New home sale in Belmont, Stepaside, Dublin 18

Shedzafew · 15-01-2014 2:01pm

Hi Lillian,

Family member who has bought did not make any alterations to tiling in kitchen or bathrooms. They said that the two foremen on site have been extremely accommodating in terms of accepting deliveries to the house and opening up the property for independent trade’s people he has hired to take measurements and install carpets & flooring. I will DM you their details if you like.

If you feel like you are settling for a house up there I most certainly would not proceed with the purchase. You will continually be looking up myhome/daft looking at properties that could have been.

Lillian123 · 15-01-2014 2:05pm

Hi Shezafew,

Yes please PM those details. How long have you been waiting for updates on the contracts so far?

Wallander · 15-01-2014 2:05pm

Just on the traveller site issue - it's caused a lot of concern in my household as we're also at the contract stage. I've done a bit of research on existing traveller housing sites in South Dublin and while I think it has to be a bad thing if it goes ahead I have a few remarks that soften the blow, in my mind at least:

-All of the sites seem to be designed to be kept away from main roads with longish approach roads. The proposed site in Stepaside does seem rather small and bang on the main road, but I would expect an attempt to seal houses from view of that road. You might even get an approach road curving around to make it feel even more set back.

-There are no obvious signs of any great chaos, caravans or horses at these existing sites visible from Google Satellite. Of course that's only saying so much, but there's enough detail on the images to see the council is trying to keep a lid on things - I've seen a car-park style height gate on the approach road to one site which is presumably designed to keep caravans out.

-While I doubt the impact on house prices/reselling could be positive if this goes ahead, I feel it might not be a complete disaster based on other evidence. We saw a four-bed place in Blackrock which I've just now discovered backs almost right onto an existing traveller housing site. Location is very convenient for Blackrock Centre but the house was a fair bit smaller than what we are after at Belmont. Similar small garden. It was sold last month for 560k

Lillian123 · 15-01-2014 2:25pm

Hi Wallander,

Thanks for your insight into the traveller site. I think you are right the entrance will probably be off the main Enniskerry road as it is at the end of that triangle site. I am thinking I will ring DLR county council today and ask about what is planned for the whole site, will update here what they say. Have you been waiting long since you first received the contracts, to get answers on the issues?

Jared20130204 · 15-01-2014 3:00pm

Hi Lillian,

Contract came through early November. Issues sent back mid November, with main one being title deed issue.they reverted mid December answering queries and just advising that they have expedited Registration in the Land registration and will revert on that point.
They hadn't sent Home bond documentation either so part of that arrived last week, but wasn't complete so We have requested the complete documentation and sent a few more queries..... To be honest I would't worry too much about your contract and delays...Houses seem to be behind schedule and the Land registry don't seem to have expedited anything so not alot to be signing for right now!

cmore123 · 15-01-2014 4:06pm

I'm worried again now.

Can any of the people involved in these houses really be trusted at all? First, the grass-cutting charge is €100, now it seems it will be six it eight times that. First, there seems little chance of an adjacent traveller site, now (if I read this correctly), it's as good as a done deal!

Having put down a deposit and awaiting a contract in the list, I just wonder now. If there's a spike in new house prices, what happens when things settle down, if I go to sell? Will I only be able to get less (déjà vu), if I can sell at all given proximity of a traveller site?

I have nothing against some travellers myself but that isn't the point. A potential buyer might.

Shedzafew · 15-01-2014 4:26pm

Cmore if you read correctly the halting site is far from a done deal. There are a number of proposed sites and if they all go ahead nearly all areas in South County Dublin will be in close proximity to at least one halting site. Why are people only finding out about the proposed site now? This has been discussed from the start of the thread and well documented in the media for years now.

The proposed maintenance fee is estimated to increase to between €300-€600, depending on the size of your house. This will pay for the park and general maintenance of the area also. Most housing estates across SCD have either an official or unofficial charge that is looked after by the residents association.

Jorg_East · 15-01-2014 4:47pm

The halting site is indeed something to be concerned about, but maybe not so much: it is small (only 4 bays) and relatively far from Belmont. As far as I know the remaining land north to the halting site is designated for council housing. This one is bigger and much closer to Belmont. Isn't this a bigger concern in your view?

M2014 · 15-01-2014 10:14pm

Hi all, am I the only one who thinks Sherry Fitz are unofficially contributing to this thread already?

Shedzafew · 15-01-2014 10:21pm

If they are they are not doing a very good job!

Shedzafew · 15-01-2014 10:34pm

This post is from another thread about new builds and stamp duty. Do people who completed avail of/know anything about this?

"Frome Revenue.ie
VAT and stamp duty

Stamp duty is assessed on the VAT exclusive consideration, Sections 48 and 56 of the Stamp Duties Consolidation Act 1999 provide that the chargeable consideration for stamp duty purposes is to exclude any VAT chargeable under Section 2 of the VAT Act 1972 on the sale or lease.
Where VAT is included in the consideration, it should be deducted before calculating the charge or rate of stamp duty

Therefore
Buy a house for 499,000 (as an example)
Your paying VAT on this, but not on the site.
Site is €100,000 (Figure is on evaluation)
so €399,000 includes 13.5% vat
Less the vat is 451541 available for Stamp Duty, €4,515.41

Solicitor tried to tell me its €4,999 "

Bells 1978 · 15-01-2014 10:48pm

Anyone have any idea when phase 3 will be ready ??

Lillian123 · 15-01-2014 11:15pm

Hi All,

I have located the council meeting on the 13th of January which discusses the traveller programme and the proposed developments, including the Enniskerry road. Please see link:

http://www.dlrcoco.public-i.tv/core/portal/webcast_interactive/124629

At 31m18sec the discussion begins. It is very interesting to gain a better understanding of what the passing of the programme actually means; including that the council currently do not own the land at Enniskerry road an have several other sites which are likely to be developed before this one, if at all. But it does mean that it is a possibility at some point in the future.

Lillian123 · 15-01-2014 11:54pm

Another article in Irish times: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/plans-to-build-traveller-accommodation-in-south-dublin-move-forward-1.1655412

It states the following:

A spokeswoman for Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council said implementation would now begin of the draft Traveller accommodation programme 2014-2018 but “it is not possible at this stage to determine if all proposals will be delivered by 2018”.

She said finishing the programme by 2018 depended on many issues, which included planning and funding approval, planning and design, plus site ownership.

“Full estimated costs and funding requirements are not yet determined,” she added.

Jolisa94 · 16-01-2014 12:21am

Thanks for this Lilian.

Will finish listening to it tomorrow, but if the first part I heard is anything to go by, it looks like the plan is not going to come to fruition any time soon.

M2014 · 16-01-2014 1:21am

Jorg_East wrote: »

The halting site is indeed something to be concerned about, but maybe not so much: it is small (only 4 bays) and relatively far from Belmont. As far as I know the remaining land north to the halting site is designated for council housing. This one is bigger and much closer to Belmont. Isn't this a bigger concern in your view?

Yes I'm also worried about the larger area (closer to Belmont) designated for council housing, does anyone know if this is going ahead and if so when?

engineermike · 16-01-2014 6:51am

Hi,
Just stuck my head into a bit of this lengthy thread r/e Belmont. Putting aside most of the discussion into Travellers sites, price, living space, fees etc -as I can't speak to that stuff (although it would be of concern if I were buying there!).
Overall I wouldn't have any issue with the build quality, the first house we inspected up there - ok we had a bit of an issue getting the builder onside to our way of working (i.e. - Gas & Electric connected before we inspected the home), and in that instance the builder compensated the client our fee - because they got us out to early & the property wasn't ready to inspect.
After that first unit my staff have inspected another 7 units for various clients & everything has been attended to as per our reports.
All fairly run of the mill snags from the reports coming across my desk, and nothing that would lead me to think its 'Bad build quality'.
rgds
mike F

Jolisa94 · 16-01-2014 12:40pm

Not sure what the timeline is on the social housing, but did follow up on the planning permission for the educate togther school (notice on the railings on the Village Rd side of that site). Its not happening and they are going ahead with a site on Ballyogan Rd instead, which is a pity.

BTW there aready is social housing in the area, i think its the block of appartments in Belarmine near the roundabout - hasn't cause any issues so far.

Lillian123 · 16-01-2014 1:24pm

Thanks for the info on the Educate together school. I am less worried about the traveller site and social housing now, considering the issue across SCD. There is a site planned on the current St. John of Gods campus, which probably won't go ahead either due to cost of land. Have you received your contract Jolisa?

Jared thanks for the info on timelines, I just wanted to get an idea.

EngineerMike - thanks for your input on the build quality aswell.

Jolisa94 · 16-01-2014 1:46pm

Hi Lilian,

got the contract but it had the wrong floor plans, so waiting for an update.

Has anyone here signed yet?

Shedzafew · 16-01-2014 2:01pm

Hi Jolisa,

A family member of mine has signed also. Same thing happened with his contract where they sent out the floor plan for a two story house when theirs was 3 stories. It took them a day or two to come back with the correct floor plan.

The other thing that they had to get changed in the contract was to get a subject to loan clause included. The builder’s solicitors also gave an undertaking stating that all liability with the land registration and title issues remained with them until they were resolved. They also provided satisfactory documentation that the potential AIB charge on the land was no longer there.

Bells 1978 · 16-01-2014 2:32pm

Hi - people moved into phase one of the development and there is no way those properties would have closed unless everything was in order on both sides.
Anyone have any idea when phase three is ready?

Jolisa94 · 16-01-2014 2:39pm

Thanks Shedzafew,

I don't think it will be much longer for us either, once the contract is in order and the outstanding issues have be addressed to our satisfaction.

Wallander · 16-01-2014 6:46pm

Hi,

Our solicitor has been through the contract and it seems service charges are now the main sticking point.

Firstly because we have an estimate of over 600 when we too were told 100 at the viewings. Secondly because this will need to cover lighting and roads in the estate apparently. Looking after the plants is one thing but we don't really fancy having to resurface our street at our own expense in a few years time, has anyone else discovered/questioned this?

cmore123 · 16-01-2014 7:27pm

Do we have any idea when roads and lighting might be finished?

I got a call from Sherry Fitz today to say the contract is in the post to my solicitor.

Lillian123 · 16-01-2014 7:40pm

Wallander - €600 is alot of money. Over the lifetime of a standard mortgage of 35 years this equates to €21,000.

In relation to the lighting and roads, are developers not responsible for this until it is taken charge by the county council? If they are not it means the service charge could increase rapidly over a number of years which is concerning.

Wallander · 16-01-2014 7:49pm

Hi Lillian,

It sure is a lot...a lot more than 100 per year as we were led to believe too.

Our solicitor says it is in our contract that it will not be taken over by the council.

We've been told the charge will cover maintaining lighting, roads, footpaths, grass, kerbs, public liability insurance and ensuring parking compliance.

cmore123 · 16-01-2014 8:14pm

So no gritting of the roads, on a hilly site?

Bells 1978 · 16-01-2014 8:21pm

So the local authority is not taking charge of the development once completed? I sense a strong residents association coming on!

cmore123 · 16-01-2014 8:24pm

I'll be there, Bells, if I do go ahead with it all!

Wallander · 16-01-2014 9:46pm

That's my understanding Bells, although it all seems quite daft so I'm hoping I'm somehow mistaken!

Jolisa94 · 16-01-2014 10:16pm

Street lights

Passed by on my way home and noticed these are finally up.

Service charge

Never expected 100 to last, but 600 is very steep. The houses in both Belarmine and Aikens village pay around 300/350. The council stopped taken new developments into charge a while ago, so whatever services will be provided in the new development, I don't see that they could be significantly different from the neighbours.

Wallander · 16-01-2014 11:29pm

That's interesting to know Jolisa, thanks.

Is it the case then that Belarmine and Aikens are also non-council maintained when it comes to roads? If so you'd think we could get charges to a similar figure...

Jolisa94 · 17-01-2014 12:01am

Must admit that I'm not sure what the story with the roads is specifically, but I would imagine that if the council has not taken the developments in charge, that would include the roads, as well as the lighting, green areas etc..

Jolisa94 · 17-01-2014 12:53am

According to the dlrcoco website only main roads are taken in charge by the council, so in our case that would be village rd, not the roads inside the developments. This has been the case for some time now, so Belmont should be no different to Belarmine in that respect.

This is the link: http://www.dlrcoco.ie/aboutus/councildepartments/planning/findit/buildingcontrol/takinginchargeofestates/

cmore123 · 17-01-2014 1:35am

Maybe I'm just being naive here, and correct me if wrong; but - if other local developments are paying half what we will, would a residents association of us, say, be able to say to those looking after the site, "drop your price or we will engage a different management company"?

I have always lived in areas where the local authority does the lot, so this concept is new to me.

copacetic · 17-01-2014 1:45am

cmore123 wrote: »

Maybe I'm just being naive here, and correct me if wrong; but - if other local developments are paying half what we will, would a residents association of us, say, be able to say to those looking after the site, "drop your price or we will engage a different management company"?

I have always lived in areas where the local authority does the lot, so this concept is new to me.

Yep, the management fee isn't set by anyone except the residents themselves based on how much things cost. You guys get together, elect a committee and let them look for the best value in combination with a good agent. Bin collection etc can make quite a difference depending on how it is arranged etc.

cmore123 · 17-01-2014 1:48am

That's reassuring, copacetic, thank you. I suspect I'll be on that committee!

NinjaTruncs · 17-01-2014 2:07am

cmore123 wrote: »

Maybe I'm just being naive here, and correct me if wrong; but - if other local developments are paying half what we will, would a residents association of us, say, be able to say to those looking after the site, "drop your price or we will engage a different management company"?

I have always lived in areas where the local authority does the lot, so this concept is new to me.

It's not quite like that. Firstly you engage a management agent, not a management company. The management company is set up to run the development, there will be a number of directors in the MC, usually it is the developers who are the directors initially, and will continue to do so until they leave the site at which point a number of residents will be appointed as the directors.

Directors will set the approve the fees to be paid by each resident each year, however in my experience it is the Agent who works out the budget.

The Agents will have annual fees, in our development these are approx 18,000 pa. But there are other costs also, landscaping, maintenance and other things such as legal fees, there will also be the issue of arrears which mount up quickly, recovering these arrears has costs associated with them, this all adds up.

As i said previously the cost for houses in our development, just up the road is about 350 pa and others have said similar fees are charged elsewhere locally.

What is a little underhanded imo is that they have set the fees low for the first year knowing it's not a true reflection of the future costs, as an example, my first years fees were 1,200 (for an apartments) however this has now dropped to 800 pa and has been this amount for a while. they should have been set to at least 300.

Jolisa94 · 17-01-2014 5:48am

Here's a link to a property sold in Aikens village in the last year - service charge is 320 pa

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/72-grianan-fidh-aikens-village-sandyford-dublin-18/2085788

nakom · 17-01-2014 10:25am

The park within belmont is not in ready at this moment in time and it'll not be ready for a while. Shouldn't be the maintenance charges for the first year much lower considering that there are no or little green area to maintain right now?

Wallander · 17-01-2014 10:35am

Good point Nakom.

I haven't seen how much is in the contract but it could be useful to see a detailed budget of what our fees for the first couple of years are paying for exactly.

Jolisa94 · 17-01-2014 11:31am

Aikens Village has a park area too, so maintenance on that's included in the service charge of 320.

NinjaTruncs · 17-01-2014 11:38am

What he means is there is no park there yet so why would you be charged service fees on it yet. However to counter that there is no sinking fund there yet either, any surplus from the first year would go into that by default, so having a realistic fee for the first year would be beneficial.

copacetic · 17-01-2014 11:45am

Jolisa94 wrote: »

Aikens Village has a park area too, so that's included in the service charge.

Aiken's village is really 3 different seperatley managed areas surrounding Belmont, I.e Grianan fidh, clon brugh, cluain shee. The park areas are mostly outside of these and managed by the council. Which is why they aren't in as good shape in general.

Belmont is situated on a site that was to be have been part of aikens village development. I.e aikens village is the whole area from the enniskerry road down the village road to the stream which is the border between belarmine and aikens village. I'd imagine the address is

Belmont
Aikens Village
Sandyford
D18
?

Or at least that would be the address used if you wanted anyone to find Belmont.

Jolisa94 · 17-01-2014 12:03pm

The address on all the marketing materials is Stepaside. Which i find a little odd because, as Copacetic rightly points out, the rest of Aikens village is Sandyford.

Bet we're all going to have great fun if that is going to be the actual postal address, Blemont, Stepaside vs Belarmine, Stepaside..... The postal service in Aikens Village is already hit and miss, we're always getting other people's post.

NinjaTruncs: I get what Nakom meant, my point was that if Aikens village pay 320 for a level of service that is comparable to what Belmont will have, then 600 euro is hard to justify. But then again, if the parks are managed by the council, that casts a different light on things. I always assumed that the park area to the south of the stream was part of Aikens village and that the section to the north was part of Belarmine, but maybe I'm wrong. I'll ask the management company today.

copacetic · 17-01-2014 12:11pm

Jolisa94 wrote: »

The address on all the marketing materials is Stepaside. Which i find a little odd because, as Copacetic rightly points out, the rest of Aikens village is Sandyford.

Bet we're all going to have great fun if that is going to be the actual postal address, Blemont, Stepaside vs Belarmine, Stepaside..... The postal service in Aikens Village is already hit and miss, we're always getting other people's post.

NinjaTrunc: I get what Nakom meant, my point was that if Aikens village pay 320 for a level of service that is comparable to what Belmont will have, then 600 euro is hard to justify. But then again, if the parks are managed by the council, that casts a different light on things. I always assumed that the park area to the south of the stream was part of Aikens village and that the section to the north was part of Belarmine, but maybe I'm wrong. I'll ask the management company today.

I think the belarmine side is still managed by their management company. Aikens village side isn't, that's why aikens village side has no lighting and the grass was allowed go uncut for 5 months this year getting to hip height! (As did grass on luas shortcut). Looked quite nice though so I don't think anyone was too bothered.

Jolisa94 · 17-01-2014 12:28pm

Didn’t notice!!! To be honest our interest in the place waned as our search for a new house meant we weren’t paying too much attention to an area we thought we would be leaving soon. But now that we’re in the process of buying the house in Belmont and we’ll be staying on indefinitely, its game on again.

Lillian123 · 17-01-2014 12:52pm

Hi Everyone,

Can anyone who has received their contract, post details of how it says the service charge is calculated just for our information?

Thanks!

Jolisa94 · 17-01-2014 1:16pm

Our contract didn't specify, there was just a generic referecne to 'service charge' on page 14, but no detail. I asked the solicitor to clarify this point, so hope to have an answer soon.

New home sale in Belmont, Stepaside, Dublin 18

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