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Vendor had a list of engineers that they “don't want used”

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  • 16-01-2020 3:03pm
    #1
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,228 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    A new one for ye. Sale agreed in late December. We have an engineer that is renowned for being thorough.

    EA just informed us that the vendors have a list of engineers that they don’t want to carry out the survey.

    Our guy is on that list so it’s unlikely they will want him to do the survey and they may now pull out.

    Comments?


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,532 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    I'd 1st of all seek some information as to why they are seeking to restrict the purchaser in whom they chose to conduct a survey.
    It strikes me as very odd.

    Then barring a satisfactory answer I'd walk.
    A house purchase is a massive commitment, and one that a purchaser is fully entitled to ensure they enter into with as much detail as possible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭charlietheminxx


    Oooh that's a weird one, I haven't come across it before. Surely you should be allowed to have any surveyor you like? You're hiring them and paying them to provide a service for you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,742 ✭✭✭C3PO


    Interesting - I wonder how the Vendor compiled the list? Has the house been on the market for a long time or maybe the EA supplied it?
    You need to decide whether it’s worth losing the house over but it would ring alarm bells for me!


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,228 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    Oooh that's a weird one, I haven't come across it before. Surely you should be allowed to have any surveyor you like? You're hiring them and paying them to provide a service for you.

    He’s known to be very picky. Will spend 4-5 hours on a property and the reports are very thorough. Will fail a larger percentage than the average.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,450 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Pretty outrageous. Typical of estate agent behaviour though. Would set alarm bells off for me anyway - what do they not want discovered?

    At the end of the day, it's pre-contract so they can stipulate what they want. But by the same token, just because your engineer produces a list of issues it doesn't mean that the vendor has to act on them. Its for your own peace of mind.

    So, does Vendor know of issue which would likely scupper the sale if discovered/ result in purchase price being reduced, and they want to avoid wasting time by pulling the sale now instead?

    Or, is Estate Agent just acting the billy big bo**ix and trying to call the shots and badly advising his/ her client? You could call their bluff and ask them to take vendors' direct instructions.

    Bypass the Estate Agent by getting your solicitor to write directly to Vendors' solicitor - that should clarify who's calling the shots.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,532 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    He’s known to be very picky. Will spend 4-5 hours on a property and the reports are very thorough. Will fail a larger percentage than the average.

    It's not a pass/fail equation though.

    It is about receiving as detailed a report as possible.
    One that outlines the current state of the property and any defect or potential defect that may emerge in the near to medium term for the purchaser.

    I'd want as detailed an inspection as possible, before committing to a large and unwarrantied purchase of a house.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,228 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    C3PO wrote: »
    Interesting - I wonder how the Vendor compiled the list? Has the house been on the market for a long time or maybe the EA supplied it?
    You need to decide whether it’s worth losing the house over but it would ring alarm bells for me!

    The estate agent says it’s the vendors list. The house has been on the market for over a year. Was up for 300k and reduced about 4 times since. Has also had a few EA over the last year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,450 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    banie01 wrote: »
    I'd 1st of all seek some information as to why they are seeking to restrict the purchaser in whom they chose to conduct a survey.
    It strikes me as very odd.

    Then barring a satisfactory answer I'd walk.
    A house purchase is a massive commitment, and one that a purchaser is fully entitled to ensure they enter into with as much detail as possible.

    Agreed. Not sure how comfortable I'd be in a house that the Vendors' didn't want me to thoroughly inspect. You'd constantly be waiting for something to fail/ issue to arise.

    Unless the property has been on the market numerous times it's unlikely the vendors have such detailed knowledge of which engineers are thorough. Definitely sounds like something being driven by EA from his/ her experience. They probably think they're doing a great job for their client by speeding up the process.

    To avoid wasting time I'd get solicitor to contact directly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,364 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    He’s known to be very picky. Will spend 4-5 hours on a property and the reports are very thorough. Will fail a larger percentage than the average.

    You can't fail a report on a house it is simply an engineers opinion. Not sure how they can legally tell you who to use and by the same logic they can't tell you who not to use.

    I would simply ignore it. It sounds like the enginer did a survey before or the estate agent as some issues. Let the engineer that such a list exists and he is on it. He may be very interested. I know I would and then be taking legal action.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,228 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    Paddigol wrote: »
    Agreed. Not sure how comfortable I'd be in a house that the Vendors' didn't want me to thoroughly inspect. You'd constantly be waiting for something to fail/ issue to arise.

    Unless the property has been on the market numerous times it's unlikely the vendors have such detailed knowledge of which engineers are thorough. Definitely sounds like something being driven by EA from his/ her experience. They probably think they're doing a great job for their client by speeding up the process.

    To avoid wasting time I'd get solicitor to contact directly.

    We have the engineer booked for Tuesday so the the EA is going to do nothing slow everything down by pressurising us to change engineer.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 78,287 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Ask your guy and a few others how much it would cost to survey that property.

    Or straight out, ask your guy would he have a survey of that property done already.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    It definitely sounds like the vendors know that these engineers will find something dodgy.

    You should ask the EA if any other potential purchasers pulled out after having a survey done.

    The other possibility is that the vendor is involved in the construction industry, has fallen out with a few engineers and doesn't want them on the property.

    In the latter case though, someone who has made a lot of enemies is undoubtedly an asshole and will be incredibly difficult to deal with through a house purchase.

    As said above, if you're not happy with their explanation for having a "blacklist" of engineers, then I'd walk away.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,450 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    We have the engineer booked for Tuesday so the the EA is going to do nothing slow everything down by pressurising us to change engineer.

    Well, what I mean is they probably see it as better to pull the sale to you now if you don't find someone new and go back to market rather than proceed and spend a few months dealing with your engineer's report findings and requirements for X Y and Z to be dealt with. Maybe there's a planning issue they don't want discovered/ the hassle of having to deal with retention application etc. etc. If contracts are signed it's much harder for Vendor's to get out and they'll have to deal with you on report findings. Not necessarily agree to act, but the correspondence process would definitely drag the conveyance out a bit.

    So maybe they would prefer to wait a few weeks (although who knows when the next acceptable offer will come in) and go with a more straightforward sale. It's all a bit of a gamble on their part though - will the market drop further etc etc.

    Bottom line, you need clarity as to what the reasoning is. You need to be comfortable that the property you're buying has no ghosts in the closet. There's no way of guaranteeing that, but a thorough engineer is an excellent step.


  • Administrators Posts: 53,439 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Tell them you're not changing engineers. Pull out if they don't accept this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Doop


    Theres no such thing as pressure from the EA.. just ignore him, you're not his client nor he yours. You choose what ever engineer/surveyor you want its your prerogative, you choose, you pay, they facilitate access. End of story. I would of laughed if the agent said that to me. The point here is you get independent advice.

    This is like you going to the vendor and saying you want him to get a different EA, it makes no sense!


  • Administrators Posts: 53,439 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I doubt it's the EA to be honest, more likely an awkward vendor.

    The EA likely feels like an idiot even having to bring it up. They know how it's supposed to work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,364 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    awec wrote: »
    I doubt it's the EA to be honest, more likely an awkward vendor.

    The EA likely feels like an idiot even having to bring it up. They know how it's supposed to work.

    The vendor is the estate agent the owner is totally different. The idea that the owner would know so many engineers and want to exclude them is the most unlikely scenario. Most likely the estate agent who would know who would know them and want to avoid them from previous experience.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭Purgative


    Curious but does the seller own a number of properties? Or have all of the engineers on the list, inspected this property before?


    Just curious, I've moved (bought and sold) four times in my life, all in the UK. It seemed like a sort of high average at the time, but I had no awareness of problem surveyors or engineers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭un5byh7sqpd2x0


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    The vendor is the estate agent the owner is totally different. The idea that the owner would know so many engineers and want to exclude them is the most unlikely scenario. Most likely the estate agent who would know who would know them and want to avoid them from previous experience.

    The vendor is not the estate agent.


  • Administrators Posts: 53,439 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    The vendor is the estate agent the owner is totally different. The idea that the owner would know so many engineers and want to exclude them is the most unlikely scenario. Most likely the estate agent who would know who would know them and want to avoid them from previous experience.

    The vendor is the person selling the house. Not the estate agent.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭TuringBot47


    That really sounds like a few engineers have been to that house and found issues.
    It would be a HUGE red flag to me.

    Maybe ask your engineer have they ever surveyed that property before?


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,228 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    awec wrote: »
    The vendor is the person selling the house. Not the estate agent.

    Update. There are three engineers on the list. The EA asked the vendor for a reason why they said no and he was told he wasn’t getting one.

    The EA is surprised this is an issue for me as there are lots of other engineers I could choose. I asked if any engineer reports have been done and he said no.

    He did also say they may reconsider not allowing him and will let me know tomorrow.

    I don’t get it. My spider senses are tingling.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,523 ✭✭✭✭yabadabado


    Book the engineer and ignore the EA.

    If they dont like that ,walk away.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,228 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    yabadabado wrote: »
    Book the engineer and ignore the EA.

    If they dont like that ,walk away.

    The engineer is booked for Tuesday.


  • Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭TuringBot47


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    I asked if any engineer reports have been done and he said no.

    You do know that estate agents lie don't you ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,450 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Doop wrote: »
    Theres no such thing as pressure from the EA.. just ignore him, you're not his client nor he yours. You choose what ever engineer/surveyor you want its your prerogative, you choose, you pay, they facilitate access. End of story. I would of laughed if the agent said that to me. The point here is you get independent advice.

    This is like you going to the vendor and saying you want him to get a different EA, it makes no sense!

    Except that the Vendor owns the house - he/ she doesn't have to give access to anyone. No contract signed - no obligations. Even with a contract signed, there's not much a potential Purchaser can do regards getting access when/ how they feel like it.

    The whole thing in this case is very odd.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Doop


    Paddigol wrote: »
    Except that the Vendor owns the house - he/ she doesn't have to give access to anyone. No contract signed - no obligations. Even with a contract signed, there's not much a potential Purchaser can do regards getting access when/ how they feel like it.

    The whole thing in this case is very odd.

    When I say 'they' i include the vendor

    They either want to sell the house or they dont... playing silly beggers is all theyre doin. Dont dance to their tune.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    I heard something similar when a friend was selling about two years ago. There was lots of interest & the local EA agreed a sale above the asking price but it took months to close.
    There was nothing wrong with the house but the surveyor said the house was overpriced so the bank wouldn't give the buyers the loan they needed. The buyers really wanted the house so they got a different surveyor. Everyone happy.
    I never heard that before but maybe it happened the seller & they know the three on the list won't stop the sale.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,431 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    That really sounds like a few engineers have been to that house and found issues.
    It would be a HUGE red flag to me.

    Maybe ask your engineer have they ever surveyed that property before?

    That's actually the best advice so far ,and tells more than anything else ...
    If he's inspected it previously ,he'll probably tell you straight what the result was , if he knows the current owner in some capacity he'll probably tell you that too...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,534 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I heard something similar when a friend was selling about two years ago. There was lots of interest & the local EA agreed a sale above the asking price but it took months to close.
    There was nothing wrong with the house but the surveyor said the house was overpriced so the bank wouldn't give the buyers the loan they needed. The buyers really wanted the house so they got a different surveyor. Everyone happy.
    I never heard that before but maybe it happened the seller & they know the three on the list won't stop the sale.

    The buyers surveyor doesn't value the house.
    The report is for the buyers eyes and doesn't go near the bank.


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