Madeleine McCann

bunderoon · 06-11-2018 02:58PM

Something Else

Dog Man Star wrote: »

Any evidence at all. A forced lock, forensic, a stray hair, a fingerprint, a footprint, a witness, some noise, a sighting, circumstantial, anything. Anything other than none whatsoever. Because that's what there is, none whatsoever.

Ok then.

Again, the dogs hold the key to this whole situation. Sometimes they can be inaccurate but they obviously dont lie.

Scent of cadavor were found in multiple places in the apartment and also in the back of the car (and her blood) they hired 25 days AFTER she went missing.
He dumped the fridge freezer from the apartment.
His gym bag is missing.

The list goes on. Stack the circumstantial evidence for abduction vs coverup and the latter is much larger.
Look at the facts and not let your feelings getting in the way of judgement.

Its a harrowing case alright.

the_pen_turner · 06-11-2018 03:03PM

Something Else

bunderoon wrote: »

Again, the dogs hold the key to this whole situation. Sometimes they can be inaccurate but they obviously dont lie.

Scent of cadavor were found in multiple places in the apartment and also in the back of the car (and her blood) they hired 25 days AFTER she went missing.
He dumped the fridge freezer from the apartment.
His gym bag is missing.

The list goes on. Stack the circumstantial evidence for abduction vs coverup and the latter is much larger.
Look at the facts and not let your feelings getting in the way of judgement.

Its a harrowing case alright.

What's the story with fridge freezer

SusieBlue · 06-11-2018 03:06PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You claimed they were not allowed participate in a search for her.

I didn't. I said it wasn't uncommon for police forces to forbid parents from taking part in the search for their missing children, and that it wouldn't shock me if that was the case in this situation.

Plumbthedepths · 06-11-2018 03:14PM

SusieBlue wrote:

I didn't. I said it wasn't uncommon for police forces to forbid parents from taking part in the search for their missing children, and that it wouldn't shock me if that was the case in this situation.

Post #460.

cnocbui · 06-11-2018 03:14PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

bunderoon wrote: »

Again, the dogs hold the key to this whole situation. Sometimes they can be inaccurate but they obviously dont lie.

Scent of cadavor were found in multiple places in the apartment and also in the back of the car (and her blood) they hired 25 days AFTER she went missing.
He dumped the fridge freezer from the apartment.
His gym bag is missing.

The list goes on. Stack the circumstantial evidence for abduction vs coverup and the latter is much larger.
Look at the facts and not let your feelings getting in the way of judgement.

Its a harrowing case alright.

No blood has ever been found. No cadaver has ever been found. The same dogs proved to be £20 million worth of unreliable on the island of Jersey.

Dogs can assist investigators in finding evidence, their actions can't and don't provide evidence.

The dogs are not a key to anything, except perhaps for opening a tin of red herrings.

retro:electro · 06-11-2018 03:16PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

I find it funny how some posters are so positively sure of the McCann's involvement, yet nobody can come up with any reasonable and moderately credible account of what happened? "Come on, there's a reason they're suspects!", isn't good enough. Their involvement makes no sense- How? Why? When? Nobody can answer those three simple questions without it turning completely ridiculous and absurd.

The most likely scenario is that she was taken. The family were at dinner, taking it in turns to check on the kids, maybe someone spotted this? realised the kids were alone, and acted. It was more than likely a lone abductor- hence him taking just one child. Maybe Madeline woke up, he panicked and took her. Maybe he would have taken her irregardless.

I don't find Kate and Gerry particularly warm people. They're cold and probably a little odd. But I do believe that Kate especially is absolutely haunted by what happened to Madeline. I remember about 9 years ago watching a documentary about the aftermath and up until I watched it I was a little suspicious about them. I can't remember the name of it but I'll look for it and try to link it. It allowed cameras inside their home and it just showed how utterly tormented Kate is and how she spends every waking moment sifting through articles and her pain was totally palpable.
It’s almost like people want them to have done it.

splinter65 · 06-11-2018 03:17PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Steve F wrote: »

Yes,thats my question. If it's what happened or not I have no idea

The answer to your question is this. No. Its not possible to convince the mother of a child you’ve just killed to play along with your lie for 12 years and counting.
It’s odd that I have to explain this.

SusieBlue · 06-11-2018 03:19PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Post #460.

Yes, post #460, which I wrote, reads as:

Its quite common in missing child investigations for the police force to not allow the parents go searching. Statistically, most children who are abducted end up dead and are found in close proximity to where they were taken from.
It makes sense that they wouldn't be allowed search for her for fear they would discover her body.

I offered it as a reason as to why they may not have searched for her. I never said it was definitively the case, just that it was common in missing children cases.
Try again.

iamwhoiam · 06-11-2018 03:24PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

retro:electro wrote: »

I find it funny how some posters are so positively sure of the McCann's involvement, yet nobody can come up with any reasonable and moderately credible account of what happened? "Come on, there's a reason they're suspects!", isn't good enough. Their involvement makes no sense- How? Why? When? Nobody can answer those three simple questions without it turning completely ridiculous and absurd.

The most likely scenario is that she was taken. The family were at dinner, taking it in turns to check on the kids, maybe someone spotted this? realised the kids were alone, and acted. It was more than likely a lone abductor- hence him taking just one child. Maybe Madeline woke up, he panicked and took her. Maybe he would have taken her irregardless.

I don't find Kate and Gerry particularly warm people. They're cold and probably a little odd. But I do believe that Kate especially is absolutely haunted by what happened to Madeline. I remember about 9 years ago watching a documentary about the aftermath and up until I watched it I was a little suspicious about them. I can't remember the name of it but I'll look for it and try to link it. It allowed cameras inside their home and it just showed how utterly tormented Kate is and how she spends every waking moment sifting through articles and her pain was totally palpable.
t.

I think it was planned as it was so clean and nothing left behind.I am more inclined to think it was an inside job by someone who passed on the message that the kids were left and the pattern repeated nightly . The group booked the table ahead for the next few nights , the pattern was establishes
Also more likely to be a couple , one in a car , one in and grab and away into the dark countryside north of the village in minutes

the_pen_turner · 06-11-2018 03:27PM

Something Else

retro:electro wrote: »

I find it funny how some posters are so positively sure of the McCann's involvement, yet nobody can come up with any reasonable and moderately credible account of what happened? "Come on, there's a reason they're suspects!", isn't good enough. Their involvement makes no sense- How? Why? When? Nobody can answer those three simple questions without it turning completely ridiculous and absurd.

The most likely scenario is that she was taken. The family were at dinner, taking it in turns to check on the kids, maybe someone spotted this? realised the kids were alone, and acted. It was more than likely a lone abductor- hence him taking just one child. Maybe Madeline woke up, he panicked and took her. Maybe he would have taken her irregardless.

I don't find Kate and Gerry particularly warm people. They're cold and probably a little odd. But I do believe that Kate especially is absolutely haunted by what happened to Madeline. I remember about 9 years ago watching a documentary about the aftermath and up until I watched it I was a little suspicious about them. I can't remember the name of it but I'll look for it and try to link it. It allowed cameras inside their home and it just showed how utterly tormented Kate is and how she spends every waking moment sifting through articles and her pain was totally palpable.
It’s almost like people want them to have done it.

I don't think anyone wants the parents to gave done it. I don't . But I do want the truth to come out

I also think the most likely thing to have happened is that something happened to her in that apartment because she was left alone. I don't think they murdered her but some kind of accident happened.
If you leave 3 children alone often enough one is probably going to hurt itself.

The chances of an abductor are a huge amount less likely

Disposable1 · 06-11-2018 03:28PM

smelly sock wrote: »

Being a parent i dont think any mother or father could knowingly cover it up and act it out for all these years.

I would say the child was snatched. Any of the missing kids cases is heart breaking.

Dude come on, plenty of parents murder their kids and cover it up. YOU couldn't do it, which is admirable, you don't want to believe this is a possibility, again this indicates you're a good person, but the reality is that parents kill their children often, and they try to cover it up, they try to get away with it. And if you're middle class, like the McCanns or the Ramseys, you can get away with it.

splinter65 · 06-11-2018 03:29PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

retro:electro wrote: »

I find it funny how some posters are so positively sure of the McCann's involvement, yet nobody can come up with any reasonable and moderately credible account of what happened? "Come on, there's a reason they're suspects!", isn't good enough. Their involvement makes no sense- How? Why? When? Nobody can answer those three simple questions without it turning completely ridiculous and absurd.

The most likely scenario is that she was taken. The family were at dinner, taking it in turns to check on the kids, maybe someone spotted this? realised the kids were alone, and acted. It was more than likely a lone abductor- hence him taking just one child. Maybe Madeline woke up, he panicked and took her. Maybe he would have taken her irregardless.

I don't find Kate and Gerry particularly warm people. They're cold and probably a little odd. But I do believe that Kate especially is absolutely haunted by what happened to Madeline. I remember about 9 years ago watching a documentary about the aftermath and up until I watched it I was a little suspicious about them. I can't remember the name of it but I'll look for it and try to link it. It allowed cameras inside their home and it just showed how utterly tormented Kate is and how she spends every waking moment sifting through articles and her pain was totally palpable.
It’s almost like people want them to have done it.

Certain people decided that the McCanns were guilty within 72 hours of the incident. They were certain of an arrest and a confession and swift punishment within hours, then days, then weeks.
It didn’t happen. Certain section of society is egotistic enough not to ever want to concede that their gut instinct was wrong, ever.
Frustration set in. Facts, as few as they were, and still are, got confused with unconfirmed rumors and vague suggestions until a theory was reached.
The theory is pointless because it cannot be explained even remotely as there are far far too many holes in it some of them almost laughable if it wasn’t so sad.
12 years later the most important thing seems to be that no one wants to concede that maybe Madeleine was abducted.
Ask any of the “the McCanns did it” theorists to explain how when where and why they did it and see how that goes.

SusieBlue · 06-11-2018 03:29PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

bunderoon wrote: »

Again, the dogs hold the key to this whole situation. Sometimes they can be inaccurate but they obviously dont lie.

Scent of cadavor were found in multiple places in the apartment and also in the back of the car (and her blood) they hired 25 days AFTER she went missing.
He dumped the fridge freezer from the apartment.
His gym bag is missing.

The list goes on. Stack the circumstantial evidence for abduction vs coverup and the latter is much larger.
Look at the facts and not let your feelings getting in the way of judgement.

Its a harrowing case alright.

Well if you are adamant that Madeleine's dead body was in the car 25 days after she went missing, it really should be very simple to prove and find.
This information was around 12 years ago.
Both Kate & Gerry were being bombarded by international media, as it was the most famous missing child case of that time.

If as you say Madeleine's body must have been in the car, then surely, someone in the media must have spotted them dumping it when their every move was being followed. Or at least spotted them putting it in the car.

Why is there no evidence of this, if this is the case? Unless you are suggesting the worlds media was in cahoots with the McCanns as well?

I know it would be nice to neatly tie this all up by saying Gerry dumped her body in the (missing) gym bag, then took her away in the car and got rid of the body.
But if it was that simple, how were they not found out by now?

Steve F · 06-11-2018 03:32PM

splinter65 wrote: »

The answer to your question is this. No. Its not possible to convince the mother of a child you’ve just killed to play along with your lie for 12 years and counting.
It’s odd that I have to explain this.

Three words Fred and Rose
Again,not being provocative just pointing out that it can,and does happen

Spanish Eyes · 06-11-2018 03:36PM

Gerry and the tennis bag..... sorry now and if I get a warning so be it...but would the bins have been collected before anyone was alerted about the missing child?

I know it sounds awful, but at this stage all we have are theories.

At the end of the day the parents left three babies alone at night in a foreign country. That is the ONE absolute fact we know. Remember.

splinter65 · 06-11-2018 03:36PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Disposable1 wrote: »

Dude come on, plenty of parents murder their kids and cover it up. YOU couldn't do it, which is admirable, you don't want to believe this is a possibility, again this indicates you're a good person, but the reality is that parents kill their children often, and they try to cover it up, they try to get away with it. And if you're middle class, like the McCanns or the Ramseys, you can get away with it.

So middle class people are all psychotic. It’s the preserve of the middle class. Or is it that middle class people that are psychotic get away with it?
A psychotic consultant cardiologist and his psychotic GP wife who live and work amongst us undiscovered.
Your theory is interesting.
And yes parents kill kids and try to cover it up but I’d be obliged if you could give me an example of such a famous case or any case where parents covered it up and got away with it.
For 12 years now and counting.

Dog Man Star · 06-11-2018 03:40PM

splinter65 wrote: »

So middle class people are all psychotic. It’s the preserve of the middle class. Or is it that middle class people that are psychotic get away with it?
A psychotic consultant cardiologist and his psychotic GP wife who live and work amongst us undiscovered.
Your theory is interesting.
And yes parents kill kids and try to cover it up but I’d be obliged if you could give me an example of such a famous case or any case where parents covered it up and got away with it.
For 12 years now and counting.

It's not psychotic undiscovered villains. It's two parents covering up the accidental death of their daughter to avoid losing their other two children. It's perfectly rational and understandable to anyone who has children.

Madeline was gone, they could never get her back. They do what's best for their other two children, to keep the family together.

splinter65 · 06-11-2018 03:41PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Steve F wrote: »

Three words Fred and Rose
Again,not being provocative just pointing out that it can,and does happen

Sorry no not the same thing at all. Fred and Rose West were in it together. They both did the murders. Neither was a reluctant recruit. Nobody needed persuading to be quiet. They progressed from sadistic sexual persuasions to living out their fantasies.
Try harder.

Steve F · 06-11-2018 03:42PM

splinter65 wrote: »

So middle class people are all psychotic. It’s the preserve of the middle class. Or is it that middle class people that are psychotic get away with it?
A psychotic consultant cardiologist and his psychotic GP wife who live and work amongst us undiscovered.
Your theory is interesting.
And yes parents kill kids and try to cover it up but I’d be obliged if you could give me an example of such a famous case or any case where parents covered it up and got away with it.
For 12 years now and counting.

Again...Fred and Rose

SusieBlue · 06-11-2018 03:44PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Steve F wrote: »

Three words Fred and Rose
Again,not being provocative just pointing out that it can,and does happen

Fred murdered 8/9 other women besides his daughter Heather, and the only murder Rose was convicted of was of her stepchild.
Comparing them to the McCann's is like comparing apples and oranges.
Rose worked as a prostitute and had been sexually abused by her own father well into adulthood.
They both sexually abused their other children.
And they also didn't get away with it, they were convicted and sentenced for their crimes.
Completely different family dynamics and circumstance.

You cannot use the West's for justification of thinking the McCann's are guilty when they are in no way similar.

SusieBlue · 06-11-2018 03:47PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Dog Man Star wrote: »

It's not psychotic undiscovered villains. It's two parents covering up the accidental death of their daughter to avoid losing their other two children. It's perfectly rational and understandable to anyone who has children.

Madeline was gone, they could never get her back. They do what's best for their other two children, to keep the family together.

Sorry but that isn't perfectly rational and understandable at all.
If my husband accidentally killed my daughter & disposed of the body, I wouldn't be interested in protecting him or myself.
I imagine one would be so overcome with grief they'd barely be able to come up with a potential plan, let alone execute one so seamlessly it still has two different police forces baffled over a decade later.
If it was a snap decision like you are trying to say, they must be criminal masterminds.

retro:electro · 06-11-2018 03:48PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Dog Man Star wrote: »

It's not psychotic undiscovered villains. It's two parents covering up the accidental death of their daughter to avoid losing their other two children. It's perfectly rational and understandable to anyone who has children.

Madeline was gone, they could never get her back. They do what's best for their other two children, to keep the family together.

Can you enlighten us with your thoughts of what you believe happened that day? You’re so sure they were involved so I’m sure you have a rock solid bullet proof theory established. One that isn’t just blaming the parents for the sake of it.

Dog Man Star · 06-11-2018 03:48PM

splinter65 wrote: »

And yes parents kill kids and try to cover it up but I’d be obliged if you could give me an example of such a famous case or any case where parents covered it up and got away with it.
For 12 years now and counting.

Jeffrey McDonald (also a doctor) murdered his two daughters and his wife, blamed it on intruders, and got away with it for 9 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_R._MacDonald#Prosecution

During this time he made numerous appeals and tv appearances, some of which are on YouTube.

I believe Madeline McCann died in an accident, but you can see how these things can be covered up from this example.

Steve F · 06-11-2018 03:50PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

Fred murdered 8/9 other women besides his daughter Heather, and the only murder Rose was convicted of was of her stepchild.
Comparing them to the McCann's is like comparing apples and oranges.
Rose worked as a prostitute and had been sexually abused by her own father well into adulthood.
They both sexually abused their other children.
And they also didn't get away with it, they were convicted and sentenced for their crimes.
Completely different family dynamics and circumstance.

You cannot use the West's for justification of thinking the McCann's are guilty when they are in no way similar.

Susieblue
My main point was that posters are trying to say something has never happened when quite clearly it has.Other than that I can offer no more

retro:electro · 06-11-2018 03:50PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

SusieBlue wrote: »

Sorry but that isn't perfectly rational and understandable at all.
If my husband accidentally killed my daughter & disposed of the body, I wouldn't be interested in protecting him or myself.
I imagine one would be so overcome with grief they'd barely be able to come up with a potential plan, let alone execute one so seamlessly it still has two different police forces baffled over a decade later.
If it was a snap decision like you are trying to say, they must be criminal masterminds.

I wouldn’t like that poster to be in the care of my child if they think that covering up the death of a child is rational and understandable.

Worrying.

splinter65 · 06-11-2018 03:53PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Dog Man Star wrote: »

It's not psychotic undiscovered villains. It's two parents covering up the accidental death of their daughter to avoid losing their other two children. It's perfectly rational and understandable to anyone who has children.

Madeline was gone, they could never get her back. They do what's best for their other two children, to keep the family together.

I have children. It bothers me that you think it’s rational and understandable that you would want to cover up the death of your child under any circumstances.
That’s insane. No sane person would think that.
In shock and horror and grief that you could calmly reason out that an elaborate cover up plan is the best course of action.
When your reading this does it not seem ludicrous to you? Are you really incapable of picturing the scenario and seeing that it’s just not possible?
And to keep it up for 12+ years?!? And how do you explain how such a hastily concocted and executed plan has failed to be unraveled by whole teams of detectives from at least two police courses from two countries?
If you could even give us some insight into what the plan was and how it was executed at the time, never mind explain who or how it was dreamed up... but you can’t because given the few facts that we have none of the nonsensical scenarios fit, do they?
But carry on...

Babooshka · 06-11-2018 03:53PM

I can't even follow this thread any more, I'm so horrified at people asking questions about bins. I'm not saying humans aren't capable of such stuff but I have a daughter almost the same age and I'm so sad even thinking anyone could throw a dead child in a bin. I don't know that they didn't do it, but even if they did, speculating about it in this way is just macabre. You'd have to be pretty mental in the head to do that.

Dog Man Star · 06-11-2018 03:54PM

retro:electro wrote: »

I wouldn’t like that poster to be in the care of my child if they think that covering up the death of a child is rational and understandable.

Worrying.

Well if she died accidentally while you were both out having dinner, you might feel somewhat involved too.

Attacking my character doesn't get away from the facts unfortunately. It does get away from this thread topic though.

retro:electro · 06-11-2018 03:55PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Dog Man Star wrote: »

Well if she died accidentally while you were both out having dinner, you might feel somewhat involved too.

Attacking my character doesn't get away from the facts unfortunately. It does get away from this thread topic though.

I attacked your character when? You said it’s perfectly rational and understandable to cover up the death of a child. Those were your words.

Dog Man Star · 06-11-2018 03:56PM

splinter65 wrote: »

I have children. It bothers me that you think it’s rational and understandable that you would want to cover up the death of your child under any circumstances.
That’s insane. No sane person would think that.
In shock and horror and grief that you could calmly reason out that an elaborate cover up plan is the best course of action.
When your reading this does it not seem ludicrous to you? Are you really incapable of picturing the scenario and seeing that it’s just not possible?
And to keep it up for 12+ years?!? And how do you explain how such a hastily concocted and executed plan has failed to be unraveled by whole teams of detectives from at least two police courses from two countries?
If you could even give us some insight into what the plan was and how it was executed at the time, never mind explain who or how it was dreamed up... but you can’t because given the few facts that we have none of the nonsensical scenarios fit, do they?
But carry on...

I have answered pretty much all these question already in this thread.

Your faux outrage still doesn't whitewash the facts of this case.

Madeleine McCann

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