur = Shane Horgan, confirmed.

Neil3030 · 25-05-2019 5:16pm

errlloyd wrote: »

I fully agree with Venjur's Devils Advocate position and I'd go a step further and say much of the language about it being "unsupervised" etc probably came from her legal team, not her.

I think for the Hotel a simple sign that says "swings are decorative only" and then a policy of them ignoring anyone who ignored the sign would have worked.

I still can't believe she's taken this case though. She probably does have a legal position, but like also cop on. Every single girl on Instagram in Dublin has been on those swings without injuring themselves.

So what then distinguishes a swing from, say, a staircase. It's reasonable to assume people consuming alcohol will use the stairs, and some may fall backwards. Do all staircases now need signs to warn people?

25-05-2019 5:16pm

Sloane Nutritious Ham wrote: »

Are you a solicitor or in some other way experience with the law or is this just you musing?

It's not musing, I don't practice law but it's a major part of how negligence is decided.

A court will look at an environment specifically catering for people who consume alcohol. It will look at a swing in the middle of that environment and ask

"is it likely a drunk person will sit here"
"is it likely a drunk person will sit here and have a fall"

I think both of those will be answered with yes and voila, the TD has a case.

Whether that transfers into an award of damages I don't know. I don't think the law takes personal responsibility into account nearly enough in some of the awards I've seen.

I think this will pass the first hurdle of establishing if the venue was negligent. I think a superior court will ultimately rule largely in favour of the venue but perhaps not costs.

For the record, the people I know who are most frustrated with stupid levels of awards are solicitors and they celebrate the most when they fail.

We've an army of ambulance chancers chasers who push these claims but most of the industry rejects it and would like to see better legislation.

25-05-2019 5:22pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

distinguishes a swing from, say, a staircase.

If the staircase was wobbly or could move then it might be held to a similar standard.

Look, it's most likely a very frivolous action. If someone say, sat on the swing and it flipped underneath them and they landed on their neck causing serious trauma then most people would say fair enough.

But the fact that both *could* happen suggests why these things need to be heard regardless.

She is fishing for a settlement, it's cost her her career and any claims to integrity and I'd say the chances of her making a penny now are slim. She probably won't withdraw the claim as if she is successful (in any even remote way) it will give her some cover politically.

25-05-2019 5:24pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not musing, I don't practice law but it's a major part of how negligence is decided.

A court will look at an environment specifically catering for people who consume alcohol. It will look at a swing in the middle of that environment and ask

"is it likely a drunk person will sit here"
"is it likely a drunk person will sit here and have a fall"

I think both of those will be answered with yes and voila, the TD has a case.

How many people have sat on that swing, without supervision might I add, and managed to not fall off. Thousands? Tens of thousands? If this is the first case that has been taken against them then to me it's decidedly unlikely that you'd fall off and injure yourself. You'd have to be doing something really daft like holding a drink in one hand and your bag in the other.

The fact she ran a 10k soon after the incident despite the court papers saying she couldn't run for 3 months shows she is also a liar. I don't believe a word she says about her injuries and hopefully the judge won't either.

irishbucsfan · 25-05-2019 5:25pm

Any solicitor I’ve heard give thoughts on it seem to think she has little chance. The fact they’ve seemingly probably lied about the extent of her injuries in court documents has surely seen the end of any chance she has of winning.

But Sloane Nutritious Ham could well be right, she might have no real way out at this stage.

troyzer · 25-05-2019 5:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Neil3030 wrote: »

distinguishes a swing from, say, a staircase.

If the staircase was wobbly or could move then it might be held to a similar standard.

Look, it's most likely a very frivolous action. If someone say, sat on the swing and it flipped underneath them and they landed on their neck causing serious trauma then most people would say fair enough.

But the fact that both *could* happen suggests why these things need to be heard regardless.

She is fishing for a settlement, it's cost her her career and any claims to integrity and I'd say the chances of her making a penny now are slim. She probably won't withdraw the claim as if she is successful (in any even remote way) it will give her some cover politically.

As I was reading your comment:

Swing case TD Maria Bailey drops compensation claim against hotel

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/swing-case-td-maria-bailey-drops-compensation-claim-against-hotel-38147952.html

25-05-2019 5:34pm

Sloane Nutritious Ham wrote: »

How many people have sat on that swing, without supervision might I add, and managed to not fall off. Thousands? Tens of thousands? If this is the first case that has been taken against them then to me it's decidedly unlikely that you'd fall off and injure yourself. You'd have to be doing something really daft like holding a drink in one hand and your bag in the other.

The fact she ran a 10k soon after the incident despite the court papers saying she couldn't run for 3 months shows she is also a liar. I don't believe a word she says about her injuries and hopefully the judge won't either.

I'd say someone falls off every second night. Just most have self respect enough not to sue for damages.

25-05-2019 5:38pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Any solicitor I’ve heard give thoughts on it seem to think she has little chance. The fact they’ve seemingly probably lied about the extent of her injuries in court documents has surely seen the end of any chance she has of winning.

But Sloane Nutritious Ham could well be right, she might have no real way out at this stage.

Running a 10k two weeks later looks absolutely terrible, but doesn't mean there wasn't an injury.

I really don't want to play devils advocate on this, I think it's a stupid action to take but it's worthwhile looking at it critically because that's what a court will do and occasionally these things are justified.

As Troyzer has posted, she is looking to distance herself now and get this out of the media. I'd say she is goosed in the next GE, I think the hotel is limited in what it can action on foot of reputational damage but wouldn't mind seeing them try!

25-05-2019 5:40pm

What makes it even more galling is her 95k salary and god knows what in pension, expenses etc.

Her father's Wikipedia page makes fascinating reading.

irishbucsfan · 25-05-2019 5:42pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Running a 10k two weeks later looks absolutely terrible, but doesn't mean there wasn't an injury.

I really don't want to play devils advocate on this, I think it's a stupid action to take but it's worthwhile looking at it critically because that's what a court will do and occasionally these things are justified.

As Troyzer has posted, she is looking to distance herself now and get this out of the media. I'd say she is goosed in the next GE, I think the hotel is limited in what it can action on foot of reputational damage but wouldn't mind seeing them try!

She said she couldn’t run for 3 months

thomond2006 · 25-05-2019 5:44pm

Is this not fraud? Saying you can't run for three months in a civil case which turns out to be a malicious lie?

FG surely have to consider kicking her out of the party.
(I know! No politics!)

25-05-2019 5:47pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

She said she couldn’t run for 3 months

Oh lol, really?

That's quite likely insurance fraud in that case, if she wasn't going to be deselected by FG she definitely will be now.

Quite likely staring down the barrel of a visit from the Gardai also.

Greed and dishonesty are powerful drugs to the wrong person.

Squidgy Black · 25-05-2019 5:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh lol, really?

That's quite likely insurance fraud in that case, if she wasn't going to be deselected by FG she definitely will be now.

Quite likely staring down the barrel of a visit from the Gardai also.

Greed and dishonesty are powerful drugs to the wrong person.

The hotel offered to pay her medical bills also and she turned it down.

Court papers describe her as a "keen runner prior to the accident but could not run at all for three months post-accident and has had to reduce her activities significantly since".

Was also stated that she could not sit or stand for prolonged periods without experiencing severe pain, but she went to Longitude 8 days after the accident.

troyzer · 25-05-2019 5:55pm

I don't know if anyone read my comment but she's dropped the case. I'd say it's over.

Squidgy Black · 25-05-2019 5:57pm

troyzer wrote: »

I don't know if anyone read my comment but she's dropped the case. I'd say it's over.

I wouldn't say "it's over".

It'll certainly be a discussion point for the next while and possibly a counter-suit from the hotel as there would have been legal costs involved up until this point on their end, plus they could claim for negative publicity.

And that's not even taking into account any political action that should (but likely won't) happen from the party.

Bridge93 · 25-05-2019 5:58pm

Leaving the claim and the rights and wrongs aside for a second. How stupid do you have to be to lie and then have posts and pictures on your Facebook page that clearly show you to be lying.

Fraud 101 would tell you to clear all evidence

Zzippy · 25-05-2019 9:36pm

Perhaps I'm just a cynic but the timing of this story about a fraudulent/frivolous claim in the week when the insurance industry are being investigated for running a cartel is a tad suspicious.

CatFromHue · 25-05-2019 9:51pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Is this not fraud? Saying you can't run for three months in a civil case which turns out to be a malicious lie?

FG surely have to consider kicking her out of the party.
(I know! No politics!)

seemingly not as this type of thing happens very regularly

molloyjh · 25-05-2019 11:34pm

Zzippy wrote: »

Perhaps I'm just a cynic but the timing of this story about a fraudulent/frivolous claim in the week when the insurance industry are being investigated for running a cartel is a tad suspicious.

Why would someone ruin their career and their name in the process though?

Zzippy · 25-05-2019 11:49pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Why would someone ruin their career and their name in the process though?

I was referring to the insurance company leaking info about the case. It would suit their narrative of unfounded claims being responsible for high premiums and distract attention from the cartel investigation.

troyzer · 25-05-2019 11:51pm

Zzippy wrote: »

molloyjh wrote: »

Why would someone ruin their career and their name in the process though?

I was referring to the insurance company leaking info about the case. It would suit their narrative of unfounded claims being responsible for high premiums and distract attention from the cartel investigation.

How was this story found in the first place do we know?

The insurance company narrative is irrelevant. They're going to be fighting a legal battle, not a PR one

26-05-2019 8:05am

Zzippy wrote: »

I was referring to the insurance company leaking info about the case. It would suit their narrative of unfounded claims being responsible for high premiums and distract attention from the cartel investigation.

If it made it to court then the information in court documents is public right?

sydthebeat · 26-05-2019 9:06am

Zzippy wrote: »

Perhaps I'm just a cynic but the timing of this story about a fraudulent/frivolous claim in the week when the insurance industry are being investigated for running a cartel is a tad suspicious.

For the life of me I still can't understand why we don't have a euro union wide selection when it comes to insurance.

I think we would see a lot more vigorously challenged cases if we had.

Irish centric insurance companies will ALWAYS pay up out of court as a first response

troyzer · 26-05-2019 9:54am

sydthebeat wrote: »

Zzippy wrote: »

Perhaps I'm just a cynic but the timing of this story about a fraudulent/frivolous claim in the week when the insurance industry are being investigated for running a cartel is a tad suspicious.

For the life of me I still can't understand why we don't have a euro union wide selection when it comes to insurance.

I think we would see a lot more vigorously challenged cases if we had.

Irish centric insurance companies will ALWAYS pay up out of court as a first response

We do, technically. Any European company is allowed to offer insurance in Ireland. They're just unable to without actuarial models which is closely guarded by the incumbents.

The single market is still aspirational at the moment and isn't well integrated for services yet. I expect the next parliament to do a lot of good work here, in between arguing with ultra nationalists.

swiwi_ · 26-05-2019 1:31pm

Back pain and headache.

Red flags for insurance companies because can’t be objectively disproven.

TD claimed both

I think this sort of thing is a little bit ingrained in the Irish mentality: « If you can rip off a higher authority than fair play to you »

There should be some sort of European law on it with fines for frivolous or fraudulent claims.

troyzer · 26-05-2019 1:42pm

swiwi_ wrote: »

Back pain and headache.

Red flags for insurance companies because can’t be objectively disproven.

TD claimed both

I think this sort of thing is a little bit ingrained in the Irish mentality: « If you can rip off a higher authority than fair play to you »

There should be some sort of European law on it with fines for frivolous or fraudulent claims.

I don't think it's part of the Irish mentality. I think a few quirks in the legal system have gradually got us to the point that most people can chase a ridiculous payout risk free. That's not mentality, it's just common sense.

I'm sure there's game theory to bear it out. The systems needs radical change and apparently it might need a referendum.

Zzippy · 26-05-2019 2:02pm

Sloane Nutritious Ham wrote: »

If it made it to court then the information in court documents is public right?

I saw some tweets from a barrister suggesting her medical info has been leaked ahead of the court documents actually becoming public, which would be illegal and a breach of GDPR and her privacy. As I say, suspicious timing and no one is talking about the investigation into a cartel.

irishbucsfan · 26-05-2019 2:56pm

swiwi_ wrote: »

Back pain and headache.

Red flags for insurance companies because can’t be objectively disproven.

TD claimed both

I think this sort of thing is a little bit ingrained in the Irish mentality: « If you can rip off a higher authority than fair play to you »

There should be some sort of European law on it with fines for frivolous or fraudulent claims.

Clearly the reaction to this shows it’s anything but the “Irish mentality”

awec · 27-05-2019 11:45am

Anyone know anything about house alarms?

We've been quoted for ~800 to install HKC stuff throughout the house, all windows and doors etc, with 150 a year plus VAT for the monitoring.

But phone watch quote like 300 quid for full install, but monitoring is like twice as much.

The prices seem really different, not sure if I'm missing something?

thomond2006 · 27-05-2019 11:51am

https://soundcloud.com/rte-radio-1/maria-bailey-1?fbclid=IwAR2ifjqtkIClDj63-qWtkc2mI8fObB_ryPBFh7GuR_RDsBZitnw6gagE_b8

Car. Crash.

troyzer · 27-05-2019 11:52am

thomond2006 wrote: »

https://soundcloud.com/rte-radio-1/maria-bailey-1?fbclid=IwAR2ifjqtkIClDj63-qWtkc2mI8fObB_ryPBFh7GuR_RDsBZitnw6gagE_b8

Car. Crash.

That's at least two government TDs gone. Herself and Fitzgerald. We could be looking at a general now.

Bazzo · 27-05-2019 12:36pm

Any time anyone asks me a question I don't want to answer from now on I'm just going to keep repeating their name and shouting "THAT IS FOR A JUDGE TO ADJUDICATE ON"

thomond2006 · 27-05-2019 12:38pm

Bazzo wrote: »

Any time anyone asks me a question I don't want to answer from now on I'm just going to keep repeating their name and shouting "THAT IS FOR A JUDGE TO ADJUDICATE ON"

This needs to become a meme. The 2019 version of "The money was only resting in my account".

27-05-2019 12:49pm

Bazzo wrote: »

Any time anyone asks me a question I don't want to answer from now on I'm just going to keep repeating their name and shouting "THAT IS FOR A JUDGE TO ADJUDICATE ON"

SEAN

SEAN

SEAN

Stheno · 27-05-2019 1:14pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

https://soundcloud.com/rte-radio-1/maria-bailey-1?fbclid=IwAR2ifjqtkIClDj63-qWtkc2mI8fObB_ryPBFh7GuR_RDsBZitnw6gagE_b8

Car. Crash.

Is that the swinger interview?

Squidgy Black · 27-05-2019 1:23pm

"Thats not a level playing pitch, as someone who grew up on the sideline of a GAA pitch, I play fair, I don't play offside"

Wrong sport.

irishbucsfan · 27-05-2019 1:24pm

As someone who grew up on the side of a baseball diamond I’d say that interview was a slam dunk

Squidgy Black · 27-05-2019 1:29pm

"how can you sit on a swing with bottles in your hand and not expect to fall?"

"SEAN, I WAS INJURED"

aloooof · 27-05-2019 1:37pm

She keeps asking for a level playing field. Is she afraid she might fall over again?

Mr Tickle · 27-05-2019 1:38pm

swiwi_ · 27-05-2019 7:39pm

Hmmmm. The hotel offered to pay...but she still wanted to go to court...to recover roughly 7 grand...despite having private medical insurance.

Then trying to be the victim...media out to get her...running the marathon was part of her recovery plan...bla bla bla.

Insufferable.

27-05-2019 10:34pm

I just can't believe this is real life.

You would imagine anywhere else he'd have been removed by now on grounds of incapacity. He's fully lost it.

I don't think this counts as a politics post, I mean - it's an old man shouting at a cloud.

thomond2006 · 28-05-2019 12:39am

Miriam Lord, Irish Times wrote:

Watching them on the news leaving RTÉ, the words of Fr Ted after the disastrous visit of three bishops to Craggy Island came to mind: “Went pretty well, I thought.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/miriam-lord-fall-gal-maria-bailey-sees-dark-forces-at-play-1.3906328?mode=amp

:pac:

swiwi_ · 28-05-2019 5:15am

For those who were wondering

1) Sit on swing
2) Swing

Even a child can manage it

swiwi_ · 28-05-2019 5:49am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Clearly the reaction to this shows it’s anything but the “Irish mentality”

Come back to me when Lowry and Healy-Rae have been voted out by an indignant electorate.

To be fair, it’s clear that the vast majority consider her a total chancer, it’s turned into a complete comedy show.

irishbucsfan · 28-05-2019 7:25am

swiwi_ wrote: »

Come back to me when Lowry and Healy-Rae have been voted out by an indignant electorate.

To be fair, it’s clear that the vast majority consider her a total chancer, it’s turned into a complete comedy show.

Can you please explain what the Irish mentality is that links a Healy-Rae and this lady? Beyond just some weird opportunity to make some broad racist criticism of Irish people?

troyzer · 28-05-2019 7:39am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

swiwi_ wrote: »

Come back to me when Lowry and Healy-Rae have been voted out by an indignant electorate.

To be fair, it’s clear that the vast majority consider her a total chancer, it’s turned into a complete comedy show.

Can you please explain what the Irish mentality is that links a Healy-Rae and this lady? Beyond just some weird opportunity to make some broad racist criticism of Irish people?

Ah settle down, he's not being racist. I think we should be honest with ourselves that our electoral system and parochial nature, in the country anyway, leads to cute hoorism and chancers getting elected.

Squidgy Black · 28-05-2019 7:45am

swiwi_ wrote: »

Come back to me when Lowry and Healy-Rae have been voted out by an indignant electorate.

To be fair, it’s clear that the vast majority consider her a total chancer, it’s turned into a complete comedy show.

The Healy-Raes won't be voted out, because the constituency they run in is far from the normal compared to other candidates. They're running in rural south west Ireland, and they try to target farmers and the older electorate in their constituency as looking like men of the people who will stand up for the ways of rural farmers, like with their drink driving proposals etc.

troyzer · 28-05-2019 7:49am

Squidgy Black wrote: »

swiwi_ wrote: »

Come back to me when Lowry and Healy-Rae have been voted out by an indignant electorate.

To be fair, it’s clear that the vast majority consider her a total chancer, it’s turned into a complete comedy show.

The Healy-Raes won't be voted out, because the constituency they run in is far from the normal compared to other candidates. They're running in rural south west Ireland, and they try to target farmers and the older electorate in their constituency as looking like men of the people who will stand up for the ways of rural farmers, like with their drink driving proposals etc.

Whilst raking in a fortune on the state contracts for their construction companies.

Off Topic Thread 4.0

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