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queuing at lights

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  • 02-05-2018 9:03am
    #1
    site_owner
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭


    i'm not mad on queuing at lights, I'm usually up in the ASL box taking the lane until the group spreads out, which it always does seeing as you have such a mix of speeds. i'm pretty fast off the lights so i'm comfortable up there, on occasion another fast commuter or ebike will be quicker but we figure that out instantly and merge as appropriate.

    i saw this on twitter this morning and, while i get that not everyone wants to be in the ASL box, or feels safe taking off in a bunch so some will hang back, and sometimes there is no room and safety takes precedent, this just seems bananas to me. half of this queue wont make it through the lights. some would be better off dismounting and walking.

    anyway, thats my opinion, what does everyone else think?

    https://twitter.com/nickkeeganirl/status/991360574712893440


    image for those without twitter
    https://i.imgur.com/Y1X3vQh.jpg


«1

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    #2
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,267 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    How short do you think the light sequence is? Everyone in that photo is going to make it through.


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    #3
    Ray Bloody Purchase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 689 ✭✭✭Ray Bloody Purchase


    What's the rush? If you don't make it through, wait until they go green again. :confused::confused:


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    #4
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭buffalo


    What ASL box?


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    #5
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,265 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Yep queues like that do my head in and are dangerous as no doubt some one will have a truck or bus pull up along side of them.

    Those at the front need to move right and place themselves in front of the lead vehicle ( most lights nowadays have advanced bike boxes ) that’ll allow several cyclists to get out in front and pulls the other drivers up and reduces the likelihood of having a HGV pull up alongside


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    #6
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,267 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Don't agree that queuing on the left is the best idea though. Pull up in the lane behind the last car in the queue instead. Only move up if you're likely to make progress, i.e. if you're not likely to make it through the lights on the next sequence.


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    #7
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,269 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    buffalo wrote: »
    What ASL box?
    Advanced Stop Line. Routinely, and often deliberately, ignored by motorists.


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    #8
    ConnyMcDavid
    Registered Users Posts: 229 ✭✭ConnyMcDavid


    Can imagine a few seconds later the slowest cyclist with a big heavy city bike with basket comes plodding along and pulls in in front of the queue.


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    #9
    site_owner
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭site_owner


    Baron de Charlus wrote: »
    How short do you think the light sequence is? Everyone in that photo is going to make it through.

    including the 10 behind? and what happens when vehicles start turning left?


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    #10
    site_owner
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭site_owner


    Ray Bloody Purchase wrote: »
    What's the rush? If you don't make it through, wait until they go green again. :confused::confused:

    safety for one, if cars start turning left.
    progress is another, if bike in front turns out to be going 10-15km then i would rather not have to overtake in traffic.


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    #11
    site_owner
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭site_owner


    buffalo wrote: »
    What ASL box?

    its not in red there, but the section ahead of the cars


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    #12
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Nothing pisses me off more than having the same slow, fat fecker on a banger squeezing in front of you at the lights, only to hamper your progress as it's unsafe to pass him until there's a break in traffic. This means that when you do finally make it past him, you're caught at the next lights and the whole sequence repeats itself.

    :mad:


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    #13
    site_owner
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭site_owner


    ConnyMcDavid wrote: »
    Can imagine a few seconds later the slowest cyclist with a big heavy city bike with basket comes plodding along and pulls in in front of the queue.

    well thats another concern, if i do queue like this, and the bike at the front is not paying attention or does take off at sub 15km then there is a real danger of risky overtaking in tarffic with 17 bikes accelrating off


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    #14
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,267 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    site_owner wrote: »
    including the 10 behind? and what happens when vehicles start turning left?

    You never said there was ten people behind. And if people queued in the lane rather than on the left, they wouldn't risk being hit by a left turning vehicle.


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    #15
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    site_owner wrote: »
    including the 10 behind? and what happens when vehicles start turning left?

    There's no way in hell any car should attempt a left turn with such a long line of cyclists there. They'd only attempt it if there was a big gap between cyclists, which shouldn't really occur, but if it did then there's only room for one car to make it through anyway.


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    #16
    site_owner
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭site_owner


    Baron de Charlus wrote: »
    You never said there was ten people behind. And if people queued in the lane rather than on the left, they wouldn't risk being hit by a left turning vehicle.
    7 People in front,
    And about 10 People behind me -

    thats what the tweet says. so thats 18 bikes in total. all to the left of traffic.


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    #17
    site_owner
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭site_owner


    Deleted User wrote: »
    There's no way in hell any car should attempt a left turn with such a long line of cyclists there. They'd only attempt it if there was a big gap between cyclists, which shouldn't really occur, but if it did then there's only room for one car to make it through anyway.

    do you cycle in dublin city? i reckon a car will try to nose through a group like that more times than not. i certanly dont want to be the one to find out. just take a look in the near miss thread for left hooks


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    #18
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    In this instance where they're all clearly in a cycle lane, I see no inherent issue in queuing rather than bunching at the front or joining the traffic queue.

    My experience of queues like this is that people are far less likely to shoal if there's a big queue. Which can only be a good thing.

    Be interested to know what that lead car did though. He's indicating left and has shifted a bit left. Did he wait like he's supposed to, or did he push in and force the bikes to let him through?


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    #19
    site_owner
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭site_owner


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Nothing pisses me off more than having the same slow, fat fecker on a banger squeezing in front of you at the lights, only to hamper your progress as it's unsafe to pass him until there's a break in traffic. This means that when you do finally make it past him, you're caught at the next lights and the whole sequence repeats itself.

    :mad:

    i hope you arent implying i'm slow :eek:


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    #20
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭buffalo


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    Advanced Stop Line. Routinely, and often deliberately, ignored by motorists.
    site_owner wrote: »
    its not in red there, but the section ahead of the cars

    There's no ASL box at that junction. If you go ahead of the cars, you're breaking the light. As the Baron says, if you don't feel safe in the queue, take the lane instead.

    I'd be happy enough in that queue myself, I'm not sure what the problem is. If a car is indicating left, wait behind. If they don't indicate and they turn left, apply brakes and castigate if possible. If a truck pulls up alongside, let them go on ahead out of your way.


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    #21
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭buffalo


    I think this line of cyclists might be the 'protective ring' which apparently enhances all of our safety, mentioned at https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=106874294#post106874294


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    #22
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,740 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Nothing pisses me off more than having the same slow, fat fecker on a banger squeezing in front of you at the lights, only to hamper your progress as it's unsafe to pass him until there's a break in traffic. This means that when you do finally make it past him, you're caught at the next lights and the whole sequence repeats itself.

    :mad:

    or worse, they go through the red light and you catch up to them after the junction. Repeat x 10.
    What's the rush? If you don't make it through, wait until they go green again.

    you might as well be in a car then.


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    #23
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    site_owner wrote: »
    do you cycle in dublin city? i reckon a car will try to nose through a group like that more times than not. i certanly dont want to be the one to find out. just take a look in the near miss thread for left hooks

    All the time. They will only attempt it if they are given enough of glimpse of a gap. Edge's corner in Fairview, coming out of town, is a prime example. When the lights are red, and there is no room* at the ASL to 'shoal', cyclists should be stopping short of the left hand turn. When they are green, they will only chance a turn if the nearest cyclist is unsteady, nervous, or not making enough progress.

    *There is always room at this set of lights, really, but it can get quite congested when there are plenty of busses around and people are a bit nervous. It is better to be in front of the bus rather than alongside it, but peple find that a bit counterintuitive. This spot is also a prime location for those fat feckers sneaking in front of the big queue of cycling traffic via the island.


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    #24
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,265 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Baron de Charlus wrote: »
    site_owner wrote: »
    including the 10 behind? and what happens when vehicles start turning left?

    You never said there was ten people behind. And if people queued in the lane rather than on the left, they wouldn't risk being hit by a left turning vehicle.
    It says that there’s another 10 behind in the links posted


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    #25
    site_owner
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭site_owner


    Deleted User wrote: »
    All the time. They will only attempt it if they are given enough of glimpse of a gap. Edge's corner in Fairview, coming out of town, is a prime example. When the lights are red, and there is no room* at the ASL to 'shoal', cyclists should be stopping short of the left hand turn. When they are green, they will only chance a turn if the nearest cyclist is unsteady, nervous, or not making enough progress.

    *There is always room at this set of lights, really, but it can get quite congested when there are plenty of busses around and people are a bit nervous. It is better to be in front of the bus rather than alongside it, but peple find that a bit counterintuitive. This spot is also a prime location for those fat feckers sneaking in front of the big queue of cycling traffic via the island.


    i cycle that route regualrly, and there is no way i would position myself anywhere other than out at the front of that line. where it says lana busa. i know its technically light jumping, but small that right curve is a killer of a pinch point and then you need to take the lane to get past the parked cars along the left. taxi man like to buzz past all the way to the coast if you give them an inch.

    even when moving at 35-40km i would get cars trying to make that turn

    most of the slower cyclists around there will stay on the path / crappy cycle lane thing on the park side, but i do get caught behind the occasional one. the narrowness of the bus lane means it fucntions as a wide cycle lane if I take it properly. overall its not a nice strech of cycling


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    #26
    Lambay island
    Registered Users Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭Lambay island


    site_owner wrote: »
    i cycle that route regualrly, and there is no way i would position myself anywhere other than out at the front of that line. where it says lana busa. i know its technically light jumping, but small that right curve is a killer of a pinch point and then you need to take the lane to get past the parked cars along the left. taxi man like to buzz past all the way to the coast if you give them an inch.

    even when moving at 35-40km i would get cars trying to make that turn

    most of the fat feckers around there will stay on the path / crappy cycle lane thing on the park side, but i do get caught behind the occasional one. the narrowness of the bus lane means it fucntions as a wide cycle lane if I take it properly. overall its not a nice strech of cycling

    Harsh, At least are doing something about it and commuting by bike rather than clogging up things more in a car


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    #27
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    site_owner wrote: »
    i cycle that route regualrly, and there is no way i would position myself anywhere other than out at the front of that line. where it says lana busa. i know its technically light jumping

    I agree, if you are late getting to the lights for some reason though, there's not always room to get up front. Particularly if there are a couple of busses idling there.
    site_owner wrote: »
    even when moving at 35-40km i would get cars trying to make that turn.........the narrowness of the bus lane means it fucntions as a wide cycle lane if I take it properly. overall its not a nice strech of cycling

    I definitely agree, you need your wits about you at that spot. Between the cars parked on the left outside the shops who open doors, people taking that first left after the lights and cutting across three lanes, double parking with the hazards on up beside the Tesco and ignorant pricks trying to squeeze out and turn right from the cul de sac just before the footbridge....its a wonder there aren't more serious accidents there daily.


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    #28
    Diemos
    Registered Users Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭Diemos


    I hate shoalers, they are completely selfish, if you were in a car, bus, christ, using a shopping trolley, you would never push past people who are already queuing, why would you think it is ok to do it on a bike?

    As for the arguement of I'm fast.....that's grand but it normalises it, and slow ****ers copy your actions.

    It's kind of difficult to ask other road users to be more conscientious to cyclists when we seem unable to be conscientious to each other.


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    #29
    Diemos
    Registered Users Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭Diemos


    site_owner wrote: »
    do you cycle in dublin city? i reckon a car will try to nose through a group like that more times than not. i certanly dont want to be the one to find out. just take a look in the near miss thread for left hooks

    I cycle through town on my commute and from a red light most cars are actually observent, especially if there is a queue of bikes on their left, but there are always morons.

    But as a cyclist you always have to assume that drivers are morons, just because you are in the right does not mean that you won't get hurt. be ready to stop and watch what other road users are up to, just like you would in any other vehicle.


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    #30
    site_owner
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭site_owner


    Lambay island wrote: »
    Harsh, At least are doing something about it and commuting by bike rather than clogging up things more in a car

    fair point and edited. in my defense i was using the term the other guy was using, but its inappropriate and no excuse.


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    #31
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,269 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Diemos wrote: »
    I hate shoalers, they are completely selfish, if you were in a car, bus, christ, using a shopping trolley, you would never push past people who are already queuing, why would you think it is ok to do it on a bike?
    It's obviously a while since you've commuted by car in the city - it's routine for some to push in to right turn lanes at the head of the queue, and isn't that what all the bus lane cars are essentially doing?


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