ICT Specialists (Executive Officer level) in Civil Service

Zipppy · 20-11-2014 9:13pm

zweton wrote: »

it is closed now?

Next Fri 27.11.14......

Mango Joe · 23-11-2014 9:44pm

In all fairness the salary on offer is very low and doesn't compare without how the ordinary Joe/Jane would get on in any other professional IT capacity - You'd be on twice the take home pay in half the time anywhere else.

- No incentive to get on, improve and try hard - The money on offer can only serve to encourage people to perform as the rumours would have you believe the typical working day in public sector jobs go zzzzzzzzzzzzz...zzzz.zz.z

By rights there should be zero applications for this and let them address etc.

My fear is that if you pay peanuts you get monkeys and thats all thats going to happen here.......

delricyo · 24-11-2014 1:24am

Mango Joe wrote: »

In all fairness the salary on offer is very low and doesn't compare without how the ordinary Joe/Jane would get on in any other professional IT capacity - You'd be on twice the take home pay in half the time anywhere else.

- No incentive to get on, improve and try hard - The money on offer can only serve to encourage people to perform as the rumours would have you believe the typical working day in public sector jobs go zzzzzzzzzzzzz...zzzz.zz.z

By rights there should be zero applications for this and let them address etc.

My fear is that if you pay peanuts you get monkeys and thats all thats going to happen here.......

You raise a good point. The salary is quite low - but I suppose that is what they are not looking for an IT degree. But instead they are looking for some sort of post LC qualifications.

Looking for an IT degree and offering an EO salary is a joke to be honest. There was a job in DPER a few months ago that looked very good. They wanted an IT degree, experience with db's etc etc - and they had the cheek to offer EO scale. I thought it would definitely be an AO role when I was reading the spec.

The civil service can be frustrating when trying to progress. A lot of people will apply for this (and good luck to them) who are over qualified. They may think "I can get a foot in the door, and work hard to move up". A good friend of mine took an EO role 7 years ago at the same time that he was applying for several AO roles, aiming to get AO/HEO within a few years. 8 years later, he is working his ass off and still hasnt moved from EO.

But - best of luck to all who apply

bennyineire · 24-11-2014 11:25am

I noticed on the info booklet that it says the working week will not be less than 42.5 hours a week.
In the public sector does this include you lunch hour or not,
Basically if it does include your lunch hour you would be looking at
9 - 5.30
If not then
8.30 - 6

The_Conductor · 24-11-2014 11:30am

bennyineire wrote: »

I noticed on the info booklet that it says the working week will not be less than 42.5 hours a week.
In the public sector does this include you lunch hour or not,
Basically if it does include your lunch hour you would be looking at
9 - 5.30
If not then
8.30 - 6

You clock out for lunch. Lunch can be anytime between 12.30 and 2.30- and can be for a maximum of 2 hours- but you must take a minimum of 30 minutes. If you don't clock out for lunch- you get a 2 hour penalty. Lunch is 'off-the-clock'

The working day is classified as a 7.24 hour day- exclusive of lunch (don't ask me how its such an odd number- but it is).

bennyineire · 24-11-2014 12:01pm

7.24 * 5 = 36.2 hours
But this role it states is not less than 42.5 hours a week
So I'm guessing the day would be
9 - 6 with a 30 minute lunch break
or 8.30 - 6 with 1 hour lunch break
I know this is not unusual in the private sector but is this normal in the public sector when it comes to IT

Gongoozler · 24-11-2014 12:20pm

In the public sector your week is 37.5 hours. That along with 5 hours for lunch is 42.5.

Zipppy · 24-11-2014 12:22pm

bennyineire wrote: »

I noticed on the info booklet that it says the working week will not be less than 42.5 hours a week.
In the public sector does this include you lunch hour or not,
Basically if it does include your lunch hour you would be looking at
9 - 5.30
If not then
8.30 - 6

Generally when you see public sector jobs advertised with >40 Hr working week, the hours stated include a daily lunch break of an hour.
So 42.5 = 37.5 (minus 5 hour lunch breaks) ...

bennyineire · 24-11-2014 12:33pm

Thanks guys, that's what I though but wasn't sure,
I applied btw but I'm only in my 10th month of relevant experience but I'm guessing the hiring process will go on for at least a few months.

I have a Master's in Comp Sci (Conversion) and I would think this would be a great role to gain good work experience so hopefully I can get at least an interview

Zipppy · 26-11-2014 12:36pm

Zipppy wrote: »

Next Fri 27.11.14......

That should have been midnight THURSDAY 27.11.2014...

I just submitted my application...:)

fguinan · 28-11-2014 10:35am

Zipppy wrote: »

That should have been midnight THURSDAY 27.11.2014...

I just submitted my application...:)

Thanks! I thought it was a Friday deadline aswell

Zipppy · 28-11-2014 9:18pm

Hoping to secure a position here....would rather this to AO tbh.....

I wonder how many vacancies there are..

Beaner1 · 28-11-2014 11:49pm

delricyo wrote: »

You raise a good point. The salary is quite low - but I suppose that is what they are not looking for an IT degree. But instead they are looking for some sort of post LC qualifications.

Looking for an IT degree and offering an EO salary is a joke to be honest. There was a job in DPER a few months ago that looked very good. They wanted an IT degree, experience with db's etc etc - and they had the cheek to offer EO scale. I thought it would definitely be an AO role when I was reading the spec.

The civil service can be frustrating when trying to progress. A lot of people will apply for this (and good luck to them) who are over qualified. They may think "I can get a foot in the door, and work hard to move up". A good friend of mine took an EO role 7 years ago at the same time that he was applying for several AO roles, aiming to get AO/HEO within a few years. 8 years later, he is working his ass off and still hasnt moved from EO.

But - best of luck to all who apply

Promotion is close to non exiatant and will be that way for a long while. I left a HEO post because of it. I wouldn't even take a PO post if it was offered such is my increase of earnings. Go in and get your experience of you really was not to but have a good escape route.

The_Conductor · 29-11-2014 8:50am

Beaner1 wrote: »

Promotion is close to non exiatant and will be that way for a long while. I left a HEO post because of it. I wouldn't even take a PO post if it was offered such is my increase of earnings. Go in and get your experience of you really was not to but have a good escape route.

Things are improving in all fairness- some Departments are on their 2-3-4th internal promotion panels in the last year- and depending on your qualifications- you may be eligible to go for promotion in multiple different directions.

Zipppy · 02-12-2014 4:52pm

Do folk think it possible that only an interview / presentation could be required here rather than the silly aptitude tests firstly ? - as there's bound to be lots less applicants...

The_Conductor · 02-12-2014 5:29pm

Lots less applicants- could still be well over a thousand.......
They need a manner of culling the list of applicants.
Certainly the aptitude tests etc are a blunt instrument that will discard a significant number of candidates who would make excellent employees- but it is a tool which is equally fair- or unfair- on everyone........

It would be nice if they did just interview everyone- and rank everyone on the basis of their interview and/or presentation- however, you may have brilliant people who are just appalling at interviews who would fall over........ so it is swings and roundabouts.

In any event- the capacity to interview people is finite- they need to get the numbers down to manageable levels- before they get to that stage.

Beaner1 · 02-12-2014 5:35pm

Psychometric tests aren't just there to filter numbers. They do serve as a useful indicator of job specific intelligence.

The_Conductor · 02-12-2014 5:59pm

Beaner1 wrote: »

Psychometric tests aren't just there to filter numbers. They do serve as a useful indicator of job specific intelligence.

Proper psychometric tests- yes. These blunt verbal and numeracy tests- not really.......?

Beaner1 · 02-12-2014 6:04pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Proper psychometric tests- yes. These blunt verbal and numeracy tests- not really.......?

They are proper psychometric tests. I've books on them . If you struggle with either of these tests then you're not very bright and will struggle at certain jobs.

TallGlass · 02-12-2014 6:15pm

Beaner1 wrote: »

They are proper psychometric tests. I've books on them . If you struggle with either of these tests then you're not very bright and will struggle at certain jobs.

Or have not studied/prepared for the tests, then each company has there own styles of writing the tests. There a bit of a joke if you ask me, but they are here to stay so like you have done just study them and you'll be some what fine.

starlit · 02-12-2014 6:21pm

I've applied to these roles before and wasn't successful with interview/presentation but didn't have to do an aptitude test that was aprox 3 years ago! It was a hard interview though think they weren't too happy with my examples and lack of teamwork from college/work experience can't help most of my projects was individual based for the IT side of things and group based on the business side! arragh!

They really zoned in on the teamwork side of things. I think I gave too much examples and not enough detail but done interviews for civil service before and got on ok and my examples were ideal and detailed. Gave example/star approach on paper when answers competency questions and gave that example in interview and another example while interview was conducted and did grand.

The_Conductor wrote: »

Guys-

When they say they're looking for a minimum of 5 honours at leaving cert to include a minimum of a C in Irish, English, Maths (or however they phrased it)- they mean you have to have a minimum of a Level 5 qualification on the National Framework of Qualifications scale.

There is a scale published here

A pass leaving cert is rated at a 4 on the scale.
An honours leaving cert is rated at a 5
A certificate from an institute of Technology- is a 6
An ordinary level degree is a 7
An honours 4 year degree- or a hDip is an 8
A Masters or a Grad Dip is a 9
A doctorate is a 10

For this particular post- you need a minimum of a level 5 qualification.

All public sector appointments, that have minimal educational qualifications- use the National Framework scale (and have done for the past few years).

Note- an honors degree is a 4 year degree- and not a 1/2.1/2.2- a first in a 3 year BSc/BA (or whatever)- is a level 7 qualification not a level 8 qualification- this is probably the one and only point of confusion that normally arises.

Thanks for that that's interesting but thought that was based on the level for each qualification not how they marked according to scale by civil service?

Beaner1 wrote: »

They are proper psychometric tests. I've books on them . If you struggle with either of these tests then you're not very bright and will struggle at certain jobs.

What psychometric books have you?

i've one that includes various different types of tests, I used it as prep for them especially if I had to go to a centre to do tests like i've done for banks but test was a silo and grains test totally different to aptitude tests. I do fine for the majority of the tests just the numerical I fall down on. Generally do grand in the logic/verbal/error checking ones.

Jack Sawyer · 08-12-2014 12:52am

Hey there, so when can expect to hear back from the recruitment panel on this?

Just wondering about the likely timeframes involved, Will this be all done and dusted within 2 months, 3 months, 6 months?!

If you are not successful now is there a chance of a call in say a years time if something opens up etc?

Also any indication yet of likely amount of jobs outside of Dublin??? Are Cork, Galway and Limerick in with a shout?!

Best of luck everyone who applied....

Thanks

The_Conductor · 08-12-2014 7:49am

doovdela wrote: »

I've applied to these roles before and wasn't successful with interview/presentation but didn't have to do an aptitude test that was aprox 3 years ago! It was a hard interview though think they weren't too happy with my examples and lack of teamwork from college/work experience can't help most of my projects was individual based for the IT side of things and group based on the business side! arragh!

It really depends on the role you're going for- and how that role might be perceived to slot into the organisation chart in the civil service. So- an AO might be largely autonomous- and expected to be able to work independently to a high standard and report back with an end product. An EO on the other hand- is actually more likely to have a few staff- and be more expected to have a collaborative approach to how they approach their daily work. They would not be expected to have as extensive a knowledge base as an AO would- and would in turn- be presumed to be using a HEO or even AP as a mentor to bring themselves up to speed. Teamwork is key for an EO- working independently- for an AO........

doovdela wrote: »

They really zoned in on the teamwork side of things. I think I gave too much examples and not enough detail but done interviews for civil service before and got on ok and my examples were ideal and detailed. Gave example/star approach on paper when answers competency questions and gave that example in interview and another example while interview was conducted and did grand.

Having good examples is important- but also showing what your ownership of particular parts of the example was- how it interacted with the other people involved- and what the initial proposition was, how it was approached, how it concluded and what the outcome was (obviously you want something that worked- not failed)........

doovdela wrote: »

Thanks for that that's interesting but thought that was based on the level for each qualification not how they marked according to scale by civil service?

Yes- its marked by the level for each qualification- so an honors degree- is a level 8 qualification- not a 1.1/1.2/2.1/2.2............

The_Conductor · 08-12-2014 7:59am

Jack Sawyer wrote: »

Hey there, so when can expect to hear back from the recruitment panel on this?

Just wondering about the likely timeframes involved, Will this be all done and dusted within 2 months, 3 months, 6 months?!

If you are not successful now is there a chance of a call in say a years time if something opens up etc?

Also any indication yet of likely amount of jobs outside of Dublin??? Are Cork, Galway and Limerick in with a shout?!

Best of luck everyone who applied....

Thanks

Unfortunately- and I hate using the phrase- 'it all depends'..........
PAS are snowed under with a plethora of competions- both internally and externally at the moment.
Normally when you apply- you'd hear back with details of an online assessment within 2-3 weeks (after the closing date of the competition), you'd have 2-3 weeks to do the online assessment (with a window for perhaps 5 days in which it has to be sat), it would take a few days for the external company to collate and send the results back to PAS- and then a few days for PAS to digest them........

If you fail to make it to the recruitment panel- it is not that it will be reopened, and people who failed to make the initial cut will be given a second bite at the cherry. Normally- panels were constituted for either a 12 or 18 month timeframe. When this period elapsed, or whenever the panel was exhausted- a new competition was held- and a fresh panel constituted. So- there was a competition at the backend of 2014- its foreseeable- that there would be another in 12 months time- or shortly thereafter........

As for posts outside of Dublin- several Departments have considerable IT expertise outside of Dublin- and while you may not be posted to one of these locations initially- normally you could expect to move to a more desireable location over time.

As an EO ICT- I got out of Dublin- to a regional location, close to home, and convenient for bringing the children to school etc- eventually....... It took me a few years to get to my desired location- and there was a bit of give and take to achieve it. I've at least 3 hours extra in my day because of the move.

The PSEU (the union who represent the EO/AO/HEO grades) distribute a monthly magazine to members- which has a few pages of positions that people are seeking transfers from/to at the back. There are always dozens of people seeking to move- some to Dublin from other locations- some in the other direction- some want to move Departments'- others want to stay with their home departments- etc etc etc......... Its a waiting game- but one that eventually a door opens on..........

Jack Sawyer · 08-12-2014 12:39pm

As for posts outside of Dublin- several Departments have considerable IT expertise outside of Dublin- and while you may not be posted to one of these locations initially- normally you could expect to move to a more desireable location over time.

As an EO ICT- I got out of Dublin- to a regional location, close to home, and convenient for bringing the children to school etc- eventually....... It took me a few years to get to my desired location- and there was a bit of give and take to achieve it. I've at least 3 hours extra in my day because of the move.

The PSEU (the union who represent the EO/AO/HEO grades) distribute a monthly magazine to members- which has a few pages of positions that people are seeking transfers from/to at the back. There are always dozens of people seeking to move- some to Dublin from other locations- some in the other direction- some want to move Departments'- others want to stay with their home departments- etc etc etc......... Its a waiting game- but one that eventually a door opens on..........

Thanks the Conductor, great to get all that information on request, much appreciated

Am a bit worried now though as realistically I will not be able to take a job in Dublin even for a year or two due to my family situation.

Is it right assume there little or no chance of getting offered say Cork or limerick etc straight off?

Thanks.

francozola · 11-12-2014 1:28pm

Has there been any update sent out in regards the next step. Haven't heard anything back since I submitted my application

Zipppy · 11-12-2014 1:45pm

francozola wrote: »

Has there been any update sent out in regards the next step. Haven't heard anything back since I submitted my application

Have heard nought ...

bennyineire · 11-12-2014 3:36pm

Me 3

Zipppy · 15-12-2014 1:38pm

drumswan · 15-12-2014 1:44pm

Lads its IT in the civil service. Things do not happen quickly.

Zipppy · 18-12-2014 10:52am

Did anyone download the job spec for this one?

if so could they post up again please?

Beaner1 · 18-12-2014 11:55am

Zipppy wrote: »

Did anyone download the job spec for this one?

if so could they post up again please?

It's available online.

Zipppy · 18-12-2014 12:03pm

Beaner1 wrote: »

It's available online.

Cant find it

Beaner1 · 18-12-2014 12:08pm

Zipppy wrote: »

Cant find it

Do you have an IT background? How are your Google skills?

Mrs OBumble · 18-12-2014 1:52pm

My experience with Public Jobs is that once the closing date has passed, the JD is no longer on line.

So - Beaner1, if you have the link could you post it please. In other words, be helpful or be quiet, thank you.

/moderation

Beaner1 · 18-12-2014 2:18pm

I'm giving him clues to help him. Somebody with an ICT background should not be asked these questions in my professional opinion.

I'm on my phone but put the job title in Google, site:.ie and filetype doc or pdf. It's there as a cached result.

Slydice · 18-12-2014 5:21pm

Here ya go :-)

Zipppy · 18-12-2014 5:24pm

Beaner1 wrote: »

I'm giving him clues to help him. Somebody with an ICT background should not be asked these questions in my professional opinion.

I'm on my phone but put the job title in Google, site:.ie and filetype doc or pdf. It's there as a cached result.

Thanks for the 'clues' beaner1 - I am aware of Google searching techniques..alas in this instance search results are not returning my desired url hence rather than spend time unproductively searching I wondered had anyone perhaps saved the document or have the url to hand.

if you can assist great and thanks in advance...

EDIT: Thank you SlyDice !

Zipppy · 03-01-2015 7:28pm

Here's hoping this gets moved on early next week......

kippy · 03-01-2015 7:35pm

Zipppy wrote: »

Here's hoping this gets moved on early next week......

These thing generally take months......

Zipppy · 06-01-2015 7:37pm

Well I'm in for next stage....more bloody tests...beginning of Feb apparently...
Anyone else?

lhanley84 · 06-01-2015 8:20pm

Yip I'm in too :-)

The Gibzilla · 06-01-2015 9:58pm

Made it to stage 2. Exam time! Now, where did I leave my abacus...

fxotoole · 08-01-2015 12:46am

Applied for this position and got called forward to stage 2

myrns · 08-01-2015 10:42am

Got the email to say am through to Verbal & Numerical apptitude tests in Feb..

Moocifer · 08-01-2015 1:39pm

Got word I m through as well

uck51js9zml2yt · 08-01-2015 7:06pm

Me too

westmeath11 · 09-01-2015 11:58am

Sean Embarrassed Scrap wrote: »

Me too

Hi All,
I am new to this thread, I have also been called to the tests in February. I have also applied for the CO position and was successful at interview. I am on that waiting list and decided to go for this one as it's the area that I am, qualified in and have a lot of experience working in.
Does anyone know, the Conductor perhaps as he provided valuable information on the co thread, if this will follow the same process as the CO campaign in that the first test will be a test that you do at home and then if successful you do a supervised test ?
Also would the test be much tougher than the co test ?

Thanks
Westmeath11

Moocifer · 09-01-2015 2:41pm

Hi Westhmeath 11

From previous competition s I ve done they follow a similar path although the EO one is more challenging than the CO one. Also when it came to testing there was an extra stage in the EO JSA as it used to be known from the ordainary EO. It's been a few years since either of these competitions have been run so it could have changed.

westmeath11 · 09-01-2015 3:02pm

Moocifer wrote: »

Hi Westhmeath 11

From previous competition s I ve done they follow a similar path although the EO one is more challenging than the CO one. Also when it came to testing there was an extra stage in the EO JSA as it used to be known from the ordainary EO. It's been a few years since either of these competitions have been run so it could have changed.

Thanks

ICT Specialists (Executive Officer level) in Civil Service

Comments