All Ireland Senior Hurling (Liam Mccarthy Cup) 2019

Joe Daly · 19-08-2019 8:26am

A line ball that clearly went off a Limerick player first it was given the wrong way.

lawred2 · 19-08-2019 8:37am

lufties wrote: »

Fair enough. Thought the lads might be making a statement about the state of the country.

Seriously? Collectively making a political statement just after winning an all Ireland?

Also the state of the country? Ireland has objectively never had it so well.

Joe Daly · 19-08-2019 8:38am

xl500 wrote: »

KK fans all going on about decision of ref on hogan don't forget ye got to Final due to bad decision in Semi, Limerick line ball was clearly shown to be deflected by KK man for a 65

So ye benefited that day from a bad decision and today well thats the way it goes

The ball went off a limerick player first it was given the wrong way by the linesman.

Hammer Archer · 19-08-2019 8:39am

Guys, let's nip this political chat in the bud

lawred2 · 19-08-2019 8:40am

Yeah no worries.. I wasn't really looking for a response anyway.

C__MC · 19-08-2019 8:45am

Worst final in a living memory
Drab atmosphere all week in the build up plus a challenge match feel in the second half

Fair play to tipp better team and deserving champions!

Field east · 19-08-2019 8:50am

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Ffs...

Heard Cody interview on radio and ‘sour grapes ‘ came to mind. He alluded to the fact that the ref was not initially sure of what happened re the Hogan Barrett incident. In other words he ‘dillied dallied ‘ over the incident - suggesting that there was doubt in the refs mind, therefor he should have given Hogan the benefit of the doubt. From what I saw , it was the linesman who brought the incident to the notice of the ref, so of course the few had to ‘ gather all the facts’ b4 acting - especially given the potential influence of the outcome re a red card.

Cody also alluded to the wet conditions causing Hogan to not be totally in control of his actions as he approached Barrett. The TV showing the action speaks for itself- there was no ‘slipping and sliding’ in the approach contact and follow through by Hogan.
If Hogan wanted to ‘ get Barrett back’ for an earlier incident there were a thousand outer ways of doing it legitimally - the chief one being adding to the scoreboard. If he wanted to give Barrett a ‘ good shoulder’ to wind , injure or drive Barrett over the sideline then he should have done it with his shoulder and NOT his elbow. From an empathy point of view it was just a ‘ moment of madness ‘ by Hogan. As they say ‘ it can happen a bishop’

Did Barrett ‘ make a meal of it’? . What player does not ‘ go down’ or ‘ make a meal of it when there is a possibility of getting a free AT LEAST. The ‘ follow through’ by the victim is aimed at enhancing what happened for the refs and his assistants eyes. And saying to the ref - ‘ ref , look , I have been fouled’
A big issue is being made of 14 v 15 for half the match. The missing position was the Kilkenny CORNER FORWARD. So what were the goalie, the six backs , the two centerfield and the three half forwards doing to allow themselves be beaten by 14 points. Yes more ball was sent up from the Tipp backs, but No better team than Kilkenny to rise to the situation when the chips are down. For some strange reason , a GAA team with one ‘man’ down very often find the reserves to substantially compensate for the missing player.
IMO Cody was outfoxed by Sheedy. Tipp did little or no hurling in the First half and Kilkenny did all the hurling yet Tipp lead by a pt ad H time. They were expected to wake up in the second half and the definitely did.

xl500 · 19-08-2019 8:51am

Joe Daly wrote: »

The ball went off a limerick player first it was given the wrong way by the linesman.

thats twice you said that still does not change the fact that two wrongs dont make a right

Richie Hogans red card was totally justified and trying to say Barrett should have been carded etc etc does not change the fact

Mokuba · 19-08-2019 9:12am

Last Stop wrote: »

While Tipp were at their brilliant best in the second half, I can’t help but feel that a lot of the genuine Tipp fans will view this as a hollow victory.

Unfortunately for a Tipp, the same questions still remain over this team.

What a load of tripe.

A hollow victory.. I can assure you there is not a person in Tipperary who views this as a hollow victory. The only thing that would have made it any better is beating them by more.

We were down to 14 in the semi and 5 points down against a Wexford team that beat Kilkenny in a leinster final and we won. Last year we were a man down and 11 points down against Waterford and drew. It's not the end of the world. V Limerick in 2016 when we played almost the whole game with 14 and won?

We go down to 14 and we get on with it and get a result. Kilkenny go down to 14 and it kills the game? Rubbish. They capitulated after a deserved red card. I don't know how it's even a debate. It's a red card.

And I can also assure you that absolutely nobody in Tipperary cares about these perceived questions. We beat every team in Munster, the Joe McDonagh cup winners and both Leinster finalists. Fully deserving champions and it will be thoroughly celebrated and enjoyed.

kilkenny31 · 19-08-2019 9:20am

xl500 wrote: »

KK fans all going on about decision of ref on hogan don't forget ye got to Final due to bad decision in Semi, Limerick line ball was clearly shown to be deflected by KK man for a 65

So ye benefited that day from a bad decision and today well thats the way it goes

Should never have been a sideline cut to Limerick should have been to Kilkenny and if your suggesting for one second that Kilkenny didn't deserve to be in that all Ireland final and only got there because of a refereeing decision you weren't watching the same game. Kilkenny were deserved victors of Limerick and Tipperary were deserved victors over Kilkenny

The red card did change the game but Kilkenny should have adjusted. Tipp were essentially left with a sweeper and the best way to beat a sweeper system is to score points from out the field. Kilkenny didn't try do that instead chose to send pointless balls into the forwards.

Tipp used the extra man well and their forwards played fantastic. I think any honest hurling fan would agree that the sending off ruined the game.

lawred2 · 19-08-2019 9:24am

Last Stop wrote: »

While Tipp were at their brilliant best in the second half, I can’t help but feel that a lot of the genuine Tipp fans will view this as a hollow victory.

.....

Give that a rest

Why would Tipp - a team came from behind to beat Wexford when they were down to 14 men see this a hollow victory?

In a year where they beat - Cork, Limerick, Clare, Waterford, Laois, Wexford and Kilkenny to win the AI..

Yeah a hollow one alright.

BarryD2 · 19-08-2019 9:24am

Field east wrote: »

Heard Cody interview on radio and ‘sour grapes ‘ came to mind. He alluded to the fact that the ref was not initially sure of what happened re the Hogan Barrett incident. In other words he ‘dillied dallied ‘ over the incident - suggesting that there was doubt in the refs mind, therefor he should have given Hogan the benefit of the doubt. From what I saw , it was the linesman who brought the incident to the notice of the ref, so of course the few had to ‘ gather all the facts’ b4 acting - especially given the potential influence of the outcome re a red card.

Cody also alluded to the wet conditions causing Hogan to not be totally in control of his actions as he approached Barrett. The TV showing the action speaks for itself- there was no ‘slipping and sliding’ in the approach contact and follow through by Hogan.
If Hogan wanted to ‘ get Barrett back’ for an earlier incident there were a thousand outer ways of doing it legitimally - the chief one being adding to the scoreboard. If he wanted to give Barrett a ‘ good shoulder’ to wind , injure or drive Barrett over the sideline then he should have done it with his shoulder and NOT his elbow. From an empathy point of view it was just a ‘ moment of madness ‘ by Hogan. As they say ‘ it can happen a bishop’

Inclined to agree. KK have specialised in the past in playing hard & fast, over the edge of the rules in AI semifinal & finals. They'd waltz through Leinster. Then bet on the likelihood that the ref would not send men to the line, either because they'd miss the final or ruin the final. Yesterday the officials stood up and said no, you can't be clattering into people like that.

When that didn't work yesterday, they then reverted to plan and pumped the ball in, hoping for a break. That didn't work out either.

Know that Brian Cody is lauded for many years of success but kinda think he should have retired a few years ago when he was still ahead.

catrat12 · 19-08-2019 9:41am

Was at the match yesterday first off could not believe how many tickets were available around town, second never seen rain like it and as for the match obviously red card changed it, it was very hard to see at time it happened to judge but I have just watched the Sunday game there and to be honest it was 100% red

lawred2 · 19-08-2019 9:43am

KK revel in the man on man stuff... physical battle - if enough Kilkenny players get the better of their man then they often come out on the right end of things..

The red card changed the dynamic and gave Tipp space and time. It was no longer primarily a battle hinging on physicality and intensity - it was now more about space and the movement of both man and the ball..

And the better ball players won out.

It's no surprise to me that the likes of Bubbles had a far better time in the second half than they did in the first.. time and space to do what they do best.

At the same time, Richie Hogan, a corner forward, is not worth 14 points. Kilkenny could still have contained Tipp better than what they did. I'm really not sure what they were playing at sending the ball in on top of Kennedy and Maher for the entirety of that second half.

PhuckHugh22 · 19-08-2019 9:49am

I keep seeing this comment that the red card ruined the game. Should we be ensuring a good game and not applying the rules at the expense of the players?
If you believe the game was ruined by the red card then take up your frustrations with Richie Hogan!!

rebs23 · 19-08-2019 9:53am

The best Hurling team all year won the All Ireland. Congratulations Tipperary. Congratulations to the referee as well yesterday as we simply could not go with the type of refereeing and some of the so called hurling that took place in the semi - finals.
Since the helmet became mandatory, tackling has developed to a dangerous level at head height and Hogans decision to elbow a player into the jaw was rightly punished.

Gentleman Off The Pitch · 19-08-2019 9:57am

rebs23 wrote: »

The best Hurling team all year won the All Ireland. Congratulations Tipperary. Congratulations to the referee as well yesterday as we simply could not go with the type of refereeing and some of the so called hurling that took place in the semi - finals.
Since the helmet became mandatory, tackling has developed to a dangerous level at head height and Hogans decision to elbow a player into the jaw was rightly punished.

Hogan suffered a much worse hit in the qf with Cork, with no red dished out, I'm sure you felt the same concern about "dangerous" tackling then too.

rebs23 · 19-08-2019 10:11am

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

Hogan suffered a much worse hit in the qf with Cork, with no red dished out, I'm sure you felt the same concern about "dangerous" tackling then too.

Absolutely. Needs to be stamped out.

Bridge93 · 19-08-2019 10:15am

People keep saying ‘it ruined the game’ as if that matters even a tiny bit. A red card offense deserves a red card regardless of it effect on the game as a spectacle. Pundits saying it should be taken into accounts it’s finals day is nonsense. It was a red card, blatantly obvious. The amount of debate around it is crazy. The whataboutery regarding other challenges is rubbish too.

The reaction from Kilkenny to the whole day has been very disappointing from such a great hurling county

corner back 2 · 19-08-2019 10:15am

Field east wrote: »

Heard Cody interview on radio and ‘sour grapes ‘ came to mind. He alluded to the fact that the ref was not initially sure of what happened re the Hogan Barrett incident. In other words he ‘dillied dallied ‘ over the incident - suggesting that there was doubt in the refs mind, therefor he should have given Hogan the benefit of the doubt. From what I saw , it was the linesman who brought the incident to the notice of the ref, so of course the few had to ‘ gather all the facts’ b4 acting - especially given the potential influence of the outcome re a red card.

Cody also alluded to the wet conditions causing Hogan to not be totally in control of his actions as he approached Barrett. The TV showing the action speaks for itself- there was no ‘slipping and sliding’ in the approach contact and follow through by Hogan.
If Hogan wanted to ‘ get Barrett back’ for an earlier incident there were a thousand outer ways of doing it legitimally - the chief one being adding to the scoreboard. If he wanted to give Barrett a ‘ good shoulder’ to wind , injure or drive Barrett over the sideline then he should have done it with his shoulder and NOT his elbow. From an empathy point of view it was just a ‘ moment of madness ‘ by Hogan. As they say ‘ it can happen a bishop’

Did Barrett ‘ make a meal of it’? . What player does not ‘ go down’ or ‘ make a meal of it when there is a possibility of getting a free AT LEAST. The ‘ follow through’ by the victim is aimed at enhancing what happened for the refs and his assistants eyes. And saying to the ref - ‘ ref , look , I have been fouled’
A big issue is being made of 14 v 15 for half the match. The missing position was the Kilkenny CORNER FORWARD. So what were the goalie, the six backs , the two centerfield and the three half forwards doing to allow themselves be beaten by 14 points. Yes more ball was sent up from the Tipp backs, but No better team than Kilkenny to rise to the situation when the chips are down. For some strange reason , a GAA team with one ‘man’ down very often find the reserves to substantially compensate for the missing player.
IMO Cody was outfoxed by Sheedy. Tipp did little or no hurling in the First half and Kilkenny did all the hurling yet Tipp lead by a pt ad H time. They were expected to wake up in the second half and the definitely did.

First of all Tipp were the better team and the red card was probably deserved. But do you really expect an inter county manager to go on the airwaves post match and not defend his own player? Cody demands fierce loyalty from his players and is obviously going to show it in return on the airwaves. The biggest issue about 14 v 15 is not just corner forward it's more about the space left and Tipp were masterful in there use of it. Of course KK could have tried different tactics but probably wouldn't have altered the result due to Tipps excellent performance.

sanjose1 · 19-08-2019 10:21am

Well a little graciousness in defeat would suffice, Cody didnt give one ounce of credit to Tipp, but then hes in the same category of Ferguson/Wenger of never crediting the opposition for anything

marvin80 · 19-08-2019 10:28am

Bridge93 wrote: »

The reaction from Kilkenny to the whole day has been very disappointing from such a great hurling county

Disappointing but not surprising.

Gentleman Off The Pitch · 19-08-2019 10:33am

Bridge93 wrote: »

People keep saying ‘it ruined the game’ as if that matters even a tiny bit. A red card offense deserves a red card regardless of it effect on the game as a spectacle. Pundits saying it should be taken into accounts it’s finals day is nonsense. It was a red card, blatantly obvious. The amount of debate around it is crazy. The whataboutery regarding other challenges is rubbish too.

The reaction from Kilkenny to the whole day has been very disappointing from such a great hurling county

When there is such inconsistency in the application of rules discussion of other similar incidents that did not result in red cards is going to happen whether you like it or not

corner back 2 · 19-08-2019 10:42am

Bridge93 wrote: »

People keep saying ‘it ruined the game’ as if that matters even a tiny bit. A red card offense deserves a red card regardless of it effect on the game as a spectacle. Pundits saying it should be taken into accounts it’s finals day is nonsense. It was a red card, blatantly obvious. The amount of debate around it is crazy. The whataboutery regarding other challenges is rubbish too.

The reaction from Kilkenny to the whole day has been very disappointing from such a great hurling county

Plenty of KK people on here crediting Tipp for their performance. We are however entitled to defend our own as I imagine you would with your own county and players and will make no apologies for that. Plenty of anti KK brigade on here so some do feel its necessary to support our own due to the service and enjoyment they have given our county over the years. Once again fair play to Tipp better team on the day. Onwards and upwards to next year.

Road-Hog · 19-08-2019 10:44am

sanjose1 wrote: »

Well a little graciousness in defeat would suffice, Cody didnt give one ounce of credit to Tipp, but then hes in the same category of Ferguson/Wenger of never crediting the opposition for anything

Be careful it’s not cool to say anything negative about ‘sir brian’......?

Bridge93 · 19-08-2019 10:47am

corner back 2 wrote: »

Plenty of KK people on here crediting Tipp for their performance. We are however entitled to defend our own as I imagine you would with your own county and players and will make no apologies for that. Plenty of anti KK brigade on here so some do feel its necessary to support our own due to the service and enjoyment they have given our county over the years. Once again fair play to Tipp better team on the day. Onwards and upwards to next year.

Defend your own absolutely. The way some are trying to defend Hogan is nonsensical. Defend his character and ability against some ridiculous claims. But to defend the challenge as many are trying is wrong. As are the attacks on Barrett. That the red wasn’t justified for ‘ruining the game’. Ex players talking out their hole with zero perspective or humility

Many have said well done Tipp. Many have gone ‘well done Tipp, but...’
Others have gone and only talked about the clear red as being wrong. The Kilkenny thread comes across as horribly bitter

C__MC · 19-08-2019 10:51am

Tipp deserved their win.
Better hurlers better players.

A dark day for kilkenny. Mauled by tipp again, played stone age tactics in the second half. I was disappointed in them. But quite simply they havent got the class that's needed to win. Cody worked wonders to get them back to the final.

It wont be a final that lives long in the memory
Tickets were everywhere before hand, it was drab and a boring game in comparison to 17 and 18.

Roll on 2020

Last Stop · 19-08-2019 10:53am

Field east wrote: »

Heard Cody interview on radio and ‘sour grapes ‘ came to mind. He alluded to the fact that the ref was not initially sure of what happened re the Hogan Barrett incident. In other words he ‘dillied dallied ‘ over the incident - suggesting that there was doubt in the refs mind, therefor he should have given Hogan the benefit of the doubt. From what I saw , it was the linesman who brought the incident to the notice of the ref, so of course the few had to ‘ gather all the facts’ b4 acting - especially given the potential influence of the outcome re a red card.

Cody also alluded to the wet conditions causing Hogan to not be totally in control of his actions as he approached Barrett. The TV showing the action speaks for itself- there was no ‘slipping and sliding’ in the approach contact and follow through by Hogan.
If Hogan wanted to ‘ get Barrett back’ for an earlier incident there were a thousand outer ways of doing it legitimally - the chief one being adding to the scoreboard. If he wanted to give Barrett a ‘ good shoulder’ to wind , injure or drive Barrett over the sideline then he should have done it with his shoulder and NOT his elbow. From an empathy point of view it was just a ‘ moment of madness ‘ by Hogan. As they say ‘ it can happen a bishop’

Did Barrett ‘ make a meal of it’? . What player does not ‘ go down’ or ‘ make a meal of it when there is a possibility of getting a free AT LEAST. The ‘ follow through’ by the victim is aimed at enhancing what happened for the refs and his assistants eyes. And saying to the ref - ‘ ref , look , I have been fouled’
A big issue is being made of 14 v 15 for half the match. The missing position was the Kilkenny CORNER FORWARD. So what were the goalie, the six backs , the two centerfield and the three half forwards doing to allow themselves be beaten by 14 points. Yes more ball was sent up from the Tipp backs, but No better team than Kilkenny to rise to the situation when the chips are down. For some strange reason , a GAA team with one ‘man’ down very often find the reserves to substantially compensate for the missing player.
IMO Cody was outfoxed by Sheedy. Tipp did little or no hurling in the First half and Kilkenny did all the hurling yet Tipp lead by a pt ad H time. They were expected to wake up in the second half and the definitely did.

I can think of at least 4 incidents where players have done the exact opposite of what you are suggesting (including 2 in AI finals). Defending a player for feigning injury by suggesting all others do it is a sad reflection on the game.
I have no doubt that this influenced the referees decision.

I would have to agree that the referee took an extraordinarily amount of time to make the decision. I know it was a big decision but usually with a red card it is done straight away. I never agreed with checking with the injured player before closing the incident. The extent of the injury should not influence the decision as a player can be badly injured by an innocuous foul or a player can be fine after a bad foul. The fact that he had a chat with Richie (no t BTW) before sending him off was also quite odd. I am not saying for one second that the red was the wrong decision but I think The reaction of the player has to be challenged when they appear to be exaggerating the injury.

Can we also put to bed this ****e of Richie trying to retaliate for an earlier incident. Richie is not that kind of player first of all and watching it, it is clear that Barrett’s footwork caught Richie out. If Richie wanted to retaliate then he would have done it on the scoreboard!!

Your reading of the spare man is far too simplistic. Yes Tipp had a free corner back but that allowed then the space to put good ball into the full forward line. This is what killed Kilkenny. The Kilkenny backs hurled extremely well in a difficult situation so to question their play yesterday is not lazy analysis. In other games particularly when teams player a sweeper being a man down doesn’t mean as much but when your game plan is based on

I dont believe that Tipp would have run away with it if it was 15v15. Yes they were having their purple patch but so did Limerick towards the end of the semi final. A point down at half time and playing with the wind in the second half I think you would have been foolish to say it was game over for Kilkenny.

Sweet.Science · 19-08-2019 10:57am

Last Stop wrote: »

I can think of at least 4 incidents where players have done the exact opposite of what you are suggesting (including 2 in AI finals). Defending a player for feigning injury by suggesting all others do it is a sad reflection on the game.
I have no doubt that this influenced the referees decision.

I would have to agree that the referee took an extraordinarily amount of time to make the decision. I know it was a big decision but usually with a red card it is done straight away. I never agreed with checking with the injured player before closing the incident. The extent of the injury should not influence the decision as a player can be badly injured by an innocuous foul or a player can be fine after a bad foul. The fact that he had a chat with Richie (no t BTW) before sending him off was also quite odd. I am not saying for one second that the red was the wrong decision but I think The reaction of the player has to be challenged when they appear to be exaggerating the injury.

Can we also put to bed this ****e of Richie trying to retaliate for an earlier incident. Richie is not that kind of player first of all and watching it, it is clear that Barrett’s footwork caught Richie out. If Richie wanted to retaliate then he would have done it on the scoreboard!!

Your reading of the spare man is far too simplistic. Yes Tipp had a free corner back but that allowed then the space to put good ball into the full forward line. This is what killed Kilkenny. The Kilkenny backs hurled extremely well in a difficult situation so to question their play yesterday is not lazy analysis. In other games particularly when teams player a sweeper being a man down doesn’t mean as much but when your game plan is based on

I dont believe that Tipp would have run away with it if it was 15v15. Yes they were having their purple patch but so did Limerick towards the end of the semi final. A point down at half time and playing with the wind in the second half I think you would have been foolish to say it was game over for Kilkenny.

Disagree - it was clear as day he was looking to leave one on Barrett after getting a smack earlier

He put this before his team on the biggest stage of all

Amazing the ref and Barrett are taking flak for this. All Kilkennys ire should be at Hogan himself

slegs · 19-08-2019 11:01am

corner back 2 wrote: »

Plenty of KK people on here crediting Tipp for their performance. We are however entitled to defend our own as I imagine you would with your own county and players and will make no apologies for that. Plenty of anti KK brigade on here so some do feel its necessary to support our own due to the service and enjoyment they have given our county over the years. Once again fair play to Tipp better team on the day. Onwards and upwards to next year.

Not really. Token “Tipp were the better team but...” replies mostly where it goes on to argue that the sending off shouldn’t have happened and that it changed the game. Sour grapes is all it comes across as

Last Stop · 19-08-2019 11:05am

lawred2 wrote: »

Give that a rest

Why would Tipp - a team came from behind to beat Wexford when they were down to 14 men see this a hollow victory?

In a year where they beat - Cork, Limerick, Clare, Waterford, Laois, Wexford and Kilkenny to win the AI..

Yeah a hollow one alright.

The manner of the win yesterday and the fact that there are still questions about some of their key players suggests that a lot of Tipp fans won’t be celebrating or boasting as much as previous years. I’m not denying them the All Ireland they have been outstanding throughout the championship but there will be a be a lingering feeling hanging over this one. I get the feeling that Tipp would have loved a one point win over Kilkenny to prove they have the bottle etc. Yesterday when it was still close, a lot of their star players were way off the pace and only came into when the game opened up. Not taking away from the year they had but I expect (and so far I have been correct) that celebrations will be subdued.

bruschi · 19-08-2019 11:09am

Last Stop wrote: »

I can think of at least 4 incidents where players have done the exact opposite of what you are suggesting (including 2 in AI finals). Defending a player for feigning injury by suggesting all others do it is a sad reflection on the game.
I have no doubt that this influenced the referees decision.

I would have to agree that the referee took an extraordinarily amount of time to make the decision. I know it was a big decision but usually with a red card it is done straight away. I never agreed with checking with the injured player before closing the incident. The extent of the injury should not influence the decision as a player can be badly injured by an innocuous foul or a player can be fine after a bad foul. The fact that he had a chat with Richie (no t BTW) before sending him off was also quite odd. I am not saying for one second that the red was the wrong decision but I think The reaction of the player has to be challenged when they appear to be exaggerating the injury.

Can we also put to bed this ****e of Richie trying to retaliate for an earlier incident. Richie is not that kind of player first of all and watching it, it is clear that Barrett’s footwork caught Richie out. If Richie wanted to retaliate then he would have done it on the scoreboard!!

Your reading of the spare man is far too simplistic. Yes Tipp had a free corner back but that allowed then the space to put good ball into the full forward line. This is what killed Kilkenny. The Kilkenny backs hurled extremely well in a difficult situation so to question their play yesterday is not lazy analysis. In other games particularly when teams player a sweeper being a man down doesn’t mean as much but when your game plan is based on

I dont believe that Tipp would have run away with it if it was 15v15. Yes they were having their purple patch but so did Limerick towards the end of the semi final. A point down at half time and playing with the wind in the second half I think you would have been foolish to say it was game over for Kilkenny.

of all the posts so far, I think I couldnt disagree with this one more. In every aspect.

The ref took his time. He didnt rush what was to be a critical incident. He spoke with the linesman. He made sure that there was actual contact with Barrett. He spoke with Hogan to ensure he knew exactly why he was getting a red card. He did everything right in the moment. he didnt rush in, he made a careful considered, and absolutely 100% correct decision.

"not that kind of player" I love that cliche. Always to excuse a bad tackle. Hogan was sold a dummy, and threw out an elbow to make connection with a players head.

A Tipp man free in the corner backs meant they had space in the full forward line? It is not lazy analysis to say Kilkennys tactics were abysmal when down to 14. You dont continuously keep hitting high balls down to their spare man when you are a man down. Thats not lazy analysis, it is calling as it is and that Kilkenny and Cody played an awful game after half time when they had a chance to reorganise and sort themselves out. Many teams have done it with 14 and played well. Kilkenny gave a template of how not to do it.

Tipperary had weathered the storm and despite all Kilkennys huffing and puffing, they didnt get much over on them despite having their best period and Tipperarys worst. I've no doubt Tipp would have won handy anyway, but no one will really know.

Last Stop · 19-08-2019 11:13am

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Disagree - it was clear as day he was looking to leave one on Barrett after getting a smack earlier

He put this before his team on the biggest stage of all

Amazing the ref and Barrett are taking flak for this. All Kilkennys ire should be at Hogan himself

How can it be clear as day that it was a retaliation? Can you read minds now?
Anyone who knows Richie knows he is certainly not that kind of player. Even the Tipp fan beside me yesterday said that.

The majority of Kilkenny fans know Richie was wrong but are frustrated by the overreaction of Barrett and the delay in the decision making of the referee. If Barrett had gotten straight back up and the referee walked over and showed the red then it would be a different story. Again this is not saying it wasn’t a red but the feeling that every attempt was made to ensure it was a red rather than the other way around.

the_pen_turner · 19-08-2019 11:15am

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Disagree - it was clear as day he was looking to leave one on Barrett after getting a smack earlier

He put this before his team on the biggest stage of all

Amazing the ref and Barrett are taking flar this. All Kilkennys ire should be at Hogan himself

it was a blatant attack on barret . its very obviously done to get back at him. its not like he slid into him. hogan put is arm out to make contact with barrett.

Snow Garden · 19-08-2019 11:15am

Agree completely that the ref took his time, mulled it over and talked to his linesman etc and eventually took the absolutely correct decision.
...but what puzzled me is why he went over to see how injured/rattled Barrett was. I mean an elbow into the face is a straight red card. End of story. So why did he actually look at Barrett? He wasn't checking if he was fit to continue. He was clearly checking how he 'looked'. Strange.
If Barrett had been smiling and looking totally alert or had already walked back into position, I wonder would the ref had bottled the decision and gone yellow?
In any event I am glad he went red. Refs should always follow the rules, even in a final.

Gentleman Off The Pitch · 19-08-2019 11:17am

This notion that Tipp had weathered the storm implying that Tipp were going to dominate from that point on in the game and Kilkenny wouldn't lead again involves just as much speculation as saying Kilkenny would have won had it been 15 on 15 for the entire game

mountgomery burns · 19-08-2019 11:18am

The levels of delusion some of the lads posting on this thread operate under is quite staggering.

the_pen_turner · 19-08-2019 11:23am

bruschi wrote: »

of all the posts so far, I think I couldnt disagree with this one more. In every aspect.

The ref took his time. He didnt rush what was to be a critical incident. He spoke with the linesman. He made sure that there was actual contact with Barrett. He spoke with Hogan to ensure he knew exactly why he was getting a red card. He did everything right in the moment. he didnt rush in, he made a careful considered, and absolutely 100% correct decision.

"not that kind of player" I love that cliche. Always to excuse a bad tackle. Hogan was sold a dummy, and threw out an elbow to make connection with a players head.

A Tipp man free in the corner backs meant they had space in the full forward line? It is not lazy analysis to say Kilkennys tactics were abysmal when down to 14. You dont continuously keep hitting high balls down to their spare man when you are a man down. Thats not lazy analysis, it is calling as it is and that Kilkenny and Cody played an awful game after half time when they had a chance to reorganise and sort themselves out. Many teams have done it with 14 and played well. Kilkenny gave a template of how not to do it.

Tipperary had weathered the storm and despite all Kilkennys huffing and puffing, they didnt get much over on them despite having their best period and Tipperarys worst. I've no doubt Tipp would have won handy anyway, but no one will really know.

what made kilkenny so great for so long was depth of players they had. they always had another gear to go into and the ability to change to suit the game. if 2 or 3 players had an off day or were marked out of it ,there was always a few on the bench that could change the match.

they didnt have that yesterday . no plan b . they were bet after 20 minutes. they scored very little from play in the first half . if tipp were more disiplined tj reid wouldnt have scored as many

Last Stop · 19-08-2019 11:25am

bruschi wrote: »

of all the posts so far, I think I couldnt disagree with this one more. In every aspect.

The ref took his time. He didnt rush what was to be a critical incident. He spoke with the linesman. He made sure that there was actual contact with Barrett. He spoke with Hogan to ensure he knew exactly why he was getting a red card. He did everything right in the moment. he didnt rush in, he made a careful considered, and absolutely 100% correct decision.

"not that kind of player" I love that cliche. Always to excuse a bad tackle. Hogan was sold a dummy, and threw out an elbow to make connection with a players head.

A Tipp man free in the corner backs meant they had space in the full forward line? It is not lazy analysis to say Kilkennys tactics were abysmal when down to 14. You dont continuously keep hitting high balls down to their spare man when you are a man down. Thats not lazy analysis, it is calling as it is and that Kilkenny and Cody played an awful game after half time when they had a chance to reorganise and sort themselves out. Many teams have done it with 14 and played well. Kilkenny gave a template of how not to do it.

Tipperary had weathered the storm and despite all Kilkennys huffing and puffing, they didnt get much over on them despite having their best period and Tipperarys worst. I've no doubt Tipp would have won handy anyway, but no one will really know.

If the ref has to speak to the injured player to know whether contact was made or not as you have suggested (I personally think the linesman saw it) then it is an questionable decision.

The defence of Richie is not that kind of player comes back to those suggestions that he would go out and try to do a player because he got fouled earlier. Yes it was a bad tackle and that it’s mainly due to the agility of Barrett not the intent of Richie.

It is lazy analysis to not understand the influence of a free man on Kilkennys game plan. Their game plan was working extremely well for the first 20 minutes when they went 8 points to 3 up. Yes Tipp had their purple patch after that but Kilkenny were still well in the game with a number of the Tipp forwards struggling with the close attention from the Kilkenny backs. The free man allowed Tipp to run the ball out of defence and play good quality ball into the forwards.

Last Stop · 19-08-2019 11:26am

the_pen_turner wrote: »

it was a blatant attack on barret . its very obviously done to get back at him. its not like he slid into him. hogan put is arm out to make contact with barrett.

After Barrett took a step back

the_pen_turner · 19-08-2019 11:28am

Last Stop wrote: »

After Barrett took a step back

exactly. barrett stepped back so hogan put his arm out to make contact

Last Stop · 19-08-2019 11:34am

https://youtu.be/tfvChBew_h0

So here is an incident with Lar Corbett that was only given a yellow. To me this incident is far worse as it is a shoulder to the head at high speed.
You’ll also note that the referee gave the yellow before checking the injured player.

I’m not saying that this was the right call but I would like to see people compare it to the one yesterday.

robbiezero · 19-08-2019 11:38am

Last Stop wrote: »

The manner of the win yesterday and the fact that there are still questions about some of their key players suggests that a lot of Tipp fans won’t be celebrating or boasting as much as previous years. I’m not denying them the All Ireland they have been outstanding throughout the championship but there will be a be a lingering feeling hanging over this one. I get the feeling that Tipp would have loved a one point win over Kilkenny to prove they have the bottle etc. Yesterday when it was still close, a lot of their star players were way off the pace and only came into when the game opened up. Not taking away from the year they had but I expect (and so far I have been correct) that celebrations will be subdued.

Absolute rubbish, almost every word of it. Tipp had stormed back into the game before the red card.
Their big players have stood up all year, Callanan, Noel Mc, The Mahers etc. No questions whatsoever about them, we will be celebrating as much as any of the other wins.

C__MC · 19-08-2019 11:39am

Last Stop wrote: »

https://youtu.be/tfvChBew_h0

So here is an incident with Lar Corbett that was only given a yellow. To me this incident is far worse as it is a shoulder to the head at high speed.
You’ll also note that the referee gave the yellow before checking the injured player.

I’m not saying that this was the right call but I would like to see people compare it to the one yesterday.

That was 2008
A long time ago
Refs are clamping down on the high tackles in more recent times
It's the consistency I have an issue with

the_pen_turner · 19-08-2019 11:40am

Last Stop wrote: »

https://youtu.be/tfvChBew_h0

So here is an incident with Lar Corbett that was only given a yellow. To me this incident is far worse as it is a shoulder to the head at high speed.
You’ll also note that the referee gave the yellow before checking the injured player.

I’m not saying that this was the right call but I would like to see people compare it to the one yesterday.

that poor security guy . he got polaxed

firstly that was before this new rule.

i think those kinds of takles should be a red. that should have been a red.

bruschi · 19-08-2019 11:47am

Last Stop wrote: »

If the ref has to speak to the injured player to know whether contact was made or not as you have suggested (I personally think the linesman saw it) then it is an questionable decision.

The defence of Richie is not that kind of player comes back to those suggestions that he would go out and try to do a player because he got fouled earlier. Yes it was a bad tackle and that it’s mainly due to the agility of Barrett not the intent of Richie.

It is lazy analysis to not understand the influence of a free man on Kilkennys game plan. Their game plan was working extremely well for the first 20 minutes when they went 8 points to 3 up. Yes Tipp had their purple patch after that but Kilkenny were still well in the game with a number of the Tipp forwards struggling with the close attention from the Kilkenny backs. The free man allowed Tipp to run the ball out of defence and play good quality ball into the forwards.

It is lazy analysis to think that when you go a man down that it is still considered acceptable to keep playing the same tactics. I'm not talking about Kilkennys defending or Tipps attacking, but the most obvious "lazy analysis" from yesterday was Kilkenny attacking and kept on driving ball after ball on top off the Tipp defence who had a man extra.

Snow Garden · 19-08-2019 11:50am

bruschi wrote: »

It is lazy analysis to think that when you go a man down that it is still considered acceptable to keep playing the same tactics. I'm not talking about Kilkennys defending or Tipps attacking, but the most obvious "lazy analysis" from yesterday was Kilkenny attacking and kept on driving ball after ball on top off the Tipp defence who had a man extra.

Yeah I knew the game was up when KK kept sending those balls in to outnumbered forwards. Crazy stuff, you'd have words with the U-14 manager if he was doing it.

SAMTALK · 19-08-2019 12:02pm

Maher totally overacted in Laois game when Dunphy struck him with hurl the same as Barratt did yesterday, but I actually thought Hogans was far worse than Dunphy's ' in the sense that it was probably more dangerous.

The 2 were red cards offences by the rules so KK cannot complain about it. Hogan raised his arm up to connnect so he cannot have an complaints today .

Snow Garden · 19-08-2019 12:03pm

Jaysus lads, don't be getting Tipp's backs up by telling them it was a soft/unfair All Ireland.
We want the Tipp lads celebrating hard and supping free pints until April. They are an impressive
team in full flow but we dont want them doing back-to-back wins!

Dyr · 19-08-2019 12:07pm

Last Stop wrote: »

After Barrett took a step back

He took a step back? The dirty tinker

Why are people even debating this, some level of delusion.

All Ireland Senior Hurling (Liam Mccarthy Cup) 2019

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