What’s wrong with flat pedals on a road bike?

smacl · 15-04-2021 8:08am

byrnem31 wrote: »

I started using spd last year as I bought a decent bike, defy advanced 2 2020.
I'd never go back to runners. It's better for your legs, hips etc, more power and you feel part of the bike.

I have double sided spds. I fixed the bike the other day and took it around the estate in runners. When I was coming around the corner, I put power into the bike and my foot slipped on the pedal with my runners and I nearly snapped my ankle, never again.

Anyone in runners still should give the spds a go. I can get off the bike and walk anywhere too which is good as my cycling shoes are as comfy as runners either way.

Agree with feeling more like part of the bike, not so sure about clipped in being better for your legs, hips, etc... Being able to change foot position on a long ride has its advantages much like being able change hand position on the bars. If you're using pinned pedals slipping, or even small unwanted foot movement, doesn't appear to be an issue. Longest I've done after changing from years of SPDs to flats last summer was a hilly 120k and I didn't notice much difference. Hopefully doing longer this summer.

If I was cycling exclusively on the road without much stop start for lights, I'd probably prefer clipless. Same if I was in a group trying to maximise efficiency or struggling in any way to keep pace. That doesn't really describe the larger part of my cycling so I'll stay with flats for now. Until the n+1 dedicated road only bike arrives of course

magicbastarder · 15-04-2021 8:43am

byrnem31 wrote: »

I have double sided spds. I fixed the bike the other day and took it around the estate in runners. When I was coming around the corner, I put power into the bike and my foot slipped on the pedal with my runners and I nearly snapped my ankle, never again.

But you were wearing runners with spd pedals? Of course that's not going to end well.

byrnem31 · 15-04-2021 1:30pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

But you were wearing runners with spd pedals? Of course that's not going to end well.

They are double sided. Spd on one side and standard foot pedals on the the other.

Macy0161 · 15-04-2021 2:08pm

fwiw I doubt any one in a leisure group spin would even be looking. Use what you're most comfortable.

The longer I cycle, the "rules" like Velominati push really does damage to the perceived accessibility of the sport. And actually damages the professional sport in some ways (we must be the only sport that buying and wearing a replica jersey is a bad thing!).

My n=1, I much prefer being clipped in - it "feels" more efficient for me. On my road bike I generally use SPD-SL, but in winter the last two years I've swapped to spd, as I have spd boots for gravelling. The last few weeks, I've swapped between them on the same bike, on the same within 5km roads. I though spring had sprung, so swapped, and then we were back to winter. I really notice the bigger platform and stiffer sole on my road shoes.

It is so much less hassle to walk in recessed SPD's though! And you can buy those velosambas!

smacl wrote: »

I've tried combo flat/SPD pedals and they really are the worst of both worlds in my experience. Decent double sided platform SPDs like the M424 work fine as a flat pedal in anything but the thinnest sole shoes and don't leave you playing pedal roulette when you are clipping in.

That's my experience having gone on a spin on my brothers commuter with combo pedals. Trying to clip in to the flat side.

Certainly in the context of "nipping to shop", I'm fine on the top of SPD-SL's, and SPD (both platform and non-platform). You can get covers for spd-sl that clip in to the pedal to effectively make them flat too.

15-04-2021 3:07pm

smacl wrote: »

Agree with feeling more like part of the bike, not so sure about clipped in being better for your legs, hips, etc... Being able to change foot position on a long ride has its advantages much like being able change hand position on the bars. If you're using pinned pedals slipping, or even small unwanted foot movement, doesn't appear to be an issue. Longest I've done after changing from years of SPDs to flats last summer was a hilly 120k and I didn't notice much difference. Hopefully doing longer this summer.

If I was cycling exclusively on the road without much stop start for lights, I'd probably prefer clipless. Same if I was in a group trying to maximise efficiency or struggling in any way to keep pace. That doesn't really describe the larger part of my cycling so I'll stay with flats for now. Until the n+1 dedicated road only bike arrives of course

On long rides I find the flats more comfortable for the reason you describe cause you can move around. With clipless I would think I had them set up perfectly but after 60k or so I would get uncomfortable and tight, and sometimes a "hotspot" on my foot.

Although after 6 months off the bike and the "lockdown stone" I won't be doing 60k+ for a while

Only downside I have found to the pins is that on one occasion I caught my calf somehow on them and got a bad scratch. Although I won't be winning any cyclist purest points, I wear baggy mountain biking 3/4 shorts on my road and touring bikes.

Friend of mine crashed into a ditch before and reckons if he were not clipped in he could have bailed, but I dunno how realistic leaping off a bike is tbf.

murphyebass · 15-04-2021 3:11pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I ride studded mtb flats on my road bike these days. A few others here do too.

How do you find them on a longer spin like say 70-100km?

I have dual sided pedals from shimano, flat one side and clipless the other.

The flats have pins alright but I wouldn’t say they’re the grippiest. They’re good but I they’re not a patch on clipless.

Great for going to the shop etc without having to change the pedals though as the odd bit off roading where I don’t trust being clipless.

magicbastarder · 15-04-2021 3:47pm

Macy0161 wrote: »

The longer I cycle, the "rules" like Velominati push really does damage to the perceived accessibility of the sport.

anyone who takes 'the rules' as anything other than a bit of fun is probably going to be insufferable anyway, regardless of 'the rules'

CramCycle · 16-04-2021 7:22am

Macy0161 wrote: »

The longer I cycle, the "rules" like Velominati push really does damage to the perceived accessibility of the sport. And actually damages the professional sport in some ways (we must be the only sport that buying and wearing a replica jersey is a bad thing!).

magicbastarder wrote: »

anyone who takes 'the rules' as anything other than a bit of fun is probably going to be insufferable anyway, regardless of 'the rules'

Funny thing is some people take them very seriously. I read an interview with the guy who maintains the website (someone linked from this forum). He actually came across quite well, it is all a bit of fun seemed to be his view on it.

cletus · 16-04-2021 7:33am

I always* got the impression that the rules were more serious than not, or at the very least, they were a joke created off the back of something much more serious.

Like, even though they overstate the fact, they're based around the idea that people out cycling bikes genuinely think like that.

*Always being the last two or so years since I was made aware of the bloody things

CramCycle · 16-04-2021 7:40am

cletus wrote: »

I always got the impression that the rules were more serious than not, or at the very least, they were a joke created off the back of something much more serious.

Like, even though they overstate the fact, they're based around the idea that people out cycling bikes genuinely think like that.

I think that's the joke or satire anyway, the guy in the interview from memory followed the rules but seemed to be very much of the impression that it was a personal choice and once you were out enjoying your bike ride, it really didn't matter. It is making fun of those who do comment on others, and there is at least one in every club. I remember one guy calling for us all to have matching socks to go on club spins, and to this day I still think he meant it.

Mr. Cats · 16-04-2021 8:10am

Seeing as one of the rules is no saddle bags it’s pretty clear that nobody takes it seriously, or at least nobody should. I think there’s another one about what’s the correct way to how lounge on bike when not cycling it ! :-)

I think you’re right that there’s always one or two who don’t get that it’s a joke. But it’s not just in cycling that you have those people. I don’t play golf but I guess it’s the same attitude that drives dress codes etc in golf clubs. Again 99% of people don’t care but those that do want to impose the arbitrary rules on everyone else.

magicbastarder · 16-04-2021 8:42am

cletus wrote: »

Like, even though they overstate the fact, they're based around the idea that people out cycling bikes genuinely think like that.

i always took it as a light hearted bit of self parody about how seriously cyclists sometimes take themselves/ourselves.
so in that sense, it could be seen either way i guess.

Macy0161 · 16-04-2021 8:56am

Still not sure you wouldn't get slagged to feck if you turned up for a spin in a current World Tour jersey. You definitely wouldn't if you turned up for a game of 5 a side in a current English Premier League jersey. There's one potentially massive revenue stream cut off from pro-teams, whilst we all bemoan how unsustainable the cycling model is.

magicbastarder · 16-04-2021 8:58am

one reason i wouldn't wear a jersey from a pro team is that in the main, they're gack (says he who doesn't keep in any way abreast of what the pro teams are currently wearing)

Macy0161 · 16-04-2021 9:05am

That's not really the point. If we had a striker banging in the goals for United, we'd have no problem wearing the jersey. Sam banging in the wins for DQS, and no one would rock up with a DQS jersey.

MangleBadger · 16-04-2021 9:15am

Macy0161 wrote: »

That's not really the point. If we had a striker banging in the goals for United, we'd have no problem wearing the jersey. Sam banging in the wins for DQS, and no one would rock up with a DQS jersey.

I actually passed somebody in a DQS jersey yesterday. I read on another forum that one reason people don't like replica jerseys is if they see somebody out in team gear they want to think they just saw XXX cyclist.

CramCycle · 16-04-2021 9:46am

magicbastarder wrote: »

one reason i wouldn't wear a jersey from a pro team is that in the main, they're gack (says he who doesn't keep in any way abreast of what the pro teams are currently wearing)

Some of the kits in the womens peloton this year have been class, trying to influence my club designer by sending on photos but no dice so far.

On the same note, I would happily wear the Palace/Rapha/EF jersey if it wasn't so stupidly expensive but I accept it looks rubbish. I think looking rubbish is an incentive to do better when on a bike

murphyebass · 16-04-2021 11:22am

magicbastarder wrote: »

one reason i wouldn't wear a jersey from a pro team is that in the main, they're gack (says he who doesn't keep in any way abreast of what the pro teams are currently wearing)

I bought a few of them on AliExpress cause they were cheap. I have no idea about who the pro teams are. Just needed some cheap cycling gear.

I’m probably the one some/all of ye laugh at going down the road. Lol.

One has Triple Karmaliet as the sponsor. I love that beer so I bought that jersey. They could top or bottom or not even a team for all I know.

16-04-2021 6:26pm

Current pro jerseys are something I wouldn't wear but each to their own.

I do have a Liquigas jersey and a Kas one which has had a couple of complements from passing cyclists.

smacl · 16-04-2021 6:40pm

Macy0161 wrote: »

That's not really the point. If we had a striker banging in the goals for United, we'd have no problem wearing the jersey. Sam banging in the wins for DQS, and no one would rock up with a DQS jersey.

Would be nice to buy in such a way as to support the sport. Most of my gear is DHB, Galibier and a few boards bits. Wouldn't mind splashing out on a bit of colour. I do like the idea of some nice vintage stuff.

CramCycle · 16-04-2021 6:40pm

My first actual paid for jersey as an adult was a Cofidis one, I did not look pro but I feel it represented my riding style well. People recognised me quickly but I never achieved anything of note.

MojoMaker · 16-04-2021 8:03pm

Mr. Cats wrote: »

Seeing as one of the rules is no saddle bags it’s pretty clear that nobody takes it seriously

I was thinking this was one of the rules that is generally observed pretty well.

Saddlebags have no place on a road bike. You wear a jersey or a jacket with pockets so you can strip that hideous eyesore off your frame and tuck the essential components away out of sight :pac:

Tube, mini-pump, and maybe patches if you want to push it - nothing else

cletus · 16-04-2021 8:04pm

See...

Macy0161 · 16-04-2021 8:06pm

I'm as much a hypocrite, in that I don't buy current jerseys, but I have a sizeable collection of retro pro team jerseys that I wear pretty much exclusively outside of races/ events. I have witnessed someone getting grief for a retro jersey that had rainbow bands on it, so even then...

Green is Growing · 16-04-2021 8:22pm

The only reason I don't like most jerseys is I don't like being a advertisement billboard on wheels.

Mr. Cats · 16-04-2021 10:14pm

MojoMaker wrote: »

Tube, mini-pump, and maybe patches if you want to push it - nothing else

Pump is attached to frame and tubes are in top tube bag. The saddle bag is for battery pack and charging lead in case phone dies.

MojoMaker · 17-04-2021 9:51am

Sweet Jesus :eek::)

Wishbone Ash · 17-04-2021 2:26pm

CramCycle wrote: »

.... I remember one guy calling for us all to have matching socks to go on club spins, and to this day I still think he meant it.

Proper order - wearing odd socks is just attention seeking behaviour.

Mr. Cats wrote: »

... I don’t play golf but I guess it’s the same attitude that drives dress codes etc in golf clubs. Again 99% of people don’t care but those that do want to impose the arbitrary rules on everyone else.

I don't golf either but I'd draw the line at playing with someone who thinks it's acceptable to do so in jeans/tracksuit/hoodie etc. The vast majority of golfers that I know (including several that cycle) are totally in favour of a dress code on the course/clubhouse.

youcancallmeal · 17-04-2021 6:56pm

Mr. Cats wrote: »

I think you’re right that there’s always one or two who don’t get that it’s a joke. But it’s not just in cycling that you have those people. I don’t play golf but I guess it’s the same attitude that drives dress codes etc in golf clubs. Again 99% of people don’t care but those that do want to impose the arbitrary rules on everyone else.

I play golf and a few years ago at my club a fella turned up one day in cords which isn't that bad but some auld lad called him out on it. Ever since then this guy wears the most outrageous(but "regulation") trousers. I think it's great and love some of the trousers he has but don't think I'd be that bold. Dress codes are mostly stupid but I would draw the line at jeans and football jerseys

Macy0161 · 17-04-2021 7:23pm

MojoMaker wrote: »

Saddlebags have no place on a road bike. You wear a jersey or a jacket with pockets so you can strip that hideous eyesore off your frame and tuck the essential components away out of sight

That's great, until you crash and the hard stuff in the pack pockets does you damage (as the scar from the seven stiches in my pack indicate).

Mr. Cats · 17-04-2021 7:50pm

Macy0161 wrote: »

That's great, until you crash and the hard stuff in the pack pockets does you damage (as the scar from the seven stiches in my pack indicate).

Was out for a spin today and saw a guy with no saddlebag but his jersey pockets were stuffed to the gills. Looked like he was wearing a batman utility belt :-) Didn’t look very suave to me.

On the golf thing I don’t really get the dress code. Seems I might be wrong on my assumption that most golfers don’t care. I wonder would jeans and a rugby jersey be more acceptable than jeans and a soccer or gaa jersey?

CramCycle · 17-04-2021 8:11pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I don't golf either but I'd draw the line at playing with someone who thinks it's acceptable to do so in jeans/tracksuit/hoodie etc. The vast majority of golfers that I know (including several that cycle) are totally in favour of a dress code on the course/clubhouse.

Mr. Cats wrote: »

On the golf thing I don’t really get the dress code. Seems I might be wrong on my assumption that most golfers don’t care. I wonder would jeans and a rugby jersey be more acceptable than jeans and a soccer or gaa jersey?

As someone who golfs rarely, I don't agree with the regulations but much like cycling, try to do it in the wrong kit and you will know about it by the end of the day. A friend of mine does get some class looking golf kit though that would put the most flamboyant cycling gear to shame and I am immensely jealous. The only thing I have official is a set of clubs from a departed friend and a pair of shoes I bought that are bright orange and super comfortable, everything else is free kit that my partners company hand out at their promo events. Which nearly all of doubles up as winter cycling or walking commuter layers.

loyatemu · 17-04-2021 8:21pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I don't golf either but I'd draw the line at playing with someone who thinks it's acceptable to do so in jeans/tracksuit/hoodie etc. The vast majority of golfers that I know (including several that cycle) are totally in favour of a dress code on the course/clubhouse.

why though, it's just tradition. It's a sport where you walk around at a sedate pace. Whatever about cycling having some mostly ignored "rules", the arcane regulations and dress codes etc are one of the reasons golf is struggling to attract new members.

eeeee · 17-04-2021 11:06pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Proper order - wearing odd socks is just attention seeking behaviour.

:eek:
Some of us just don't pair our socks.
My life is too short. I haven't paired socks since 1999.
Odd socks ftw!
Sometimes I grab a pair, it's always a weird day when that happens

I also have long sock paired with short trainer sock days. It causes some people physical pain the way they go on about it

magicbastarder · 17-04-2021 11:09pm

was it just me who read Cram's post as yer man wanted everyone to match socks *with each other*?

cletus · 17-04-2021 11:13pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

was it just me who read Cram's post as yer man wanted everyone to match socks *with each other*?

Nope, that was my assumption too. I think we're actually right, and other posters are just having a laugh with the wording of the post

Wishbone Ash · 18-04-2021 1:00am

cletus wrote: »

...I think we're actually right, and other posters are just having a laugh with the wording of the post

Yes, of course. I just couldn't resist the temptation to have a go at the annoying odd sock attention seeking brigade.

CramCycle · 18-04-2021 1:19pm

Apologies for the confusion, he had wanted everyone in the group to wear club socks, and was quite serious about it.

dinneenp · 18-04-2021 2:58pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Funny thing is some people take them very seriously. I read an interview with the guy who maintains the website (someone linked from this forum). He actually came across quite well, it is all a bit of fun seemed to be his view on it.

I read and enjoyed the book. If anyone takes the rules seriously I won't take them (the person) seriously.

Eamonnator · 18-04-2021 3:17pm

If you don't like those rules, here are the "Euro" rules.
You can choose which set to ignore.
https://eurocyclist.wordpress.com/about/

cletus · 18-04-2021 3:44pm

Eamonnator wrote: »

If you don't like those rules, here are the "Euro" rules.
You can choose which set to ignore.
https://eurocyclist.wordpress.com/about/

Don't mind ignore. I've set out to see how many can I actively break...

CramCycle · 18-04-2021 4:20pm

Other than training by feel and the tan lines, I am happy to say I have broken every single rule there.

tomasrojo · 19-04-2021 10:53am

I'm late to this thread, but I discovered years ago that rubber-soled footwear and platform pedals with pins worked well together (as others have said), and I've used that combination ever since. I don't have a road bike though. I do have a touring bike with dropped handlebars, but you'd never mistake it for something suitable for competition.

If you want to wear much the same clothes when you got out on bike as you would walking or taking public transport, platforms with pins are pretty secure, and allow you to have pretty good foot security in the wet in normal shoes. If you're in a cycling club, I suppose you might want to do as the others.

fryup · 19-04-2021 11:24am

quenching wrote: »

Thanks all for the varying opinions. I’ll keep an open mind on the potential benefits of clipless pedals but I’m going to give flats a try for a while. I’m struggling to get comfortable with clipless, happy enough that I won’t fall off (did that enough times many years ago), but also happy that I’m not going to slip off some good flats with decent soled shoes.

Now where did I put those GAA shorts????

i was on your side via vie the flat pedals but then you had to spoil it

GAA shorts? ffs man!

quenching · 20-04-2021 12:00am

fryup wrote: »

i was on your side via vie the flat pedals but then you had to spoil it

GAA shorts? ffs man!

Don’t worry, I’m happy enough in bibs. Some things I’m willing to accept are beneficial.

Flats are working well so far too, I don’t seem to be any slower or more tired,

Wishbone Ash · 20-04-2021 12:14am

quenching wrote: »

....Flats are working well so far too, I don’t seem to be any slower or more tired....

In your opening post you implied that you had not tried anything other than flats. I'm not trying to be argumentative but how can you you claim that you aren't any slower or more tired if you haven't compared both?

MojoMaker · 20-04-2021 2:06pm

I'm not sure how it can't fail to make a difference - I mean part of proper pedal rotation mechanics in road cycling is pulling up on the pedal with the opposite leg, which road pedals are obviously designed to facilitate.

You just can't execute this on pedals with no fixed connection between shoe and pedal.

tomasrojo · 20-04-2021 2:31pm

MojoMaker wrote: »

I'm not sure how it can't fail to make a difference - I mean part of proper pedal rotation mechanics in road cycling is pulling up on the pedal with the opposite leg, which road pedals are obviously designed to facilitate.

You just can't execute this on pedals with no fixed connection between shoe and pedal.

I think this has been looked into though, and people apparently don't really pull up on the pedal. Or if they do, it doesn't help them.

I don't know. I don't do competitive cycling and I can easily do 50-60km on flat pedals, and that's the max distance I'd typically have to do in a day, so I don't think about it much.

There's something about it here, but I am not remotely qualified to judge it.
https://www.bikejames.com/strength/does-this-video-really-prove-that-flats-are-more-efficient-than-clipless-pedals/

CramCycle · 20-04-2021 4:26pm

I'll dig out the papers later but, apparently, on the flat it really makes negligible difference, the only time it is known to make a difference is sprinting (foot slippage), hill climbing at race pace (same) and hill climbing a hill you can barely climb (you can pull up against the pedal).

CramCycle · 20-04-2021 9:23pm

Now there are flaws with the studies:
1. No efficiency gains found, flawed in that it is quite low power, and the non significant sway in favour of clipless I imagine could be greater at higher power or certain situations. It also has the great issue of every sports science paper ever written, its not got enough people involved. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/19424280.2016.1140817?subid1=20210421-0605-2813-a70f-82a238165702

2. This one implies that there is less work done with clipless, can't get into the full article though to see all the details. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11441642/

3. This one says, once its submaximal, there is little difference, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18418807/ Once over maximal though, it appears you can get more out while being less efficient, I have to read it more thoroughly though.

4. Again cycling efficiency doesn't change but small numbers and sub maximal https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02640410701332507

The one thing that does come up quite consistently though is that clipless do seem to suffer less stress at the joints and consequently (a presumption) less injuries.

What’s wrong with flat pedals on a road bike?

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