Royal Canal on a Road Bike

VonLuck · 30-11-2020 10:33pm

Does anyone know if there has been any progress on the next phase of the greenway from the North Strand out towards Blanchardstown, or has it been shelved?

Brock Turnpike · 01-12-2020 10:59am

VonLuck wrote: »

Does anyone know if there has been any progress on the next phase of the greenway from the North Strand out towards Blanchardstown, or has it been shelved?

It looks like there is a fair bit of works going on between Ashtown and Broombridge at the moment. Although I'm not certain that's greenway works.

buffalo · 01-12-2020 11:14am

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

It looks like there is a fair bit of works going on between Ashtown and Broombridge at the moment. Although I'm not certain that's greenway works.

That'd be the new Pelletstown train station.

silverharp · 01-12-2020 1:08pm

I havnt used the canal in years, if you start at the Point is there a half decent hour out hour back to it?

Mercian Pro · 01-12-2020 10:56pm

VonLuck wrote: »

Does anyone know if there has been any progress on the next phase of the greenway from the North Strand out towards Blanchardstown, or has it been shelved?

https://councilmeetings.dublincity.ie/documents/s29919/278%20Cycling%20Infrastructure.pdf was posted over on another thread and includes an update on the phase 3 and 4 plans.

silverharp wrote: »

I havnt used the canal in years, if you start at the Point is there a half decent hour out hour back to it?

Depends on how fast you're going. All the way to Castleknock (12th lock) is paved but it's very rough beyond that along the Deep Sinking.

magicbastarder · 23-12-2020 3:06pm

not about cycling, but about the royal canal and its restoration:

https://www.facebook.com/waterwaysireland/videos/182505813595978

buffalo · 12-01-2021 11:40am

Incremental progress: https://www.waterwaysireland.org/news-centre/marine-notices/1161/marine-notice-05-of-2021---royal-canal---phibsboro-to-ashtown---towpath-investigation-works---jan-to-march-2021

Towpath investigation works – Jan to March 2021

Waterways Ireland wishes to notify towpath users that site investigation works have commenced on the Royal Canal towpath between Phibsboro and Ashtown and will continue until March 2021.

Dublin City Council have classified these as part of critical infrastructure works so they will also continue over the current period of increased Covid 19 restrictions.

The towpath will remain open but users should exercise due care and caution when passing any vehicles or plant along the path.

VonLuck · 12-01-2021 12:54pm

Am I right in saying that's part of Phase 4?

Has there been any works for Phase 3 as of yet?

Mercian Pro · 12-01-2021 6:43pm

VonLuck wrote: »

Am I right in saying that's part of Phase 4?

Has there been any works for Phase 3 as of yet?

Yes, Cross Guns at Phibsborough to Ashtown is Phase 4 and was due to go to tender this month. A bit worrying that they are going to be undertaking investigation works for the next three months as the results would normally feed into the tender documents.

Phase 3 was due to go to tender last month but I wouldn't be surprised if that has slipped too.

VonLuck · 29-01-2021 12:48pm

I read this morning that Phase 3 is to commence construction in August with an expected 15 month programme. Phase 4 to follow shortly thereafter in September, also with a 15 month programme.

A shame about the delay, but glad to see dates confirmed and it's actually going ahead.

Brock Turnpike · 29-01-2021 1:31pm

VonLuck wrote: »

I read this morning that Phase 3 is to commence construction in August with an expected 15 month programme. Phase 4 to follow shortly thereafter in September, also with a 15 month programme.

A shame about the delay, but glad to see dates confirmed and it's actually going ahead.

What will each phase deliver?

Seth Brundle · 29-01-2021 2:18pm

According to this politician on FB...

CURRENT STATUS:
Phase 1: Guild Street to Upper Sheriff Street (0.5 Km) – Completed in 2009.
Phase 2: Upper Sheriff Street to North Strand (0.7km) – Completed July 2020
Phase 3: North Strand to Phibsborough, (2.1km) – Detailed design phase. It is expected that construction will begin at the end of Quarter 4 in 2020 and it will take approximately two years to complete.
Phase 4: Cross Guns Bridge, Phibsborough to Longford Bridge, Ashtown (4.3Km) - This project has 4 sub-phases.
Phase 4A involves the introduction of a contra-flow bus and cycle lane over Broome Bridge in Cabra - It is currently in construction and it will be completed by October 2020.
Phase 4B involves main towpath upgrade - It is anticipated that construction will commence in Quarter 4 of 2020, with likely completion in Quarter 4
of 2021. Dredging of the canal will be required for some sections.
Phase 4C involves remainder of towpath upgrade, including 7th Lock/Liffey Junction railway underpass upgrade
AND
Phase 4D (Tolka Valley Park –
Phoenix Park greenway link via Ashtown) are currently in the design stage - A
timeline for the completion of 4C and 4D sub-phases is not possible at present. However, it is hoped that all of Phase 4 of the Royal Canal Greenway will be completed by the end of 2023.

His post is from last August and I think delivery times are now incorrect.

VonLuck · 29-01-2021 3:00pm

This was from 6 days ago so would assume to be correct: https://raymcadam.com/2021/01/23/construction-work-on-remainder-of-royal-canal-greenway-to-start-by-september/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Mercian Pro · 29-01-2021 6:33pm

VonLuck wrote: »

This was from 6 days ago so would assume to be correct: https://raymcadam.com/2021/01/23/construction-work-on-remainder-of-royal-canal-greenway-to-start-by-september/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Yes, those are the most recent projected dates but, on the basis that every other stage of this process has taken way longer than planned, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

What will each phase deliver?

From the DCC website:

"Phase 3 of the Royal Canal Greenway runs from North Stand bridge to Phibsborough along the Royal Canal. It will include new cycle friendly ramps, widening of the existing paths, crossings across all roads and a new bridge over the Royal Canal between Drumcondra Road and Phibsborough." From memory, there will also be new lighting and CCTV..

Phase 4 is more of the same but the first section above Cross Guns bridge will be shared with cars as far as the cottages. Beyond that it's intended to have a 2.5m two-way cyclepath alongside a 2m footpath. Where this isn't possible, they intend acquiring additional land but worryingly, this is shown as a later phase!

VonLuck · 29-01-2021 6:39pm

Mercian Pro wrote: »

Yes, those are the most recent projected dates but, on the basis that every other stage of this process has taken way longer than planned, I wouldn't hold my breath.

From the DCC website:

"Phase 3 of the Royal Canal Greenway runs from North Stand bridge to Phibsborough along the Royal Canal. It will include new cycle friendly ramps, widening of the existing paths, crossings across all roads and a new bridge over the Royal Canal between Drumcondra Road and Phibsborough." From memory, there will also be new lighting and CCTV..

Phase 4 is more of the same but the first section above Cross Guns bridge will be shared with cars as far as the cottages. Beyond that it's intended to have a 2.5m two-way cyclepath alongside a 2m footpath. Where this isn't possible, they intend acquiring additional land but worryingly, this is shown as a later phase!

I noticed in the planning documents for the huge apartment development in Ashtown they just indicate the current footpath and make no allowance for the future cycle path. Seems crazy to me that it wasn't implemented as a planning requirement.

Also, does anyone know where you can find the detailed drawings for both Phase 3 and 4? I remember seeing them ages ago but for the life of me can't locate them online anymore.

Mercian Pro · 30-01-2021 10:04pm

VonLuck wrote: »

Also, does anyone know where you can find the detailed drawings for both Phase 3 and 4? I remember seeing them ages ago but for the life of me can't locate them online anymore.

I went looking last year and was surprised to find that they can't be found. The full details were online during the Part 8 process but, unlike normal planning applications, there seems to be no way to access them now. It is most odd that I can view Mr Brown's plans for his kitchen extension in Drimnagh but not DCC's plans for major public realm projects. I have written to DCC asking why this is so and will post here if and when I hear back from them.

buffalo · 30-01-2021 10:15pm

It's a good question to put to DCC.

In the meantime, they were archived by the Internet. You can find links at the bottom of this page, they seem to load slowly, but they're there.

https://web.archive.org/web/20200204005245/http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-services-planning-planning-news/royal-canal-greenway-part-8

VonLuck · 01-02-2021 11:10am

buffalo wrote: »

It's a good question to put to DCC.

In the meantime, they were archived by the Internet. You can find links at the bottom of this page, they seem to load slowly, but they're there.

https://web.archive.org/web/20200204005245/http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-services-planning-planning-news/royal-canal-greenway-part-8

Unfortunately I don't think that's current. For instance, one of the drawings shows the path going straight alongside Royal Canal Avenue and the Kayaking club isn't shown which would have a big impact on the route.

Mercian Pro · 01-02-2021 10:00pm

From memory, they seem to be the Part 8 drawings alright although that is an odd error.

buffalo · 01-02-2021 10:38pm

VonLuck wrote: »

Unfortunately I don't think that's current. For instance, one of the drawings shows the path going straight alongside Royal Canal Avenue and the Kayaking club isn't shown which would have a big impact on the route.

They don't even show the bridge for the Ratoath Road or the Luas depot. They were the original Part 8 drawings, I haven't seen anything more detailed or newer than that - I'd be interested to see if there's been any updates.

Mercian Pro · 02-02-2021 2:34pm

Hopefully they have been updating them and the tender set are a bit more accurate. At Cross Guns Bridge, they differ quite a bit from the current Bus Connect proposals. Looks like there will be two new pesestrian/cyclist bridges over the canal along this stretch if both schemes go ahead.

VonLuck · 02-02-2021 2:54pm

It seems a bit crazy that there's no easy way to access information on an important piece of public infrastructure like this. The public may believe it's proceeding as per the old link posted previously, but could easily turn out quite different e.g. narrower footpaths/cyclepaths, reintroduction of kissing gates etc. By the time it commences construction it's too late.

beauf · 02-02-2021 3:18pm

I apologise if I'm wrong. But I always get the impression they go through the motions in these public consultations. If there's any dispute they just stop. Rarely do they make significant changes based on feedback. They generally just present the same plan again at a later date, hoping opinions have changed enough, or jaded enough to agree to it.

So I say let them make all the changes they want. See how it works. They'll cave to political pressure if it doesn't work.

That said I've really enjoyed cycling the canal. I don't do it that often though. Mostly because its lot slower and secluded in parts. One reason for the slowness that is all the awkward transitions/connections and gates..

Mercian Pro · 02-02-2021 4:21pm

You're probably right about them going through the motions with Part 8 consultations. Where they do work is the internal process within the Council where the plans have to be presented to the Area Committees and full Council. For better or worse, this has resulted in many schemes being dropped, postponed or modified beyond recognition. It's very difficult to actually track what happens to some of these schemes although Kevin Baker, chair of the Dublin Cycling Campaign, does his best on https://trello.com/b/dps7lepq/infrastructure-projects

Brock Turnpike · 03-02-2021 10:57am

Can someone point to the actual end state they are going for with the canal? Is it a full greenway the whole length of the canal? It appears they are completely ignoring everything between Castleknock and Leixlip?

buffalo · 03-02-2021 11:13am

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

Can someone point to the actual end state they are going for with the canal? Is it a full greenway the whole length of the canal? It appears they are completely ignoring everything between Castleknock and Leixlip?

Not ignoring - it's just particularly troublesome as there's no clear solution for a greenway of the desired width. It means either building a boardwalk on the train track side, or along the backs of people's gardens (and possibly through some people's extended gardens?) and trying to work through all the political and legal objections that will entail.

Mercian Pro · 03-02-2021 5:50pm

buffalo wrote: »

Not ignoring - it's just particularly troublesome as there's no clear solution for a greenway of the desired width. It means either building a boardwalk on the train track side, or along the backs of people's gardens (and possibly through some people's extended gardens?) and trying to work through all the political and legal objections that will entail.

Why Fingal didn't split this project is beyond me. It was obvious from the start that the Deep Sinking was going to be technically and politically difficult whereas the section between Porterstown Road and the County Boundary near Leixlip was, and is, quite straightforward.

Even allowing for the difficulties, their lack of any kind of progress since the public consultation over 18 months ago has been abysmal.

Seth Brundle · 08-02-2021 2:53pm

https://twitter.com/dublintwowheels/status/1358721579635638274

Stark · 08-02-2021 3:56pm

There is no way to travel through on a bike or wheelchair.

Not strictly true. You can still get through on a bike, you just need to be able bodied :pac:

devonp · 08-02-2021 9:45pm

what part of the RC is that ?

Seth Brundle · 08-02-2021 10:04pm

I think it's at Phibsborough

iwillhtfu · 08-02-2021 10:10pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

https://twitter.com/dublintwowheels/status/1358721579635638274

Can you not go around the gate to the right? It looks like there's plenty of room over there. Obviously an issue with lads joy riding or knackers.

buffalo · 08-02-2021 10:18pm

devonp wrote: »

what part of the RC is that ?

Looks like when you come off Dorset St on the south side of the canal heading west, about halfway along that stretch (parallel to Whitworth Road).

https://goo.gl/maps/jvmxH7PjhwLTVFR8A

In fairness I think the middle bit of the kissing gate has been removed, so it's semi-accessible.

KevRossi · 08-02-2021 10:21pm

devonp wrote: »

what part of the RC is that ?

Between Drumcondra and Phibsborough. I think it's accessible from the right side of the gate. It can be seen here.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3621674,-6.2623586,3a,75y,244.97h,89.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s3U0ADKnBIhe1atPyxIl7qQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D3U0ADKnBIhe1atPyxIl7qQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D64.62054%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

VonLuck · 09-02-2021 1:00pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

https://twitter.com/dublintwowheels/status/1358721579635638274

I've actually cycled through that gap and can say that it's probably safer now. The grass has this thing called grasscrete I think. It's a plastic grid in the ground that's lethal when wet. You'd fall right off.

Stark · 09-02-2021 1:14pm

VonLuck wrote: »

I've actually cycled through that gap and can say that it's probably safer now. The grass has this thing called grasscrete I think. It's a plastic grid in the ground that's lethal when wet. You'd fall right off.

Yup, been there, done that.

Gerlad · 11-02-2021 2:21pm

€400k for Fingal Co. council for Royal Canal Greenway in latest NTA cycle and walkway announcement. Seems a pittance in comparison to what Kildare and Dublin county councils (c€10m) are getting for their sections of the greenway with arguably most of the work required at Deep Sinking and surrounds.

beauf · 11-02-2021 2:32pm

Cycling infrastructure D15 is very dysmal. Very little joins up.

Hurrache · 11-02-2021 2:47pm

It's poor alright.

KevRossi · 11-02-2021 3:02pm

It's down to personnel. You have someone with a passion for an idea or a project then they'll get things done.

The Westmeath section of the Royal Canal was done before 2013*. All cyclable, well signposted as well. Since then they have been leaders in pushing through other projects like the Athlone-Mullingar greenway and they are miles ahead of anyone else in terms of signage and sustainability along the route.

*I walked it 25 years ago, can't remember much about the condition of the route, but I cycled it in 2013 and county border to county border, Westmeath stood out.

buffalo · 11-02-2021 3:38pm

Gerlad wrote: »

€400k for Fingal Co. council for Royal Canal Greenway in latest NTA cycle and walkway announcement. Seems a pittance in comparison to what Kildare and Dublin county councils (c€10m) are getting for their sections of the greenway with arguably most of the work required at Deep Sinking and surrounds.

Probably just covering design or investigation stages so, whereas Kildare are gearing up for actual construction (I hope!).

Mercian Pro · 11-02-2021 6:00pm

buffalo wrote: »

Probably just covering design or investigation stages so, whereas Kildare are gearing up for actual construction (I hope!).

Unfortunately yes I'd say as, even if they finally identify a preferred route in the next few months, they will then have another round of public consultation before going for planning permission. Detail design, and possibly a CPO process will follow before they can even tender it. At the rate it's been going, even going to tender in 2022 would be ambitious

Seth Brundle · 16-02-2021 10:12am

https://twitter.com/IrishCycle/status/1361465312542130177

wildlifeboy · 17-02-2021 10:09am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

https://twitter.com/IrishCycle/status/1361465312542130177

there are cranes behind the houses on roselawn road about ten houses up from the bridge. i checked planning and there are no domestic projects here so is this something to do with the greenway maybe? anyone know anything about them?

Mercian Pro · 17-02-2021 11:08am

wildlifeboy wrote: »

there are cranes behind the houses on roselawn road about ten houses up from the bridge. i checked planning and there are no domestic projects here so is this something to do with the greenway maybe? anyone know anything about them?

Hard to imagine how it would relate to the Greenway as the 2019 design showed the route running along the south bank along there before bridging over to the north side near the end of Roselawn. The only way it could be connected would be if they are investigating having the Greenway on the north bank for the full distance but that would involve even more grief as many of the gardens have been extended right down to the water's edge.

Seth Brundle · 17-02-2021 11:36am

I forget the figure but the finance allocated to that section would only cover an evaluation without heavy equipment

Edit: Fingal have 400k for the entire Royal Canal in the county - maybe that would cover cranes depending on how much of the canal they plan on working on
https://www.fingal.ie/news/fingal-receives-eu148m-boost-funding-nta-investment-walking-and-cycling-infrastructure

knockoutned · 17-02-2021 12:08pm

wildlifeboy wrote: »

there are cranes behind the houses on roselawn road about ten houses up from the bridge. i checked planning and there are no domestic projects here so is this something to do with the greenway maybe? anyone know anything about them?

No, they are actually houses. The entrance to them will be through the gates right beside the humpback bridge and before the first Roselawn house.

http://www.pleanala.ie/documents/reports/244/R244402.pdf

FinnC · 20-02-2021 2:33pm

What’s the route from Lexlip Confey to Maynooth like does anyone know?

devonp · 20-02-2021 2:48pm

Confey to Louisa bridge is "normally" good..fine gravel but at the present its very muddy (dog walk y'day)
louisa bridge to maynooth...rough path then good for maybe 500m to railway junction....then very rough grass track/mud to near carton and then fine to Maynooth

there'll be plenty of walkers / runners at the weekend

bring your Cx or MTB

Seth Brundle · 02-03-2021 12:38pm

https://twitter.com/IrishCycle/status/1366709473469988865

Royal Canal on a Road Bike

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