queuing at lights

Diemos

Macy0161 wrote: »

It's obviously a while since you've commuted by car in the city - it's routine for some to push in to right turn lanes at the head of the queue, and isn't that what all the bus lane cars are essentially doing?

Care to make any other sweeping (and wildly inaccurate) observations? :rolleyes:

Yes, there are ignorant motorist, but just because they are ignorant does not give anyone on a bike the right to be ignorant.

Macy0161

Diemos wrote: »

Care to make any other sweeping (and wildly inaccurate) observations? :rolleyes:

Yes, there are ignorant motorist, but just because they are ignorant does not give anyone on a bike the right to be ignorant.

No, but we don't need another road issue demonised as only a cycling issue, in the same way red light jumping or bicycles on the pavement are.

Most bad behaviours aren't tied to particular modes of transport, they're tied to people.

ted1

Diemos wrote: »

Macy0161 wrote: »

It's obviously a while since you've commuted by car in the city - it's routine for some to push in to right turn lanes at the head of the queue, and isn't that what all the bus lane cars are essentially doing?

Care to make any other sweeping (and wildly inaccurate) observations? :rolleyes:

Yes, there are ignorant motorist, but just because they are ignorant does not give anyone on a bike the right to be ignorant.

Are you calling cyclists who move ahead of slower cyclists ignorant ?

tomasrojo

Mark Treasure wrote something about cyclists queuing a while ago.

I don't always agree with him (frequently don't, but mostly about emphasis on risk), but for what it's worth:

The most efficient behaviour while waiting at lights is, actually, to double up, even if this appears to involve ‘queue jumping’. It’s standard practice that you will see at any Dutch junction with separate cycling infrastructure.

https://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/2016/10/12/doubling-up/

I assume this applies to cycling infrastructure that can accommodate two lines.

Diemos

ted1 wrote: »

Are you calling cyclists who move ahead of slower cyclists ignorant ?

No, in fact, I myself have overtaken a few slow cyclists in my time when it was safe to do so.

Ray Bloody Purchase

What is the etiquette with undertaking? It always gets on my tits. Particularly if i'm turning right and someone shoots up on my inside. It means that they're pushing me out into the centre.

Moflojo

I just want to point out how amazing it is that we're now having discussions about people on bikes queuing at junctions.

10 years ago it would have been rare enough, even on sunny days, to meet more than 2 or 3 other cyclists at a junction on your commute. Now it's common to see 20+ at every junction, in all weather, on the major commuter routes.

bikedude

Wait in the queue behind the last person, if you are faster then everyone you will overtake then soon enough.

If is a bottle neck, position yourself in the middle of the lane at the correct time and help the people that are not as savvy as you to be safer/ learn how to do it.

Don’t be that person that goes to the front because you assume you are faster than everyone that is waiting in line.

Wishbone Ash

Is it just me or does anyone else think the image in the opening post looks very staged - all cyclists in a neat line, all have left foot down, all wearing helmets and hi viz, cars in a neat line leaving the cycle track free. It's certainly not what I usually experience at busy junctions.

ted1

Now that you say it. I’m definitely a right foot down guy. It would be unusual to have so many lefties

brianomc

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Is it just me or does anyone else think the image in the opening post looks very staged - all cyclists in a neat line, all have left foot down, all wearing helmets and hi viz, cars in a neat line leaving the cycle track free. It's certainly not what I usually experience at busy junctions.

I know what you mean but I swear I saw around 20 all lined up at Wexford Street today, from the lights back to Bunsen. No shoaling, nobody up on the footpath, shocking(ly good) behaviour.

And a car did need to turn left.....it waited patiently for the last cyclist to pass, and nobody beeped at them either. This gets less believable the more I write. But I swear it happened.

Mix of bikes too, lycra-wearing roadies, hybrids, bso-s, even dublin bikes ffs, dublin bikes queueing :eek::D

tomasrojo

Moflojo wrote: »

I just want to point out how amazing it is that we're now having discussions about people on bikes queuing at junctions.

10 years ago it would have been rare enough, even on sunny days, to meet more than 2 or 3 other cyclists at a junction on your commute. Now it's common to see 20+ at every junction, in all weather, on the major commuter routes.

This must be suppressed.

threetrees

ted1 wrote: »

Now that you say it. I’m definitely a right foot down guy. It would be unusual to have so many lefties

Left foot down on the path though, more likely using the path height/step.

Arcade_Tryer

seamus wrote: »

My experience of queues like this is that people are far less likely to shoal if there's a big queue. Which can only be a good thing.

Sometimes shoaling is the safest option. Case in point this morning. Pulling out at Gardiner Street to circle around to the quays and there was a queue of cyclists stretched along the white line separating the lanes going towards the quays and back around by Connolly respectively. For a cyclist to join that queue from Gardiner Street would have meant cycling the wrong way down a potentially moving lane with oncoming traffic. Or else remaining stationery in said lane. Absurd. Shoaling saved a potentially serious situation from transpiring.

Kaisr Sose

Ray Bloody Purchase wrote: »

What is the etiquette with undertaking? It always gets on my tits. Particularly if i'm turning right and someone shoots up on my inside. It means that they're pushing me out into the centre.

I was reading through the thread thinking undertaking is the elephant in the room. It’s dangerous and it pissws me off. Even more when they pass a red light in the process!

Vel

So am I wrong if I was one of the bikes further back and a car ahead is waiting to turn left, that I would either hang back and allow them to turn or pull out and go around them on the right?

Diemos

Vel wrote: »

So am I wrong if I was one of the bikes further back and a car ahead is waiting to turn left, that I would either hang back and allow them to turn or pull out and go around them on the right?

If I'm in a queue where I am level with or behind said car, which is indicating, I generally watch the car and let the car dictate. most cars will wait, some push through.
Just because I have right of way does not mean I can't get hurt, if it's a truck or a bus, I just stay well behind it.

axer

Vel wrote: »

So am I wrong if I was one of the bikes further back and a car ahead is waiting to turn left, that I would either hang back and allow them to turn or pull out and go around them on the right?

By law you must not undertake (overtake on the left) any vehicle that is likely to start turning before you can fully undertake it. So yes, you wait until they have completed their turn or overtake on the right. A bike track as in the OP does not change this law as it is not a traffic lane.

ted1

axer wrote: »

By law you must not undertake (overtake on the left) any vehicle that is likely to start turning before you can fully undertake it. So yes, you wait until they have completed their turn or overtake on the right. A bike track as in the OP does not change this law as it is not a traffic lane.

cyclists are permitted to undertake (on left) a stationary row of motor vehicles: [S.I. No. 332/2012 - Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2012]

(b) “A pedal cyclist may overtake on the left where vehicles to the pedal cyclist’s right are stationary or are moving more slowly than the overtaking pedal cycle, except where the vehicle to be overtaken—

(i) has signalled an intention to turn to the left and there is a reasonable expectation that the vehicle in which the driver has signalled an intention to turn to the left will execute a movement to the left before the cycle overtakes the vehicle,

(ii) is stationary for the purposes of permitting a passenger or passengers to alight or board the vehicle, or

(iii) is stationary for the purposes of loading or unloading.”

axer

ted1 wrote: »

cyclists are permitted to undertake (on left) a stationary row of motor vehicles: [S.I. No. 332/2012 - Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2012]

(b) “A pedal cyclist may overtake on the left where vehicles to the pedal cyclist’s right are stationary or are moving more slowly than the overtaking pedal cycle, except where the vehicle to be overtaken—

(i) has signalled an intention to turn to the left and there is a reasonable expectation that the vehicle in which the driver has signalled an intention to turn to the left will execute a movement to the left before the cycle overtakes the vehicle,

(ii) is stationary for the purposes of permitting a passenger or passengers to alight or board the vehicle, or

(iii) is stationary for the purposes of loading or unloading.”

Yes, exactly

Wishbone Ash

Diemos wrote: »

I hate shoalers, they are completely selfish, if you were in a car, bus, christ, using a shopping trolley, you would never push past people who are already queuing, why would you think it is ok to do it on a bike?

As for the arguement of I'm fast.....that's grand but it normalises it, and slow ****ers copy your actions.

It's kind of difficult to ask other road users to be more conscientious to cyclists when we seem unable to be conscientious to each other.

I mentioned it somewhere here before but the last time I tackled a 'shoaler' (in a battered MTB, who had plonked himself in front of me about six times in a row) and tried to explain to him that, as I was much faster, it made more sense for him to wait behind, I got this response (in broken English):

"Why you say you faster when I still in front"

What do you say to that!

flatface

I never never shoal. I would not risk an overtake of shame.
Always take off behind other cyclists, get the measure of their pace and then blast past looking as relaxed as possible. Oh the pleasure. And every light they just come back for more!