Introducing the Current Affairs/IMHO forum

osarusan · 17-01-2021 10:38am

osarusan wrote: »

I think exactly the opposite.

Shutting down threads seems to be the less troublesome thing to do, rather than take action against individual posters who may head to DRP.

Leave threads open for people who want to discuss the topic, get rid of those who just want to act the dick.

The Nkencho thread was closed, and I think this post applies here.

I appreciate that there were mod warnings and then posters who didn't adhere to the warnings received cards...but why close the thread? Why not say that X, Y and Z are now threadbanned and leave the thread open?

I get the sense that mods (very understandably) think 'ah f**k this, it's all just too much hassle, I'm closing this thread.' Particularly if it's 1.52am!

But I think threadbans are the way to go here - you act the dick in a thread, you lose the right to post in that thread.

Kraftwerk · 17-01-2021 10:54am

Were the whingers constantly reporting the thread or something? Because there's loads of threads that are constantly going off topic and never closed. The SF thread for example is rarely on topic and is mostly shinners complaining about FG. But it's never actioned.

Why is the nkencho thread treated differently?

nullzero · 17-01-2021 10:55am

Nkencho thread closing is OTT.

I suppose it shows the power of complaint, those who couldn't argue successfully that the killing was racially motivated went down the route of complaint.

Anyone posting in the thread and not abiding by the warnings should have been warned or thread banned. Instead the nuclear option was chosen.

The George Nkencho case is by no means resolved, and we can be sure it will continue to be discussed. Is the topic of this case now not allowed to be discussed on boards? Because other threads will invariably pop up over time.

17-01-2021 11:07am

nullzero wrote: »

Nkencho thread closing is OTT.

I suppose it shows the power of complaint, those who couldn't argue successfully that the killing was racially motivated went down the route of complaint.

Anyone posting in the thread and not abiding by the warnings should have been warned or thread banned. Instead the nuclear option was chosen.

The George Nkencho case is by no means resolved, and we can be sure it will continue to be discussed. Is the topic of this case now not allowed to be discussed on boards? Because other threads will invariably pop up over time.

Looking last night, it was regular posters in that thread making incredibly racist remarks about Nigerians. It didn't even relate to the topic. I'm guessing going off topic on rants is a regular feature since it happened a few days back as well when I checked it.

Also the people making the incredibly racist jabs are more often than not regulars on the site.

Also this will predictably result in posters blaming me and other posters for the closure of the thread. The reality is it's down to the conduct of those who wanted to go off on racist tangents...

Topgear on Dave · 17-01-2021 11:09am

Nkencho thread was going nowhere. Open a new one when the result of the GSOC investigation is released and there are more accurate details.

Kraftwerk · 17-01-2021 11:28am

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Nkencho thread was going nowhere. Open a new one when the result of the GSOC investigation is released and there are more accurate details.

Just like to clarify the procedure to close threads. From what I see here it's:

1. Whinge on the thread itself about the thread existing.
2. Insult other posters because the thread isn't closed.
3. Get threadbanned for contributing nothing.
4. Move to feedback to whinge over and over.
5. Keep reporting anything and everything from the threads you're banned from.
6. Mods will eventually close the thread.

Can we stick that in the charter please so we're all clear on it?

Beasty · 17-01-2021 11:30am

Overheal wrote: »

The problem is when it’s not clear which mod was involved? Should someone ask in help desk then?

Simple enough to PM any of the forum mods. In this particular case it was a clear mistake and I did not have to discuss with the relevant mod before correcting it.

inforfun · 17-01-2021 11:34am

I guess some people just never learn.
If you keep dragging stuff into a thread that isnt really relevant for that thread, you give people for whom the subject of a thread is uncomfortable, the chance to report the **** out of a thread and get it closed.

Beasty · 17-01-2021 11:40am

I'm just seeing from the comments here that the Nkencho thread has been closed

The incident occurred 18 days ago. The thread has nearly 8,000 posts. Is there really much more that can be said about the incident?

I appreciate there will be a follow up by relevant authorities, which can be addressed at the relevant time. However the thread is a magnet for anyone wanting to raise any immigration or indeed race issue. It had run its course on the thread topic.

If anyone has any new information or has an relevant aspect they believe has not been covered please drop me a PM and we can look at re-opening it to discuss the relevant issue

This is it · 17-01-2021 11:47am

Beasty wrote: »

I'm just seeing from the comments here that the Nkencho thread has been closed

The incident occurred 18 days ago. The thread has nearly 8,000 posts. Is there really much more that can be said about the incident?

I appreciate there will be a follow up by relevant authorities, which can be addressed at the relevant time. However the thread is a magnet for anyone wanting to raise any immigration or indeed race issue. It had run its course on the thread topic.

If anyone has any new information or has an relevant aspect they believe has not been covered please drop me a PM and we can look at re-opening it to discuss the relevant issue

A thread should be let run until it falls off naturally. If posters are causing issues in the thread then thread ban them, card them, ban them, etc. For those posters to kill a thread that others are using to discuss the topic legitimately reads as lazy modding to me. Don't let the few dictate what thread is open or closed, remove them from the situation if they don't follow the rules and the previous warnings.

Beasty · 17-01-2021 11:59am

As I said - PM me with any new info and we will consider re-opening

Sir Oxman · 17-01-2021 12:08pm

Beasty wrote: »

I'm just seeing from the comments here that the Nkencho thread has been closed

The incident occurred 18 days ago. The thread has nearly 8,000 posts. Is there really much more that can be said about the incident?

I appreciate there will be a follow up by relevant authorities, which can be addressed at the relevant time. However the thread is a magnet for anyone wanting to raise any immigration or indeed race issue. It had run its course on the thread topic.

If anyone has any new information or has an relevant aspect they believe has not been covered please drop me a PM and we can look at re-opening it to discuss the relevant issue

There are very valid (sub)topics that are a result directly from and relating to the incident and these are ongoing and very important IMO.

I have to say the closure smells or can legitimately be seen as acquiescence to an agenda whereas the very best effort should be used to ensure bad faith posts and posters are dealt with and yes, I understand the hard work on that can be onerous but simply crumpling to vocal activist posters no matter their status here, is wrong for the board IMO.

Omackeral · 17-01-2021 1:28pm

nullzero wrote: »

I suppose it shows the power of complaint, those who couldn't argue successfully that the killing was racially motivated went down the route of complaint.

Aka cancel culture

nullzero · 17-01-2021 1:33pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Looking last night, it was regular posters in that thread making incredibly racist remarks about Nigerians. It didn't even relate to the topic. I'm guessing going off topic on rants is a regular feature since it happened a few days back as well when I checked it.

Also the people making the incredibly racist jabs are more often than not regulars on the site.

Also this will predictably result in posters blaming me and other posters for the closure of the thread. The reality is it's down to the conduct of those who wanted to go off on racist tangents...

There were several posts that could be described as anti immigration, or more precisely against people who avail of asylum here and accuse this country of being institutionally racist heading back to where they came from.

Racism would suggest comments made about skin colour and ethnicity which wasn't the case.

I think your comments are indicative of the rush to cry foul over anything that isn't complimentary to certain members of society.

I think you would be hard pushed to find many posters on that thread that were actually overtly racist, but there were a lot of posters who were fed up with the double standards in relation to immigrants in this country who accuse us of being racist nation when that demonstrably isn't true.

Beasty · 17-01-2021 1:41pm

Sir Oxman wrote: »

There are very valid (sub)topics that are a result directly from and relating to the incident and these are ongoing and very important IMO.

Please PM me with details of what you would like to discuss that has not already been covered

KyussB · 17-01-2021 3:06pm

I mean, is a news story that is still being actively written about in newspapers, with new details emerging, not still a 'Current Affair'?

We've learned that citing facts posted by newspapers does not shield people from mod action, when mod disagreement with those facts is the basis for the sanction (and that is not reversed even after emerging news stories continually back up the cited facts, in greater and greater detail...) - now the whole news story, that is still being published about with new updates, is apparently 'old news' now and has already been completely/entirely covered...

Granted, I'm certain the moderation of the thread has been and is very difficult - but can some effort please be made to undo the screwups in moderation, and not to make more? It comes across as trying to suppress the news story and facts involved - even though I'm certain it is more likely just a difficult to moderate discussion.

Overheal · 17-01-2021 3:16pm

KyussB wrote: »

I mean, is a news story that is still being actively written about in newspapers, with new details emerging, not still a 'Current Affair'?

We've learned that citing facts posted by newspapers does not shield people from mod action, when mod disagreement with those facts is the basis for the sanction (and that is not reversed even after emerging news stories continually back up the cited facts, in greater and greater detail...) - now the whole news story, that is still being published about with new updates, is apparently 'old news' now and has already been completely/entirely covered...

Granted, I'm certain the moderation of the thread has been and is very difficult - but can some effort please be made to undo the screwups in moderation, and not to make more? It comes across as trying to suppress the news story and facts involved - even though I'm certain it is more likely just a difficult to moderate discussion.

3 days old news link. Surely the content has been ravenously covered by the nature of the thread; loads of people just bickering around one or two of these breadcrumbs that crop up every few days and with dwindling frequency?

Also in Ireland isn't there in fact a real danger that by not exercising some restraint about discussion of ongoing cases that you begin to seriously risk the possibility of mistrial?

KyussB · 17-01-2021 3:40pm

If there were a 3 day staleness rule for news stories (including the weekend, it seems...), the entire Current Affairs forum would be locked.

I've looked back through the thread up to the date of that link, and there are still falsehoods being routinely repeated, which are in contradiction with facts cited in that link - I can't go into them, though. The contents of the story itself is extremely notable and important.

It's a bit weird that you're inventing concerns about a non-existant trial, as an ex-post-facto justification for the locking.

nullzero · 17-01-2021 3:42pm

Overheal wrote: »

3 days old news link. Surely the content has been ravenously covered by the nature of the thread; loads of people just bickering around one or two of these breadcrumbs that crop up every few days and with dwindling frequency?

Also in Ireland isn't there in fact a real danger that by not exercising some restraint about discussion of ongoing cases that you begin to seriously risk the possibility of mistrial?

How would the possibility of a mistrial be relevant to the George Nkencho case?

Generally that type of thing refers to situations where living people are on trial for something like say murder.

Sir Oxman · 17-01-2021 3:43pm

Beasty wrote: »

Please PM me with details of what you would like to discuss that has not already been covered

Done.

Overheal · 17-01-2021 4:17pm

nullzero wrote: »

How would the possibility of a mistrial be relevant to the George Nkencho case?

Generally that type of thing refers to situations where living people are on trial for something like say murder.

No possibility of trial for the shooter?

nullzero · 17-01-2021 4:26pm

Overheal wrote: »

No possibility of trial for the shooter?

Not at this juncture.

I believe there will be an inquest into the events as is standard GSOC procedure. If there were issues arising from that inquest in relation to the Garda who shot him then there could be potential for a trial.

As things stand the correct procedures appear to have been followed and although the outcome was tragic George Nkencho would appear to have given AGS no options beyond what transpired.

The Mark Hennessy case whilst different in many ways to that of George Nkencho also ended with him motioning to stab armed Gardai and he was also shot dead as a result, no criminal charges were brought against that Garda.

I would ask you to share your thoughts on this case but this is not the correct forum (or thread to be precise) and the one dealing with it is now closed.

Beasty · 17-01-2021 4:31pm

KyussB wrote: »

If there were a 3 day staleness rule for news stories (including the weekend, it seems...), the entire Current Affairs forum would be locked.

I've looked back through the thread up to the date of that link, and there are still falsehoods being routinely repeated, which are in contradiction with facts cited in that link - I can't go into them, though. The contents of the story itself is extremely notable and important.

It's a bit weird that you're inventing concerns about a non-existant trial, as an ex-post-facto justification for the locking.

Please provide me via PM details of any aspects of this incident that has not already been discussed in the thread

17-01-2021 5:46pm

Not to load on with the criticism, but

i. Some people went too far (sanction them)

and

ii Why shouldnt we lock it (kinda reverse approach than what youd seek tbh)

dont seem to be sufficient justification here.

if

iii Topic no longer current enough

were applied that strictly then as noted above thered be threads slamming shut all over the place and if

iv the same few posters kept moaning enough that eventually the balance of the decision moved towards just closing it

is an input, id suggest mod action against those few posters (you will, i suggest, find most of them in here every few posts using this thread to lobby for that thread being closed, fairly shamelessly against mod instruction as far as can be seen)

17-01-2021 5:53pm

Your proposal is to action posters for offering feedback fore legit concerns about the way certain threads go? Right so... Not lobbying for it to be closed by the way, I do think certain posters get far too much leeway in terms of how they conduct themselves.

17-01-2021 6:41pm

Im noting that a handful of posters have dominated this forum feedback thread for several dozen pages lobbying about one specific thread and im pretty sure ive seen manys the mod note in this thread not to do that.

I dont think its backseat modding to connect an insistent minority group effort to get a thread shut by behaving like this may have been a factor in mods just slightly lean more towards "f*** it, lets close that thread altogether" but hey its merely musing for me to do so tbf

Wasnt using that thread, no dog in the specific fight but i dont think that carry on is what this thread is for and i don't think locking threads because of individual posters crossing lines is great

Thats all

This is it · 17-01-2021 6:49pm

Beasty wrote: »

Please provide me via PM details of any aspects of this incident that has not already been discussed in the thread

This is ridiculous. Opinion Beasty. The whole thread and almost every thread on the whole of boards is generally someone's opinion. I've said very little in that thread so if I now want to add further opinion, is that cause enough to open it back up? When there's nothing left to say the thread will die, until then it should be left open with those causing issues banned from taking part.

Kraftwerk · 17-01-2021 6:50pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Your proposal is to action posters for offering feedback fore legit concerns about the way certain threads go? Right so... Not lobbying for it to be closed by the way, I do think certain posters get far too much leeway in terms of how they conduct themselves.

It's pretty clear that those posters are abusing feedback and most likely the report function to shut down a thread. Some of them are banned from the thread and others did nothing but troll it with hit and run posts to stir up arguments to whinge about in feedback.

The end result is those posters incessant whinging getting to mods who close the thread and are now having to invent reasons (which don't seem to apply to any other thread) to justify its closure.

And I must have seen a half a dozen cards when people react to the resident troll who seems to be allowed do what he likes on boards while getting in everyone's ear whinging.

Perhaps it's not the thread that's the problem but the fact far too much leeway is given to certain posters when entertaining their delicate sensibilities.

Chips Lovell · 17-01-2021 6:53pm

I imagine its fairly straightforward. If a topic has dropped out of the news and the thread isn't causing too many problems, then it's no problem letting it run. But if there's nothing new to say about it and people are consistently acting the maggot, it makes sense to lock it up.

Does seem to be one of those topics, like the Maria Bailey swing thing, that attracted a bizarre level of interest relative to the public attention it received.

Sir Oxman · 17-01-2021 6:59pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Im noting that a handful of posters have dominated this forum feedback thread for several dozen pages lobbying about one specific thread and im pretty sure ive seen manys the mod note in this thread not to do that.

I dont think its backseat modding to connect an insistent minority group effort to get a thread shut by behaving like this may have been a factor in mods just slightly lean more towards "f*** it, lets close that thread altogether" but hey its merely musing for me to do so tbf

Wasnt using that thread, no dog in the specific fight but i dont think that carry on is what this thread is for and i don't think locking threads because of individual posters crossing lines is great

Thats all

Same happened to the 'JK Rowling is a TERF thread'
Same modus operandi, it was like the very idea that the whole gamut of that current affair could never be aired was the aim of what I term, activist posters.
There was some sh1t posting which was dealt with, the vast majority of posts were involved in the actual discussion.

I'm not at all paranoid :pac:, but it was a fact that posters that really did not want a discussion to be had whatsoever were allowed to post completely unsubstantiated accusations at other posters and discussion points via dubious 'news'papers left, right and centre without deletion or warnings/bans
And the campaign carried on in tandem on Feedback.

It was eventually closed but a mod opened up a newly titled thread.
Maybe a new thread title is all that's required?

Introducing the Current Affairs/IMHO forum

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