Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

wrangler wrote: »

Is there room for imrovement in beef/lamb price, It's a luxury meat now and cannot compete with pork and chickhen.
Anytime I get a chance to go through ICM I cannot help but admire the effort they make to market our lamb, the different products they make and the amount of investment in further processing the lamb

The price will always be a supply and demand problem same with any industry. But fair play on grading and fat score can take 50 euro off the price of a carcass no matter what the base price is. We will always be caught on price. But if we got fair play in the factories that way and could somehow get rid of the factory feedlots then we would have at least fair play on the price front.

memorystick wrote: »

Also, I knew that the IFA were/are useless but I didn't that they can be as bad as they are currently are.

Explain?

Here is another loads of Codswallop from some old fart who si more than likly 10 years behind the game.

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/beef/factories-must-pay-more-for-top-grades-insists-expert-37545274.html


He is on about lean meat yield and the grid. In the grid he is saying that the difference between U grade and O garde cattle is 29c/kg. Now on the grid the gaps are if cattle are QA are

O- to U- is 54c/kg
O= to U= is 42c/kg
O+ to U+ is 42c/kg.

The only reason the difference may be lower than the grid is U grade cattle are out of spec and you do not have the equal volumes in the higher parts of the U grade. He is comparing Apples and Oranges. It really fighten's me the way some lads are carrying on at present with plans to try totally f@@k up the half profitable part of the beef industry to try to say a part that no matter what happens will decline anyway

Panch18 wrote: »

Sucklers are a totally inefficient form of farming, anything that needs a hectare to bring a calf to 9 months of age can’t be anything but inefficient

The problem that dairy has is that it started to go down the jersey route - if teagasc had the foresight to push British friesan as the breed to base the grass based milk production around then we could have had top class dairy and a calf that is more than good enough for beef farmers to work with

I agree with the first part about sucklers. Not only that most lads on about suckler have no clue about figures. If the grid gap went from 6-10c/kg the difference on suckler steers would be immaterial and if a 380 kg weight limit came in suckler farmers would lose more than they gained. A 30c/kg price rise is 120 euro on a 400kg animals it will not make unprofitable system sustainable. Unless we go 50c/kg above the highest beef price in Europe suckler are unsustainable

In the seventies in Kerry there was a huge amount of hill sheep. In the 80's and 90's a lot of these were replaced with suckler cows. In a lot of area's where sucklers are now hill sheep may be more sustainable to draw payments.

However I am not totally convinced about the Jersey issue. It is over stated as an issue. First off it si only a 50% cross at most and then lads cross back. More of an issue is ICBF have not much data on beef prodgnery from dairy sires. We need more data to encourage dairy farmers to use the right beef sires that will produce easy calving bulls who's prodgney will have a high growth rate. This can be carried out by genetic testing of these bulls to cull low growth rate, poor terminal weight ( not really an issue if you have a high growth rate) and hard calving bulls and long gestation bulls

In the US and Canada there is a move to hybrid bulls that are 50% AA or HE and 50% Continental breeding with the emphais on low birth weights and high growth rates. In Ireland we need to carry out similar evaluation on beef sires there would be no need of hybrid breeding in bulls but the selection of bulls accross breeds for the above traits

yewtree wrote: »

I went to one of the meetings in the west last week. massive crowd in fairness and definitely the angriest meeting I have been at. The cause of the angry from what I could see where the beef price, factories, icbf, teagasc and any dairy farmer that expanded with a particularly dislike for any one that was using jersey blood.
Listening to the speakers the whole idea is to increase the value of suckler progeny and devalue the animal from the dairy herd.
It will be interesting to see will they achieve anything when push comes to achieve

The last time we went to the Ploughing Championships (2016) I noted that when visiting the Bord Bia stand they were promoting Friesian carcasses as the most suitable for the export trade - there was a fine FR bullock on the stand. I've previously posted about it.

Anyway the Irish dairy herd has increased substantially since the abolition of quotas and we are now heading to a critical mass vis a vie livestock per ha & nitrates regulations. A substantial number of Irish dairy herds have been claiming degoration for years.

memorystick wrote: »

I went to the Beef Plan meeting last night. I didn't realize that there was so much regulation re exports and slaughter hall. Also, I knew that the IFA were/are useless but I didn't that they can be as bad as they are currently are. I wasn't impressed with all the talk about producer group. Every farmer is different. Here's to a price rise of some nature.

I suppose I've seen it all before when ICSA reformed, the emotion and the enthusiasm, you think it's all going to change,
It's hard not to be cynical.....
.After all there's already three organisations in an effort for better beef prices....if these new guys are the holy grail where have they been up to now, where were they in 2013 when there was a protest in the middle of Ireland beside ratheniska in Tullamore....about twenty five turned up, at least two were sheep farmers, rest were mostly dairy farmers or from Farm Centre.
It's hard not to be cynical
Producer groups have a place and they work, but they take work and not many will put in that work. I've been selling lambs through a group for 30 - 40 years so can't give it any thing but praise

gerryirl wrote: »

to put this into reality. I bought a aax , the x was a friesian cow off the brother in law who's dairying. He was a big tank of a thing. I killed him a 22 months and got 4.37 a kilo. 4.10 base, 12 cent Bord Bia and 15 cent for AA

Flipside. I killed 2 top quality lim with a BB cross Id say. u= both of them. 3.70 base. 12 cent and 18 cent on the grid.

Timing was everything. I just got lucky with the aax lad. it was the best price per kilo I got this year and i had a good few U's

That is immaterial to average UvO prices as all cattle are killed all year around which I think the ex teagasc advisor was talking about.

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

A miserly tiny mention on page 9 of this weeks journal. It would make you wonder, wouldn't it?

It would indeed.

Cut and pasted from the Beef Plan WhatsApp group;

Meat Industry Ireland chief reacts to Beef Plan Group tonight Thursday 22 of December on FarmLand at 8:00pm

So go onto the website and watch the video live on your phone or computer

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/agriland-launches-farmland/

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Not really she is promoting IFA and half dismissing the Beefplan movement. At the end she is on about Micheal Drennan brain fart that will see lower prices for 70%+ of the beef that is produced.

I'm obviously interpreting the article differently to you :

"The IFA has long seen itself as having the monopoly on good ideas and has been slow to support those of others, no matter how worthwhile they may be, for fear that it would be seen as a sign of weakness."

While the IFA has called for a premium for suckler stock, it is not pushing hard for a reform of the QA grid.
I agree that the Micheal Dreannan piece is a brain fart and ain't goin to happen.

Willfarman wrote: »

The meat industry is thinks it’s a fine idea. Cormac healy says” they are open to it”. Can’t seem too enthusiastic or the gombeen farmers might try and do the sums!

Until a comparative figure to Healy is put front and centre of the Beef Plan we are at nothing. We need a representative that will be able to go toe to toe in interview situations and not be in a stuttering mess when push comes to shove. Healy is well versed and seeing Ranglers crowd are so greased up and are another cog in the MII wheel we have nowhere to turn bar the beef plan. At the moment the beef plan seems very rudderless, you could for once almost say too many Indians and not enough chiefs! Meetings seem to be all bluster with great soundbites and fighting talk. Well that same talk is very cheap and passion and our gra for farming won't cut it with the big boys. We will be swatted away like flies. It is the greatest con job of all time what is happening. Yes the kill is high but the tonnage of beef wouldnt be within an asses roar of heavier suckler bred or dare i say it british fresian crossed stock of even 5 years ago. There has to be a part time farmer somewhere who has a highend job that requires a lot of communication and dealing with big contracts that would able to sit in on an interview with the likes of Healy and turn the screw the other way for a change.

Gort Mart meeting on next Tuesday 4th. It's a bit of a spin for me but I want to support it all the same. My fear though is it will be just a lot of hot air and all negativity. I tend to stay away from all farm politics but I like the energy of this one. If only one good thing comes out of it, it will be worth it.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Not really she is promoting IFA and half dismissing the Beefplan movement. At the end she is on about Micheal Drennan brain fart that will see lower prices for 70%+ of the beef that is produced.

That's the reason that no one is looking to review the grid.....Os are too dear at the mo. Only review can be reduce the price of Os
If you wanted to be fair to producers of good cattle the grid should be reviewed, That grid was probably based on a different price at the time...the increments should be a percentage to the base price,

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Apologies if this has been asked already but is the Beef Plan Movement going to do anything before it gets its magic number of 40,000 members? Or is it a case of get the numbers first, then start agitating?

I'm in the WhatsApp group for my county and I'm getting a bit fed up of being bombarded with "fighting talk" and whinging from the organisers that farmers need to do more work for the Movement by pestering their neighbours to get involved.

Apart from the various meetings, has anyone from the Movement met with processors? Have they spoken to retailers? Have they analysed the wider consumer trends on food consumption?

I'm all for fighting and getting a fair price. But with everyone's time so scarce these days we need to see the bigger picture and pick the right battles. Processors are part of the problem, but we've already lost if we think getting an extra few cent/kg will make the good 'ol days return.

They'll have to handle the Comp authority before I'd have anything to do with them. Last fines started at €500000 and the last I heard they were arresting individual farmers when they couldn't get an organisation to hang it on.
Wonder what the implications of having those messages on your phone are

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Apologies if this has been asked already but is the Beef Plan Movement going to do anything before it gets its magic number of 40,000 members? Or is it a case of get the numbers first, then start agitating?

I'm in the WhatsApp group for my county and I'm getting a bit fed up of being bombarded with "fighting talk" and whinging from the organisers that farmers need to do more work for the Movement by pestering their neighbours to get involved.

Apart from the various meetings, has anyone from the Movement met with processors? Have they spoken to retailers? Have they analysed the wider consumer trends on food consumption?

I'm all for fighting and getting a fair price. But with everyone's time so scarce these days we need to see the bigger picture and pick the right battles. Processors are part of the problem, but we've already lost if we think getting an extra few cent/kg will make the good 'ol days return.

I have to agree with you. I was in the initial what’s app group and left for the reasons you describe.
What you say about the analysis of consumer demand is 100% correct. We are on the point of losing our best customer through brexit and the meat shelves and butchers counter in supermarkets seems to be getting smaller every 6 months. I think we have to just face up to the fact that beef is a high value low margin luxury product. Our days producing it are numbered. By the way I would have fought against what I have just said a year or two ago

gerryirl wrote: »

I can see where your coming from about the message but taking 3.70 a kilo for beef is meaningless too so do we keep doing the same thing or try something. I'd rather fail trying thnt not trying at all

The one area I can see the Beef Plan running into bother is the lads that kill high numbers. They get a different price to joe bloggs and people like myself that kill insignificant numbers each year. Will they want to rock the boat when the time comes if they have 50 or a 100 head of cattle to go and get a text not to send them ?

TBH how would you expect someone with 50 or 100 head of factory fit cattle to hold them for a number of days when each day is going to cost them €3.50+ per head/day. I'm not talking about lads who are feeding cattle on contract for the factories but genuine finishers who are trying to make a living.

Base price wrote: »

TBH how would you expect someone with 50 or 100 head of factory fit cattle to hold them for a number of days when each day is going to cost them €3.50+ per head/day. I'm not talking about lads who are feeding cattle on contract for the factories but genuine finishers who are trying to make a living.

Are you finally seeing the light, there is no practical way to put pressure on processors to increase prices. Totally immature and unreasonable to expect anyone come up with a solution when you're not prepared to support any effort.
You've finally highlighted the c..p that I'm dealing with for the last 30 years from beef farmers
In 2001 We held back cattle for three weeks to get a price and the farmers only let it hold for a few weeks when they started throwing cattle at the factories again.
I hope that the Beef plan movement take warning from your post because there's a lot more like you