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Let the games commence

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭sogood


    Thanks for that fergal. I was aware of the tendency for the flappers to come adrift and cause cooling issues and the more I think of it, the more I'm inclined to investigate. I've waited this long, might as well have everything as right as is possible. But in the meantime, last day at the boat before I head off on tour again. It was a productive day, with several minor jobs finally out of the way and I got the dash covered too.

    I used a slightly matt finish linoleum material, so no glare and a slight grip also. I laid it in position and held it in place with some bits of masking tape, then pencilled the outline all around the edges. Removed the linoleum and laid down masking tape all around the outside edge of the pencil line. Now I could spread adhesive without being too fussy about getting it everywhere! Adhesive on the linoleum, let it get tacky and lay it down. After it had all set/dried somewhat, I peeled off the masking tape and finished up with a nice clean finish with no overspill or residue to clean up.

    I refitted the grab rail in front of the passenger seat, over a year since it was first removed. In fact, it was one of the first bits to be taken off in the strip down.

    I also got my VHF wired up and connected, along with my fishfinder/depthsounder and I connected up the extra 12v socket that I fitted on the dash. A good day. And just as I began to feel that I was getting close, the bellows beckons. Ah well, better safe than sorry............


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,323 Mod ✭✭✭✭fergal.b


    If it's an Alpha outdrive you might need a removal tool like this, you could probably pick one up on eBay handy enough, I would lend you mine but I have so many tools and books that have not come back to me it's just not worth the hassle anymore "sorry". The tool is worth having as I change bellows every two years.


    s-l225_zpskgj56jgg.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭sogood


    No worries feral. Been there myself too often and it's very annoying. I regard my tools as important as my arms! Anyway, will be poking around the bellows etc soon enough. And yes, it's an Alpha.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭sogood


    Still checking off the "small" jobs. Finished the impeller, gaskets, seals etc. Took a look see at the gimbal bellows and the shifter bellows and all is good. No cracks or splits and plenty of flex in them still. I still have to look at the exhaust bellows and flaps, as per fergals suggestion.

    Ran a test on all my electrics and all is good, everything is working as it should. I also got my trim sender gauge calibrated and working. I put an extra eye on the front as the existing one, which has the winch strap attached, is very low. Right down at the waterline in fact. I thought something higher up would make more sense for mooring, being accessible from the deck. I may just leave my mooring line attached to this eye in the future.

    I also decided to tidy up the boss on the steering wheel. It's aluminium, painted black and had become a bit bubbly and crusty. It took a bit of undoing to finally get it off, but it's now cleaned down, etch primed and awaiting it's new finish. Why not!!

    Did some caulking/filling here and there and maybe next time home, it will finally get a proper wash and polish, then the graphics go on. Does it ever end?

    I'm still seriously considering pulling the fuel tank to give it a proper clean. Even though I drained out all the old fuel, I'm still concerned about the "varnish" residue left behind. Watch this space...................


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭sogood


    So, in between the madness that work is at the moment, I'm still getting bits and pieces done. I pulled the exhaust manifold elbows off and was happy to find them very intact inside, with little or no corrosion. The water jackets are healthy with plenty of metal between them and the exhaust chambers. Not so with the exhaust flaps, or one of them at least.

    One was in great shape and the other had almost completely disintegrated. I'll be replacing both! I had a poke around to see if the part of the flap that's missing might have been somewhere inside the "Y" pipe or down in the exhaust bellows, but no sign of it. Time to pull the drive and see if it's in there somewhere.

    I lifted the section of floor above the fuel tank and found it sandwiched in between large "stringers" along each side, and bedded in expanding foam. Added to that is the fact that only the rear half of the tank is visible, with the rest running in further under the deck. It looks like the boat was built around the tank. I still want to clean it out and removing it would have made it easier and more thorough, but I don't think that's going to happen now. Any thoughts for a good way to clean it in situ? I'm most concerned about the residue of old petrol which leaves a sort of varnish film lining the tank. This can then soften with the introduction of new petrol, and the accompanying issues, which I want to avoid.

    So, still pottering along and hopefully getting somewhere.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭sogood


    So, the new exhaust flaps are fitted, but I couldn't refit the exhaust elbows as I got the wrong gaskets. In the meantime I fitted my manual bilge pump, with just the hose from the bilge left to clip in place. It was fun routing the hose down to the bilge, having to pass through a 12" wall of buoyancy foam on route! I got around this by cutting a section of 40mm waste water pipe and then cut "teeth" into one end, just by cutting out small pieces at an angle.

    This pipe then became my drill bit, which cut a perfect channel through the foam, and removed the waste material at the same time. It was like digging a mini "Port Tunnel" as the section of buoyancy was under the deck and totally inaccessible except from the bilge cavity. but it worked out fine.

    As I had the exhaust elbows off, I thought I'd remove the rocker covers and paint them properly. Previously, they couldn't be removed and were painted in place, with some surface rust left unattended, due to lack of access.

    So, off they came, cleaned down, sanded smooth, rust removed and treated, etch primed and sprayed. They're back on now and looking much better.

    My replacement gaskets came today, so tomorrow, the elbows go back on, along with the gearshift assembly that bolts onto them. Then I can tweak and adjust the shift mechanism.

    When I finally (soon) get to run the engine, I'll do so from a remote tank. I want to drop some new petrol into the tank, let it sit for a day or two and then pump it out, via a pair of filters and see if it shifts anything from inside the tank. I will also take a swab, via the sender access, to see if there's anything coming away from the tank walls. If all checks out, then I'll run the engine from the tank, with the option of plenty of frequent filter and water separator changes.

    Thanks to fergal pointing me towards sealsdirect, I hope to shortly retrim all the windows and fit the replacement glass to the deck window.

    I'd like to be further along as the summer seems to be drifting away, but hey, what can you do? I also put a new roof on my big shed this week, so at least I'll be watertight on one front for the winter!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    Glad you got your shed roofed. According to Radio Kerry a few days ago the weather in July was the wettest since records began, with rainfall on 26 days. I was here for much of it, and can add that there also was an unusually high number of smallcraft warnings. Several of those were incorrect with no wind but on a few occasions when I was out it blew stink, not forecasted. Maybe it's time to take up an indoor hobby, like knitting. Or boat renovation, and trail to somewhere drier.:(


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭sogood


    Knitting? Maybe a nice Aran sweater to go with the boat?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭sogood


    So, I got my exhaust elbows back on and attached the various gubbins to them, including the gear shift mounting bracket. This allowed me to adjust the gear shift and I have a nice solid, smooth, forward and reverse, with the engine off. I'm assured that it's better with the engine running. However, I found my throttle mechanism was doing nothing. I unhooked the cable and found that it operated perfectly. The actual throttle is stuck, solid!

    There is no movement at all on the shaft that operated the (primary)throttle plates. The secondary plates operate fine. So, off with the carb.

    I removed the various rods, levers etc. to get down to the basics. Still no budge. I separated the carb to see if I could find anything from the top side, but nothing obvious. It seems that the shaft that the flaps are screwed to is stuck tight and refuses to rotate. I even put a small adjustable spanner on the flat section of the shaft after removing the above "rods and levers" and no joy. For the moment it's soaking in WD40. If anyone has any bright suggestions, I'm all ears. FWIW this is a remanufactured carb and the original carb came with the boat. It's a Rochester Quadrajet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭sogood


    Too many distractions to get much done, but I did manage to free the stuck throttle! Woo hoo! I dismantled the carb further to get at the flaps, which I removed. Then after more spraying and soaking, I put a large block of wood in my bench vice, with a long hole drilled down into it.
    The I sat the section of carb on the block, with the protruding section of throttle shaft, sitting down into the hole.

    This helped to keep the carb steady and cushioned it, and with the other end of the shaft (sitting upright) duly protected, I began tapping, solidly, little by little, and the shaft finally began to move. Still not turning, but moving. Using a drive, I eventually managed to push the shaft free. Thought it might have been bent or distorted in some way, causing it to stick, but its dead straight all round, according to my steel rule.

    So, using cotton buds, I cleaned out the bores that the shaft passes through, inspected the brass bushes for any damage, all good, and cleaned up the shaft itself, although there was nothing obviously amiss.

    End result, the shaft is back in and turns freely, with no flat spots or hesitation.
    Now I can go to work happy and will rebuild the carb next week when my kit arrives. That's good enough for me! Thanks for the input.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭sogood


    Got back from work yesterday and my parcel arrived at the same time. So today I thoroughly cleaned and rebuilt the carb with new gaskets, seals etc. Its all working freely and is back on the engine. Hoping to fire her up soon and be able to fine tune it then. Looking forward to hear her running again, especially with all her new bits!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭sogood


    So, yesterday was a bit hit and miss at the boat, with the weather being very unsettled, so not a lot done. Today however, I tweaked and lubed the gear shift/throttle controller and happy with it's operation.

    I also replaced the old fuel fill hose, which was a bit crusty and brittle looking, with lots of small surface cracks. Getting the new one in was a bit of a pain, as the hose is quite rigid with a steel wire reinforcing, so not very pliable. I fixed a line to the old one when I pulled it out and this helped a lot in pulling the new one back in, although the tight spaces and corners didn't help.

    I also tidied up the bilge hose on the new manual bilge pump. I clipped it in place and sealed up the base where it runs through the deck. There's a ton of foam beneath the deck where the hose passes through, so I didn't want it constantly soaking up water. I used a plastic cap from a spray can, with a hole in it that the hose passes through, very snugly. Then I set the cap down into the hole in the deck and sealed up all around it.

    Next on the to do list is to spray some fogging oil into the cylinders and turn the engine. Then fit the plugs, hook up the muffs and fire her up (hopefully) using a remote fuel tank. All fluids are done and I keep mentally re-checking that all is good to go. Getting paranoid!

    Still doing my homework on the replacement window seals, but I think I have it sorted, so that will be the last significant job. Fingers crossed!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭sogood


    Bad weather hampered work yesterday, but today I sprayed / lubed the cylinders, got the plugs fitted (what a PITA), leads hooked up etc. Remote fuel tank and primer bulb also connected. Good to go, but no go!

    The engine seems to be turning too slowly to fire, so the battery is on charge. Having said that, there was no big difference when I tried the battery from my car. Normally spins my 4.0 litre with no bother at all.

    I'm getting fuel to the carb and into the cylinders, so tomorrow I'll also check for a good spark and will look at the shift interrupt switch also. Fingers crossed! And yes, I did have muffs connected with a good flow of water to the drive FWIW.

    Thoughts welcome.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,323 Mod ✭✭✭✭fergal.b


    If you put oil in the cylinders it will seal them up a bit more making the compression higher and in turn harder to turn over, also check you have the right leads going to the right plugs just to be sure to be sure :)







    .


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭sogood


    Thanks for that. I used a little fogging oil and turned the engine a few times with the plugs out and it didn't turn a whole lot faster than with them in. Usually without the plugs an engine will spin fast and free, so I'm suspecting the battery, connections or the starter.

    I triple checked the leads and fitted the new ones after marking, photographing and sketching the original set up, so I'm happy that they're right.

    I'll be looking into it today, fingers crossed!

    Thanks again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭sogood


    Didn't get back to the boat until this afternoon, about 3 hours and in that time, I managed to get ONE of the bolts out of the starter motor! It was obviously fitted before the engine was fitted into the boat. What a major pain.

    One of the bolts is quite awkward to get at, but it was possible, by lying on my side on the deck, hanging upside down into the bilge up at the front of the engine and stretching down towards the back of the engine, under the sump, between the stringers, past the various hoses, bilge pump etc. etc.

    The two bolts are alongside each other, on the underside of the motor, but the second, really difficult one, is seated snug up against a plate on the bell housing, with not enough room to get a socket or ring spanner onto it. An open ended spanner is possible, but with practically no movement possible, with the starter motor itself in the way on one side and a stringer on the other.

    Last thing I did this evening was to squirt a load of WD40 down into the top of the open upper end of the bolt hole and ground down a socket, ( courtesy of a youtube video) leaving enough metal on the walls, but thin enough to be able to tap it onto the nut. So, in the morning I'll have a go at it again.

    Pulling the motor is the last step in sourcing the slow turning. I started with the battery, fully charged now, cleaned the posts and clamps, all shiny now. Then I took the cables off the battery switch and cleaned them likewise. One of the lugs on the cable broke off in the process and I hoped this was my problem, but a new lug didn't help. I even bypassed the battery switch, just to be sure that it wasn't acting up internally, so that left me with the motor itself.

    On a car, removing the starter might take 5 minutes, with proper access from below, but unfortunately, in a boat the hull is in the way!

    When it comes to reinstalling the motor ( note my optimism!) I'm going to try and replace the awkward bolt with a hex head bolt, something easier to get a turn on in such limited space.

    Anyway, that's it for now, fingers crossed for tomorrow.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭sogood


    So, still no start. To date, I've changed plugs, leads, cleaned distributor, (rotor was new and clean) Cleaned and rebuilt carb, replaced fuel pump, cleaned all fuel lines etc. got my TDC on #1 cylinder and the rotor was aligned with the #1 position (marked) on the distributor cap. Fitted leads in correct firing order. Used a remote tank and primer with fresh fuel. Fuel is pumping into carb when throttle is activated. Have 12 volts at + side of coil.

    Took starter off and bench tested same, spinning freely and fast. It was a replacement by PO and it was spotless inside. Cleaned all connections, likewise with battery and grounds. I tried to start it with shift interrupt switch connected, disconnected, shorted out, and with the coil - (tacho) connected and disconnected. I even went so far as to shift all plug leads on the distributor forward and back one position, just in case my TDC was somehow off!

    ​The only thing I'm finding is that the engine seems to be turning over a bit slowly. It was rebuilt by the PO so could it be a bit "tight"? I'm using a 110ah battery and have cleaned and tightened the connections in the battery selector switch. I even tried it with the battery in both 1 and 2 positions. I bring the battery back up to charge in between attempts to start and when ignition is switched on, the gauge shows 12-13 volts, as does my multi meter. Under load, with engine cranking, the voltage on the gauge drops right back to nothing.

    ​I did have a short ( arcing ) on the tower on the coil to the - tacho terminal, but with this disconnected it made no difference to starting. The arcing has since disappeared, possibly caused by incorrect fitting of plug leads?

    ​Anyway, I'm running out of ideas. I'm hoping to use a booster pack to assist in the cranking, and hopefully starting, but if anyone can think of anything I might have missed, I'm all ears! FWIW, this engine ran, very easily and very well, despite all the old corroded terminals/connections/ gummed up fuel pump and lines etc. prior to purchase and during the refurb and my various attempts, the distributor was never moved from it's original position.

    Thoughts and suggestions most welcome, with thanks


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,323 Mod ✭✭✭✭fergal.b


    Sounds like a spark problem, try a set of these to see if. you are getting a good bright spark on each cylinder also try starting it at night and look at the coil, leads and distributor to see if there is a spark jumping from a crack, another way to do it is put your hand on them while turning it over but that could give you a bit of a jolt :D. Are you even getting a backfire.



    ae235_zpsfey8xe8b.jpeg


  • Registered Users Posts: 410 ✭✭megafan


    Sogood.... What battery are you using? (sorry butting in on conversation without reading previous reply's) Remember having large two-stroke outboard (2.5lt) on boat years ago & was always difficult & slow to start had always used what were called marine battery's but was told to use a good large car battery & what a difference never had trouble with starting problems after... Marine battery's really only "Leisure" battery's & ideal for running cabin lights & fridges etc when moored & maybe starting small yacht engine but don't have the quick ah to start large engine... Just a thought...


  • Registered Users Posts: 410 ✭✭megafan


    Ha... See you've used your car battery but when you get to use starter pack also should tell a tale?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭sogood


    Thanks for the input. The battery is a 110 ah automotive battery. Mercruiser recommend 90ah or more and it's a regular " starting battery" as opposed to a leisure battery. Going to run some tests tomorrow, looking for voltage drops etc. Thanks again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,606 ✭✭✭Tow


    Fitted leads in correct firing order.

    Trippe check the leads are in the correct order, against the engine's documentation not what you think is correct...

    When is the money (including lost growth) Michael Noonan took in the Pension Levy going to be paid back?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭sogood


    I followed the manuals set up procedure. #1 piston at TDC. Cylinder numbers are stamped into the block for identification. Rotor inside distributor is then automatically pointing at #1 plug lead on distributor. This is the position for the lead to #1 cylinder. Then the rest of the leads are installed, clockwise, following firing order. 1 8 4 3 6 5 7 2. These positions also correspond to the numbering marked on the distributor cap. So it's a 3 way check and everything corresponds and checks out.
    My gut tells me that the slow crank is what's stopping it from firing. Weather kept me away from it today but I'll be double checking grounds etc. tomorrow if possible. The starter spun fine on the bench, but slowly on the boat. No improvement with the plugs out. Thanks for the input.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭sogood


    Just an update. Rechecking connections today on my starter, I discovered that the terminal on the starter that takes the free from the ignition, goes to ground. Not the wire but the actual terminal on the starter solenoid. Surely that can't be right? Looks like I may be pulling the starter again! Any thoughts welcome.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭sogood


    I managed to avoid having to pull the starter again! I thought on the off chance that my new, replacement coil was dodgy, I replaced the old original coil, having cleaned it up as much as possible, but it was in a very unhealthy, corroded state, especially the contact inside the tower. Anyway, nothing to lose. And she fired! Actually started! Ran! But briefly, as I had the throttle full forward and she revved up, I pulled the throttle back immediately and she died, so some adjustment/fine tuning is needed.

    It seems you have to find the best technique/procedure for starting these engines, with pumping the throttle, if so, how much and then what position to set the throttle at during cranking, but we're getting there. A new coil was ordered yesterday evening and it arrived today. Bad weather and a weak battery prevented any work, but tomorrow will hopefully see some progress.

    Thanks for the inputs and suggestions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭sogood


    Long story short. New coil and some tweaking on the carb and she starts and runs on the first turn of the key. Idling a bit fast, around 900 RPM's as opposed to the suggested 750, but I have no adjustment available on the throttle idle screw, as it's not even touching the stop plate. The idle mixture screws have absolutely no effect either.

    If I throttle up, the engine dies at about 1500 RPM's so either it's flooding or the timing is out, or possibly both. I'll be looking into it, but any thoughts or input, as usual, is most welcome.

    Thanks in advance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭sogood


    Getting very familiar with the Rochester Quadrajet Carb, but that's no harm. I pulled the air horn off again, reset the float (again) and discovered that one fuel passageways on the primary jets/seats was very clogged and the other wasn't far behind. It's basically a tiny passageway that allows the fuel from the bowl to be drawn into the cylinders, past the throttle plates. Hope I'm making sense.

    Anyway, after some serious carb cleaner soaking and some compressed air all is good and I can now throttle up without any bogging. I have to assume it's ok as I can't/shouldn't rev up beyond 1500 rpm when running on muffs. But we're getting there. It starts right on the button and runs pretty well, just some tweaking on the timing to do and we'll see how things are.

    I have to adjust the mixture idle also, but apparently, this has to be done on the water, with the drive in gear and the boat tied up. Under load if you like.

    So, whenever the sea trials take place, there will still be some fine tuning to do. But we're getting there.

    Alongside that I've been working on my Bimini top. It's working out well and should fit the bill when finished. Essentially, it will be a permanently fitted top that folds up or down as needed, with side panels and "windows", just to aid visibility. Pics to follow.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭sogood


    So, time moves on and I'm still not in the water. That's no harm. I was hoping to get her wet through the summer, but time, work and numerous other distractions have conspired against me. It just means that I can relax a little and make sure that everything is done as well as possible, including some extras that were being put on the long finger.

    Still pottering away on my "Bimini Top". I used some of the old cover that came with the boat. It was torn in places, badly stained and was never going to be used anyway, so a good supply of water resistant fabric was at my disposal. I already have the cover made up and fitted that covers the seating/ dash/instruments etc. Plus the deck is self draining. So...........

    I modified the frame that came with the Microplus that I refurbed, as it was never used on that boat. I used it once on the water with the cover fitted and it was like unfurling a mainsail. Plus it made the small deck space very cramped and claustrophobic. Ok maybe on inland waterways, but not out on the bay.

    So, I stretched and reshaped the frame to make it fit the wider beam of the Wellcraft and then set about measuring, cutting, sewing, tucking and trimming and so far, I'm happy with how it's working out. I need to get some more snap fasteners before I can finish it off fully, but so far so good.

    The nice thing about it is the fact that it folds down in front of the windscreen, out of the way and can be popped up and fixed in place in less than a minute, so any sudden showers wont spoil an outing. In fact I had a few showers while I was working on it and it performed very well. It doesn't take up any space, is light and airy and I've included windows on either side, just to eliminate any blind spots.

    On the mechanical front, I've set the base timing on the engine and she's starting and ticking over really well. I want to replace the choke unit as the current one is a bit sticky and notchy and the oil pressure sender will be replaced also. I have the option to install a high temp/oil pressure alarm which I'm looking into.

    I take heart from the fact that last December and January when I was working outdoors on the boat, I enjoyed some wonderful calm clear and exceptionally mild days, so I look forward to getting her in the water, whenever.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭sogood


    I'm sure there are better ways to pass the time, but if watching an engine running is what you're into, then be my guest! As mentioned, some fine tuning still to do. The idle mixture has to be set, under load, on the water, but otherwise, it's a lot better than the mooring weight it might have become!http://youtu.be/OKziDaAs6qE


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭sogood


    Still pottering along, although much of what I'm doing doesn't actually have a lot to show for it. You know, all those little fiddly jobs, tweaking, adjusting, fixing etc.

    At the moment I'm awaiting a replacement steering actuator, courtesy of ebay. I had a power steering fluid leak, which wasn't easily accessible with the actuator in situ. It was easy enough to remove it and much easier to work on it on the bench. A closer look revealed a bit of a bodge job by a PO which didn't work very well. So, a rebuild kit/ seals gaskets etc. was called for.

    Lots of variations and exorbitant costs was putting me off, so a direct replacement seemed to be the way to go. It won't arrive for a while but will only take 30 minutes to fit.

    In the meanwhile, I tidied up the engine bay area by refurbing the hardwood trim and refitting it. It's bedded down and sealed in place, just to discourage any water from getting into the bilge. The deck is self draining and I'd like to let it do its' job as intended. I also "christened" the boat with the addition of the graphics for her name. "Marianne" lives again.

    I repaired the swim platform which had a chunk missing from it at one of the corners. Not crucial, more a question of aesthetics, and I'm happier with how it looks now. I riveted a piece of plastic onto the inside of the lip, with a piece of wire mesh, courtesy of an old fire screen (throw nothing away is my mantra) sandwiched between the plastic and the lip. Then the filling started, building it up in layers, followed by the usual rubbing and shaping and it's looking much more respectable.

    My bimini top is almost finished too, just waiting on some stud fasteners and I can finish it off.

    Still waiting on my window trim too, as it's taking a while to sort it out, with much emailing and some phone calls. Hopefully it will work out in the end.

    Damp drizzly day today, so I'm on the computer instead of the boat.


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