Travellers to be recognised as an ethnicicity tomorrow

Jurgen Klopp · 28-02-2017 9:17pm

To be honest it won't help em. They've claimed for years its cause we're travellers you are at us anytime they are moved on, arrested, etc

End of the day it won't stop farmers firing shotguns after them when they are caught creeping around our farm yards in the middle of the night so fcuk em

Richard Hillman · 28-02-2017 9:18pm

JayZeus wrote: »

Wrong.

Ethnicity and Race are not the same thing.

Travellers are most certainly an ethnic group.

You might not like it, but that's the truth.

This was debunked. They are Irish but kept their genepool within a certain group of families. This is their only difference. They are of no relation to Roma Gypsies or any other non-Irish grouping.

http://www.thejournal.ie/traveller-community-study-rcsi-3231070-Feb2017/

DontThankMe · 28-02-2017 9:18pm

So the government has the time to do this but they don't have the time to create legislation so a seriously ill child can access medicinal cannabis that will vastly improve her quality of life.What a time to be alive!

Delacent · 28-02-2017 9:19pm

me_irl wrote: »

I don't mean to be persnickety (nor do I disagree), but can you cite the sources on these figures?

Sorry, my figures are wrong.

Its 15% of male prison population and 22% of female prison population.

Google "travellers in prison" and you'll get the figures.

http://www.ssgt.ie/travellers_in_prison.html

Donal55 · 28-02-2017 9:19pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The idea has already been muted by a minister at the time.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0616/132277-travellers/

They will do it in state bodies first and then it will move to private sector. It is a banker that it will happen eventually. It is already happening in Britain.

Not being very au fait with this subject but I'd say they'd have to meet at least the minimum educational requirements plus all the other qualifying criteria we see on Publicjobs.ie

Im sure if they have all the above plus pass the interview then they are entitled to the job.
Would you agree?

Rashersocks · 28-02-2017 9:19pm

Brian,

Are you simply naive or an apologist for travellers?

I'm as liberal as anyone could be but any interactions I have had with travellers has been negative. Anecdotal, perhaps, but I have yet to encounter anyone from Ireland with an opinion to the contrary.

Take a drive to to any halting site or purpose built accommodation for them and tell me it's money well spent. I will bet my house it looks look Aleppo. How much must be done for these people? Do they not have a responsibility to take up their end of the social contract?

Bigotry is usually baseless. Any flak travellers get is well earned by a rich history of law breaking and general mankiness.

Omackeral · 28-02-2017 9:20pm

Delacent wrote: »

Before the good-doers get on board, here's a verifiable fact from cso and prison service.

Travellers represent LESS THAN 0.5% of the population.

They represent 14% of the adult male prison population.

They represent 21% of the adult female prison population.

You'll be replied to with black people in the US on this.

EDIT: You already were

abdulabduler · 28-02-2017 9:21pm

Rashersocks wrote: »

Brian,

Are you simply naive or an apologist for travellers?

I'm as liberal as anyone could be but any interactions I have had with travellers has been negative. Anecdotal, perhaps, but I have yet to encounter anyone from Ireland with an opinion to the contrary.

Take a drive to to any halting site or purpose built accommodation for them and tell me it's money well spent. I will bet my house it looks look Aleppo. How much must be done for these people? Do they not have a responsibility to take up their end of the social contract?

Bigotry is usually baseless. Any flak travellers get is well earned by a rich history of law breaking and general mankiness.

Il fight you now boy, like i did yar father and his father before him.

Rashersocks · 28-02-2017 9:22pm

I want to see my call out tape first. You junkies, junkies bastard!

FTA69 · 28-02-2017 9:22pm

Rashersocks wrote: »

Brian,

Are you simply naive or an apologist for travellers?

I'm as liberal as anyone could be but any interactions I have had with travellers has been negative. Anecdotal, perhaps, but I have yet to encounter anyone from Ireland with an opinion to the contrary.

Take a drive to to any halting site or purpose built accommodation for them and tell me it's money well spent. I will bet my house it looks look Aleppo. How much must be done for these people? Do they not have a responsibility to take up their end of the social contract?

Bigotry is usually baseless. Any flak travellers get is well earned by a rich history of law breaking and general mankiness.

I'm from Ireland and have had plenty of experiences with Travellers that aren't bad. Likewise I've been to and seen Traveller sites that are immaculate.

Dr Crayfish · 28-02-2017 9:23pm

Deleted User wrote: »

How exactly?

Will they be immune from prosecution?

What's the connection between your perception of them as "dangerous people" and recognition as an ethnic group?

Have you any experience in the real world? Ever come across these people in a pub with a few jars on them? I have never ever seen a group of these people behave themselves in a bar. Seriously man...

Spanish Eyes · 28-02-2017 9:24pm

The Ash Wednesday ethnicity law.

This has nothing to do with ethnicity, follow the money.

28-02-2017 9:24pm

Rashersocks wrote: »

I'm as liberal as anyone could be but any interactions I have had with travellers has been negative. Anecdotal, perhaps, but I have yet to encounter anyone from Ireland with an opinion to the contrary...

That's possibly because in Ireland you can express blatant bigotry and hatred about them and you get cheered to the rafters. A post with this has has dozens of thanks...

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

...smelly inbred scum that they are.

28-02-2017 9:24pm

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Have you any experience in the real world? Ever come across these people in a pub with a few jars on them? I have never ever seen a group of these people behave themselves in a bar. Seriously man...

Oh yaaaaaaaaaawn, not the "dealings with them" post.

I've had 53 dealings with them. I count them. How about you?

red ears · 28-02-2017 9:25pm

The legal profession will be cracking open the champagne tomorrow, discrimination cases will skyrocket.

Pat Mustard · 28-02-2017 9:25pm

I'm going to copy and paste my previous post on this topic:
http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057663619/2/#post101469746

Pat Mustard wrote:

Recognition of Traveller ethnicity is not something to be looked at in isolation. It needs to be looked at in the sense of what additional rights are being sought now or which may be sought in future.

I'm in favour of education, training and assistance with accommodation for travellers. However, I don't think that they should be treated differently to other disadvantaged members of society, who also need education, training and assistance with accommodation.

I think that it is a mistake to celebrate a culture involving a nomadic lifestyle at the expense of the taxpayer, which lifestyle is incompatible with proper education for children, housing, employment or in fitting in with Irish society in general.

If Travellers were to be assimilated into the rest of society; if they had employment and education/training and housing, what aspect of Traveller culture would be lost, which could no longer be enjoyed by society?

Travellers should get the appropriate help if they need it insofar as it is already given to disadvantaged people but I disagree with celebrating or incentivising the Traveller lifestyle and all that goes with it.

We shouldn't have to change to fit in with them. They should change to fit in with us.

Delacent · 28-02-2017 9:25pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It is true that they face certain issues, like black people in the States they have higher crime rates and form a greater portion of the prison population. But in the States they don't conclude that "thus, black people are bad". Poverty, discrimination and deprivation may be factors.

Black people are less than 3 times more likely to be in prison compared to rest of population.

Travellers in Ireland are over 30 times more likely to be in prison compared to the rest of the population.

Sorry, but verifiable facts tell you that they are a criminally minded group of people.

Commotion Ocean · 28-02-2017 9:26pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Untouchable now

FG are really finished in rural Ireland after this

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Does that mean crime is being legalised ??

Genuine question, so go easy on me.

How does recognising travellers as an ethnic group mean that their crimes will be un-punished (or less than they are now)

Rashersocks · 28-02-2017 9:26pm

I'm curious as to where these sites are. I have a few near me and they are destroyed. The places look like something from a war film.

Badly Drunk Boy · 28-02-2017 9:26pm

Brian? wrote: »

According to geneticists they're as different to settled Irish people as Spanish people are.

Really? Have you read this seen this genetic study,?

http://www.rcsi.ie/index.jsp?p=100&n=110&a=10364

• Found that at a genetic level, Travellers are very close to settled Irish people, but show significant differences;
• Found no evidence for a recent shared ancestry between Irish Travellers and European Roma;
• Estimated the time when Travellers diverged from the settled population: approximately 12 generations (360 years) ago
• Shown subtle genetic differences between speakers of the Cant and Gammon dialects of the Traveller language.
• Found that the proportion of Traveller genomes where the maternal and paternal copies are identical was on a par with similar consanguineous populations in other countries.

realdanbreen · 28-02-2017 9:28pm

D0NNELLY wrote: »

Corkonians will be next

Oh no! Will that mean the company has to employ one traveller and one corkonian? And what if the traveller is from Cork?

Omackeral · 28-02-2017 9:28pm

Delacent wrote: »

Black people are less than 3 times more likely to be in prison compared to rest of population.

Travellers in Ireland are over 30 times more likely to be in prison compared to the rest of the population.

Sorry, but verifiable facts tell you that they are a criminally minded group of people.

Yeah but

Deleted User wrote: »

It is true that they face certain issues, like black people in the States they have higher crime rates and form a greater portion of the prison population.

Donal55 · 28-02-2017 9:29pm

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

Really? Have you read this seen this genetic study,?

http://www.rcsi.ie/index.jsp?p=100&n=110&a=10364

Has anyone in FG read that article or is Kenny just signing Executive Orders.

realdanbreen · 28-02-2017 9:30pm

Commotion Ocean wrote: »

Genuine question, so go easy on me.

How does recognising travellers as an ethnic group mean that their crimes will be un-punished (or less than they are now)

Look fancy pants, there's gonna be a lynching.....we can have the trial later!

28-02-2017 9:31pm

Delacent wrote: »

Black people are less than 3 times more likely to be in prison compared to rest of population.

Travellers in Ireland are over 30 times more likely to be in prison compared to the rest of the population.

Sorry, but verifiable facts tell you that they are a criminally minded group of people.

This says black people are 5 times more likely to be imprisoned...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/18/mass-incarceration-black-americans-higher-rates-disparities-report

And this says travellers are 5 to 11 times more likely to be imprisoned here...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/prison-report-uncovers-traveller-discrimination-269243.html

Which makes them far more comparable than your 3 and 30 stats...

vetinari · 28-02-2017 9:31pm

Jaysus, the next time someone in Ireland gives out about racism in other countries, they should be shown this thread.
I'd say the average person in this thread has met travellers what once or twice in their lives. There is about 30K Travellers in Ireland.
Pretty small number of people to generate such irrational levels of hate. Personally, I've never had any issues with the travellers that I've met. People are people.

Rashersocks · 28-02-2017 9:32pm

I'm curious how many of the Traveller apologists (and that's what you are if you defend their conduct) would be willing to live within, let's say one hundred metres of a halting site. I would love to chart over the course of their residence near this site, how their attitude to the traveller ''culture'' might shift.

Can you apologists see and hear?

28-02-2017 9:32pm

Omackeral wrote: »

Yeah but

Yeah but...his stats seem a bit suss...

28-02-2017 9:34pm

Rashersocks wrote: »

I'm curious how many of the Traveller apologists (and that's what you are if you defend their conduct) would be willing to live within, let's say one hundred metres of a halting site. I would love to chart over the course of their residence near this site, how their attitude to the traveller ''culture'' might shift.

Can you apologists see and hear?

I'm wondering if many of the bigots (and that's what you are if you hate them as a people) would love living beside a mosque, black people, Asians etc.

eviltwin · 28-02-2017 9:34pm

vetinari wrote: »

Jaysus, the next time someone in Ireland gives out about racism in other countries, they should be shown this thread.
I'd say the average person in this thread has met travellers what once or twice in their lives. There is about 30K Travellers in Ireland.
Pretty small number of people to generate such irrational levels of hate. Personally, I've never had any issues with the travellers that I've met. People are people.

Try living near them.

Working class heroes · 28-02-2017 9:34pm

How the hell has this thread not been closed?
Yis shower of tosspot **** should be ashamed of yourselfs.

Yourself isit · 28-02-2017 9:35pm

D0NNELLY wrote: »

You haven't had many dealings with them, have you?

He's a solicitor so he probably has.

It's odd that anti racists want race or ethnicity enshrined in law. Isn't it.

meeeeh · 28-02-2017 9:35pm

DontThankMe wrote: »

So the government has the time to do this but they don't have the time to create legislation so a seriously ill child can access medicinal cannabis that will vastly improve her quality of life.What a time to be alive!

Soapbox. Not to mention you wouldn't give a damn about sick children if the drug was not from marihuana.

How much of the population is in prison has nothing to do with being an ethnic minority. I actually think there are some valid arguments on both sides (the ones that don't mention crime rates) but I really can't see why it would be so bad to recognize them for minority. Their way of life, music, even look is fairly distinctive.

Brian? · 28-02-2017 9:36pm

Rashersocks wrote: »

Brian,

Are you simply naive or an apologist for travellers?

I'm as liberal as anyone could be but any interactions I have had with travellers has been negative. Anecdotal, perhaps, but I have yet to encounter anyone from Ireland with an opinion to the contrary.

Take a drive to to any halting site or purpose built accommodation for them and tell me it's money well spent. I will bet my house it looks look Aleppo. How much must be done for these people? Do they not have a responsibility to take up their end of the social contract?

Bigotry is usually baseless. Any flak travellers get is well earned by a rich history of law breaking and general mankiness.

I'm neither naive or an apologist for travellers, whatever the hell that is.

I've had positive and negative interactions with travellers. But deciding all travellers are criminals is bigotry, it's really that simple.

You're not as "liberal as anyone" if this is your viewpoint. You're a bigot in denial.

But I wasn't even going to address the bigotry aspect here until you brought it up. I'm addressing the idea that defining travellers as an ethnic minority will somehow make it easier for them to break the law or get jobs due to quotas. It won't. It had no basis is reality.

Rashersocks · 28-02-2017 9:36pm

I haven't been robbed by a black, a muslim or an asian yet.

Pull the other one Conor. You haven't had a cohesive response to anything yet as far as I can see. Would you happily live within close proximity to a halting site? Yes or no?

Sweetemotion · 28-02-2017 9:39pm

Rashersocks wrote: »

I haven't been robbed by a black, a muslim or an asian yet.

Pull the other one Conor. You haven't had a cohesive response to anything yet as far as I can see. Would you happily live within close proximity to a halting site? Yes or no?

Boards Conor, sure I'd move tomorrow.

Real Conor, Would I fukc.

meeeeh · 28-02-2017 9:39pm

Rashersocks wrote: »

I haven't been robbed by a black, a muslim or an asian yet.

Pull the other one Conor. You haven't had a cohesive response to anything yet as far as I can see. Would you happily live within close proximity to a halting site? Yes or no?

And recognizing them as ethnic minority will change that how?

Dr Crayfish · 28-02-2017 9:39pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm wondering if many of the bigots (and that's what you are if you hate them as a people) would love living beside a mosque, black people, Asians etc.

I used to go for lunch in the mosque in Clonskeagh when I lived there! There's a black family 2 doors down for me who are lovely! I wouldn't live anywhere near a halting site because they leave the entire area in a total f**king mess, and you know it!

RayM · 28-02-2017 9:39pm

Rashersocks wrote: »

I'm curious how many of the Traveller apologists (and that's what you are if you defend their conduct) would be willing to live within, let's say one hundred metres of a halting site. I would love to chart over the course of their residence near this site, how their attitude to the traveller ''culture'' might shift.

Can you apologists see and hear?

I lived near some Travellers (within less than 100 metres) for a few years. I never had any trouble with them. They lived in caravans on the roadside and kept their little piece of land in very good condition. One of them fixed my lawnmower once.

Pete69 · 28-02-2017 9:40pm

JayZeus wrote: »

I'm as far from being a bleeding heart liberal as you'll find.

Travellers ARE an ethnic group.

Understand it, before you facepalm it.

Really, so what or where does that ethnicity come from.

IMO if they hold an Irish birth cert and or passport, then they should be classed as Irish just like the rest of us, and by virtue of that be bound by the same laws we are, yet they seem to think they are above the law in this country.

These people have no respect for the rest of us yet we are expected to make allowances for their behaviour, because they chose to be different.

SEPT 23 1989 · 28-02-2017 9:40pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm wondering if many of the bigots (and that's what you are if you hate them as a people) would love living beside a mosque, black people, Asians etc.

I live and do business with all walks of life never an issue with them

Travellers are a different ball game

Sweetemotion · 28-02-2017 9:41pm

RayM wrote: »

I lived near some Travellers (within less than 100 metres) for a few years. I never had any trouble with them. They lived in caravans on the roadside and kept their little piece of land in very good condition. One of them fixed my lawnmower once.

Two caravans on a roadside, does not make a halting site.

hawkelady · 28-02-2017 9:41pm

[/QUOTE]

Hands up, this is a new one on me.

Is the BBC now rammed with travellers? Trying to think of any shows they present.[/quote]

I think they are fairly prominent on Crimewatch UK !!

Samaris · 28-02-2017 9:42pm

Mod: Okay, I'd like to leave this open, there's discussion to be had. As it stands, I'm closing it for review. There's been far too much sweeping stereotyping and personal insults going back and forth.

Travellers to be recognised as an ethnicicity tomorrow

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