Vendor had a list of engineers that they “don't want used”

FutureGuy

A new one for ye. Sale agreed in late December. We have an engineer that is renowned for being thorough.

EA just informed us that the vendors have a list of engineers that they don’t want to carry out the survey.

Our guy is on that list so it’s unlikely they will want him to do the survey and they may now pull out.

Comments?

banie01

I'd 1st of all seek some information as to why they are seeking to restrict the purchaser in whom they chose to conduct a survey.
It strikes me as very odd.

Then barring a satisfactory answer I'd walk.
A house purchase is a massive commitment, and one that a purchaser is fully entitled to ensure they enter into with as much detail as possible.

charlietheminxx

Oooh that's a weird one, I haven't come across it before. Surely you should be allowed to have any surveyor you like? You're hiring them and paying them to provide a service for you.

C3PO

Interesting - I wonder how the Vendor compiled the list? Has the house been on the market for a long time or maybe the EA supplied it?
You need to decide whether it’s worth losing the house over but it would ring alarm bells for me!

FutureGuy

charlietheminxx wrote: »

Oooh that's a weird one, I haven't come across it before. Surely you should be allowed to have any surveyor you like? You're hiring them and paying them to provide a service for you.

He’s known to be very picky. Will spend 4-5 hours on a property and the reports are very thorough. Will fail a larger percentage than the average.

Paddigol

Pretty outrageous. Typical of estate agent behaviour though. Would set alarm bells off for me anyway - what do they not want discovered?

At the end of the day, it's pre-contract so they can stipulate what they want. But by the same token, just because your engineer produces a list of issues it doesn't mean that the vendor has to act on them. Its for your own peace of mind.

So, does Vendor know of issue which would likely scupper the sale if discovered/ result in purchase price being reduced, and they want to avoid wasting time by pulling the sale now instead?

Or, is Estate Agent just acting the billy big bo**ix and trying to call the shots and badly advising his/ her client? You could call their bluff and ask them to take vendors' direct instructions.

Bypass the Estate Agent by getting your solicitor to write directly to Vendors' solicitor - that should clarify who's calling the shots.

banie01

FutureGuy wrote: »

He’s known to be very picky. Will spend 4-5 hours on a property and the reports are very thorough. Will fail a larger percentage than the average.

It's not a pass/fail equation though.

It is about receiving as detailed a report as possible.
One that outlines the current state of the property and any defect or potential defect that may emerge in the near to medium term for the purchaser.

I'd want as detailed an inspection as possible, before committing to a large and unwarrantied purchase of a house.

FutureGuy

C3PO wrote: »

Interesting - I wonder how the Vendor compiled the list? Has the house been on the market for a long time or maybe the EA supplied it?
You need to decide whether it’s worth losing the house over but it would ring alarm bells for me!

The estate agent says it’s the vendors list. The house has been on the market for over a year. Was up for 300k and reduced about 4 times since. Has also had a few EA over the last year.

Paddigol

banie01 wrote: »

I'd 1st of all seek some information as to why they are seeking to restrict the purchaser in whom they chose to conduct a survey.
It strikes me as very odd.

Then barring a satisfactory answer I'd walk.
A house purchase is a massive commitment, and one that a purchaser is fully entitled to ensure they enter into with as much detail as possible.

Agreed. Not sure how comfortable I'd be in a house that the Vendors' didn't want me to thoroughly inspect. You'd constantly be waiting for something to fail/ issue to arise.

Unless the property has been on the market numerous times it's unlikely the vendors have such detailed knowledge of which engineers are thorough. Definitely sounds like something being driven by EA from his/ her experience. They probably think they're doing a great job for their client by speeding up the process.

To avoid wasting time I'd get solicitor to contact directly.

Ray Palmer

FutureGuy wrote: »

He’s known to be very picky. Will spend 4-5 hours on a property and the reports are very thorough. Will fail a larger percentage than the average.

You can't fail a report on a house it is simply an engineers opinion. Not sure how they can legally tell you who to use and by the same logic they can't tell you who not to use.

I would simply ignore it. It sounds like the enginer did a survey before or the estate agent as some issues. Let the engineer that such a list exists and he is on it. He may be very interested. I know I would and then be taking legal action.

FutureGuy

Paddigol wrote: »

Agreed. Not sure how comfortable I'd be in a house that the Vendors' didn't want me to thoroughly inspect. You'd constantly be waiting for something to fail/ issue to arise.

Unless the property has been on the market numerous times it's unlikely the vendors have such detailed knowledge of which engineers are thorough. Definitely sounds like something being driven by EA from his/ her experience. They probably think they're doing a great job for their client by speeding up the process.

To avoid wasting time I'd get solicitor to contact directly.

We have the engineer booked for Tuesday so the the EA is going to do nothing slow everything down by pressurising us to change engineer.

Victor

Ask your guy and a few others how much it would cost to survey that property.

Or straight out, ask your guy would he have a survey of that property done already.

seamus

It definitely sounds like the vendors know that these engineers will find something dodgy.

You should ask the EA if any other potential purchasers pulled out after having a survey done.

The other possibility is that the vendor is involved in the construction industry, has fallen out with a few engineers and doesn't want them on the property.

In the latter case though, someone who has made a lot of enemies is undoubtedly an asshole and will be incredibly difficult to deal with through a house purchase.

As said above, if you're not happy with their explanation for having a "blacklist" of engineers, then I'd walk away.

Paddigol

FutureGuy wrote: »

We have the engineer booked for Tuesday so the the EA is going to do nothing slow everything down by pressurising us to change engineer.

Well, what I mean is they probably see it as better to pull the sale to you now if you don't find someone new and go back to market rather than proceed and spend a few months dealing with your engineer's report findings and requirements for X Y and Z to be dealt with. Maybe there's a planning issue they don't want discovered/ the hassle of having to deal with retention application etc. etc. If contracts are signed it's much harder for Vendor's to get out and they'll have to deal with you on report findings. Not necessarily agree to act, but the correspondence process would definitely drag the conveyance out a bit.

So maybe they would prefer to wait a few weeks (although who knows when the next acceptable offer will come in) and go with a more straightforward sale. It's all a bit of a gamble on their part though - will the market drop further etc etc.

Bottom line, you need clarity as to what the reasoning is. You need to be comfortable that the property you're buying has no ghosts in the closet. There's no way of guaranteeing that, but a thorough engineer is an excellent step.

awec

Tell them you're not changing engineers. Pull out if they don't accept this.

Doop

Theres no such thing as pressure from the EA.. just ignore him, you're not his client nor he yours. You choose what ever engineer/surveyor you want its your prerogative, you choose, you pay, they facilitate access. End of story. I would of laughed if the agent said that to me. The point here is you get independent advice.

This is like you going to the vendor and saying you want him to get a different EA, it makes no sense!

awec

I doubt it's the EA to be honest, more likely an awkward vendor.

The EA likely feels like an idiot even having to bring it up. They know how it's supposed to work.

Ray Palmer

awec wrote: »

I doubt it's the EA to be honest, more likely an awkward vendor.

The EA likely feels like an idiot even having to bring it up. They know how it's supposed to work.

The vendor is the estate agent the owner is totally different. The idea that the owner would know so many engineers and want to exclude them is the most unlikely scenario. Most likely the estate agent who would know who would know them and want to avoid them from previous experience.

Purgative

Curious but does the seller own a number of properties? Or have all of the engineers on the list, inspected this property before?


Just curious, I've moved (bought and sold) four times in my life, all in the UK. It seemed like a sort of high average at the time, but I had no awareness of problem surveyors or engineers.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The vendor is the estate agent the owner is totally different. The idea that the owner would know so many engineers and want to exclude them is the most unlikely scenario. Most likely the estate agent who would know who would know them and want to avoid them from previous experience.

The vendor is not the estate agent.

awec

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The vendor is the estate agent the owner is totally different. The idea that the owner would know so many engineers and want to exclude them is the most unlikely scenario. Most likely the estate agent who would know who would know them and want to avoid them from previous experience.

The vendor is the person selling the house. Not the estate agent.

TuringBot47

That really sounds like a few engineers have been to that house and found issues.
It would be a HUGE red flag to me.

Maybe ask your engineer have they ever surveyed that property before?

FutureGuy

awec wrote: »

The vendor is the person selling the house. Not the estate agent.

Update. There are three engineers on the list. The EA asked the vendor for a reason why they said no and he was told he wasn’t getting one.

The EA is surprised this is an issue for me as there are lots of other engineers I could choose. I asked if any engineer reports have been done and he said no.

He did also say they may reconsider not allowing him and will let me know tomorrow.

I don’t get it. My spider senses are tingling.

yabadabado

Book the engineer and ignore the EA.

If they dont like that ,walk away.

FutureGuy

yabadabado wrote: »

Book the engineer and ignore the EA.

If they dont like that ,walk away.

The engineer is booked for Tuesday.

TuringBot47

FutureGuy wrote: »

I asked if any engineer reports have been done and he said no.

You do know that estate agents lie don't you ?

Paddigol

Doop wrote: »

Theres no such thing as pressure from the EA.. just ignore him, you're not his client nor he yours. You choose what ever engineer/surveyor you want its your prerogative, you choose, you pay, they facilitate access. End of story. I would of laughed if the agent said that to me. The point here is you get independent advice.

This is like you going to the vendor and saying you want him to get a different EA, it makes no sense!

Except that the Vendor owns the house - he/ she doesn't have to give access to anyone. No contract signed - no obligations. Even with a contract signed, there's not much a potential Purchaser can do regards getting access when/ how they feel like it.

The whole thing in this case is very odd.

Doop

Paddigol wrote: »

Except that the Vendor owns the house - he/ she doesn't have to give access to anyone. No contract signed - no obligations. Even with a contract signed, there's not much a potential Purchaser can do regards getting access when/ how they feel like it.

The whole thing in this case is very odd.

When I say 'they' i include the vendor

They either want to sell the house or they dont... playing silly beggers is all theyre doin. Dont dance to their tune.

mrslancaster

I heard something similar when a friend was selling about two years ago. There was lots of interest & the local EA agreed a sale above the asking price but it took months to close.
There was nothing wrong with the house but the surveyor said the house was overpriced so the bank wouldn't give the buyers the loan they needed. The buyers really wanted the house so they got a different surveyor. Everyone happy.
I never heard that before but maybe it happened the seller & they know the three on the list won't stop the sale.

Markcheese

TuringBot47 wrote: »

That really sounds like a few engineers have been to that house and found issues.
It would be a HUGE red flag to me.

Maybe ask your engineer have they ever surveyed that property before?

That's actually the best advice so far ,and tells more than anything else ...
If he's inspected it previously ,he'll probably tell you straight what the result was , if he knows the current owner in some capacity he'll probably tell you that too...

Gumbo

mrslancaster wrote: »

I heard something similar when a friend was selling about two years ago. There was lots of interest & the local EA agreed a sale above the asking price but it took months to close.
There was nothing wrong with the house but the surveyor said the house was overpriced so the bank wouldn't give the buyers the loan they needed. The buyers really wanted the house so they got a different surveyor. Everyone happy.
I never heard that before but maybe it happened the seller & they know the three on the list won't stop the sale.

The buyers surveyor doesn't value the house.
The report is for the buyers eyes and doesn't go near the bank.

Doop

mrslancaster wrote: »

I heard something similar when a friend was selling about two years ago. There was lots of interest & the local EA agreed a sale above the asking price but it took months to close.
There was nothing wrong with the house but the surveyor said the house was overpriced so the bank wouldn't give the buyers the loan they needed. The buyers really wanted the house so they got a different surveyor. Everyone happy.
I never heard that before but maybe it happened the seller & they know the three on the list won't stop the sale.

You're mixing up the valuation report and the survey report. Separate reports done by separate people.

The11Duff

Giving a list of engineers that they don't want to survey the house, would start ringing alarm bells straight away. Old saying buyer beware

LuckyLloyd

awec wrote: »

Tell them you're not changing engineers. Pull out if they don't accept this.

That’s the long and the short of it, up to them.

SozBbz

Sounds to me like a major red flag - no way would I accept being told who could and couldnt give me their professional opinion.

I know going sale agreed, especially if its the first time often means you get excited and emotionally invested - buying a home is a huge thing, but this is just so weird and not at all in a good way.

I'd be inclined to think that no EA would be so stupid as to suggest this so it must be coming from the vendor.

I'd say to them, you either allow my choice of engineer access on the date specified or I'd like my deposit returned ASAP. Don't be silly just because you've gotten attached to the idea of buying this house. There will be other houses. Let the cards fall as they may.

Steer55

Very very odd scenario, I would be running a mile.

givyjoe

Paddigol wrote: »

Pretty outrageous. Typical of estate agent behaviour though. Would set alarm bells off for me anyway - what do they not want discovered?

At the end of the day, it's pre-contract so they can stipulate what they want. But by the same token, just because your engineer produces a list of issues it doesn't mean that the vendor has to act on them. Its for your own peace of mind.

So, does Vendor know of issue which would likely scupper the sale if discovered/ result in purchase price being reduced, and they want to avoid wasting time by pulling the sale now instead?

Or, is Estate Agent just acting the billy big bo**ix and trying to call the shots and badly advising his/ her client? You could call their bluff and ask them to take vendors' direct instructions.

Bypass the Estate Agent by getting your solicitor to write directly to Vendors' solicitor - that should clarify who's calling the shots.

Seems to be the sellers request, not the Estate Agent. If it was an estate agent with the problem, can only imagine it's because the engineers on that list have failed previous properties.

AndrewJRenko

Doop wrote: »

This is like you going to the vendor and saying you want him to get a different EA, it makes no sense!

That's actually a great response. Tell the EA that you have a list of EAs that you don't want to use and he's on that list, so ask him when the new EA will be in place.

Wildly Boaring

We had a survey done by one bidder prior to their bid. He found "cracks possibly caused by shrinkage or settlement"

EA advice was to ignore and ensure he did no survey on the house for whomever won the bidding.

Didn't take his advice and did the opposite. Shared that sentence with the bidders.

But if we took thats EAs advice we could have had a few engineers "banned"

What I'm saying OP is that it's quite likely the house has issues

mrslancaster

kceire wrote: »

The buyers surveyor doesn't value the house.
The report is for the buyers eyes and doesn't go near the bank.

thanks, When I heard it first, I thought things had changed a lot from when we bought but I probably misunderstood.:(

L1011

I can't think of any logical reason for this that isn't also an automatic reason for you to back out.

spaceHopper

mrslancaster wrote: »

thanks, When I heard it first, I thought things had changed a lot from when we bought but I probably misunderstood.:(

That's not strictly true, your solicitor has to sign that the property is mortgage-able and if they know of something which is going to cost 30 grand to fix you could run into issues.

Tell the EA now that they have raised the objection you have no choice you have to use that engineer come what may. Ask them do they still what to accept your offer.

the_syco

FutureGuy wrote: »

EA just informed us that the vendors have a list of engineers that they don’t want to carry out the survey.

Translation; seller has had multiple possible buyers walk away after said engineers found sh|t wrong with the house, and wish for you to try one that hasn't :pac:

Perhaps talk to the guy that you've used in the past, and offer him 50% of the usual cost to see the report that he did already?

10-10-20

the_syco wrote: »

Translation; seller has had multiple possible buyers walk away after said engineers found sh|t wrong with the house, and wish for you to try one that hasn't :pac:

This.
I've been there, still wearing the tattoo.
Seller was hiding faults in the build. Moved 'personal items' into an affected room and prevented the engineer from entering (for 'privacy' reasons). Turns out we bought a crock with 'features'. Engineer highlighted these concerns in his report, but we still thought better of his analysis and bought. Don't.

trigger26

10-10-20 wrote: »

This.
I've been there, still wearing the tattoo.
Seller was hiding faults in the build. Moved 'personal items' into an affected room and prevented the engineer from entering (for 'privacy' reasons). Turns out we bought a crock with 'features'. Engineer highlighted these concerns in his report, but we still thought better of his analysis and bought. Don't.

Good advice. At signing stage at the mo on house, there’s an issue with some unclaimed land/border and we suggested holding x amount for 2 years till they get that sorted. After a delay they’ve come back saying they want unlimited time to sort and 1/2 x amount held. Bizarre altogether and got us thinking something up

trigger26

10-10-20 wrote: »

This.
I've been there, still wearing the tattoo.
Seller was hiding faults in the build. Moved 'personal items' into an affected room and prevented the engineer from entering (for 'privacy' reasons). Turns out we bought a crock with 'features'. Engineer highlighted these concerns in his report, but we still thought better of his analysis and bought. Don't.

Good advice. At signing stage at the mo on buying house, there’s an issue with some unclaimed land/border and we suggested holding x amount for 2 years till they get that sorted. After a delay they’ve come back saying they want unlimited time to sort and 1/2 x amount held. Bizarre altogether and got us thinking something up

Petedakota

Jaykers, i would walk away, i know it is hard to do, a lot of time effort etc, but no way would i buy after that. plus the border issue... once you buy it is now your issue.

Life is too short.

trigger26

That's what we've done now, they've rejected a time frame on border issue through solicitor so that's it now. It is hard to walk away but this is a huge purchase, I suspect they see bright evenings and think they can get better price or there is a known issue with border/land registration part. Not our problem to fix.

TuringBot47

It's also quite possible that when previous surveyors found issues with the house that the sellers have since tried to cheaply patch or hide the issue.
Especially if it was on the market for a year? Thought I read that here?

So a new surveyor might not see whatever it was, eg. damp, cracks etc.
They could be cosmetically hidden now, but an engineer who surveyed the house before would know what to look for and see if they actually fixed the issue properly.

Definite red flag.
It may or may not be that bad, maybe the sellers have a price in their head for what to accept, and certain survey results would give the bidder ammunition to reduce the price.

limnam

based on the bizareness of their behavior i'd just walk away. Buying a house is difficult enough without a difficult vendor/ea

The only reason they'd have a "list" imo is it's a list that's found problems previously.

Or it's the EA's list and claiming it's the vendor. Either way it's odd and i wouldn't go near it

ZX7R

EA could have an agreement with a certain engineer is commission.
Sounds strange as it's on the buyer to get a report done.