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Cocaine

  • 17-01-2020 3:16am
    #1
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,597 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    In the context of ever increasing consumption of cocaine in Ireland, I thought the following from the gardai investigating Keane Mulready-Woods gruesome murder was interesting. Indeed, given the typical demographic of this site, there are large numbers of cocaine users on this site. So, do you think cocaine users in Ireland have some responsibility for the gang warfare that is destroying parts of the country?
    RTE News wrote:
    Chief Supt Mangan said that anyone taking cocaine contributes to Keane's death, the drug economy and the criminal networks.

    "Just look at the fallout from you buying drugs, it's damaging our children and society," he said.

    Do cocaine users in Ireland have blood on their hands? 989 votes

    Yes
    65% 645 votes
    No
    34% 344 votes


«134567…17

Comments

  • #2
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Prohibition does not work, never has never will.


  • #3
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    Legalize it and remove the criminality from the trade for the most part


  • #4
    Gobb
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭Gobb


    Without the demand, there is no need to supply. So yes, users are a contributing factor.

    However, dealers/gangs/etc know what they are getting into as with any "profession" one might decide to employ themselves in.


  • #5
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,597 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    Legalize it and remove the criminality from the trade for the most part
    This isn't a question about legalisation. The question is that given coke is currently illegal, do current users have blood on their hands?


  • #6
    Mr.burgess
    Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭Mr.burgess


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    Legalize it and remove the criminality from the trade for the most part

    what about crack cocaine ?


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  • #7
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    This isn't a question about legalisation. The question is that given coke is currently illegal, do current users have blood on their hands?

    The government for their failed policy of prohibition have blood on their hands


  • #8
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,638 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Yes, I think they do.


  • #9
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Mr.burgess wrote: »
    what about crack cocaine ?

    Why do you care if it's freebase or not?


  • #10
    Gobb
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭Gobb


    tuxy wrote: »
    Why do you care if it's freebase or not?

    Physiologically more addicting and effects lower income demographics?


  • #11
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,311 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




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  • #12
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    yes


  • #13
    Your Face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,275 ✭✭✭Your Face


    Very hard to do coke with bloody hands - too sticky.


  • #14
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,819 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    I had a similar thread a few months back. People didn't feel that guilty!

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=111355432


  • #15
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    This isn't a question about legalisation. The question is that given coke is currently illegal, do current users have blood on their hands?

    Which is in itself a leading question, and one following a particular agenda. Guilt.

    Collective guilt.

    I'm not a cocaine user. Never have been and never will. And I find the notion of collective guilt to be disgusting. So, no, They're not responsible... no more than you're responsible for the priests molesting boys if you're a Christian. :rolleyes:


  • #16
    Foweva Awone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭Foweva Awone


    I'd be very much in favour of legalising all drugs, and I'm a recovering addict so I'm all too aware of the damage drugs can do to a person!

    My drug of choice was alcohol and there's plenty of help available for those who want to stop drinking. Many of my friends in recovery were addicted to heroin or cocaine or other drugs, there are a lot more barriers to getting help when it's an illegal substance.

    Legalisation would remove much of the stigma, it would make recovery supports more accessible to those who want recovery, and it would reduce the criminality associated with the supply of drugs.

    Those who want to use are going to do it anyways, same as those who wanted abortions were always going to go to England to get them. Same with the abortion referendum, it makes sense to acknowledge what's happening, bring it out into the open, and have the supports available for those in need.


  • #17
    fatknacker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭fatknacker


    The psychopaths who groom and recruit young boys from disadvantaged areas have blood on their hands. Literally. People who consume drugs illegally have no other ways to get them.
    And if it weren’t drugs they’d be selling something else that the public want but cant access.


  • #18
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    The government for their failed policy of prohibition have blood on their hands

    Agreed.

    Prohibition will always fail.

    The government are largely responsible because despite this glaringly obvious fact they continue with a failed policy.

    We need a government with a little foresight and courage to tackle this one.

    We'll be waiting.


  • #19
    Salary Negotiator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Salary Negotiator


    These criminals will always find something to sell to people, be that drugs, gambling, money lending etc. The fact that they are currently fighting over drug territories is irrelevant, because if it wasn't drugs it'd be something else.


  • #20
    JMMCapital
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 373 ✭✭JMMCapital


    Yes.


  • #21
    circadian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭circadian


    The War on Drugs and prohibition are failed policies and a complete disaster. The Government should have realised this in the 80's when there was a heroin epidemic. Then we had the market flooded with synthetic analogues which were arguablely much more dangerous.

    I'm all for legalisation of marijuana and decriminalisation of all other drugs. I do believe, however, anyone caught with large supplies with intent to sell or bypassing any marijuana licencing laws should be handed a heavy sentence.

    The school curriculum should be honest and Frank about drugs. Not this drugs are bad approach. More along the lines of how the drugs actually effect you, responsible usage if you do decide to do drugs and the risks involved.

    Nightclubs/festivals should be allowed to have drug testing on site.

    While I think users contribute to the criminal factor ultimately it falls on successive governments failure to tackle the issue in a mature and responsible way. There will always be a demand, let's at least make it safer for the average joe. After all, addiction is an illness and that also needs to be dealt with in a much better manner than it currently is.


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  • #22
    joebloggs32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭joebloggs32


    Eamon Dunphy says you cant get good coke in this town anyway


  • #23
    Collie D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,400 ✭✭✭✭Collie D


    I’m not going to give an opinion on ending prohibition as I think the issue is quite nuanced with pros and cons but I do see one issue which always seems to get overlooked in this debate.

    If the newly elected Dail decided to legalise cocaine for example.

    Where does it come from? We’d be the only country where it’s legal although I’m open to correction. Our supply chain would still need to involve shady characters in Colombia or Mexico or wherever so it wouldn’t instantly remove the criminal element.


  • #24
    circadian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭circadian


    There's a difference between legalisation and decriminalisation. I believe when people aya it would be legalised they really mean it should be decriminalised like Portugal or the Czech Republic.


  • #25
    Diceicle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Diceicle


    What is with the focus on coke?
    Gangland deals in everything from weed to fake clothing and fake smokes.

    Is it because these other items are not as sexy as coke that there is next to no talk about them?


  • #26
    Bob Harris
    Registered Users Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭Bob Harris


    Diceicle wrote: »
    What is with the focus on coke?
    Gangland deals in everything from weed to fake clothing and fake smokes.

    Is it because these other items are not as sexy as coke that there is next to no talk about them?

    I'd imagine it's the addiction/dependent element of drugs. People tend to be less dependent on knock-off Gucci handbags.


  • #27
    Deebles McBeebles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,865 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    If you want to hang out, you've gotta take her out...

    If you want to get down, get down on the ground...

    She don't lie, she don't lie, she don't lie...


  • #28
    blackbox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭blackbox


    I'm in favour of legalisation of all drugs for adults as it is patently obvious that prohibition doesn't work.

    However I recognize that it is a complex issue because of potential cross border smuggling.

    Legalisation only has a chance of working if it is approached at EU level.

    Not a user...


  • #29
    B.A._Baracus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,206 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    People don't care. They only care about getting their high.
    A minbus full of school kids could get all killed tomorrow because of gangland feuds/related to drugs and no one would stop taking cocaine.

    But if the price went up by 1000% people would. That's life.


  • #30
    Mooooo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    That garda is dead right. Cocaine is everywhere and use is rampant. These gangs supply it and get it from areas of the world with massive problems so those using are directly contributing to the problem. Tbh blaming the government or anything else is only deflecting.


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  • #31
    Paulzx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,978 ✭✭✭Paulzx


    The base problem with drugs is addiction. All the other issues and societal woes associated with drugs stem from this addiction.

    Legalising it doesn't remove the addiction. There is no solution to the drugs problem once people continue to become addicted irrespective of whether we legalise it or not. I am on the fence on whether legalising is a good or bad thing.

    Even with legalisation i still believe there will be criminality associated with drugs. n addict will still need their fix. Who's going to pay for it? As their habit increases they are still going to have to fund their drugs even if they are legal. Robbery and petty criminality will still be the source of funds for the addict who needs more drugs than the state will supply them with.

    Personally, I can't see what the solution is or if there even is a solution.


  • #32
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,639 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    Good luck finding any consumer items with a completely moral supply line.


  • #33
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,597 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    andekwarhola wrote: »
    Good luck finding any consumer items with a completely moral supply line.

    Are there any as amoral as cocaine? People really seen to put it out of their minds where this stuff comes from. I was out last week and one of my friends partners is an absolute coke fiend. Didn't stop her shiting on about her ethically sourced diamonds... The hypocrite.


  • #34
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mooooo wrote: »
    That garda is dead right. Cocaine is everywhere and use is rampant. These gangs supply it and get it from areas of the world with massive problems so those using are directly contributing to the problem. Tbh blaming the government or anything else is only deflecting.

    As opposed to deflecting the actions of the gangs/suppliers on to the users of the drugs?
    MrMusician18 wrote:
    Are there any as amoral as cocaine? People really seen to put it out of their minds where this stuff comes from. I was out last week and one of my friends partners is an absolute coke fiend. Didn't stop her ****ing on about her ethically sourced diamonds... The hypocrite.

    I honestly don't care where a product I buy comes from, and I seriously doubt that you do either, in spite of the moralising.


  • #35
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,517 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I honestly don't care where a product I buy comes from, and I seriously doubt that you do either, in spite of the moralising.

    Snorts coke at weekends but makes sure their coffee is Fair Trade...


  • #36
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    28 people so far are cocaine users.

    Obviously they do - they are the market.


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  • #37
    Badly Drunk Boy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,701 ✭✭✭Badly Drunk Boy


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    28 people so far are cocaine users.

    I'd say there are more than that here. They just acknowledge that they've blood on their hands.


  • #38
    Shanotheslayer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,191 ✭✭✭✭Shanotheslayer


    Do people who buy clothes which are made in chinese sweatshops have blood on their hands?


  • #39
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Shanotheslayer wrote: »
    Do people who buy clothes which are made in chinese sweatshops have blood on their hands?

    This is a classic bull**** false equivalence. No one is defending Chinese (or wherever) sweatshops, are you defending coked up psychopaths and their malicious effects on Ireland?


  • #40
    Mekhi Full Sweeper
    Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Mekhi Full Sweeper


    blackbox wrote: »
    I'm in favour of legalisation of all drugs for adults as it is patently obvious that prohibition doesn't work.

    However I recognize that it is a complex issue because of potential cross border smuggling.

    Legalisation only has a chance of working if it is approached at EU level.

    Not a user...

    I agree.

    However, I think it's going to take one or two individual countries to get the ball rolling and start the wider EU conversation.


  • #41
    Shanotheslayer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,191 ✭✭✭✭Shanotheslayer


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    This is a classic bull**** false equivalence. No one is defending Chinese (or wherever) sweatshops, are you defending coked up psychopaths and their malicious effects on Ireland?

    Nope, I treat them exactly the same. My point is people are gonna buy it regardless of where it originates.


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  • #42
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,597 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Deleted User wrote: »
    As opposed to deflecting the actions of the gangs/suppliers on to the users of the drugs?



    I honestly don't care where a product I buy comes from, and I seriously doubt that you do either, in spite of the moralising    .
    Of course I care. There are no boys being cut up and dumped across Dublin to facilitate the delivery of any goods to me.


  • #43
    1o059k7ewrqj3n
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭1o059k7ewrqj3n


    I can understand people talking about legalising or decriminalising weed, but cocaine?

    I don’t get it. Coke is a horrid drug, mixed with any number of toxic **** by equally toxic people. You really want to spend 100s of euros to feel good about yourself and talk complete ****e in a bathroom, for an hour or two at most?

    I’d legalise acid, ecstasy and magic mushrooms before coke. There’s an experience to be gained with those, coke just lubes up your ego.


  • #44
    Shanotheslayer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,191 ✭✭✭✭Shanotheslayer


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    Of course I care. There are no boys being cut up and dumped across Dublin to facilitate the delivery of any goods to me.

    So isn't the question basically where does your moral compass lye on the matter?

    No matter the product to me as Klaz said, I don't care where it originates. Wheater it's playing games that Blizzard make or if it's clothes that chinese sweatshops had there hand in.


  • #45
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Steyr 556 wrote: »
    I can understand people talking about legalising or decriminalising weed, but cocaine?

    I don’t get it. Coke is a horrid drug, mixed with any number of toxic **** by equally toxic people. You really want to spend 100s of euros to feel good about yourself and talk complete ****e in a bathroom, for an hour or two at most?

    I’d legalise acid, ecstasy and magic mushrooms before coke. There’s an experience to be gained with those, coke just lubes up your ego.

    Yeah I'm off everything a good while but I always loathed coke. You could always spot the cokeheads when everyone else was on yokes, keeping to themselves, skulking off for a sniff while everyone else was passing and sharing smokes and everything else.
    It's a horrible, selfish, mean drug and the idea of it being "OK" doesn't sit well with me.


  • #46
    cj maxx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,554 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    Buttonftw is completely correct about coke. It's a mean selfish drug


  • #47
    nullzero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,427 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    I wonder if Ian O'Doherty still believes taking cocaine is a victimless crime?

    Glazers Out!



  • #48
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Snorts coke at weekends but makes sure their coffee is Fair Trade...

    Fair comment. Cokeheads have no more reason to feel guilty than people who use Nestle preoducts, or drink coca cola, or have an iPhone, or use producys with Palm oil in it and are complicit in the collateral damage caused along their supply chain.


  • #49
    cian68
    Registered Users Posts: 894 ✭✭✭cian68


    Steyr 556 wrote: »

    I don’t get it. Coke is a horrid drug, mixed with any number of toxic **** by equally toxic people.

    Would that be the case if it were legal?


  • #50
    Winning_Stroke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 224 ✭✭Winning_Stroke


    Of course users are complicit in the deaths and horrors that the drug world has. No market == no supply. Sure you can whine about "prohibition never works, legalise and tax it" (does that extent to heroin? guns? CP?) but at the end of the day, the most power most of us have is with our wallet. Snort all you like, just don't try and act like you've no part in the cycle.


  • #51
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,517 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Winning_Stroke wrote: »
    Snort all you like, just don't try and act like you've no part in the cycle.

    If there was only the same social disapproval for coke as there is with drink driving.


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