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organic farming

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    #272
    adne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭adne


    Water John wrote: »
    Possibly 2 years. One way to possibly be sure of getting in then is, to convert and join IOA or Organic Trust. You'll miss out on the conversion payments and go straight to the base organic payment.
    Might not work for you, but it's my plan.

    What's the organic conversion payments worth? How much it cost to be accepted into IOA or organic trust?


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    #273
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,153 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Conversion €220/ha
    Full status €170/Ha

    My annual sub is €540 to IOA.

    I saw his seed harvesting. A bit painful I thought. Don't think I want to go that far. If I could get a seed mix and stitch it in, I'll go that way.


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    #274
    tractorporn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    adne wrote: »
    What's the organic conversion payments worth? How much it cost to be accepted into IOA or organic trust?

    Conversion payments are 220/ha which drops to 170/ha after the two years are done. The fees are area based so I depends on how much land you have certified my initial fee was 399 and my licence fee is 460


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    #275
    adne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭adne


    Water John wrote: »
    Conversion €220/ha
    Full status €170/Ha

    My annual sub is €540 to IOA.

    I saw his seed harvesting. A bit painful I thought. Don't think I want to go that far. If I could get a seed mix and stitch it in, I'll go that way.

    It's not great money so when consider additional income on say 30 ha will only be around 5k but there will be additional costs in terms of annual membership. Meal costs etc


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    #276
    endainoz
    Registered Users Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭endainoz


    adne wrote: »
    It's not great money so when consider additional income on say 30 ha will only be around 5k but there will be additional costs in terms of annual membership. Meal costs etc

    I won't be buying much meal as it's too expensive compared to conventional meal. There is also an extra cost for bedding animals and the added labour of cleaning out sheds.

    But you have to factor in no bills for chemical fert, not spending as much on doses and of course getting a better price selling into the organic market, it's definitely worth it for me.


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    #277
    adne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭adne


    endainoz wrote: »
    I won't be buying much meal as it's too expensive compared to conventional meal. There is also an extra cost for bedding animals and the added labour of cleaning out sheds.

    But you have to factor in no bills for chemical fert, not spending as much on doses and of course getting a better price selling into the organic market, it's definitely worth it for me.

    How are animals treated for fluke worms and lice?


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    #278
    endainoz
    Registered Users Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭endainoz


    adne wrote: »
    How are animals treated for fluke worms and lice?

    Essentially, they aren't. It's all about preventative care, as part of a conversion application, you are required to do a herd health plan with your vet.

    Controlling worms is easy, once you understand the life cycle of a worm and employ a strict grazing plan, using a paddock system, leaving a grazed field idle for 25 days to ensure all worms die. The months of June/July/August are peak times for work growth, too many people dose at the wrong times of the year and wonder why animals are becoming more resistant to it.

    With my health plan I am allowed to vaccinate for blackleg as it's known in the area.

    Fluke prevention is mostly avoiding wet areas but in fairness my land is fairly dry so it's not normally an issue for me. Lice prevention involves keeping a reasonably clean shed.

    It should also be noted that if you do ever have a sick animal, you can treat them with whatever is needed from a vet. You just need something signed by the vet explaining why the animal needed it.


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    #279
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,153 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    You can use a natural product called, diatomaceous earth, for liver fluke. doesn't do other worms.
    If you are finishing cattle you may need red clover/grass mix silage or some do crimped crops. The crimped crop gives both the straw and a finishing ration.
    I have weanlings on straw and they feed on the slats. Very little work in it. Bedding once/twice a week and not a lot of straw.


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    #280
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,075 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    endainoz wrote: »
    Essentially, they aren't. It's all about preventative care, as part of a conversion application, you are required to do a herd health plan with your vet.

    Controlling worms is easy, once you understand the life cycle of a worm and employ a strict grazing plan, using a paddock system, leaving a grazed field idle for 25 days to ensure all worms die. The months of June/July/August are peak times for work growth, too many people dose at the wrong times of the year and wonder why animals are becoming more resistant to it.

    With my health plan I am allowed to vaccinate for blackleg as it's known in the area.

    Fluke prevention is mostly avoiding wet areas but in fairness my land is fairly dry so it's not normally an issue for me. Lice prevention involves keeping a reasonably clean shed.

    It should also be noted that if you do ever have a sick animal, you can treat them with whatever is needed from a vet. You just need something signed by the vet explaining why the animal needed it.

    aren't all withdrawal times for doses/medicines majorly extended


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    #281
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,153 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Usually double, but that isn't a major imposition. However if an animal is treated twice with antibiotics, that animal loses it's organic status.


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    #282
    endainoz
    Registered Users Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭endainoz


    Have also started using seaweed meal as a pre calfer, cows are mad for it.


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    #283
    50HX
    Registered Users Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭50HX


    endainoz wrote: »
    Have also started using seaweed meal as a pre calfer, cows are mad for it.

    Where are you sourcing the seaweed meal


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    #284
    Earnshaw
    Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭Earnshaw


    If you've given antibiotics that were prescribed by a vet in an viral outbreak of pneumonia, then what type of documentation do you need from the vet?


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    #285
    endainoz
    Registered Users Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭endainoz


    Has anybody read this premium article from farming independent?

    https://m.independent.ie/business/farming/comment/darragh-mccullough-live-by-the-sward-mixing-it-up-can-save-you-money-and-help-the-environment-39160940.html

    Going by the sub headline it looks like Darragh McCullough was influenced in by big way at Bio Farm!


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    #286
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,153 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    I was at that event and he seemed genuinely open minded to the alt options being proposed. Multi species sward was probably a first step for anyone not totally taken in by the singular view of the Dept, Teagasc and Industry.
    Sorry, don't have access to the article.


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    #287
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,431 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Water John wrote: »
    I was at that event and he seemed genuinely open minded to the alt options being proposed. Multi species sward was probably a first step for anyone not totally taken in by the singular view of the Dept, Teagasc and Industry.
    Sorry, don't have access to the article.

    I always thought the dm figures for single species of rye grass in a given year were good for that specific year and that specific farm ,
    We get a variety of weather conditions ,so really need a mix of forage that performs over 10 or 20 years , no good having something that doesn't do well in the dry ,if you have a drought ... Or a variety that produces vast volumes only in summer, especially if youve had a long winter and cold spring ...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #288
    Panch18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭Panch18


    What kind of money are Glenisk paying for milk in both winter and summer? Will they take as much as you can produce?

    Any other processor in the market for organic milk?


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    #289
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,153 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    TMK Glenisk aren't great payers. The Little Milk Co would be one. I think a few of the liquid milk processors run an organic line, Arrabawn and Aurivo maybe.
    Some producers have to do some home sales so that they can rise their av price per litre.


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    #290
    Panch18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭Panch18


    Water John wrote: »
    TMK Glenisk aren't great payers. The Little Milk Co would be one. I think a few of the liquid milk processors run an organic line, Arrabawn and Aurivo maybe.
    Some producers have to do some home sales so that they can rise their av price per litre.

    Is there really a market there then for dairy farmers if they have to go selling themselves?


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    #291
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,153 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    As often with niche, structure is the problem. I eat some organic products. One that I use is cheddar but the only organic cheddar I know of comes in from the UK. It is very nice and I buy it in Lidl.


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    #292
    tractorporn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    Panch18 wrote: »
    Is there really a market there then for dairy farmers if they have to go selling themselves?

    A few lads are selling themselves but that is just a side line and it's only like 4/5 of them. Biggest taker of milk is Glenisk, followed closely by Aurivo, Arrabawn all of which up until recently were offering contracts for organic milk. The little milk company is a co op of 10 farmers and as far as I can make out is a closed shop


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    #293
    endainoz
    Registered Users Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭endainoz


    Water John wrote: »
    I was at that event and he seemed genuinely open minded to the alt options being proposed. Multi species sward was probably a first step for anyone not totally taken in by the singular view of the Dept, Teagasc and Industry.
    Sorry, don't have access to the article.

    Did you look any further into stitching the ground to establish a multi species award? I suppose it might be worth it just for an experiment in a small area


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    #294
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,153 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    I did over sow oats with a multi grass and clover mix last year. It's not very good looking atm, lot of plantain. Will be able to judge it better after the first cut.
    The permanent grass and meadow areas I haven't tackled yet.


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    #295
    endainoz
    Registered Users Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭endainoz


    Was the the "rejuvination mix" from western seeds by any chance? Thinking of getting a few bags of it.


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    #296
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,153 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Fruit Hill Farm in West Cork. Mix 2.3 Grass/Red Clover.
    Not sure how I will upgrade old pastures. I'm inclined, at some stage to redden it a bit and scatter seed, light harrow and roll. Neighbour used only a leveller. Used a number of runs and it was a success. Didn't kill off all the old grass but upgraded it with the new grass. I'd probably go later in the year, when the soil is warm and give the white clover , the best chance.


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    #297
    endainoz
    Registered Users Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭endainoz


    Here is a screenshot of the Darragh McCullough article for anyone who's interested.


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    #298
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,153 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Was searching for the right type of harrow/seeder to rejuvenate old ground. the Rakemann 3000 seemed suitable. Then came across this old Boards thread, where Reggie had NHG had bought it. Looks the business
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin//showthread.php?t=2057178322&page=2


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    #299
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,628 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    What are organic farmers using for silage?
    I'm not sure whether to use a mix of
    Aston crusader, Italian rye 9kg
    barblanco white clover 1kg
    Milvus red clover 4kg

    or

    Abergain tetraploid 5kg
    Aberchoice 4kg
    Drumbo 2kg
    Milvus red clover 2kg

    I've had a red clover + Italian mix before, the red clover lasted 4 years, the rye grass is still there. But I left it go to seed in 2018 (drought) and only cut it once late in that year.

    Will the high performance abers in the 2nd mix last with the red clover nitrogen only?
    My plan is to stitch white clover into the second mix in year 3 after the red clover has died out and leave it as permanent grass for another 6/7 years.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



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    #300
    Gawddawggonnit
    Registered Users Posts: 3,261 ✭✭✭Gawddawggonnit


    endainoz wrote: »
    Here is a screenshot of the Darragh McCullough article for anyone who's interested.

    Lol.
    The dairy jihadis like to call him a failed farmer, click baiter, headline seeker, gob****e etc...however this article may be lacking in depth, but it makes up for it with fact.

    The last paragraph is absolutely shocking. People should resign or be fired without their golden pension. Jesus wept.


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    #301
    Gawddawggonnit
    Registered Users Posts: 3,261 ✭✭✭Gawddawggonnit


    blue5000 wrote: »
    What are organic farmers using for silage?
    I'm not sure whether to use a mix of
    Aston crusader, Italian rye 9kg
    barblanco white clover 1kg
    Milvus red clover 4kg

    or

    Abergain tetraploid 5kg
    Aberchoice 4kg
    Drumbo 2kg
    Milvus red clover 2kg

    I've had a red clover + Italian mix before, the red clover lasted 4 years, the rye grass is still there. But I left it go to seed in 2018 (drought) and only cut it once late in that year.

    Will the high performance abers in the 2nd mix last with the red clover nitrogen only?
    My plan is to stitch white clover into the second mix in year 3 after the red clover has died out and leave it as permanent grass for another 6/7 years.

    I didn’t know you were organic...when did you change over?


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