Ireland's asylum hotel monthly bill tops €3.54m

screamer · 15-08-2019 8:31am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Given the chronic shortage of qualified tradesmen, childcare workers, teachers and so many others, I'd wonder why exactly that 13% is unemployed. It's inexcusable with these shortages. Maybe those particular Irish people are just lazy, ambition-lacking layabouts and it's entirely irrelevant how many immigrants there are? (except that they can scapegoat them, of course)

This. SW is allowing them to be lazy layabouts. I know a number of younger people who did SFA with their lives. No idea how to work and live at home whilst the whole household exists on social welfare. They wouldn’t work their way out of a paper bag as my grandad used to say. Rather be up all night playing Xbox and sleeping all day. Wasters.

And, in a few years, they’ll be coming to a new council house paid for by the daylight workers.

There’s lots of issues in this country with nonsense spending and supports but not one politician has any backbone, and I’m sorry but we Irish are just weak and too accepting of mediocrity.

screamer · 15-08-2019 8:35am

MarkY91 wrote: »

So they're choosing to sleep in a cardboard box as opposed to getting a free hotel room, food and allowance and eventually a free home?

......right.

Many of them don’t want a home. They don’t want the tick tack of daily life, bills to pay, and general responsibility. It’s sad but mental health issues play a large part in their status, and yes there are a large number who don’t want a house because of that.

Beechwoodspark · 15-08-2019 8:41am

Story in paper saying huge amounts of the asylum claims are coming from safe countries like Albania and Georgia and South Africa

Boggles · 15-08-2019 8:55am

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Story in paper saying huge amounts of the asylum claims are coming from safe countries like Albania and Georgia and South Africa

Up to an 99% rejection rate.

InTheShadows · 15-08-2019 9:09am

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Story in paper saying huge amounts of the asylum claims are coming from safe countries like Albania and Georgia and South Africa

Soft touch Republic

Boggles · 15-08-2019 9:11am

punisher5112 wrote: »

It's mainly down to getting in more so more is spent and also cheap cheap labour.

Private individuals and multi national corporations are making a killing with the more that come in euro signs are most definitely rolling.....

I don't know who the private individuals are.

But Multi Nationals have fantastic rates of pay and benefits far beyond the average.

I do wonder where this nonsense comes from, it can't be from a healthy well.

Kivaro · 15-08-2019 9:29am

McHardcore wrote: »

You got called on your "facts" about African unemployment. You posted a link to back them up, which instead disproved them. Then you attempt to backpedal by discrediting your own link.
This has to be a first for boards.ie. Thanks. I got a good laugh out of that.

You are still confused.
The report that I linked to was written by Irish liberal academics, which was totally skewed to present the African population in Ireland in a positive light. For example, the report went on about the highly educated Africans that we have in Ireland, which was self-reported by the Africans themselves and not verified by the report authors. Pure waffle. And if they are so highly educated, why are so many of them unemployed in Ireland?

The one statistic of note from that report is what I quoted. I did not just provide the link, I provided the statement in the report to reference.

O’Connell and Kenny (2017) show that only about 40% of adult African nationals in Ireland are employed, far less than the average for Irish natives or for other immigrant groups.

Maybe when you join the Irish workforce you will have a great appreciation of how much the Africans in Ireland who are not employed is actually costing us.

Boggles · 15-08-2019 9:35am

Kivaro wrote: »

You are still confused.
The report that I linked to was written by Irish liberal academics....

The one statistic of note from that report is what I quoted.

Posts a report that disproves his racist bull shít.

Then tries hilariously to discredit the report he posted.

Absolute comedy goal. :pac:

Patrick2010 · 15-08-2019 10:48am

Complaining about not being able to take food from the Clayton hotel breakfast buffet back to their rooms to eat during the day. It was understood in any hotel I stayed in that food was provided for consumption there and then , not as a supply for the day ahead.

Also this person was apparently staying in direct provision for 12 years waiting for her "papers". You can be sure this person was spending the time making endless appeals.

https://twitter.com/ddiezworld/status/1161888055931932672

Boggles · 15-08-2019 10:57am

Patrick2010 wrote: »

Complaining about not being able to take food from the Clayton hotel breakfast buffet back to their rooms to eat during the day. It was understood in any hotel I stayed in that food was provided for consumption there and then , not as a supply for the day ahead.

Did you ever spend years in a hotel / dp center trying to raise a family?

MarquisDeSad · 15-08-2019 11:15am

McHardcore wrote: »

Kivaro wrote: »

You actually quoted me repeating the fact from my own link.
Maybe you should re-read it.

You got called on your "facts" about African unemployment. You posted a link to back them up, which instead disproved them. Then you attempt to backpedal by discrediting your own link.
This has to be a first for boards.ie. Thanks. I got a good laugh out of that.

Classic kivaro

Stephen15 · 15-08-2019 11:26am

Boggles wrote: »

Up to an 99% rejection rate.

And what happens when the applications are rejected appeal, appeal after appeal until they're allowed stay all paid for by you the taxpayer through free legal aid. Should be immediate deportation after their case is heard and no right to any appeals our say should be final.

SchrodingersCat · 15-08-2019 11:39am

Stephen15 wrote: »

And what happens when the applications are rejected appeal, appeal after appeal until they're allowed stay all paid for by you the taxpayer through free legal aid. Should be immediate deportation after their case is heard and no right to any appeals our say should be final.

If they are deemed to have no legal entitlement to stay in Ireland, the justice minister can make the deportation order. The Gardai can then to enforce it.

InTheShadows · 15-08-2019 12:01pm

Boggles wrote: »

I don't know who the private individuals are.

But Multi Nationals have fantastic rates of pay and benefits far beyond the average.

I do wonder where this nonsense comes from, it can't be from a healthy well.

One contractor I know has three lads from Chile working for him off the books. 5 euro an hour they apparently are living in a 3 bed house in Tallaght with 15 others. No idea about the multis but yes private individuals are making a killing at present and as far as I can see the authorities don't want to know after all it's FG stated policy to increase our population by 1 million by 2040

Patrick2010 · 15-08-2019 12:15pm

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

If they are deemed to have no legal entitlement to stay in Ireland, the justice minister can make the deportation order. The Gardai can then to enforce it.

Thats the theory but doesn't happen in practice does it.

punisher5112 · 15-08-2019 12:22pm

Boggles wrote: »

I don't know who the private individuals are.

But Multi Nationals have fantastic rates of pay and benefits far beyond the average.

I do wonder where this nonsense comes from, it can't be from a healthy well.

What are you on about ... Have you been living under a rock?

Of course people are making huge amounts of money providing the provision centre's!!!

Look at courtown and Wicklow for example and many many other hotels which have been turned into provision centre's. They aren't doing this out of the goodness of their hearts ...

I can see in 10-20 years we will be absolutely crippled from all this.

People working now won't get any type of livable pension either as nothing is been done about the deficit.

Sad but Ireland is changing and not for the better.

SchrodingersCat · 15-08-2019 12:26pm

Patrick2010 wrote: »

Thats the theory but doesn't happen in practice does it.

Yes it does happen in practice.

Patrick2010 · 15-08-2019 12:42pm

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

Yes it does happen in practice.

Yes but in very small numbers

enricoh · 15-08-2019 12:42pm

Boggles wrote: »

This lie again, by the same token Ireland has a 34% unemployment rate.

Amount of people - Employment rate does not equal unemployment rate.

But you know that. It's all in the report you keep linking to.

:rolleyes:

Meh, if 40% of african adults are working the other 60% are living off the taxpayer. I dont care what % are on the dole, what % are on the disability allowance golden ticket,
who is on hap, housed by cluid the Council etc etc.
Same end result, 60% are contributing nothing and costing paddy a fortune.
We're staring down the barrel of no deal brexit n a global recession n there isnt a fiver left in the kitty.
Enough is enough, we've enough bums of our own.

SchrodingersCat · 15-08-2019 12:57pm

Patrick2010 wrote: »

Yes but in very small numbers

If you can give me a reference to these numbers il honestly consider them.

Stephen15 · 15-08-2019 1:17pm

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

If you can give me a reference to these numbers il honestly consider them.

Well someone mentioned that 99% of asylum seekers from the 3 countries with the highest numbers of applicants are rejected. That should really mean that those asylum seekers should be deported which doesn't happen.

Stephen15 · 15-08-2019 1:18pm

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

If you can give me a reference to these numbers il honestly consider them.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/ireland-sees-rise-in-number-of-appeals-against-refusal-for-asylum-seeker-status-930118.html

Stephen15 · 15-08-2019 1:26pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

What are you on about ... Have you been living under a rock?

Of course people are making huge amounts of money providing the provision centre's!!!

Look at courtown and Wicklow for example and many many other hotels which have been turned into provision centre's. They aren't doing this out of the goodness of their hearts ...

Also free legal aid solictors being paid for by you and me to represent these people in court while they appeal when their asylum claims get rejected. It's an industry that's being paid for entirely by the taxpayer and backed by the legal profession who make up the majority of our politicans. Complete banana republic which we did not vote for.

Boggles · 15-08-2019 1:31pm

InTheShadows wrote: »

One contractor I know has three lads from Chile working for him off the books. 5 euro an hour they apparently are living in a 3 bed house in Tallaght with 15 others. No idea about the multis but yes private individuals are making a killing at present and as far as I can see the authorities don't want to know after all it's FG stated policy to increase our population by 1 million by 2040

Pretty sure you made that up.

punisher5112 wrote: »

Of course people are making huge amounts of money providing the provision centre's!!!

You said MNC's, which ones specially?

enricoh wrote: »

Meh, if 40% of african adults are working the other 60% are living off the taxpayer. I dont care what % are on the dole, what % are on the disability allowance golden ticket,

Enough is enough, we've enough bums of our own.

Stay at home parents, college students, people on disability, etc are all bums?

Jaysus what a unique little space you occupy.

I'd hate to be you.

Boggles · 15-08-2019 1:35pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Also free legal aid solictors being paid for by you and me to represent these people in court while they appeal when their asylum claims get rejected. It's an industry that's being paid for entirely by the taxpayer and backed by the legal profession who make up the majority of our politicans. Complete banana republic which we did not vote for.

Really, the majority of politicians are made up of the legal profession?

Please show your work Stephen?

Stephen15 · 15-08-2019 1:41pm

Boggles wrote: »

Really, the majority of politicians are made up of the legal profession?

Please show your work Stephen?

What I meant to say was that the majority of judges are members of political parties and many solictors join political parties in to become judges

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-judges-and-their-links-to-political-parties-26792896.html

Boggles · 15-08-2019 1:46pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

What I meant to say was that the majority of judges are members of political parties and many solictors join political parties in to become judges

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-judges-and-their-links-to-political-parties-26792896.html

The opening line

A THIRD of the country's judges had personal or political connections to political parties before being appointed to the bench, an investigation by the Irish Independent reveals

Is it the majority or a third Stephen?

Could you make up your mind and get back to me?

enricoh · 15-08-2019 1:48pm

Boggles wrote: »

Pretty sure you made that up.

You said MNC's, which ones specially?

Stay at home parents, college students, people on disability, etc are all bums?

Jaysus what a unique little space you occupy.

I'd hate to be you.

Who's paying for the 60% not working, their accommodation ? Irish taxpayers, thats who.
Jaysus, i thought everyone was unique!
Personal insults off someone on t'internet - meh, not hugely important!! Next u'll be calling us racists - that'd be really really worrying!

Boggles · 15-08-2019 1:55pm

enricoh wrote: »

Who's paying for the 60% not working, their accommodation ? Irish taxpayers, thats who.

We only have Irish Tax payers in this country?

Again that only happens in your unique little space, thank Christ.

Just because someone does not earn an income that does not mean they are a complete burden on the state.

I can't actually believe I have to explain that someone.

Blueshoe · 15-08-2019 2:17pm

Boggles wrote: »

We only have Irish Tax payers in this country?

Again that only happens in your unique little space, thank Christ.

Just because someone does not earn an income that does not mean they are a complete burden on the state.

I can't actually believe I have to explain that someone.

You are too far gone my well meaning friend. When Pascal comes round with the collection plate to cover the cost of the public spend bill I hope you are first to put your hand in the pocket.

James Brown · 15-08-2019 2:24pm

biko wrote: »

Do-gooders don't give a **** about Irish homeless, there is just no money in it for them.
You must have political will to house and feed the homeless, but there is none.
There is however, plenty of political will to house and feed people that have never set foot in this country before.

Are do-gooders the ones making money renting out to the government and councils? And would these people making a killing have pals on the councils, in government? That's your homeless/asylum seeker industry not people advocating for housing, volunteers or even paid charity workers.
Or we could blame the do-gooders and keep voting in the same shams we have now.

Boggles · 15-08-2019 2:32pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

You are too far gone my well meaning friend.

Occupying reality doesn't make one well meaning.

But thanks anyway.

Blueshoe · 15-08-2019 2:43pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Are do-gooders the ones making money renting out to the government and councils? And would these people making a killing have pals on the councils, in government? That's your homeless/asylum seeker industry not people advocating for housing, volunteers or even paid charity workers.
Or we could blame the do-gooders and keep voting in the same shams we have now.

Who would you vote in?

Blueshoe · 15-08-2019 2:46pm

Boggles wrote: »

Occupying reality doesn't make one well meaning.

But thanks anyway.

https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/

jimmycrackcorm · 15-08-2019 2:54pm

Portsalon wrote: »

(a) they can't find locations for asylum hostels and two recent attempts to impose them on rural communities were stymied by arson attacks.

Let's face it, we are a racist country, not the 100 thousand welcomes if you're dark and from another part of the world .

I listened to the excuses on local radio when the hotel in mobile was struck by arson. The local counselor was on saying that medical facilities and schools wouldn't be able to cope.

And I thought at the time, if it was a job announcement about several hundred new positions in a new factory opening up there, there worldview be a peep out of him about the lack of medical resources and school places.

He even suggested they should be all placed in Dublin because that's where all the resources they need are

SchrodingersCat · 15-08-2019 2:59pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Well someone mentioned that 99% of asylum seekers from the 3 countries with the highest numbers of applicants are rejected. That should really mean that those asylum seekers should be deported which doesn't happen.

Yes, I have seen the figure of 99%. This is the amount that I know that are rejected from Albania. In contrast, about 95% of Syrian applications get accepted as refugees. Overall, about 70% of asylum applications get rejected.
I assume that these figures include appeals (it would make sense to record them that way, but I would like to see a confirmation of this). Overall, just under 700 applicants got accepted as refugees last year.

According to the process that I have read, the Minister of Justice gets the final say after they fail their asylum application and appeals. The gardai can deport them then.

SchrodingersCat · 15-08-2019 3:09pm

enricoh wrote: »

Meh, if 40% of african adults are working the other 60% are living off the taxpayer. I dont care what % are on the dole, what % are on the disability allowance golden ticket,
who is on hap, housed by cluid the Council etc etc.
Same end result, 60% are contributing nothing and costing paddy a fortune.
We're staring down the barrel of no deal brexit n a global recession n there isnt a fiver left in the kitty.
Enough is enough, we've enough bums of our own.

The Irish government isn't letting a large proportion of them work, which results in the figure of 60%. Asylum applicants cannot work while they are being processed. This is contrary to what happens in most Europe. @kinvaro posted a link to a report that gives a good summary of this %60 figure.

Personally, I think we should follow the example of the rest of Europe and let them find jobs. They will contribute and pay taxes then. Deport them if necessary if they fail at the asylum application like before. It is just costing us money to keep them in hotels and not letting them work.

Boggles · 15-08-2019 3:13pm

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

Personally, I think we should follow the example of the rest of Europe and let them find jobs. They will contribute and pay taxes then.

The report was from 2016-2017 before they were allowed work.

We now do, the law was changed recently, but it had to go to the Supreme Court.

Blueshoe · 15-08-2019 3:17pm

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

The Irish government isn't letting a large proportion of them work, which results in the figure of 60%. Asylum applicants cannot work while they are being processed. This is contrary to what happens in most Europe. @kinvaro posted a link to a report that gives a good summary of this %60 figure.

Personally, I think we should follow the example of the rest of Europe and let them find jobs. They will contribute and pay taxes then. Deport them if necessary if they fail at the asylum application like before. It is just costing us money to keep them in hotels and not letting them work.

You don't get a say. None of us do

SchrodingersCat · 15-08-2019 3:23pm

Boggles wrote: »

The report was from 2016-2017 before they were allowed work.

We now do, the law was changed recently, but it had to go to the Supreme Court.

Thanks for that correction. that must be since June 2018 when that law changed. So now Asylum applicants can work after 9 months of applying. If their applicant and appeals fails I guess they go through the same deportion process as before.

SchrodingersCat · 15-08-2019 3:24pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

You don't get a say. None of us do

Sorry, I don't understand?

enricoh · 15-08-2019 3:26pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

You are too far gone my well meaning friend. When Pascal comes round with the collection plate to cover the cost of the public spend bill I hope you are first to put your hand in the pocket.

Maybe he earns his living out of the migrant industry, plenty of jobs going, n plenty of quangos. Understandable if so.
Otherwise its peak delusion stuff!

Boggles · 15-08-2019 3:27pm

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

Thanks for that correction. that must be since June 2018 when that law changed. So now Asylum applicants can work after 9 months of applying. If their applicant and appeals fails I guess they go through the same deportion process as before.

Apparently.

Personally I think it would be far more clever if they failed the asylum process to enter them into the immigration process.

Short term work Visas if they qualify for jobs we are short in, these can be reviewed and extended if necessary.

SchrodingersCat · 15-08-2019 3:33pm

Boggles wrote: »

Apparently.

Personally I think it would be far more clever if they failed the asylum process to enter them into the immigration process.

Short term work Visas if they qualify for jobs we are short in, these can be reviewed and extended if necessary.

True. I do know that they can apply for the Green Card for some of the higher skilled positions.

4068ac1elhodqr · 15-08-2019 3:59pm

Boggles wrote: »

Personally I think it would be far more clever if they failed the asylum process to enter them into the immigration process.

• If they 'failed the asylum process', it means they're not genuine asylum seekers.

• Which means they're (illegal) economic migrants seeking to take fiscal/welfare advantage at the expense of the taxpayer.

• Which means they've already failed on any 'proper migration process' from the getgo, on poor character for engaging in illegal activity.

Boggles wrote: »

Short term work Visas if they qualify for jobs we are short in, these can be reviewed and extended if necessary.

Like brain surgens, chemical engineers and python scripters? Sure.

There is a good reason Boris's new points sytem won't allow anyone in that can't earn an upper amount, he only wants/needs specifically highly skilled people.

Besides any temporary 'seasonal' agriculture work is nearing an end. And a pool of 1/2bn legal people is already available to select from.
The agro-industries will be automated before too long. There's farmers that can already milk their cows whilst having a cup of tea and watching the weather forecast.

There's only so many nailbars, powerwashing or taxis that be catered for, some of which could easily process undocumented (non-taxed) cash receipts and transactions.

4068ac1elhodqr · 15-08-2019 4:03pm

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

True. I do know that they can apply for the Green Card for some of the higher skilled positions.

Green card? This is not the 'DV-2020' lucky lottery.

Anyone with an ounce of sense that is able to fill a 'higher skilled' position would do so through the proper channels (they'd even get relocation expenses), before paying an illegal human trafficing gang thousands to sneak into the EU on a boat, then into the back of a lorry.

Boggles · 15-08-2019 4:37pm

Carl Puny Garlic wrote: »

• Which means they're (illegal) economic migrants seeking to take fiscal/welfare advantage at the expense of the taxpayer.

Yeah all Fordiners are just feckless and want welfare.

Racist dog whistling aside.

Did you miss the part where I said they get put to work on short terms visas?

There is a good reason Boris's new points sytem won't allow anyone in that can't earn an upper amount, he only wants/needs specifically highly skilled people.

Have you seen a publish paper on his new system?

Any way Bojo wants to give half a million illegals an amnesty, the thought he only needs or wants specifically highly skilled people is a load of bollix, the home office stated as much in a paper last December.

Not a popular one within a certain cohort over there though.

The believe anything as long as it's written on a bus sort.

SchrodingersCat · 15-08-2019 4:45pm

Carl Puny Garlic wrote: »

Green card? This is not the 'DV-2020' lucky lottery.

Anyone with an ounce of sense that is able to fill a 'higher skilled' position would do so through the proper channels (they'd even get relocation expenses), before paying an illegal human trafficing gang thousands to sneak into the EU on a boat, then into the back of a lorry.

Yes, the Irish Green Card. The DV card is American. The details of the green card are here: https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/migrant_workers/employment_permits/green_card_permits.html

Stephen15 · 15-08-2019 5:40pm

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

Yes, I have seen the figure of 99%. This is the amount that I know that are rejected from Albania. In contrast, about 95% of Syrian applications get accepted as refugees. Overall, about 70% of asylum applications get rejected.
I assume that these figures include appeals (it would make sense to record them that way, but I would like to see a confirmation of this). Overall, just under 700 applicants got accepted as refugees last year.

According to the process that I have read, the Minister of Justice gets the final say after they fail their asylum application and appeals. The gardai can deport them then.

I doubt 70% of asylum applicants are deported which really should be the case in my opinion. I don't think asylum applicants should have the right to appeal if they're claims are found false and instead should be deported. Yes in theory they can be deported but that doesn't mean it happens often enough.

James Brown · 15-08-2019 5:43pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

Who would you vote in?

Pretty much anybody except FF/FG. I'd hopes for the SD's but I'm a loose cannon vote wise these days.
If you're going to try fly the 'best of a bad lot' or 'the others are worse', you'd be wrong.

Ireland's asylum hotel monthly bill tops €3.54m

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