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Travellers to be recognised as an ethnicicity tomorrow

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13

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    #62
    Dr Crayfish
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭Dr Crayfish


    Deleted User wrote: »
    How exactly?

    Will they be immune from prosecution?

    What's the connection between your perception of them as "dangerous people" and recognition as an ethnic group?

    Have you any experience in the real world? Ever come across these people in a pub with a few jars on them? I have never ever seen a group of these people behave themselves in a bar. Seriously man...


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    #63
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,912 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    The Ash Wednesday ethnicity law.

    This has nothing to do with ethnicity, follow the money.


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    #64
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Rashersocks wrote: »
    I'm as liberal as anyone could be but any interactions I have had with travellers has been negative. Anecdotal, perhaps, but I have yet to encounter anyone from Ireland with an opinion to the contrary...

    That's possibly because in Ireland you can express blatant bigotry and hatred about them and you get cheered to the rafters. A post with this has has dozens of thanks...
    Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »
    ...smelly inbred scum that they are.


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    #65
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dr Crayfish wrote: »
    Have you any experience in the real world? Ever come across these people in a pub with a few jars on them? I have never ever seen a group of these people behave themselves in a bar. Seriously man...

    Oh yaaaaaaaaaawn, not the "dealings with them" post.

    I've had 53 dealings with them. I count them. How about you?


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    #66
    red ears
    Closed Accounts Posts: 945 ✭✭✭red ears


    The legal profession will be cracking open the champagne tomorrow, discrimination cases will skyrocket.


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    #67
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    I'm going to copy and paste my previous post on this topic:
    http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057663619/2/#post101469746
    Pat Mustard wrote:
    Recognition of Traveller ethnicity is not something to be looked at in isolation. It needs to be looked at in the sense of what additional rights are being sought now or which may be sought in future.

    I'm in favour of education, training and assistance with accommodation for travellers. However, I don't think that they should be treated differently to other disadvantaged members of society, who also need education, training and assistance with accommodation.

    I think that it is a mistake to celebrate a culture involving a nomadic lifestyle at the expense of the taxpayer, which lifestyle is incompatible with proper education for children, housing, employment or in fitting in with Irish society in general.

    If Travellers were to be assimilated into the rest of society; if they had employment and education/training and housing, what aspect of Traveller culture would be lost, which could no longer be enjoyed by society?

    Travellers should get the appropriate help if they need it insofar as it is already given to disadvantaged people but I disagree with celebrating or incentivising the Traveller lifestyle and all that goes with it.

    We shouldn't have to change to fit in with them. They should change to fit in with us.


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    #68
    Delacent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭Delacent


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It is true that they face certain issues, like black people in the States they have higher crime rates and form a greater portion of the prison population. But in the States they don't conclude that "thus, black people are bad". Poverty, discrimination and deprivation may be factors.

    Black people are less than 3 times more likely to be in prison compared to rest of population.

    Travellers in Ireland are over 30 times more likely to be in prison compared to the rest of the population.

    Sorry, but verifiable facts tell you that they are a criminally minded group of people.


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    #69
    Commotion Ocean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 552 ✭✭✭Commotion Ocean


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    Untouchable now

    FG are really finished in rural Ireland after this
    Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »
    Does that mean crime is being legalised ??

    Genuine question, so go easy on me.

    How does recognising travellers as an ethnic group mean that their crimes will be un-punished (or less than they are now) :confused::confused::confused:


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    #70
    Rashersocks
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Rashersocks


    I'm curious as to where these sites are. I have a few near me and they are destroyed. The places look like something from a war film.


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    #71
    Badly Drunk Boy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,497 ✭✭✭Badly Drunk Boy


    Brian? wrote: »
    According to geneticists they're as different to settled Irish people as Spanish people are.

    Really? Have you read this seen this genetic study,?

    http://www.rcsi.ie/index.jsp?p=100&n=110&a=10364
    • Found that at a genetic level, Travellers are very close to settled Irish people, but show significant differences;
    • Found no evidence for a recent shared ancestry between Irish Travellers and European Roma;
    • Estimated the time when Travellers diverged from the settled population: approximately 12 generations (360 years) ago
    • Shown subtle genetic differences between speakers of the Cant and Gammon dialects of the Traveller language.
    • Found that the proportion of Traveller genomes where the maternal and paternal copies are identical was on a par with similar consanguineous populations in other countries.


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    #72
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,165 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    D0NNELLY wrote: »
    Corkonians will be next


    Oh no! Will that mean the company has to employ one traveller and one corkonian? And what if the traveller is from Cork?


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    #73
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Delacent wrote: »
    Black people are less than 3 times more likely to be in prison compared to rest of population.

    Travellers in Ireland are over 30 times more likely to be in prison compared to the rest of the population.

    Sorry, but verifiable facts tell you that they are a criminally minded group of people.

    Yeah but
    Deleted User wrote: »
    It is true that they face certain issues, like black people in the States they have higher crime rates and form a greater portion of the prison population.


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    #74
    Donal55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Donal55


    Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »
    Really? Have you read this seen this genetic study,?

    http://www.rcsi.ie/index.jsp?p=100&n=110&a=10364

    Has anyone in FG read that article or is Kenny just signing Executive Orders.


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    #75
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,165 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    Commotion Ocean wrote: »
    Genuine question, so go easy on me.

    How does recognising travellers as an ethnic group mean that their crimes will be un-punished (or less than they are now) :confused::confused::confused:

    Look fancy pants, there's gonna be a lynching.....we can have the trial later!


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    #76
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Delacent wrote: »
    Black people are less than 3 times more likely to be in prison compared to rest of population.

    Travellers in Ireland are over 30 times more likely to be in prison compared to the rest of the population.

    Sorry, but verifiable facts tell you that they are a criminally minded group of people.

    This says black people are 5 times more likely to be imprisoned...

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/18/mass-incarceration-black-americans-higher-rates-disparities-report

    And this says travellers are 5 to 11 times more likely to be imprisoned here...

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/prison-report-uncovers-traveller-discrimination-269243.html

    Which makes them far more comparable than your 3 and 30 stats...


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    #77
    vetinari
    Registered Users Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭vetinari


    Jaysus, the next time someone in Ireland gives out about racism in other countries, they should be shown this thread.
    I'd say the average person in this thread has met travellers what once or twice in their lives. There is about 30K Travellers in Ireland.
    Pretty small number of people to generate such irrational levels of hate. Personally, I've never had any issues with the travellers that I've met. People are people.


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    #78
    Rashersocks
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Rashersocks


    I'm curious how many of the Traveller apologists (and that's what you are if you defend their conduct) would be willing to live within, let's say one hundred metres of a halting site. I would love to chart over the course of their residence near this site, how their attitude to the traveller ''culture'' might shift.

    Can you apologists see and hear?


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    #79
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Yeah but

    Yeah but...his stats seem a bit suss...


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    #80
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Rashersocks wrote: »
    I'm curious how many of the Traveller apologists (and that's what you are if you defend their conduct) would be willing to live within, let's say one hundred metres of a halting site. I would love to chart over the course of their residence near this site, how their attitude to the traveller ''culture'' might shift.

    Can you apologists see and hear?

    I'm wondering if many of the bigots (and that's what you are if you hate them as a people) would love living beside a mosque, black people, Asians etc.


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    #81
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    vetinari wrote: »
    Jaysus, the next time someone in Ireland gives out about racism in other countries, they should be shown this thread.
    I'd say the average person in this thread has met travellers what once or twice in their lives. There is about 30K Travellers in Ireland.
    Pretty small number of people to generate such irrational levels of hate. Personally, I've never had any issues with the travellers that I've met. People are people.

    Try living near them.


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    #82
    Working class heroes
    Registered Users Posts: 3,512 ✭✭✭Working class heroes


    How the hell has this thread not been closed?
    Yis shower of tosspot **** should be ashamed of yourselfs.

    Racism is now hiding behind the cloak of Community activism.



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    #83
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    D0NNELLY wrote: »
    You haven't had many dealings with them, have you?

    He's a solicitor so he probably has.

    It's odd that anti racists want race or ethnicity enshrined in law. Isn't it.


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    #84
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    DontThankMe wrote: »
    So the government has the time to do this but they don't have the time to create legislation so a seriously ill child can access medicinal cannabis that will vastly improve her quality of life.What a time to be alive!

    Soapbox. Not to mention you wouldn't give a damn about sick children if the drug was not from marihuana.

    How much of the population is in prison has nothing to do with being an ethnic minority. I actually think there are some valid arguments on both sides (the ones that don't mention crime rates) but I really can't see why it would be so bad to recognize them for minority. Their way of life, music, even look is fairly distinctive.


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    #85
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,992 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Rashersocks wrote: »
    Brian,

    Are you simply naive or an apologist for travellers?

    I'm as liberal as anyone could be but any interactions I have had with travellers has been negative. Anecdotal, perhaps, but I have yet to encounter anyone from Ireland with an opinion to the contrary.

    Take a drive to to any halting site or purpose built accommodation for them and tell me it's money well spent. I will bet my house it looks look Aleppo. How much must be done for these people? Do they not have a responsibility to take up their end of the social contract?

    Bigotry is usually baseless. Any flak travellers get is well earned by a rich history of law breaking and general mankiness.

    I'm neither naive or an apologist for travellers, whatever the hell that is.

    I've had positive and negative interactions with travellers. But deciding all travellers are criminals is bigotry, it's really that simple.

    You're not as "liberal as anyone" if this is your viewpoint. You're a bigot in denial.

    But I wasn't even going to address the bigotry aspect here until you brought it up. I'm addressing the idea that defining travellers as an ethnic minority will somehow make it easier for them to break the law or get jobs due to quotas. It won't. It had no basis is reality.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #86
    Rashersocks
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Rashersocks


    I haven't been robbed by a black, a muslim or an asian yet.

    Pull the other one Conor. You haven't had a cohesive response to anything yet as far as I can see. Would you happily live within close proximity to a halting site? Yes or no?


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    #87
    Sweetemotion
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Sweetemotion


    Rashersocks wrote: »
    I haven't been robbed by a black, a muslim or an asian yet.

    Pull the other one Conor. You haven't had a cohesive response to anything yet as far as I can see. Would you happily live within close proximity to a halting site? Yes or no?



    Boards Conor, sure I'd move tomorrow.

    Real Conor, Would I fukc.


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    #88
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Rashersocks wrote: »
    I haven't been robbed by a black, a muslim or an asian yet.

    Pull the other one Conor. You haven't had a cohesive response to anything yet as far as I can see. Would you happily live within close proximity to a halting site? Yes or no?

    And recognizing them as ethnic minority will change that how?


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    #89
    Dr Crayfish
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭Dr Crayfish


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm wondering if many of the bigots (and that's what you are if you hate them as a people) would love living beside a mosque, black people, Asians etc.

    I used to go for lunch in the mosque in Clonskeagh when I lived there! There's a black family 2 doors down for me who are lovely! I wouldn't live anywhere near a halting site because they leave the entire area in a total f**king mess, and you know it!


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    #90
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    Rashersocks wrote: »
    I'm curious how many of the Traveller apologists (and that's what you are if you defend their conduct) would be willing to live within, let's say one hundred metres of a halting site. I would love to chart over the course of their residence near this site, how their attitude to the traveller ''culture'' might shift.

    Can you apologists see and hear?

    I lived near some Travellers (within less than 100 metres) for a few years. I never had any trouble with them. They lived in caravans on the roadside and kept their little piece of land in very good condition. One of them fixed my lawnmower once.


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    #91
    Pete69
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭Pete69


    JayZeus wrote: »
    I'm as far from being a bleeding heart liberal as you'll find.

    Travellers ARE an ethnic group.

    Understand it, before you facepalm it.

    Really, so what or where does that ethnicity come from.

    IMO if they hold an Irish birth cert and or passport, then they should be classed as Irish just like the rest of us, and by virtue of that be bound by the same laws we are, yet they seem to think they are above the law in this country.

    These people have no respect for the rest of us yet we are expected to make allowances for their behaviour, because they chose to be different.


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