Border Poll discussion

breatheme · 03-09-2018 3:32pm

I don't reckon that would stop them.

Charles Babbage · 03-09-2018 9:59pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Other than in the GAA, counties aren't even recognised in the North anymore.

yes they are, the used both in postal addresses and allocation of car number plates.

Charles Babbage · 03-09-2018 10:24pm

Poll today showing 17-21% swing caused by Brexit

Now special status and other measures may greatly reduce this, but without that everything is changed utterly.

Q6 if the UK leaves the EU. Not sure what the gender difference is about.

||Gender|||Age Group||
|Total/%|Female|Male|18-24 Years|25-44 Years|45-64 Years|65+ Years
Unweighted|1199|306|893|47|446|540|166
Weighted|993|505|488|100|342|337|213
I would vote for a United Ireland outside of the UK|519|306|213|76|222|136|86
I would vote for a United Ireland outside of the UK %|52%|61%|44%|75%|65%|40%|40%
I would vote for Northern Ireland to remain part of the UK|392|154|238|21|86|166|118
I would vote for Northern Ireland to remain part of the UK %|39%|30%|49%|21%|25%|49%|56%
Don’t Know/Not Sure|70|42|28|3|33|29|4
Don’t Know/Not Sure %|7%|8%|6%|3%|10%|9%|2%
I would not vote|9|0|9|0|1|3|5
I would not vote %|1%|0%|2%|0%|0%|1%|2%
Other|3|3|0|0|0|3|0
Other %|0%|1%|0%|0%|0%|1%|0%

Infernum · 04-09-2018 7:18am

Yeah, that recent poll basically states that a border poll would be a landslide in favour of a United Ireland (52% In Favour-39% Against) if/when the UK exits the EU. The percentage of those in support of a united Ireland rises to 56% if a hard border is imposed if I remember correctly.

However, if the UK remains within the EU the support for a united Ireland drastically decreases, 40% In favour of unity against 60% in favour of remaining.

blanch152 · 04-09-2018 9:39am

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fin-admits-thousands-of-jobs-will-go-if-ireland-unites-37280245.html

I see Sinn Fein has its instructions out to its online supporters on how to deal with the united Ireland issue.

"The draft document entitled 'Irish Unity - An Activist's Guide' has a series of questions and answers under a heading 'How to have a conversation about Irish unity."

Yet Louise O'Reilly was on TV last night claiming that the SF presence online was organic.

The only thing the document is missing is the potential for a united Ireland to do its own trade deals and save €350m a week on the NHS.

Imreoir2 · 07-09-2018 11:05pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I do think the idea has merit. The proposition that there is just a binary choice - remaining in the UK or a united Ireland - is more than a little outdated in the current situation. There are many different options:

1. Remaining in the UK and a full part of Brexit
2. Remaining in the UK but having some special status within the EU
3. Independent but outside the EU
4. Independent but inside the EU
5. Joint sovereignty with London and Dublin and devolved powers but outside the EU
6. Joint sovereignty with London and Dublin and devolved powers inside the EU
7. Part of a United Ireland but a federal state within the EU
8. Part of a United Ireland single state within the EU
9. Part of a United Ireland that is in the EEA and the Commonwealth

There are more variations, including a greater devolution of power and changing the rules of Stormont.

Your claim that the binary choice between being part of the UK or part of Ireland is outdated is a little bizzare. It is exactly the choice as it exists today. This is the current arangement as set down in the GFA.

Options 1 and 2 are possible under the option of remaining in the UK, options 7, 8 and 9 are possible as part of joining Ireland (though option 9 is not going to happen as Ireland will not be leaving the EU). Options 3, 4, 5 and 6 are not on the table and are specifically ruled out by the GFA.

You might consider this "outdated", but it is exactly the choice available today.

blanch152 · 07-09-2018 11:21pm

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Your claim that the binary choice between being part of the UK or part of Ireland is outdated is a little bizzare. It is exactly the choice as it exists today. This is the current arangement as set down in the GFA.

Options 1 and 2 are possible under the option of remaining in the UK, options 7, 8 and 9 are possible as part of joining Ireland (though option 9 is not going to happen as Ireland will not be leaving the EU). Options 3, 4, 5 and 6 are not on the table and are specifically ruled out by the GFA.

You might consider this "outdated", but it is exactly the choice available today.

The Good Friday Agreement is 20 years old. It has lasted longer than the Treaty of Versailles.

However, we haven't had a border poll yet because there is no sign of the people of the North wanting one. Why shouldn't we consider if there are different options out there?

Imreoir2 · 07-09-2018 11:30pm

blanch152 wrote: »

The Good Friday Agreement is 20 years old. It has lasted longer than the Treaty of Versailles.

However, we haven't had a border poll yet because there is no sign of the people of the North wanting one. Why shouldn't we consider if there are different options out there?

Many reasons, the compleate lack of any interest in independence among the people of NI for one, the lack of any pathway to legally acheive independence is another. Independence for NI is not going to happen, ever, really, ever. I really can't stress this enough, its not going to happen. At all. Nope.

The Treaty of Versailles was repudiated by the Nazi's in the lead up to WWII, I don't think the current context is comparable to that. The GFA is 20 years old and just as relevant now as it was when it was signed. We are likely to see a border poll in the near future if current trends continue.

murphaph · 08-09-2018 7:16am

I tend to agree. Independence seems a very unlikely outcome for NI. It'll stay in a UK that pulled back from the Brexit brink or it'll end up voting to join the Republic in a post Brexit apocalypse where its standard of living has taken a severe blow.

Nitrogan · 08-09-2018 7:39am

An Independent NI as a transition entity for a few years is the only way a UI will happen peacefully imo.

FrancieBrady · 08-09-2018 10:13am

blanch152 wrote: »

The Good Friday Agreement is 20 years old. It has lasted longer than the Treaty of Versailles.

However, we haven't had a border poll yet because there is no sign of the people of the North wanting one. Why shouldn't we consider if there are different options out there?

The GFA works only if it is a process and it has ground to a destabilising halt over 10 or 12 years with a lot of things (including a border poll) that it should have achieved not achieved.

Real Rad · 09-09-2018 3:40pm

I reckon with Brexit, I should have enough saved by next October to buy NI.

Charles Babbage · 09-09-2018 7:46pm

murphaph wrote: »

I tend to agree. Independence seems a very unlikely outcome for NI. It'll stay in a UK that pulled back from the Brexit brink or it'll end up voting to join the Republic in a post Brexit apocalypse where its standard of living has taken a severe blow.

Quite. However, the exact exent of the post Brexit decline in living standards is not the only issue, such an apocalypse would imply utter contempt for NI by London and a lot of middle ground voters would not see the UK as a having a future when central government treats you in that way. There was a belief that in the Major/Blair period that London was trying, this now all seems to be gone. It is notable in each poll the increasing proportion of the pro EU middle ground who want a UI if the UK goes lunatic.

I expect them to do the bleedin' obvious though and secure whatever NI arrangements that are required and then have GB do a Canada deal or whatever suits them.

An Independent NI as a transition entity for a few years is the only way a UI will happen peacefully imo

.

Perhaps you should inform your opinion with reality.

the_syco · 09-09-2018 8:00pm

segarox wrote: »

what if the north was to vote to rejoin ireland but in name only; establish yourselves as a separate state with your own government, your own police force (technically you have that already; Stormont and the PSNI) and your own currency.

And who'd fund this sh|tshow? Currently NI is funded by RoI and the rest of the UK.

An Independent NI won't happen, as it can't fund itself.

VinLieger · 15-09-2018 9:24pm

New study claims we would see a drop in south in living stamdards of 15%

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/united-ireland-would-see-living-standards-in-republic-fall-by-15-1.3629748?mode=amp

If these facts were made clear to everyone i doubt we would see it pass here, the north needs to get their act together.

FrancieBrady · 15-09-2018 9:59pm

VinLieger wrote: »

New study claims we would see a drop in south in living stamdards of 15%

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/united-ireland-would-see-living-standards-in-republic-fall-by-15-1.3629748?mode=amp

If these facts were made clear to everyone i doubt we would see it pass here, the north needs to get their act together.

If it starts with the premise that 11 or 12 billion will have to be found to run northern Ireland then it is wrong.

blanch152 · 15-09-2018 10:48pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If it starts with the premise that 11 or 12 billion will have to be found to run northern Ireland then it is wrong.

It seems that study is underestimating the effect on living standards in the South, as it doesn't account for the cost of increasing public service pay and social welfare in the North to match the South. 15% cut in living standards is optimistic.

It is likely that places like Monaghan would become economic wastelands under unification.

FrancieBrady · 15-09-2018 10:51pm

blanch152 wrote: »

It is likely that places like Monaghan would become economic wastelands under unification.

That happened because of partition. And only partially recovered through massive cost to the Irish exchequer and the EU.

Imreoir2 · 16-09-2018 12:11am

blanch152 wrote: »

It is likely that places like Monaghan would become economic wastelands under unification.

Anything other than "just coz" to back up that assertion?

blanch152 · 16-09-2018 12:21am

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Anything other than "just coz" to back up that assertion?

If the South suffers a 15% decrease in living standards, that will disproportionately affect rural areas like Monaghan which will suffer a bigger hit, maybe 30%. The loss of the lucrative cross-border smuggling option will hit the local black economy hard as well.

FrancieBrady · 16-09-2018 12:24am

blanch152 wrote: »

If the South suffers a 15% decrease in living standards, that will disproportionately affect rural areas like Monaghan which will suffer a bigger hit, maybe 30%. The loss of the lucrative cross-border smuggling option will hit the local black economy hard as well.

Seriously, is this the politics forum or AH?

VinLieger · 16-09-2018 9:27am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Seriously, is this the politics forum or AH?

The 15% is a general figure, if its say 15% in dublin we know it will be more elsewhere much like we saw post 2008

FrancieBrady · 16-09-2018 9:49am

VinLieger wrote: »

The 15% is a general figure, if its say 15% in dublin we know it will be more elsewhere much like we saw post 2008

It was this bit I was reacting to:

blanch152 wrote:

The loss of the lucrative cross-border smuggling option will hit the local black economy hard as well

Laundering of fuel will continue as long as dye is used to differentiate it.

Importation of cheap cigarettes will also continue and isn't occuring because of the partition border.
The UK as a whole estimates cigarette smuggling is around 2 billion pounds worth for the whole UK with northern Ireland being just a part of that figure.

Smuggled product from northern Ireland does not typically benefit the 'local' economy at all, as I and others living close to the border can go and get things ourselves quite legally. i.e. heating oil, alcohol, groceries, tools and other things.

Smuggling typically benefits those who cannot easily cross the border, those living much further south.

The post was an ill-judged attempt to scare monger about the removal of the border.

View · 10-02-2019 11:58pm

judeboy101 wrote: »

Green flag with a golden harp, the tricolour highlights our differences, the original flag of the republic doesn't.

The original flag associated with Ireland was blue with a golden harp. It is still in use in the U.K.’s royal standard and, in a modernised form of the harp, in our President’s standard.

Anthracite · 11-02-2019 1:11am

View wrote: »

The original flag associated with Ireland was blue with a golden harp. It is still in use in the U.K.’s royal standard and, in a modernised form of the harp, in our President’s standard.

I suppose, as with the 'British Isles', the question is who was it associated with us by?

View · 11-02-2019 1:36am

Anthracite wrote: »

I suppose, as with the 'British Isles', the question is who was it associated with us by?

The question isn’t really relevant as it was used for hundreds of years by people here in Ireland as their flag.

Anthracite · 11-02-2019 1:45am

View wrote: »

The question isn’t really relevant as it was used for hundreds of years by people here in Ireland as their flag.

I'm curious - by whom?

View · 11-02-2019 2:03am

Anthracite wrote: »

I'm curious - by whom?

By the government and people of Ireland.

What do you think people used as a flag prior to 1916 (which is when the Tricolour started to become a popular flag and even then it was very much associated solely with one strand of public opinion here).

An Claidheamh · 11-02-2019 10:04am

View wrote: »

By the government and people of Ireland.

What do you think people used as a flag prior to 1916 (which is when the Tricolour started to become a popular flag and even then it was very much associated solely with one strand of public opinion here).

View, there was no government of Ireland to actually use this harp flag.

And, can you tell us all what public opinion the tricolour does not represent?

murphaph · 11-02-2019 10:27am

An Claidheamh wrote: »

View, there was no government of Ireland to actually use this harp flag.

And, can you tell us all what public opinion the tricolour does not represent?

The tricolour would never represent unionists. You just can't undo the fact it was draped over the coffins of almost every IRA man buried. I would have no problem changing these things if it helped smoothen the transition.

The anthem would have to be changed too.

I would actually hope that unification could be used to reform our own government, especially local and regional government. Just appending NI would be a huge wasted opportunity.

VinLieger · 11-02-2019 10:34am

murphaph wrote: »

The tricolour would never represent unionists. You just can't undo the fact it was draped over the coffins of almost every IRA man buried. I would have no problem changing these things if it helped smoothen the transition.

The anthem would have to be changed too.

I would actually hope that unification could be used to reform our own government, especially local and regional government. Just appending NI would be a huge wasted opportunity.

If it was part of the deal that the flag and anthem are changed there is no way the border referendum would ever pass in the south

breatheme · 11-02-2019 11:34am

murphaph wrote: »

The tricolour would never represent unionists. You just can't undo the fact it was draped over the coffins of almost every IRA man buried. I would have no problem changing these things if it helped smoothen the transition.

The anthem would have to be changed too.

I would actually hope that unification could be used to reform our own government, especially local and regional government. Just appending NI would be a huge wasted opportunity.

VinLieger wrote: »

If it was part of the deal that the flag and anthem are changed there is no way the border referendum would ever pass in the south

Quoting posts from the Brexit thread because I didn't feel like derailing...

As a no deal Brexit becomes more and more likely, are these things that Ireland should be considering?

According to this poll, in the event of no deal, 44% vs 35% percent would support having a referendum. The rest is don't knows. So excluding the don't knows that means 56% would be in favour of a border poll, although that doesn't mean it may pass.

According to the BBC, several cabinet ministers have said that would mean reunification is likely, however the Secretary of State remains unconvinced.

cgcsb · 11-02-2019 11:36am

breatheme wrote: »

According to the BBC, several cabinet ministers have said that would mean reunification is likely, however the Secretary of State remains unconvinced.

Lol, the secretary of state is a yungwan on work experience.

blanch152 · 11-02-2019 11:44am

breatheme wrote: »

Quoting posts from the Brexit thread because I didn't feel like derailing...

As a no deal Brexit becomes more and more likely, are these things that Ireland should be considering?

According to this poll, in the event of no deal, 44% vs 35% percent would support having a referendum. The rest is don't knows. So excluding the don't knows that means 56% would be in favour of a border poll, although that doesn't mean it may pass.

According to the BBC, several cabinet ministers have said that would mean reunification is likely, however the Secretary of State remains unconvinced.

That poll wasn't a Northern Ireland poll, it was a poll in the South. A figure of 35% in the South not even wanting a Border poll is very interesting, but not in the way you think.

As for the BBC report, clearly an attempt to scare the DUP into supporting TM's deal at the last moment.

breatheme · 11-02-2019 12:01pm

blanch152 wrote: »

That poll wasn't a Northern Ireland poll, it was a poll in the South. A figure of 35% in the South not even wanting a Border poll is very interesting, but not in the way you think.

As for the BBC report, clearly an attempt to scare the DUP into supporting TM's deal at the last moment.

You are correct, here is an actual poll from NI, in a report from LT.

In this one, in the event of a No Deal Brexit, 48% of respondents said they'd definitely vote for a UI... plus another 7& who would probably vote the same way.

johnnyskeleton · 11-02-2019 12:02pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Lol, the secretary of state is a yungwan on work experience.

Mod Note:

Please read the charter re: the standards of debate required before posting here again.

11-02-2019 12:04pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The GFA works only if it is a process and it has ground to a destabilising halt over 10 or 12 years with a lot of things (including a border poll) that it should have achieved not achieved.

A process? to what end?

blanch152 · 11-02-2019 12:08pm

breatheme wrote: »

You are correct, here is an actual poll from NI, in a report from LT.

In this one, in the event of a No Deal Brexit, 48% of respondents said they'd definitely vote for a UI... plus another 7& who would probably vote the same way.

Question 8 is very interesting too.

60% to 29% would vote to remain in the UK if Brexit doesn't happen. You would have to assume that a soft Corbyn Brexit, which preserved the CU and SM would result in a similar outcome. Such a negotiated future arrangement remains the most likely long-term outcome in my opinion.

breatheme · 11-02-2019 12:23pm

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree, because based on the current state of affairs, I think that a cliff-edge no deal Brexit is the most likely outcome.

I do think that a UK in the EU negates the possibility of a border poll to happen in the decades to come.

downcow · 11-02-2019 12:25pm

VinLieger wrote: »

If it was part of the deal that the flag and anthem are changed there is no way the border referendum would ever pass in the south

Interesting on here people’s perspective of UI is that roi absorbs NI. Well I am assuming that when you say the anthem and flag is precious and cannot be changed you are not referring to the flag and anthem of NI but rather roi. This is a tad arrogant is it not? If there was unification why would you anthem and flag be more precious than mine ? Serious question that will help me understand what this ireland of equals within the Eu would look like.

Dyr · 11-02-2019 12:29pm

downcow wrote: »

Interesting on here people’s perspective of UI is that roi absorbs NI. Well I am assuming that when you say the anthem and flag is precious and cannot be changed you are not referring to the flag and anthem of NI but rather roi. This is a tad arrogant is it not? If there was unification why would you anthem and flag be more precious than mine ? Serious question that will help me understand what this ireland of equals within the Eu would look like.

NI doesn't have a flag or an anthem, the United Kingdom does

We can come up with a compromise though, something that would express the equal standing given to both communities and expressed a desire to see them both coexist harmoniously

I'm trying to think what such a flag would like

Enzokk · 11-02-2019 12:33pm

downcow wrote: »

Interesting on here people’s perspective of UI is that roi absorbs NI. Well I am assuming that when you say the anthem and flag is precious and cannot be changed you are not referring to the flag and anthem of NI but rather roi. This is a tad arrogant is it not? If there was unification why would you anthem and flag be more precious than mine ? Serious question that will help me understand what this ireland of equals within the Eu would look like.

I think, seeing that you are a democrat, if there is a vote for a united Ireland that the whole island should vote on which flag and anthem the country should accept. Would you agree with this?

11-02-2019 12:34pm

downcow wrote: »

Interesting on here people’s perspective of UI is that roi absorbs NI. Well I am assuming that when you say the anthem and flag is precious and cannot be changed you are not referring to the flag and anthem of NI but rather roi. This is a tad arrogant is it not? If there was unification why would you anthem and flag be more precious than mine ? Serious question that will help me understand what this ireland of equals within the Eu would look like.

Why would a unified Ireland adopt "God Save the Queen" as its anthem? I mean surely even you can see how comically stupid that sounds.

I'm praying to Jesus you come back and try to give a logical reason for why. I'm the mood for a side-splitting laugh.

VinLieger · 11-02-2019 12:38pm

downcow wrote: »

Interesting on here people’s perspective of UI is that roi absorbs NI. Well I am assuming that when you say the anthem and flag is precious and cannot be changed you are not referring to the flag and anthem of NI but rather roi. This is a tad arrogant is it not? If there was unification why would you anthem and flag be more precious than mine ? Serious question that will help me understand what this ireland of equals within the Eu would look like.

Im not saying it is im just making the point that the nationalist feeling which would be required for a passing border poll in Ireland would be very difficult to sell along with the idea of we change our flag and anthem. For the same reason people say the tricolour is unacceptable to unionists as so many ira/SF members have been buried with it on their coffins it would be unthinkable for SF to back getting rid of it even if the result was a UI.

I do find it ironic you claiming it would be arrogant for Unionists to have to accept the tricolour and our anthem when you've previously been arguing for the ROI to basically do whatever the UK wants as regards brexit....

seamus · 11-02-2019 12:38pm

downcow wrote: »

Interesting on here people’s perspective of UI is that roi absorbs NI.

Well, lexically that makes sense. It's unification of the whole island, called "Ireland". Since the official name of the Republic is "Ireland", then a unified island will also be called "Ireland", not "The United state of Ireland and Northern Ireland".

Beyond that, nobody has really given it proper thought because a border poll was not on the horizon.

Naturally as one would expect where two jurisdictions merge, the seat of parliament would be in the larger one. But it's possible that the Northern Assembly could be maintained - perhaps if each province had its own assembly, with a smaller Dail, we might get more done.

Well I am assuming that when you say the anthem and flag is precious and cannot be changed you are not referring to the flag and anthem of NI but rather roi. This is a tad arrogant is it not? If there was unification why would you anthem and flag be more precious than mine ? Serious question that will help me understand what this ireland of equals within the Eu would look like.

It's pure assumption. From the standpoint of someone in the Republic - this is Ireland, and the North is a subjugated territory. This logically follows on that everything about it, including flags or anthems, are products of the occupier and will therefore will rejected when unification takes place.

Like I say, nobody has really thought about it seriously. And that's probably because if a TD was to come out and say that Amhrán Na Bhfiann will be/won't be the anthem of a United Ireland, then they're causing a sh1tstorm for themselves for no good reason.

To a certain extent, people are likely also taking cues from German unification. When Germany unified, they didn't adopt a new flag. Unified Germany used the new Federal Republic flag. The symbols of the subjugated territory (east Germany) were discarded.

Personally I feel that the current Irish flag is more than adequate to represent the entire island, as that's its intent in the first place. It's not a statement of anger against the British or a symbol of rebellion. It's a statement of peace.
The anthem may need changing to something less IRA-ish though.

downcow · 11-02-2019 12:39pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why would a unified Ireland adopt "God Save the Queen" as its anthem? I mean surely even you can see how comically stupid that sounds.

I'm praying to Jesus you come back and try to give a logical reason for why. I'm the mood for a side-splitting laugh.

I agree, absolutely ridiculous. But What I can’t get is why you cannot are that it would be equally ridiculous to have the soldiers song and the tricolour. Why would a new shared ireland have that.

...and in your own words. I'm praying to Jesus you come back and try to give a logical reason for why. I'm the mood for a side-splitting laugh

Skelet0n · 11-02-2019 12:41pm

Bambi wrote: »

downcow wrote: »

Interesting on here people’s perspective of UI is that roi absorbs NI. Well I am assuming that when you say the anthem and flag is precious and cannot be changed you are not referring to the flag and anthem of NI but rather roi. This is a tad arrogant is it not? If there was unification why would you anthem and flag be more precious than mine ? Serious question that will help me understand what this ireland of equals within the Eu would look like.

NI doesn't have a flag or an anthem, the United Kingdom does

We can come up with a compromise though, something that would express the equal standing given to both communities and expressed a desire to see them both coexist harmoniously

I'm trying to think what such a flag would like

Something with green for the Irish and orange for the British, maybe?
Maybe something similar to the Ivory Coast’s flag?

downcow · 11-02-2019 12:48pm

I have jumped across from the brexit thread and speed read this thread.
I think it is very refreshing that people are talking about various options rather than the binary two. Unfortunately there is no space in the gfa for any innovative ideas in ways forward. Not even an independent NI

Imreoir2 · 11-02-2019 1:14pm

downcow wrote: »

Interesting on here people’s perspective of UI is that roi absorbs NI. Well I am assuming that when you say the anthem and flag is precious and cannot be changed you are not referring to the flag and anthem of NI but rather roi. This is a tad arrogant is it not? If there was unification why would you anthem and flag be more precious than mine ? Serious question that will help me understand what this ireland of equals within the Eu would look like.

A nations symbols should reflect it's people. The Unionist tradition in the north east of the island will be a small minority in a UI. The PUL community will be a regional minority ethnic group whose culture and traditions should enjoy legal protection and access to funding etc in a UI, but should not expect to be given the same prominance as the culture and traditions and symbols that represent the vast majority of the population.

Unionists can expect to enjoy a similar place in a UI that the Welsh have in the UK, equall citizens with equal rights, freedom and legal protecton to practice their own traditions, but it is not the Welsh flag nor the Welsh anthem that represents the UK and no one would expect it to.

jm08 · 11-02-2019 1:30pm

downcow wrote: »

Interesting on here people’s perspective of UI is that roi absorbs NI. Well I am assuming that when you say the anthem and flag is precious and cannot be changed you are not referring to the flag and anthem of NI but rather roi. This is a tad arrogant is it not? If there was unification why would you anthem and flag be more precious than mine ? Serious question that will help me understand what this ireland of equals within the Eu would look like.

For a UI to work, it will need to absorb NI. As seen with the GFA, when left to its own devices, Stormont has been unable to get away from sectarian politics. That politics needs to be diluted into normal democratic politics. I don't think Irish people will have a problem with being generous to unionists / people who identify as British and making sure they feel comfortable in a united Ireland.

Border Poll discussion

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