Introducing the Current Affairs/IMHO forum

Beasty · 17-01-2021 11:59am

As I said - PM me with any new info and we will consider re-opening

Sir Oxman · 17-01-2021 12:08pm

Beasty wrote: »

I'm just seeing from the comments here that the Nkencho thread has been closed

The incident occurred 18 days ago. The thread has nearly 8,000 posts. Is there really much more that can be said about the incident?

I appreciate there will be a follow up by relevant authorities, which can be addressed at the relevant time. However the thread is a magnet for anyone wanting to raise any immigration or indeed race issue. It had run its course on the thread topic.

If anyone has any new information or has an relevant aspect they believe has not been covered please drop me a PM and we can look at re-opening it to discuss the relevant issue

There are very valid (sub)topics that are a result directly from and relating to the incident and these are ongoing and very important IMO.

I have to say the closure smells or can legitimately be seen as acquiescence to an agenda whereas the very best effort should be used to ensure bad faith posts and posters are dealt with and yes, I understand the hard work on that can be onerous but simply crumpling to vocal activist posters no matter their status here, is wrong for the board IMO.

Omackeral · 17-01-2021 1:28pm

nullzero wrote: »

I suppose it shows the power of complaint, those who couldn't argue successfully that the killing was racially motivated went down the route of complaint.

Aka cancel culture

nullzero · 17-01-2021 1:33pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Looking last night, it was regular posters in that thread making incredibly racist remarks about Nigerians. It didn't even relate to the topic. I'm guessing going off topic on rants is a regular feature since it happened a few days back as well when I checked it.

Also the people making the incredibly racist jabs are more often than not regulars on the site.

Also this will predictably result in posters blaming me and other posters for the closure of the thread. The reality is it's down to the conduct of those who wanted to go off on racist tangents...

There were several posts that could be described as anti immigration, or more precisely against people who avail of asylum here and accuse this country of being institutionally racist heading back to where they came from.

Racism would suggest comments made about skin colour and ethnicity which wasn't the case.

I think your comments are indicative of the rush to cry foul over anything that isn't complimentary to certain members of society.

I think you would be hard pushed to find many posters on that thread that were actually overtly racist, but there were a lot of posters who were fed up with the double standards in relation to immigrants in this country who accuse us of being racist nation when that demonstrably isn't true.

Beasty · 17-01-2021 1:41pm

Sir Oxman wrote: »

There are very valid (sub)topics that are a result directly from and relating to the incident and these are ongoing and very important IMO.

Please PM me with details of what you would like to discuss that has not already been covered

KyussB · 17-01-2021 3:06pm

I mean, is a news story that is still being actively written about in newspapers, with new details emerging, not still a 'Current Affair'?

We've learned that citing facts posted by newspapers does not shield people from mod action, when mod disagreement with those facts is the basis for the sanction (and that is not reversed even after emerging news stories continually back up the cited facts, in greater and greater detail...) - now the whole news story, that is still being published about with new updates, is apparently 'old news' now and has already been completely/entirely covered...

Granted, I'm certain the moderation of the thread has been and is very difficult - but can some effort please be made to undo the screwups in moderation, and not to make more? It comes across as trying to suppress the news story and facts involved - even though I'm certain it is more likely just a difficult to moderate discussion.

Overheal · 17-01-2021 3:16pm

KyussB wrote: »

I mean, is a news story that is still being actively written about in newspapers, with new details emerging, not still a 'Current Affair'?

We've learned that citing facts posted by newspapers does not shield people from mod action, when mod disagreement with those facts is the basis for the sanction (and that is not reversed even after emerging news stories continually back up the cited facts, in greater and greater detail...) - now the whole news story, that is still being published about with new updates, is apparently 'old news' now and has already been completely/entirely covered...

Granted, I'm certain the moderation of the thread has been and is very difficult - but can some effort please be made to undo the screwups in moderation, and not to make more? It comes across as trying to suppress the news story and facts involved - even though I'm certain it is more likely just a difficult to moderate discussion.

3 days old news link. Surely the content has been ravenously covered by the nature of the thread; loads of people just bickering around one or two of these breadcrumbs that crop up every few days and with dwindling frequency?

Also in Ireland isn't there in fact a real danger that by not exercising some restraint about discussion of ongoing cases that you begin to seriously risk the possibility of mistrial?

KyussB · 17-01-2021 3:40pm

If there were a 3 day staleness rule for news stories (including the weekend, it seems...), the entire Current Affairs forum would be locked.

I've looked back through the thread up to the date of that link, and there are still falsehoods being routinely repeated, which are in contradiction with facts cited in that link - I can't go into them, though. The contents of the story itself is extremely notable and important.

It's a bit weird that you're inventing concerns about a non-existant trial, as an ex-post-facto justification for the locking.

nullzero · 17-01-2021 3:42pm

Overheal wrote: »

3 days old news link. Surely the content has been ravenously covered by the nature of the thread; loads of people just bickering around one or two of these breadcrumbs that crop up every few days and with dwindling frequency?

Also in Ireland isn't there in fact a real danger that by not exercising some restraint about discussion of ongoing cases that you begin to seriously risk the possibility of mistrial?

How would the possibility of a mistrial be relevant to the George Nkencho case?

Generally that type of thing refers to situations where living people are on trial for something like say murder.

Sir Oxman · 17-01-2021 3:43pm

Beasty wrote: »

Please PM me with details of what you would like to discuss that has not already been covered

Done.

Overheal · 17-01-2021 4:17pm

nullzero wrote: »

How would the possibility of a mistrial be relevant to the George Nkencho case?

Generally that type of thing refers to situations where living people are on trial for something like say murder.

No possibility of trial for the shooter?

nullzero · 17-01-2021 4:26pm

Overheal wrote: »

No possibility of trial for the shooter?

Not at this juncture.

I believe there will be an inquest into the events as is standard GSOC procedure. If there were issues arising from that inquest in relation to the Garda who shot him then there could be potential for a trial.

As things stand the correct procedures appear to have been followed and although the outcome was tragic George Nkencho would appear to have given AGS no options beyond what transpired.

The Mark Hennessy case whilst different in many ways to that of George Nkencho also ended with him motioning to stab armed Gardai and he was also shot dead as a result, no criminal charges were brought against that Garda.

I would ask you to share your thoughts on this case but this is not the correct forum (or thread to be precise) and the one dealing with it is now closed.

Beasty · 17-01-2021 4:31pm

KyussB wrote: »

If there were a 3 day staleness rule for news stories (including the weekend, it seems...), the entire Current Affairs forum would be locked.

I've looked back through the thread up to the date of that link, and there are still falsehoods being routinely repeated, which are in contradiction with facts cited in that link - I can't go into them, though. The contents of the story itself is extremely notable and important.

It's a bit weird that you're inventing concerns about a non-existant trial, as an ex-post-facto justification for the locking.

Please provide me via PM details of any aspects of this incident that has not already been discussed in the thread

17-01-2021 5:46pm

Not to load on with the criticism, but

i. Some people went too far (sanction them)

and

ii Why shouldnt we lock it (kinda reverse approach than what youd seek tbh)

dont seem to be sufficient justification here.

if

iii Topic no longer current enough

were applied that strictly then as noted above thered be threads slamming shut all over the place and if

iv the same few posters kept moaning enough that eventually the balance of the decision moved towards just closing it

is an input, id suggest mod action against those few posters (you will, i suggest, find most of them in here every few posts using this thread to lobby for that thread being closed, fairly shamelessly against mod instruction as far as can be seen)

17-01-2021 5:53pm

Your proposal is to action posters for offering feedback fore legit concerns about the way certain threads go? Right so... Not lobbying for it to be closed by the way, I do think certain posters get far too much leeway in terms of how they conduct themselves.

17-01-2021 6:41pm

Im noting that a handful of posters have dominated this forum feedback thread for several dozen pages lobbying about one specific thread and im pretty sure ive seen manys the mod note in this thread not to do that.

I dont think its backseat modding to connect an insistent minority group effort to get a thread shut by behaving like this may have been a factor in mods just slightly lean more towards "f*** it, lets close that thread altogether" but hey its merely musing for me to do so tbf

Wasnt using that thread, no dog in the specific fight but i dont think that carry on is what this thread is for and i don't think locking threads because of individual posters crossing lines is great

Thats all

This is it · 17-01-2021 6:49pm

Beasty wrote: »

Please provide me via PM details of any aspects of this incident that has not already been discussed in the thread

This is ridiculous. Opinion Beasty. The whole thread and almost every thread on the whole of boards is generally someone's opinion. I've said very little in that thread so if I now want to add further opinion, is that cause enough to open it back up? When there's nothing left to say the thread will die, until then it should be left open with those causing issues banned from taking part.

Kraftwerk · 17-01-2021 6:50pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Your proposal is to action posters for offering feedback fore legit concerns about the way certain threads go? Right so... Not lobbying for it to be closed by the way, I do think certain posters get far too much leeway in terms of how they conduct themselves.

It's pretty clear that those posters are abusing feedback and most likely the report function to shut down a thread. Some of them are banned from the thread and others did nothing but troll it with hit and run posts to stir up arguments to whinge about in feedback.

The end result is those posters incessant whinging getting to mods who close the thread and are now having to invent reasons (which don't seem to apply to any other thread) to justify its closure.

And I must have seen a half a dozen cards when people react to the resident troll who seems to be allowed do what he likes on boards while getting in everyone's ear whinging.

Perhaps it's not the thread that's the problem but the fact far too much leeway is given to certain posters when entertaining their delicate sensibilities.

Chips Lovell · 17-01-2021 6:53pm

I imagine its fairly straightforward. If a topic has dropped out of the news and the thread isn't causing too many problems, then it's no problem letting it run. But if there's nothing new to say about it and people are consistently acting the maggot, it makes sense to lock it up.

Does seem to be one of those topics, like the Maria Bailey swing thing, that attracted a bizarre level of interest relative to the public attention it received.

Sir Oxman · 17-01-2021 6:59pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Im noting that a handful of posters have dominated this forum feedback thread for several dozen pages lobbying about one specific thread and im pretty sure ive seen manys the mod note in this thread not to do that.

I dont think its backseat modding to connect an insistent minority group effort to get a thread shut by behaving like this may have been a factor in mods just slightly lean more towards "f*** it, lets close that thread altogether" but hey its merely musing for me to do so tbf

Wasnt using that thread, no dog in the specific fight but i dont think that carry on is what this thread is for and i don't think locking threads because of individual posters crossing lines is great

Thats all

Same happened to the 'JK Rowling is a TERF thread'
Same modus operandi, it was like the very idea that the whole gamut of that current affair could never be aired was the aim of what I term, activist posters.
There was some sh1t posting which was dealt with, the vast majority of posts were involved in the actual discussion.

I'm not at all paranoid :pac:, but it was a fact that posters that really did not want a discussion to be had whatsoever were allowed to post completely unsubstantiated accusations at other posters and discussion points via dubious 'news'papers left, right and centre without deletion or warnings/bans
And the campaign carried on in tandem on Feedback.

It was eventually closed but a mod opened up a newly titled thread.
Maybe a new thread title is all that's required?

This is it · 17-01-2021 7:08pm

Chips Lovell wrote: »

I imagine its fairly straightforward. If a topic has dropped out of the news and the thread isn't causing too many problems, then it's no problem letting it run. But if there's nothing new to say about and people are consistently acting the maggot, it makes sense to lock it up.

Does seem to be one of those topics, like the Maria Bailey swing thing, that attracted a bizarre level of interest relative to the public attention it received.

If someone is "acting the maggot" get rid of them from the thread. It's as simple as that.

Chips Lovell · 17-01-2021 7:12pm

This is it wrote: »

If someone is "acting the maggot" get rid of them from the thread. It's as simple as that.

There may be some argument for that if mods had an infinite amount of time available to them. How much time do you think they should spend getting rid of people from a thread on a topic that's run its course before they eventually call a halt to it?

This is it · 17-01-2021 7:23pm

Chips Lovell wrote: »

There may be some argument for that if mods had an infinite amount of time available to them. How much time do you think they should spend getting rid of people from a thread on a topic that's run its course before they eventually call a halt to it?

How long is a piece of string?

There's no set time on how long a mod should spend on a thread. Who decides if a thread has run its course? A thread has run its course, in my opinion, when it falls away naturally. And if mods threadbanned or banned users, as they said they would in the second to last warning, then that could be let happen.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the issues mods face, I was around for some highly contentious threads, but locking a thread because a few are causing trouble is the easy way out. It has long been an issue.

Snake Plisken · 17-01-2021 7:40pm

I imagine if current criteria for closing threads is to be applied the Gemma O'D thread for example can be closed I mean she's banned off all platforms no real interest there or updates so should be closed by the CA mods?
Also the idiots flaunting the current Covid lockdowns to have vigils and protests outside the Blanch Gardai station for George Nkencho few days back are keeping the story in the public eye/social media trends so thread should be left open and ban and card posters who ignore the warnings.
That's my feedback!

Effects · 17-01-2021 9:25pm

nullzero wrote: »

Nkencho thread closing is OTT.

Sir Oxman wrote: »

Closure of the 'George Nkencho' thread is over the top and should be re-opened.

What's left to be discussed? Nothing, so it just moved on to racist Nigerian bashing despite repeated mod requests to stop.

Quantum Erasure · 17-01-2021 9:27pm

Sir Oxman wrote: »

...

It was eventually closed but a mod opened up a newly titled thread.
Maybe a new thread title is all that's required?

We have a 'multiculturalism' thread, and a BLM thread, which itself was opened after another couple threads were closed, i think...

Quantum Erasure · 17-01-2021 9:30pm

Effects wrote: »

What's left to be discussed?.

Did he fire six shots or only five?

This is it · 17-01-2021 9:42pm

Effects wrote: »

What's left to be discussed? Nothing, so it just moved on to racist Nigerian bashing despite repeated mod requests to stop.

Yeah, you don't request racist Nigerian bashing to stop, and you definitely don't do it more than once. Issue a warning, if you don't follow it then you should expect mod action.

What's left to be discussed? Hypothetically, I want to add my opinion now. I can't. I want to add to the discussion, I can't. Why? Because it's now deemed to not be a current affairs, or there's nothing more to discuss. As I said to Beasty earlier, the site runs on opinion, people can't give their opinion that subject now.

Ban the troublemakers and let those that want to discuss the intricacies of the topic do so if they so wish. That goes for threads in general, I couldn't really care less about the thread this issue was raised against.

Effects · 17-01-2021 9:43pm

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

Did he fire six shots or only five?

That's been answered. 6 shots. It was answered before the post mortem, and then confirmed afterwards.

Beasty · 17-01-2021 9:53pm

Approximately 1 in every 11 posts made in the thread were deleted

Numerous mod warnings were issued, along with threadbans, cards and forum bans. A final in-thread warning was issued yesterday.

A mod was dealing with reports and closing the thread at 2 o'clock this morning.

The shooting was discussed extensively. It will be investigated by appropriate authorities. It is not for us to pre-judge any of that. Once relevant investigations produce reports I am sure the topic will be discussed again.

The mods responsible for this forum are mainly also dealing with the Coronavirus Forum, and some with AH as well.

And before anyone cries "more mods" - we are looking at that, but more people modding results in more inconsistency - one of the issues that posters are complaining about in this thread

And no-one has indicated anything new relating to the incident that has not already been discussed in the thread. Plenty want to take it off at a tangent. Some want to be judge and jury against the Gardai. Some want to discuss topics that can be and indeed have been discussed in other thread in the forum. Some want to go over the same ground again.

I am seeing absolutely nothing though that warrants the re-opening of that thread

Gatling · 17-01-2021 10:09pm

Nazis win again .

It's amazing a small chort of posters are repeatedly allowed to get away with getting threads locked and shout down anyone who doesn't agree with their
ideological woke ideals,

17-01-2021 10:13pm

Gatling wrote: »

Nazis win again .

It's amazing a small chort of posters are repeatedly allowed to get away with getting threads locked and shout down anyone who doesn't agree with their
ideological woke ideals,

In spite of your belief, I suspect it was the poster's behaviour in the thread that were responsible for it getting locked rather than people who have offered feedback. Imagine Beasty and the likes will say as much.

Omackeral · 17-01-2021 10:16pm

Don’t know why the mod team don’t just say “it’s under investigation so from a legal point we’d prefer not to have chat on the matter” rather than “PM me if you think your reason is good enough.”. The second statement there actually reads quite farcically. Sets a bad precedent. Poor leadership, in my humble opinion of course.

Omackeral · 17-01-2021 10:18pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I suspect it was the posters behaviour in the thread that were responsible for it getting locked.

Sounds like the old class punishment from a teacher who can’t or doesn’t want to handle the troublemakers in the room so everyone gets 100 lines.

This is it · 17-01-2021 10:19pm

Omackeral wrote: »

Don’t know why the mod team don’t just say “it’s under investigation so from a legal point we’d prefer not to have chat on the matter” rather than “PM me if you think your reason is good enough.”. The second statement there actually reads quite farcically. Sets a bad precedent. Poor leadership, in my humble opinion of course.

I'd prefer honesty, whatever they may be. No point saying it's one thing if it's actually something else. The real reason might be annoying, but it's certainly less annoying than mods lying to you.

nullzero · 17-01-2021 10:23pm

Effects wrote: »

What's left to be discussed? Nothing, so it just moved on to racist Nigerian bashing despite repeated mod requests to stop.

I'm pretty sure you'd still be posting there if it were open and you hadn't been thread banned.

Gatling · 17-01-2021 10:27pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In spite of your belief,

No not buying it for one second , it's was a small cohort of posters who repeatedly spammed the report button to make sure the thread got closed when it was realised it had nothing to do with racism (no surprise )

nullzero · 17-01-2021 10:28pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In spite of your belief, I suspect it was the poster's behaviour in the thread that were responsible for it getting locked rather than people who have offered feedback. Imagine Beasty and the likes will say as much.

The funny thing is that countless posters attempted to go on crusades to prove that George Nkencho was shot because of his skin colour and not one of them provided a shred of evidence to support that claim.

The next step was to get the thread closed by making as much noise as possible.

The likes of the Gemma O'Doherty thread are essentially playgrounds for people to post abusive nonsense about a person who is clearly not shuffling a full deck, but they aren't part of a group of people who we should be careful about offending so it's fair game.

The same can be said about the multiple threads about Trump, essentially just go to places to go and shoot fish in a barrel, but the countless tiresome posts about what an imbecile Trump is are left up for all to read even though they offer little in terms of discussion.

Omackeral · 17-01-2021 10:28pm

This is it wrote: »

I'd prefer honesty, whatever they may be. No point saying it's one thing if it's actually something else. The real reason might be annoying, but it's certainly less annoying than mods lying to you.

Well the “PM me and I’ll consider it” one isn’t fantastic. It’s like laying down a gauntlet or challenge. Especially when the admin has thanked posts saying it should be left shut by someone who has openly called for its closure for a long time now. There’s plenty of decent posters on there.

Like if people want to discuss something as rare as a Garda killing, why not let them. Politicians and leaders are having their say. It’s a big enough story. Other factors at plan like mass gatherings in a Covid world, community tensions, integrity of reporting etc. Wonder what the right reason is to reopen? Wonder what the magic words are. I’ve personally had my fill of it by now and have left the thread voluntarily but I wouldn’t try to stop others talking about it. So what if some points are being revised or discussed again, once it’s inside the parameters of the charter, it’s all good. The thread has naturally lost steam so shouldn’t be as hard to monitor as it was say two weeks ago.

Beasty · 17-01-2021 10:42pm

Omackeral wrote: »

Don’t know why the mod team don’t just say “it’s under investigation so from a legal point we’d prefer not to have chat on the matter”

That would be factually incorrect.

And I have been honest. I do not believe there is anything more that can be discussed at this time. If something new crops up we will reconsider. Equally we may well not see anything new until the authorities undertake their investigations

Beasty · 17-01-2021 10:45pm

Omackeral wrote: »

Well the “PM me and I’ll consider it” one isn’t fantastic. It’s like laying down a gauntlet or challenge.

I don't want this thread to turn into a discussion of what can or cannot result in a re-opening. I offered posters the opportunity to PM me rather than taking this thread away from it's primary purpose.

And yes it is without doubt throwing out a challenge. You convince me there is something new and we will give consideration. If no-one does we will not.

This is it · 17-01-2021 10:54pm

Omackeral wrote: »

Well the “PM me and I’ll consider it” one isn’t fantastic. It’s like laying down a gauntlet or challenge. Especially when the admin has thanked posts saying it should be left shut by someone who has openly called for its closure for a long time now. There’s plenty of decent posters on there.

Like if people want to discuss something as rare as a Garda killing, why not let them. Politicians and leaders are having their say. It’s a big enough story. Other factors at plan like mass gatherings in a Covid world, community tensions, integrity of reporting etc. Wonder what the right reason is to reopen? Wonder what the magic words are. I’ve personally had my fill of it by now and have left the thread voluntarily but I wouldn’t try to stop others talking about it. So what if some points are being revised or discussed again, once it’s inside the parameters of the charter, it’s all good. The thread has naturally lost steam so shouldn’t be as hard to monitor as it was say two weeks ago.

I completely agree on all of those points, my post was regarding the suggestion that the mod should close the thread citing "legal issues".

Why would we want mods to lie. We don't. The truth, as annoying as it is, is the truth and leaves it open to be raised here for discussion. Even if that seems futile.

Omackeral · 17-01-2021 11:12pm

Beasty wrote: »

And yes it is without doubt throwing out a challenge. You convince me there is something new and we will give consideration. If no-one does we will not.

That reads absolutely awfully.

Sweetemotion · 17-01-2021 11:20pm

Antifa thread was closed, because the mods had thought it had run it's course and generated a colossal amount of reported posts.

Closed during the height of the summer protests, so it wasn't closed because there wasn't nothing new talk about.

Same few cohort of posters got that closed by pressing the report button.

17-01-2021 11:24pm

Omackeral wrote: »

That reads absolutely awfully.

A family friend of mine was murdered in dublin years ago,and that thread filled horrible things about him ,was last time i checked still open

Its a pure cop out closing this thread,could easy let it open and close in heavy on off-topic discussion

17-01-2021 11:28pm

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Antifa thread was closed, because the mods had thought it had run it's course and generated a colossal amount of reported posts.

Closed during the height of the summer protests, so it wasn't closed because there wasn't nothing new talk about.

Same few cohort of posters got that closed by pressing the report button.

Thing is you're making a claim that you have no proof of... Rather than considering the possibility that people were blatantly breaking rules etc and making threads unmanageable for mods.

Sweetemotion · 17-01-2021 11:34pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Thing is you're making a claim that you have no proof of... Rather than considering the possibility that people were blatantly breaking rules etc and making threads unmanageable for mods.

No proof?

Morning all. The CA/IMHO mods have decided that this thread has run it's course.
A handful of posters are dominating this thread and generating a colossal amount of reported posts.

Our options were some thread bans, or close the thread. Closing the thread was unanimous.

17-01-2021 11:43pm

Sweetemotion wrote: »

No proof?

Morning all. The CA/IMHO mods have decided that this thread has run it's course.
A handful of posters are dominating this thread and generating a colossal amount of reported posts.

Our options were some thread bans, or close the thread. Closing the thread was unanimous.

And final line makes it pretty clear that those dominating were breaking the rules.... So those breaking the rules were generating the work.

Sweetemotion · 17-01-2021 11:46pm

Deleted User wrote: »

And final line makes it pretty clear that those dominating were breaking the rules.... So those breaking the rules were generating the work.

No it doesn't.

Just because you bashed the report button doesn't mean any rules were broken.

17-01-2021 11:56pm

Sweetemotion wrote: »

No it doesn't.

Just because you bashed the report button doesn't mean any rules were broken.

The options were thread bans or closing the thread... That pretty clearly indicates rules were broken en masse. You also overestimate how much time me or other users spend reporting posts. I think I reported one yesterday and not much more over the course of a week. Tend to report particularly dodgy posts. That's not remotely abuse of reporting system and posts getting actioned are because rules have been broken.

Introducing the Current Affairs/IMHO forum

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