Madeleine McCann

What “evidence of an abduction” are people looking for exactly? A note saying “I’ve kidnapped your child”?
This is the real world. Most abductors just get in and out as quickly as possible and many leave no trace of their presence whatsoever.
I think the absence of a child is evidence enough.

splinter65 wrote: »

Best practice in every single country in the developed world is that immediate family stay put while professionals search. Surely you know this.

That maybe true but that would only apply one the police got there and got the situation under control.
I can't imagine any parent not spending those minutes before the police arrived not searching

I once saw a woman looking for her child that ran off . She was running around , shouting his name and looking everywhere. That the way I would expect a parent to react

retro:electro wrote: »

What “evidence of an abduction” are people looking for exactly? A note saying “I’ve kidnapped your child”?
This is the real world. Most abductors just get in and out as quickly as possible and many leave no trace of their presence whatsoever.
I think the absence of a child is evidence enough.

By that logic then the lack of a child is just as much evidence that they killed her.

You would imagine a stranger going into a dark unfamiliar room would knock something or leave a footprint, be a struggle ,make a noise or something.
No evidence doesn't mean it didn't happen but it makes it less likely

the_pen_turner wrote: »

That maybe true but that would only apply one the police got there and got the situation under control.
I can't imagine any parent not spending those minutes before the police arrived not searching

I once saw a woman looking for her child that ran off . She was running around , shouting his name and looking everywhere. That the way I would expect a parent to react

I was in P da L a year later and I actually found myself looking for Madeleine . I knew in my head she was not going to be sitting on a fence waiting untill I found her but I still looked in ditches etc as I past them .Daft I know .Its an instinct that is primal in a parent I think .That awful moment of horror and the frantic searching and calling and looking is a natural instinct . I of course dont know how I would react in the Mc Canns situation but all my instincts tell me I would search and dig up the beach with my hands and look in every blessed bin . I cannot imagine I would sit at home waiting for someone else to look as I would trust them to do it right .

bunderoon wrote: »

Again, the dogs hold the key to this whole situation. Sometimes they can be inaccurate but they obviously dont lie.

Scent of cadavor were found in multiple places in the apartment and also in the back of the car (and her blood) they hired 25 days AFTER she went missing.
He dumped the fridge freezer from the apartment.
His gym bag is missing.

The list goes on. Stack the circumstantial evidence for abduction vs coverup and the latter is much larger.
Look at the facts and not let your feelings getting in the way of judgement.

Its a harrowing case alright.

What's the story with fridge freezer

I find it funny how some posters are so positively sure of the McCann's involvement, yet nobody can come up with any reasonable and moderately credible account of what happened? "Come on, there's a reason they're suspects!", isn't good enough. Their involvement makes no sense- How? Why? When? Nobody can answer those three simple questions without it turning completely ridiculous and absurd.

The most likely scenario is that she was taken. The family were at dinner, taking it in turns to check on the kids, maybe someone spotted this? realised the kids were alone, and acted. It was more than likely a lone abductor- hence him taking just one child. Maybe Madeline woke up, he panicked and took her. Maybe he would have taken her irregardless.

I don't find Kate and Gerry particularly warm people. They're cold and probably a little odd. But I do believe that Kate especially is absolutely haunted by what happened to Madeline. I remember about 9 years ago watching a documentary about the aftermath and up until I watched it I was a little suspicious about them. I can't remember the name of it but I'll look for it and try to link it. It allowed cameras inside their home and it just showed how utterly tormented Kate is and how she spends every waking moment sifting through articles and her pain was totally palpable.
It’s almost like people want them to have done it.

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Post #460.

Yes, post #460, which I wrote, reads as:

Its quite common in missing child investigations for the police force to not allow the parents go searching. Statistically, most children who are abducted end up dead and are found in close proximity to where they were taken from.
It makes sense that they wouldn't be allowed search for her for fear they would discover her body.

I offered it as a reason as to why they may not have searched for her. I never said it was definitively the case, just that it was common in missing children cases.
Try again.

retro:electro wrote: »

I find it funny how some posters are so positively sure of the McCann's involvement, yet nobody can come up with any reasonable and moderately credible account of what happened? "Come on, there's a reason they're suspects!", isn't good enough. Their involvement makes no sense- How? Why? When? Nobody can answer those three simple questions without it turning completely ridiculous and absurd.

The most likely scenario is that she was taken. The family were at dinner, taking it in turns to check on the kids, maybe someone spotted this? realised the kids were alone, and acted. It was more than likely a lone abductor- hence him taking just one child. Maybe Madeline woke up, he panicked and took her. Maybe he would have taken her irregardless.

I don't find Kate and Gerry particularly warm people. They're cold and probably a little odd. But I do believe that Kate especially is absolutely haunted by what happened to Madeline. I remember about 9 years ago watching a documentary about the aftermath and up until I watched it I was a little suspicious about them. I can't remember the name of it but I'll look for it and try to link it. It allowed cameras inside their home and it just showed how utterly tormented Kate is and how she spends every waking moment sifting through articles and her pain was totally palpable.
It’s almost like people want them to have done it.

I don't think anyone wants the parents to gave done it. I don't . But I do want the truth to come out

I also think the most likely thing to have happened is that something happened to her in that apartment because she was left alone. I don't think they murdered her but some kind of accident happened.
If you leave 3 children alone often enough one is probably going to hurt itself.

The chances of an abductor are a huge amount less likely

retro:electro wrote: »

I find it funny how some posters are so positively sure of the McCann's involvement, yet nobody can come up with any reasonable and moderately credible account of what happened? "Come on, there's a reason they're suspects!", isn't good enough. Their involvement makes no sense- How? Why? When? Nobody can answer those three simple questions without it turning completely ridiculous and absurd.

The most likely scenario is that she was taken. The family were at dinner, taking it in turns to check on the kids, maybe someone spotted this? realised the kids were alone, and acted. It was more than likely a lone abductor- hence him taking just one child. Maybe Madeline woke up, he panicked and took her. Maybe he would have taken her irregardless.

I don't find Kate and Gerry particularly warm people. They're cold and probably a little odd. But I do believe that Kate especially is absolutely haunted by what happened to Madeline. I remember about 9 years ago watching a documentary about the aftermath and up until I watched it I was a little suspicious about them. I can't remember the name of it but I'll look for it and try to link it. It allowed cameras inside their home and it just showed how utterly tormented Kate is and how she spends every waking moment sifting through articles and her pain was totally palpable.
It’s almost like people want them to have done it.

Certain people decided that the McCanns were guilty within 72 hours of the incident. They were certain of an arrest and a confession and swift punishment within hours, then days, then weeks.
It didn’t happen. Certain section of society is egotistic enough not to ever want to concede that their gut instinct was wrong, ever.
Frustration set in. Facts, as few as they were, and still are, got confused with unconfirmed rumors and vague suggestions until a theory was reached.
The theory is pointless because it cannot be explained even remotely as there are far far too many holes in it some of them almost laughable if it wasn’t so sad.
12 years later the most important thing seems to be that no one wants to concede that maybe Madeleine was abducted.
Ask any of the “the McCanns did it” theorists to explain how when where and why they did it and see how that goes.

Disposable1 wrote: »

Dude come on, plenty of parents murder their kids and cover it up. YOU couldn't do it, which is admirable, you don't want to believe this is a possibility, again this indicates you're a good person, but the reality is that parents kill their children often, and they try to cover it up, they try to get away with it. And if you're middle class, like the McCanns or the Ramseys, you can get away with it.

So middle class people are all psychotic. It’s the preserve of the middle class. Or is it that middle class people that are psychotic get away with it?
A psychotic consultant cardiologist and his psychotic GP wife who live and work amongst us undiscovered.
Your theory is interesting.
And yes parents kill kids and try to cover it up but I’d be obliged if you could give me an example of such a famous case or any case where parents covered it up and got away with it.
For 12 years now and counting.

Steve F wrote: »

Three words Fred and Rose
Again,not being provocative just pointing out that it can,and does happen

Sorry no not the same thing at all. Fred and Rose West were in it together. They both did the murders. Neither was a reluctant recruit. Nobody needed persuading to be quiet. They progressed from sadistic sexual persuasions to living out their fantasies.
Try harder.

Steve F wrote: »

Three words Fred and Rose
Again,not being provocative just pointing out that it can,and does happen

Fred murdered 8/9 other women besides his daughter Heather, and the only murder Rose was convicted of was of her stepchild.
Comparing them to the McCann's is like comparing apples and oranges.
Rose worked as a prostitute and had been sexually abused by her own father well into adulthood.
They both sexually abused their other children.
And they also didn't get away with it, they were convicted and sentenced for their crimes.
Completely different family dynamics and circumstance.

You cannot use the West's for justification of thinking the McCann's are guilty when they are in no way similar.

Dog Man Star wrote: »

It's not psychotic undiscovered villains. It's two parents covering up the accidental death of their daughter to avoid losing their other two children. It's perfectly rational and understandable to anyone who has children.

Madeline was gone, they could never get her back. They do what's best for their other two children, to keep the family together.

Can you enlighten us with your thoughts of what you believe happened that day? You’re so sure they were involved so I’m sure you have a rock solid bullet proof theory established. One that isn’t just blaming the parents for the sake of it.

Dog Man Star wrote: »

It's not psychotic undiscovered villains. It's two parents covering up the accidental death of their daughter to avoid losing their other two children. It's perfectly rational and understandable to anyone who has children.

Madeline was gone, they could never get her back. They do what's best for their other two children, to keep the family together.

I have children. It bothers me that you think it’s rational and understandable that you would want to cover up the death of your child under any circumstances.
That’s insane. No sane person would think that.
In shock and horror and grief that you could calmly reason out that an elaborate cover up plan is the best course of action.
When your reading this does it not seem ludicrous to you? Are you really incapable of picturing the scenario and seeing that it’s just not possible?
And to keep it up for 12+ years?!? And how do you explain how such a hastily concocted and executed plan has failed to be unraveled by whole teams of detectives from at least two police courses from two countries?
If you could even give us some insight into what the plan was and how it was executed at the time, never mind explain who or how it was dreamed up... but you can’t because given the few facts that we have none of the nonsensical scenarios fit, do they?
But carry on...

Dog Man Star wrote: »

Quoting me out of context.

I really didn’t.

Dog Man Star wrote: »

Well if she died accidentally while you were both out having dinner, you might feel somewhat involved too.

Attacking my character doesn't get away from the facts unfortunately. It does get away from this thread topic though.

Very true.
I can't imagine the guilt as a mother you would feel from knowing you were responsible for your own child's death.
I can't imagine there is anything in this world worse than that.
Not even losing your other children to social services would be worse than that.

I imagine the pain would be so bad, the last thing I'd be concerned about in the minutes after discovering this, would be protecting myself & my husband.
Let alone concocting a mastermind plan to ensure we both get off scott free.

Getting locked up for the rest of my life would never compare to the pain of knowing I caused the death of my child. That's why it isn't plausible.

Babooshka wrote: »

I can't even follow this thread any more, I'm so horrified at people asking questions about bins. I'm not saying humans aren't capable of such stuff but I have a daughter almost the same age and I'm so sad even thinking anyone could throw a dead child in a bin. I don't know that they didn't do it, but even if they did, speculating about it in this way is just macabre. You'd have to be pretty mental in the head to do that.

I suppose you consider the parents were totally within their rights to leave their babies alone at night though.

Anything could have happened.

Anything

But bye bye anyway.

Dog Man Star wrote: »

"It's two parents covering up the accidental death of their daughter to avoid losing their other two children."

You go to check on your children and find your nearly 4 year old daughter has fallen out of bed and broken her neck. She’s dead. Your on holidays with a large party. Your twins are fast asleep. Your wife is outside with your friends drinking a glass of wine.....so, go, tell us what happened then, in your mind....
Because in my mind I’m running with my dead child in my arms screaming “help me help me! Get a ****ing ambulance!! Help me Jesus help me! Kate Maddie’s dead she’s fallen! “
I think this is most people’s reaction but not you.
I know of two families who lost small kids in accidents at home, one on a farm and this is what happened. Funnily enough on neither occasion was there a calm rational conversation about the possible consequences re other children being taken into care.
I’d imagine your surprised to hear that.
So go ahead and tell us what you think happened next.