can you get cattle slaughtered?

Bass Reeves · 22-11-2019 11:08am

wrangler wrote: »

What are you saying, is it dependent on whether the processor is prepared to show any good will or not, some of the processors are calling the protesters ex-customers.
Southern farmers seem to be getting on better for some reason, backlog has to be reducing at this stage.

Some of the lads that took cattle in during the picket are nearly treated ex customers now

wrangler · 22-11-2019 11:51am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Some of the lads that took cattle in during the picket are nearly treated ex customers now

Two farmers here got them in within a week, one to each local factory.
A neighbour had €1500 between buying and selling 8 hobby cattle for summer grazing, I thought it was alright for the year that was in it, he kept them the bare seven mths

Waternotsoda · 22-11-2019 11:56am

Keep Sluicing

What area are you in? Which processors?

Thanks. I may be willing to travel with cattle as I have to work on shed.

DukeCaboom · 22-11-2019 12:02pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Some of the lads that took cattle in during the picket are nearly treated ex customers now

In my experience down here it's actually the opposite of what your saying but that's just my experience so I can't speak for anyone else.

Keep Sluicing · 22-11-2019 12:32pm

Waternotsoda wrote: »

Keep Sluicing

What area are you in? Which processors?

Thanks. I may be willing to travel with cattle as I have to work on shed.

Im in West Cork but all our cattle (and my uncles) go to either Kepak Watergrasshill or Dawn Charleville.

Bass Reeves · 22-11-2019 1:01pm

DukeCaboom wrote: »

In my experience down here it's actually the opposite of what your saying but that's just my experience so I can't speak for anyone else.

If the factory us killing for China they will not not kill cattle from restricted herds or herds that hhat had TB in last 6 months until after they have killed China cattle. Know of one lad that is struggling to kill cattle over the last 2-3 weeks. Yes he is getting them killed but it always late in the day it seems.

That is my understanding anyway. It could be a huge issue fir lads killing cows down the line if China contract continued to have good demand over the nest 6+ months. Lads may have to stay away from cows. This issue has only risen over the last few weeks as killing for China starred to accelerate

DukeCaboom · 22-11-2019 9:00pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If the factory us killing for China they will not not kill cattle from restricted herds or herds that hhat had TB in last 6 months until after they have killed China cattle. Know of one lad that is struggling to kill cattle over the last 2-3 weeks. Yes he is getting them killed but it always late in the day it seems.

That is my understanding anyway. It could be a huge issue fir lads killing cows down the line if China contract continued to have good demand over the nest 6+ months. Lads may have to stay away from cows. This issue has only risen over the last few weeks as killing for China starred to accelerate

Ya I'd usually drop them in at night this time of year but kicked back till about ten any morning now.

Bass Reeves · 22-11-2019 9:06pm

DukeCaboom wrote: »

Ya I'd usually drop them in at night this time of year but kicked back till about ten any morning now.

Are you restricted or had you failed a testwithin the last 6 months.

DukeCaboom · 22-11-2019 9:11pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Are you restricted or had you failed a testwithin the last 6 months.

Yes

Bass Reeves · 22-11-2019 9:15pm

Jjameson wrote: »

The reason for under 30 month beef is buoyant sales in uk retailers.
China is only taking offal and low value carcass trim. Uruguay Brazil and New Zealand are better placed to benefit from the increased demand for primal cuts or even diced and minced beef.
270000 tonnes of beef went to the uk last year. It will tally same this year perhaps.
China will be at its very best to take 10000 tonnes of low value.
It is good news don’t get me wrong but the notion that guys seem to have about China being a high value market is ludicrous. They are just paying better than pet food.

China takes low value cuts. I saw a figure that at time 55% of a carcass has to be minced/diced at times. It demand for low value cuts that will drive prices believe it or not. Steaks will always sell themselves. China will have different markets just like ourselves. and they too have higher end discerning customers as well. If the demand for fore quarter meat increases, McDonald's et all will all have to pay more for the humble burger. This in turn makes cheaper steak more competitive. Resturants in general have replaced a lot of red meat didhes with the humble burger, gone are the lamb chop and the small cheap steak off the menu. If mince get dearer everything gets dearer. Processors have no problem shifting steaking cuts it moving the rest where the real profit could be.

Bass Reeves · 22-11-2019 9:19pm

DukeCaboom wrote: »

Yes

That was the point I was making. Rumour is that U30 month cattle from unrestricted herds will see the first price rise. People with these cattle will also have no issue killing overage stock as they can go up the line with underage. Restricted cattle may well be treated the same as over 30 month during the BSE crisis. Last to be killed and beef segregated in the cold store's.

DukeCaboom · 22-11-2019 9:27pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

That was the point I was making. Rumour is that U30 month cattle from unrestricted herds will see the first price rise. People with these cattle will also have no issue killing overage stock as they can go up the line with underage. Restricted cattle may well be treated the same as over 30 month during the BSE crisis. Last to be killed and beef segregated in the cold store's.

On a plus size I remember in about 2002 trying to gather a load of bullocks one day for kildare that could not be from Clare, kerry, Cork and maybe Galway....

Things haven't got that bad yet

aphextwit · 22-11-2019 9:55pm

Still cannot get bullocks slaughtered. Last of my beef cattle being converted to over 30 months. Thank you dawn.

Bass Reeves · 22-11-2019 10:43pm

Jjameson wrote: »

Under 30 month Minced and diced beef is the easiest sold on European and uk markets. What abp is selling the Chinese in the last few months is offal and what they now term as 4th quarter.

WTF then for the last two weeks are are all china approved factories changing there supply practices. Because they are obiviously going supplying more than just offal to the Chinese. Why are processors splitting the kill into non restricted and restricted cattle kills. Because it is not just offal that will be going to China. Processors are obiviously after getting contracts for other beef cuts.

If China starts taking cheaper beef cuts it will increase the price of beef going for mince and dicing.

Waternotsoda · 01-12-2019 3:06pm

Anyone getting overage cattle killed. I got 6 overage aa to go. I have started buying for 2020. I need the space. I wouldn't mind travelling at this point.

Also if I wanted a July finish for some cattle next year what should I be looking for now?

Waternotsoda · 01-12-2019 6:19pm

Bump.

Anyone send any to the mart?

wrangler · 01-12-2019 6:37pm

Jjameson wrote: »

Abp haven’t changed squat. This has been the case for quite a while.
China ready pens. For offal and the lowest value trim. 4600 tonnes last year a big shiny press release from bird bia stating that they hope to grow this to perhaps 25000 tonnes in coming years. Good news yes but a game changer in the short term it isn’t.

Be interesting this week when the Task force gets to meet, is there a slight increase justified, if there's not there'll be war.

Cavanjack · 01-12-2019 6:43pm

Waternotsoda wrote: »

Anyone getting overage cattle killed. I got 6 overage aa to go. I have started buying for 2020. I need the space. I wouldn't mind travelling at this point.

Also if I wanted a July finish for some cattle next year what should I be looking for now?

Buy a forward animal with a bit of flesh on them if you want it finished in July. A heifer will finish quicker and if an Angus or Hereford all the better.

MIKEKC · 01-12-2019 7:04pm

aphextwit wrote: »

Still cannot get bullocks slaughtered. Last of my beef cattle being converted to over 30 months. Thank you dawn.

Thank you protesters who caused the backlog

wrangler · 01-12-2019 7:19pm

MIKEKC wrote: »

Thank you protesters who caused the backlog

You should be reddening the phones of a few of their posters in facebook,
He who sells 40 year stakes and delivers peat bedding needs taking down a peg or three

wrangler · 01-12-2019 8:15pm

Jjameson wrote: »

Isn’t it amusing that it’s the do nothing ifa hardcore supporters that don’t even keep cattle are the most vocal and aggrieved by the said “backlog”.. it won’t get ye one more euro in levies.

Beats all, and the most vocal protester has no cattle

MIKEKC · 01-12-2019 8:29pm

wrangler wrote: »

You should be reddening the phones of a few of their posters in facebook,
He who sells 40 year stakes and delivers peat bedding needs taking down a peg or three

Don't understand your second line

wrangler · 01-12-2019 8:36pm

MIKEKC wrote: »

Don't understand your second line

Referring to his ads in donedeal.......it's a bit vague alright, the ads were referred to earlier in the week, he's been on telly and radio all week

Base price · 01-12-2019 8:38pm

wrangler wrote: »

Be interesting this week when the Task force gets to meet, is there a slight increase justified, if there's not there'll be war.

It will be interesting to see what happens with prices tomorrow. If prices don't rise by at least 10c then I wouldn't be surprised if there is another round of factory protests. As I previously posted the factories used weak EU prices prior to the last factory protests but they cannot use that excuse anymore. Every farming newspaper be it printed or online is showing the differential between Irish and superior EU prices.

wrangler · 01-12-2019 8:40pm

Base price wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what happens with prices tomorrow. If prices don't rise by at least 10c then I wouldn't be surprised if there is another round of factory protests. As I previously posted the factories used weak EU prices prior to the last factory protests but they cannot use that excuse anymore. Every farming newspaper be it printed or online is showing the differential between Irish and superior EU prices.

Refusing to move will test their resilience, they need a gesture now, is the task force meeting definite for this week

Base price · 01-12-2019 8:46pm

wrangler wrote: »

Refusing to move will test their resilience, they need a gesture now, is the task force meeting definite for this week

Creed announced that it was on this Tuesday. I haven't heard anything to suggest that it's not going to happen.

Water John · 01-12-2019 9:28pm

Thought the cartoon, page 2 IFJ, was very good. Great punch line, if you sit on the fence long enough you get splinters.

So farmers are to blame for upsetting the processors and now they are keeping prices low, just to teach us a lesson. That seems to message tone here, from some.

jntsnk · 01-12-2019 9:39pm

Cavanjack wrote: »

Buy a forward animal with a bit of flesh on them if you want it finished in July. A heifer will finish quicker and if an Angus or Hereford all the better.

Would a Hereford tend to have more fat cover?
Are heifers smaller when finished

DukeCaboom · 01-12-2019 9:59pm

jntsnk wrote: »

Would a Hereford tend to have more fat cover?
Are heifers smaller when finished

Just buy cull cows.

jntsnk · 01-12-2019 10:11pm

DukeCaboom wrote: »

Just buy cull cows.

Something I know nothing about. Body condition purchasing or finished potential grading with FR cows.

DukeCaboom · 01-12-2019 10:41pm

Jjameson wrote: »

Cow fattening needs a hell of a skill set. My advise, make sure not lame, reasonably young, well dried off. Work out realistic budgets for different cow types + your margin and off go.

The lord favors the brave.

3 great bits of advice in fairness.... Fourthly do BUY THEM YOURSELF!!!

jntsnk · 01-12-2019 10:42pm

Jjameson wrote: »

Cow fattening needs a hell of a skill set. My advise, make sure not lame, reasonably young, well dried off. Work out realistic budgets for different cow types + your margin and off go.

The lord favors the brave.

Thanks for the advice. Will buy a small number first, see how it goes

Good loser · 02-12-2019 1:53am

Make sure not in calf - if possible.

Bass Reeves · 02-12-2019 2:14am

Water John wrote: »

Thought the cartoon, page 2 IFJ, was very good. Great punch line, if you sit on the fence long enough you get splinters.

So farmers are to blame for upsetting the processors and now they are keeping prices low, just to teach us a lesson. That seems to message tone here, from some.

TBH FJ was once again politican again. It is too schew'ed towards IFA. TBH I cannot understand the cartoon or what it means. Was it a a cut at BP or IFA. However it was noticeable that the protest was only covered by a written piece on page 5 or 6. No photo's and claiming only 300 farmers there. Any coverage I saw seemed to say numbers were well above 1K the first day even one statement of 3K

Last IFA protest of a few hundred was well hyped by the same rag.

But you wonder was it a case of ''say it ain't so Joe''

Water John · 02-12-2019 10:27am

I think I read previously that, about 20% of culls tend to be in calf.
If claves were worth something you could take it as a bonus. Do you want the hassle of pursuing farmers who have declared the cow, not in calf? I think you need to make that decision, before you start.

The cartoon was a cut at the IFA for not doing enough. That's what caused the splinter groups. People not longer felt represented. In fairness, I think the IFJ have shifted quite a bit, under the new editor. Also exercising a wider brief.

Bass Reeves · 02-12-2019 12:05pm

Water John wrote: »

I think I read previously that, about 20% of culls tend to be in calf.
If claves were worth something you could take it as a bonus. Do you want the hassle of pursuing farmers who have declared the cow, not in calf? I think you need to make that decision, before you start.

The cartoon was a cut at the IFA for not doing enough. That's what caused the splinter groups. People not longer felt represented. In fairness, I think the IFJ have shifted quite a bit, under the new editor. Also exercising a wider brief.

In most marts there a sign no guarantee with cull cows. I have seen more than one auctioneer tap the sign after a declaration was made. There is no comeback with cull cows.

Two issues with culls, first cows virtually always sold as singles. This makes it impossible to take on dealers when buying. I am not sure would the way to go to buy the cheap boner type cows and give them plenty of time. Never really fattened cows so I am not sure. But you imagine a long summer of grass would fatten most anything. With cows it as much about weight as quality

kk.man · 02-12-2019 12:25pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

In most marts there a sign no guarantee with cull cows. I have seen more than one auctioneer tap the sign after a declaration was made. There is no comeback with cull cows.

Two issues with culls, first cows virtually always sold as singles. This makes it impossible to take on dealers when buying. I am not sure would the way to go to buy the cheap boner type cows and give them plenty of time. Never really fattened cows so I am not sure. But you imagine a long summer of grass would fatten most anything. With cows it as much about weight as quality

Agree with Bass here. I finished cows before. They will need a good dose on or after purchase and be prepared for a big meal bill. They never stop eating while conversation in the dairy types are sometimes poor. When cattle start falling in price cows get hit first and go into freefall faster.
Continental youngish cows would be a better option.

Anto_Meath · 02-12-2019 12:33pm

There is a dealer that has a farm leased beside an out farm of mine and he finishes a lot of cull cows. His herd is regularly restricted with TB so I would see that as one of the biggest issues. I often see older suckler cows with a calf at foot making in around €1,200, these would appear to be value to me if you could set yourself up right for the job.

Albert Johnson · 02-12-2019 2:09pm

Anto_Meath wrote: »

There is a dealer that has a farm leased beside an out farm of mine and he finishes a lot of cull cows. His herd is regularly restricted with TB so I would see that as one of the biggest issues. I often see older suckler cows with a calf at foot making in around €1,200, these would appear to be value to me if you could set yourself up right for the job.

+1 on the Tb issue, if you were handling any numbers of culls it would be bound to become an issue at some stage. Age, lameness, mastitis and proving incalf would be more concerns I'd have when purchasing. As for the cow and calf outfits at handy money most of the lads buying them are splitting them immediately after, probably sell the calf and fatten the cow. The same often applies for handy springers near calving, calve them down and into the suck calf ring or done deal with the calf and beef the cow. I'd still be wary of Tb with this system, at least the cows could be fatten relatively quickly to move them on but I'd be afraid of getting stuck with a bundle of weanlings/runner's.

Bass mentioned boner type cows but there a different ballgame again. A lot of those sort of cow's are old or otherwise worn out so won't thrive especially well and mortality will be a factor. There feed conversion efficiency will often be dismal and fattening off grass is about the only viable option imo. Unless your working off land where a very early turnout date is possible then they'll eat you out of house and home until then and still show very little for it. As above Tb will be a significant risk and you need to be able to slaughter them in the price peak months of June, July and early August. There is a margin to be made most years if your setup for them but there's a reason they only make a couple of hundred a piece this time of year.

Panch18 · 02-12-2019 2:21pm

Mastitis is the biggest problem with the cull cow game, especially in spring early summer. You'd want to be checking them at a minimum of once a day - and you'll still lose some.

Castlekeeper · 03-12-2019 12:23pm

Two weeks notice here for killing cull cows, and I'm not a good customer.

A lot of the frighteners on here about the cull cow, I find them easy minding and fattening, very little problems. You'd be as well off buying a bunch off an honest farmer and stay away from the mart and you'd avoid a lot of the problems mentioned.

Dozer1 · 03-12-2019 12:35pm

dealer longside me buys 80% of his stock as cull cows or stock bulls, looks at them maybe 3 times a week mainly FR boner types and lets them range over the place, not sure what that says about the skill/management level required and he hasn't gone broke yet.
That said he's a sound bloke who is welcome in any yard (mine included) so buys very little in the mart mainly direct.

its a place I enjoy passing in the tractor as you get to see every variety of horned cattle while not owning them

Waternotsoda · 04-12-2019 1:31pm

Finally got my 6 AA bullocks 33 Months booked into Kepak next Tuesday.

Jb1989 · 04-12-2019 4:19pm

Waternotsoda wrote: »

Finally got my 6 AA bullocks 33 Months booked into Kepak next Tuesday.

Base plus 8 cent hopefully?

jntsnk · 04-12-2019 6:41pm

Waternotsoda wrote: »

Finally got my 6 AA bullocks 33 Months booked into Kepak next Tuesday.

Same also. Going Monday. Was hassling the agent most days for the last 3 weeks. 30 month cattle must be drying up

johnnyw20 · 06-12-2019 1:59pm

After about 5 weeks of waiting I’ve 5 bulls going next week

ruwithme · 06-12-2019 7:32pm

Last 3 posts here waiting at least a while to get cattle hung up. some wonder why prices were not moving in the right direction for us.

MIKEKC · 06-12-2019 11:50pm

ruwithme wrote: »

Last 3 posts here waiting at least a while to get cattle hung up. some wonder why prices were not moving in the right direction for us.

I'll make that 4 over 50 went overage because of strike 13 left.No idea when they will go

Good loser · 07-12-2019 1:00am

MIKEKC wrote: »

I'll make that 4 over 50 went overage because of strike 13 left.No idea when they will go

They'll go very very quickly now - with the price lift.

Bass Reeves · 07-12-2019 10:19am

While it was a struggle to kill cattle during October and early November It seems to have got easier over last 3 weeks especially if you have underage cattle in the bunch. Price is really the only issue now with no price rise forthcoming.

Processors have acted the mick with smaller producers. They reneged on certain aspects of the agreement. I know a few lads that were docked 10c/kg on over 36 month cattle. These were cattle at 400kg DW so not really heavy carcasses. They have also pulled heifers back to bullock prices. Unless we see radical changes we will see a large downsizing in the industry like we say with lamb in the late noughties.

can you get cattle slaughtered?

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