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Bank of Ireland shares

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    #1202
    PHG
    Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭PHG


    Got out at 420 last week. A bit annoyed seeing the news today but was in under 200 and needed the money for the mortgage deposit. TBF if you had given me that price when I bought 10 months ago I would have snapped the hand off


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    #1203
    Chuckie_Egg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭Chuckie_Egg


    Market is liking something today, Share price up over 4.60 now.
    KBC deal looks like a real sweet one for BOI, no non performing assets to be sold plus the loan book is at a discount and KBC customers are being taken by BOI


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    #1204
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    just goes to show the level of shorting which took place for much of last year , down to 1.30

    nuts when you think about it , it was never in danger of going under like during the crisis


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    #1205
    cute geoge
    Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭cute geoge


    In lay man english what is shorting ,is it the likes of blackrock sell off a small persentage at a low price maybe even sell to another subsidery of their company so they can destabilise the price to drive price lower and then hoover up as many shares without the price rising too much


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    #1206
    Smee_Again
    Registered Users Posts: 1,999 ✭✭✭Smee_Again


    cute geoge wrote: »
    In lay man english what is shorting ,is it the likes of blackrock sell off a small persentage at a low price maybe even sell to another subsidery of their company so they can destabilise the price to drive price lower and then hoover up as many shares without the price rising too much

    I borrow 100 shares and sell them at the current price of €1, now I owe 100 shares but have €100 in my pocket.

    If/when the share price falls to €0.50 I buy them back from anyone willing to sell them and return them to the original owner.

    So, I sold them for €100 but only had to buy them for €50, I pocket the €50.

    There'll be interest due on the original loan of 100 shares, but that's it in a nutshell.


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    #1207
    Dinarius
    Registered Users Posts: 3,395 ✭✭✭Dinarius


    cute geoge wrote: »
    In lay man english what is shorting ,is it the likes of blackrock sell off a small persentage at a low price maybe even sell to another subsidery of their company so they can destabilise the price to drive price lower and then hoover up as many shares without the price rising too much


    Shorting is borrowing shares from someone who owns them already (there are mechanisms for doing this) and selling them in the hope that the price will fall.


    You then buy the shares again and give them back to the original owner.

    E.g. You borrow shares priced at €1.00. You sell them at €1.00 and the following week they're at €0.50. You now buy them at €0.50 and give them back to the original owner and pocket 50c per share. Make sense?


    If you don't go the orthodox route of borrowing kosher shares, you can short in the derivatives market.



    REMEMBER: If you buy a share for €1.00 and the company goes bust, you lose €1.00. But, if you sell short a share for €1.00 and the following day Facebook buys the company for €10.00, you've lost €9.00 per share.


    The losses from shorting are, theoretically, UNLIMITED! Beware!



    D.


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    #1208
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,344 ✭ [Deleted User]


    cute geoge wrote: »
    In lay man english what is shorting ,is it the likes of blackrock sell off a small persentage at a low price maybe even sell to another subsidery of their company so they can destabilise the price to drive price lower and then hoover up as many shares without the price rising too much


    A bit " off tooic" but along the same lines.....a great movie on Netflix called the " big short". Its the tale of some very savvy investors/ gamblers betting AGAINST the US property market...... basically it shows how the US banks were throwing monet at the US SUB prime property market....you had taxi drivers & strippers getting multiple mortgages on the theory that property prices could only go the one way.....and we all know how that worked out


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    #1209
    Chuckie_Egg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭Chuckie_Egg


    is that on TV tonight or was it on last night?


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    #1210
    Dinarius
    Registered Users Posts: 3,395 ✭✭✭Dinarius


    Pretty much all you need to know about short selling and why it’s still allowed (because the best short sellers engage in a kind of winnowing process, killing off some of the junk companies in the market)

    https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/maintain-short-position-delisted-stock/

    D.


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    #1211
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,344 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Chuckie_Egg wrote: »
    is that on TV tonight or was it on last night?


    Jeez.....its been a couple years since I watched terrestrial TV, its all streamed now. What I liked about that movie was the way that they had borrowed off some of the banks that got ' shorted" in the end


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    #1212
    ingeneer
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭ingeneer


    Was up at 4.80 for a while this morning - some run! Would be great to hit 5 over the next few months. Only wish I had bought more now :p


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    #1213
    richie123
    Registered Users Posts: 790 ✭✭✭richie123


    ingeneer wrote: »
    Was up at 4.80 for a while this morning - some run! Would be great to hit 5 over the next few months. Only wish I had bought more now :p

    Bloody annoying was gonna buy at 4 then 4 20 never bit d bullet,my initial investment from years ago won't break even till it hits 8 euro! Will it ever happen..the million dollar question.


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    #1214
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,159 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    richie123 wrote: »
    Bloody annoying was gonna buy at 4 then 4 20 never bit d bullet,my initial investment from years ago won't break even till it hits 8 euro! Will it ever happen..the million dollar question.

    Buy when there is blood on the streets. I am on a good run at present dumped other share and went into the three financials, has share holding in both before so it dropped a bit.I am well.in bonus territory at present.

    Got in at different prices

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #1215
    richie123
    Registered Users Posts: 790 ✭✭✭richie123


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    Buy when there is blood on the streets. I am on a good run at present dumped other share and went into the three financials, has share holding in both before so it dropped a bit.I am well.in bonus territory at present.

    Got in at different prices

    Fair play to you what platform do u mainly use ?I'm waiting for a pullback lol..ah I cant complain im invested even if its at a ridiculous high price you won't get them all right and that's for sure !


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    #1216
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,159 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    richie123 wrote: »
    Fair play to you what platform do u mainly use ?I'm waiting for a pullback lol..ah I cant complain im invested even if its at a ridiculous high price you won't get them all right and that's for sure !

    I with Davy for a few years must move but undecided who to go to

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #1217
    Chuckie_Egg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭Chuckie_Egg


    richie123 wrote: »
    Bloody annoying was gonna buy at 4 then 4 20 never bit d bullet,my initial investment from years ago won't break even till it hits 8 euro! Will it ever happen..the million dollar question.

    8 euro with 1 billion shares is an 8 billion euro market cap.
    The Bank in a very very healthy position and getting better. We could see a share buy back program announced next year which would be better than a dividend imho.
    So do you believe that one of the two major banks in Ireland could have a much higher market cap than the current one?


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    #1218
    richie123
    Registered Users Posts: 790 ✭✭✭richie123


    Chuckie_Egg wrote: »
    8 euro with 1 billion shares is an 8 billion euro market cap.
    The Bank in a very very healthy position and getting better. We could see a share buy back program announced next year which would be better than a dividend imho.
    So do you believe that one of the two major banks in Ireland could have a much higher market cap than the current one?

    True its shortly gona hit 5 euro...its rocketimg in just few weeks..thank god.lucky I left it alone and forgot about it.


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    #1219
    Morleystreet
    Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭Morleystreet


    The Q1 2021 update issued today and seems to have gone down well. Below from Davy’s

    “Bank of Ireland (BOI) started 2021 strongly, with lending balances, new lending, net interest margin (NIM) and ongoing cost performance supporting a better underlying outcome in Q1 – all despite the ongoing challenges posed by the extreme nature of the Irish lockdown. The strong performance indicates upside to our (and consensus forecast) PBT of c.10% on better net interest income (NII). Asset quality remains robust, with potential upside from the half-yearly asset quality review. This is a very supportive update coming ahead of the significant earnings catalyst from its KBC transactioN”


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    #1220
    Dinarius
    Registered Users Posts: 3,395 ✭✭✭Dinarius


    Share buybacks are often something of a scam - intended to make share prices hit certain targets in a given timeframe, so as to boost directors’ share performance bonuses.

    They simply reduce the free float. Not necessarily a reflection of fair value.

    Anyone prefer dividends?

    D.


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    #1221
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,159 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    They went over 5/share this morning before dropping back below it but continuing to assist the 5/share. AIB is struggling to maintain any momentum compared to BOI. Weeks ago it share price was at 55-60% of BOI but not BOI is powering on. PTSB is within reach of 1.4/share.

    Off there approx lows
    BOI from 1.35/share to 5/share. Gain 3.7
    AIB from 75c to 2-45/share. Gain 3.3
    PTSB from 45c to 1.39/share. Gain 3.1

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #1222
    Wheety
    Registered Users Posts: 5,510 ✭✭✭Wheety


    I don't know the exact figures but I had a fair few shares when they were around €7 (after the consolidation). Bought a load more when it was around €2 to bring my BEP down to around €4 so anything extra now is a bonus.

    I had sold my Ryanair holding in a similar fashion. Bought when the price crashed to bring down my BEP, got out when I was able to break even and flights had started to be cancelled so I thought they would drop again and I could get in at a lower price but they've held their price well.

    Not sure on BOI. I think I'll hold for a while longer.


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    #1223
    Morleystreet
    Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭Morleystreet


    Up at near €5 at one point today, but end up down over 4% today which is a big drop. Wonder what caused that given recent positive news. Be interesting to see what happens tomorrow.


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    #1224
    Chuckie_Egg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭Chuckie_Egg


    Morleystreet wrote: »
    Up at near €5 at one point today, but end up down over 4% today which is a big drop. Wonder what caused that given recent positive news. Be interesting to see what happens tomorrow.

    Hit €5.09 at one stage then fell on the market sell off. Interesting buy at €4.98 after hours though. Seems to be the same buyer who crops up after hours with a while now


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    #1225
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,834 ✭✭✭daheff


    There was a report on IT about BOI passing on negative interest to account holders with>1m in cash.

    Can see an outflow of cash on this. Why leave money in B rated bank when you can leave it elsewhere in an A rated bank. At least with no interest there was a reason.


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    #1226
    cal naughton
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭cal naughton


    daheff wrote: »
    There was a report on IT about BOI passing on negative interest to account holders with>1m in cash.

    Can see an outflow of cash on this. Why leave money in B rated bank when you can leave it elsewhere in an A rated bank. At least with no interest there was a reason.

    If there is an outflow of cash BOI will be absolutely thrilled as it's costing them money to have excess cash on the balance sheet. Also you say BOI is a b rated bank. If they are B rated who is A rated?


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    #1227
    sk8board
    Registered Users Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭sk8board


    daheff wrote: »
    There was a report on IT about BOI passing on negative interest to account holders with>1m in cash.

    Can see an outflow of cash on this. Why leave money in B rated bank when you can leave it elsewhere in an A rated bank. At least with no interest there was a reason.

    The negative interest rates are specifically to encourage outflows.

    Generally, I’m liking what BOI are doing lately - cost cutting going well, and KBC and Davy appear to be falling into their arms, acquired without need to raise capital.

    I bought 8,500 birg shares in the silly dip last May when their mark to market was just 0.17, as a medium term play (€1.34 avg), but fluked the timing and they bottomed that day or the next.
    Will wait to see what the dividend is next year and then decide to keep or dump. I’m semi-retired, so the dividend would be nice, albeit they’re nearing overweight in my overall portfolio.


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    #1228
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,834 ✭✭✭daheff


    cal naughton wrote: »
    If there is an outflow of cash BOI will be absolutely thrilled as it's costing them money to have excess cash on the balance sheet. Also you say BOI is a b rated bank. If they are B rated who is A rated?

    When you are talking about that size of depositor you would be looking at an account with one of the big boys really. Offshore, etc etc.

    Not so sure any of the banks would be so keen to see deposit book diminish, regardless of what they say publically.


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    #1229
    ingeneer
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭ingeneer


    Another good day for the share price - 5.24 at the moment


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    #1230
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,159 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    ingeneer wrote: »
    Another good day for the share price - 5.24 at the moment

    As a friend of mine used to say its like riding a Rhinoceros you have to stay on board its too dangerous to second think it that comining off might be an option. Share account will do close to 1K today across the three banks

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #1231
    ingeneer
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭ingeneer


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    As a friend of mine used to say its like riding a Rhinoceros you have to stay on board its too dangerous to second think it that comining off might be an option. Share account will do close to 1K today across the three banks

    That's a good days returns. Yeah it's hard to guess it right. My "strategy" is to stay in until (if!) it reaches its 8euro 5 year high (hit this during 2018). I think the bank is in a better position now than it was then (Davys potential purchase, KBC gone, Irish economy likely to bounce back ok-ish).

    I might sell some at the end of the year to use my CGT allowance too, and buy back in 28 days later if it is still down below 8.

    If dividends start again I might keep it for the foreseeable future.


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