Castletown

2ndcoming · 20-03-2012 1:25pm

Local teenagers (the vast majority of them not scumbags as many here have said, but ordinary kids the same as any other part of the country) have had their few cans in the Forest and down by the river on nicer days for at least the last 50 years and probably as long as there's been a town in Celbridge.

It would make a lot more sense to put a few permanent bins in place along the river walk and let them know if they clean up after themselves and don't cause trouble they'll be alright, rather than come on here blowing about "lock them all up and fine their parents" or any other silly nonsense.

Personally I'd far rather the guards were spending their time investigating actual crimes like car theft or at least having a presence on the streets than wasting their time chasing after kids who are only going to go and do the same thing next weekend.

Thankfully we've yet to have an incident of any of these youngsters biting walkers or chasing after bicycles, but sure as long as your dogs are alright...

Karlitto · 20-03-2012 1:51pm

As I have said before,

I have no problem with people having their drinks and even a camp fire or a BBQ down by the river. As long as they have a bit of courtesy and clean up after themselves and mind their own business.

I am not labeling everyone who drinks in a feild a scumbag, I label the people who shout abuse at people and leave their rubish scattered all over the place scumbags.

It is people like you who make me sick, if the kids are drinking, causing trouble for walkers by and vandelising the place, this is infact a crime incase you didn't know. The issue that you are referring to should be down to Gardi staffing, not utilization of time....

And also, as I have said, there are some aggresive dogs in the world, but don't dare act like every dog is vicious and chases after cyclists trying to bite them.

But, in that said, I am sure there has been a fair case of muggings from drunk scumbags in that park.

Problem is, it is people like you who are trying to make people ignore one topic and focus on another.... "hey everyone, ignore our communities youth getting drunk and vandalising the place and look! A dog off the lead!"

Please....

Joe Public · 20-03-2012 2:11pm

You are correct in saying that not every teenager drinks and causes a mess but it is now far more common than 30 years ago. The liberalisation on the selling of alcohol had a lot to do with the current problem. The pressure nowdays is more on young people to drink and to drink to excess and many can't handle it and it changes their normal behaviour into that of antisocial animals. I often ask groups nicely to drop their litter into bins or at least clear up after and drop a bag full beside a litter bin or whatever. I've noticed some do but many don't. The ones that are openly causing the problems are giving a bad name to teenagers in general as this is what the public are witnessing on a daily basis. In these times when Ireland is doing their best to attract more tourism and create more jobs by selling the country as a beautiful place with friendly people, what do they find in many beauty spots except cans and bottles left behind from drinking parties.

2ndcoming · 20-03-2012 3:38pm

Karlitto wrote: »

Problem is, it is people like you who are trying to make people ignore one topic and focus on another.... "hey everyone, ignore our communities youth getting drunk and vandalising the place and look! A dog off the lead!"

Please....

First of all you don't know the first thing about me so saying "people like you make me sick" just makes you sound like a self-righteous idiot tbh.

You think I'm saying ignore one problem and demonise the other, that's pretty ironic as that's exactly what you have done in most of your posts.

I have no problem with dogs having a run about up the front lawns, it's the perfect place for it and pooing in the long grass is natural and shouldn't bother anyone.

The problem with teenagers drinking and leaving a mess behind them would be greatly diminished by putting bins along the walk and letting them know that once they clean up after themselves and don't cause trouble they'll be alright. The traditional local solution where some busy-body calls the guards on them makes them feel like rebels (satiating a traditional teenage urge) and provides them the option of saying, well why should we clean up, some knob is just gonna call the guards and we're going to have to run off anyway.

While you may be "sure" there have been many muggings up in "that park" (aka the front fields) I've lived here all my life and never heard of one. Given how quickly the majority of posters here are to label them all scumbags or "animalistic" I doubt anyone would ever hear the end of it if it had ever happened so you can logically rule it out entirely.

Celbridge is not Beirut, thankfully, it's not even like the vast majority of Dublin suburbs when it comes to instances of teenage violence or serious anti-social behaviour. It never has been and you can try paint it how you want but that's a fact.

Similarly it's also a fact that teenagers have always been down the fields on sunny days and probably always will be, and middle-aged people will give out about them on boards or call the guards and the cycle continues ad infinitum.

Education is key to any changes in societal behaviour, and while teenagers will always want to get their kicks and push boundaries, educating them to do so without causing other people trouble or making a mess is a much more achievable change that would be welcomed by all, if only the majority knew how to go about it the right way.

Educating dog-owners to properly train their dogs if they are going to let them run free in a public place is just as important in making the place more welcoming to the general public by the way.

Karlitto · 20-03-2012 3:54pm

In my previous posts, I have not demonised one topic and ignored the other,

If you read the posts, you would see that I am suggesting compromise... dog owners should clean up after their dogs on the commonly used walkways, keep dogs on the lead whilst they are aggresive and train them not to be.

However, I do not believe a few petty bins would sort the problem down by the river, while SOME of the people drinking there or having a BBQ would clean up after themselves, most would not, they do not care what sort of rag order the area is left in. Bins would solve some of the rubbish issues, but not the tree burning, vandalism and abusive behaviour some people sling forward.

Also, if you read my posts, you would see clearly, I am not refering to the people who dring there during the day time, I find the people who do, are in plain sight and do clean up after themselves. Its the ones who go up on the evenings, when it is dark. There is no one around to see them so they do not feel as if they need to pick up.

I go to castletown every single day, and every Saturday and Sunday I bring down a couple of black bags to pick up the ****e these scumbags leave behind. To be honest, if they would dump it all in the one place in a neat pile, I wouldn't mind. But it's not, its scattered all over the place. Nevermind the branches of trees snapped off and the damaged trees from fires being lit under them.

I am sure there have been muggings in Castletown, and I am also sure there have been dog bites. Although, I have only heard of one incident of a dog bite (a lady was bitten by her own dog) by word of mouth, not to say thats true.

I do not find it an acceptable statment by you to simply say "add a few bins", this will not solve the problem.

If people want to enjoy the park, no matter what age they are, or time of day, thats fine, but, do have the common courtesy to leave the place as you left it. That is all I am saying.

And yes, if the group of people are getting out of hand, someone should call the cops. But, as I have said, setting fire to trees, dumping their rubbish, vandalising the area, anyone caught doing these should be arrested and fined (Oh, and if they are being abusive and shouting at passers by, which I have been on the recieving end of)

If there is a group of people having a few drinks, as long as they keep to themselves and tidy up, thats fine,

Davidth88 · 20-03-2012 4:21pm

2ndcoming . My belief is that if you put a few bins down by the river , the following would happen.

Within days the bins would be burnt or destroyed.

Its a shame , I think the only answer is to shut the place at night , securely . And patrol during the day . You need to stop the people drinking , it's a shame that people who may go down there as a family and maybe want some beer/wine with a picnic will be put out , and we will end up like the US where drinking becomes almost demonised , but thats the price we will have to pay.

I walk in Castletown on a reasonably regular basis , I have seen mature trees destroyed by burning , the picnic tables they had by the house that were a nice facility ..... destroyed by burning ( along with evidence of drinking ie smashed bottles and cans all over the field next to the burnt remains of the tables ).
The ' beaches ' by the river become almost unusable because of broken glass ( Karlitto , this must effect your dog walking because dogs could be badly hurt by broken glass in the sand )

The gazebo has been destroyed , ok it's being stripped back now for renovation but before then , it was destroyed by vandals .

People bleat on about a ' right of way ' etc , but would you really walk down by the river ( which is the footpath that is mentioned ) after dark ?

I think the poster who said the Police tolorate the drinking there because its out of sight/sound of the housing estates hit the nail on the head.

Karlitto · 20-03-2012 4:32pm

It does indeed, I have had to pick glass from between his pads several times.

I think closing off the park would not solve it, although I like the idea, but, unfortunately, people who really do want to get in, will.. perhaps regular patrols?

I go down to castletown every morning and evening during the weekdays, and morning afternoon and evening on weekends. This includes evening times during the winter which is pitch black, and usually I have no problems as I am a big built guy, but I have had a few cases of a few knackers chancing their arm hurling abuse at me form the bushes or trying to rile my dog up...which both fail....as long as it stays verbal, but, this still doesnt mean it is acceptable!

2ndcoming · 20-03-2012 4:41pm

You're both leaving out the majority of what I said and focusing on the bins. Good point on the bins in fairness, if they were made out of wood or plastic (as they probably would be knowing Ireland) they probably would be destroyed in days. Make them out of metal.

The majority of what I was saying was that it takes education to change behaviours, or at least stop pandering to teenager's rebellious nature by making a big deal out of them and giving them the attention they desire, but sure carry on.

Karlitto · 20-03-2012 4:46pm

Or, get rid of them and dump them back to their parents who should bea dealing with this problem.... not us.

2ndcoming · 20-03-2012 5:04pm

Which just isn't going to happen, simple as. You can try and be realistic about what you can improve in a situation or come out with a statement like that which achieves absolutely nothing.

Karlitto · 20-03-2012 5:12pm

Well, quite frankly, a few bins aren't going to solve anything else....Infact, it will, the groups who do take their rubbish will place it in the bin, but the scum who just dump it will continue to do so, and probably set the bins on fire.

If there were regular patrols I think this would solve alot of the antosocial behaviour such as setting trees alight etc. And if the patrols would ask the people to clean up after themselves this could help.

If they don't, or cause trouble, call the cops and drop them on their parents door step. After all, they are their parents responsability.

Joe Public · 20-03-2012 6:18pm

Even metal bins down by the river would not last, they would be used for kicking practice until they come free from their mountings and then dumped in the river. Bins would take away from the natural beauty of the area. You would expect civilised human beings to respect the countryside and take their rubbish away with them and dispose of properly.

Davidth88 · 20-03-2012 6:43pm

Karlitto wrote: »

Well, quite frankly, a few bins aren't going to solve anything else....Infact, it will, the groups who do take their rubbish will place it in the bin, but the scum who just dump it will continue to do so, and probably set the bins on fire.

If there were regular patrols I think this would solve alot of the antosocial behaviour such as setting trees alight etc. And if the patrols would ask the people to clean up after themselves this could help.

If they don't, or cause trouble, call the cops and drop them on their parents door step. After all, they are their parents responsability.

Actually you should do what I advocated to Catherine Murphy , pick them up , dispose of the drink , and take them to the Garda Stn then get the parents to pick them up.

This would wake a few parents up who would realise their little angels are not exactly angelic

Joe Public · 05-12-2013 2:41pm

Already posted in the Celbridge Survey thread but important for here.

Just a reminder on the Winter opening times of the gates at Castletown House & Parklands. The Batty Langley gate is open 06.30 to 19.30, The Celbridge Avenue gate is open 06.45 to 19.45 and the M4 Vehicle access gate is open 07.00 to 20.00hrs and the gates are open every day (including all through Christmas) and some exciting news!! There have been sightings of a swan on the pond again this week.

baaba maal · 05-12-2013 6:40pm

Karlitto wrote: »

Hi Baaba,

Whilst I see where you are coming from in terms of KCC not being able to introduce a bye law stating that dogs must be kept on a lead. They infact can as it is written into the control of dogs act that the local authority can enforce their own bye laws. I have read the entire act, just to make sure of my facts. There is a reason that you must have your dog on a lead under the dublin city council district at all times other than specified (depending on time of year, it is generally between 8 and 11 AM and 4-5 PM)

Now, I do agree with the general consencious here, the scumbags drinking is an issue, well, let me explain my view.

I have no problem what so ever with a couple of people going down to castletown (obviously not in the middle of the feilds....) and having a few drinks, a camp fire or even a BBQ, my issue is, the scumbags that do go down burn trees, break the trees, are abusive to passers by and leave the place in utter ****. I remember walking my dog down there one night, we met a polish family who were having a few drinks and had a little camp fire going, they were nice to talk to, and the next morning when I went down for another walk, I swear to you, there was not a single can, bottle, wrapper, the only thing that would show anyone was there was a burn patch on the ground, the sticks and rocks used for the camp fire were all gone. This I have no problem with, general courtesy and respect goes a long way.... clean up after yourself is the golden rule here, yet so much youth don't seem to get this...

I don't think putting the age to drink at 21 would do anything, your still going to have kids, by kids I mean <18 out drinking. Leave the age at 18, but do enforce heafty penalties for people who supply a minor.

Sorry- I wasn't following this thread recently. Just a point of information- if we are talking about Castletown specifically, then any bye laws that KCC introduce would not be valid. Castletown is in the care of the OPW and so KCC byelaws are null and void- the OPW have to make their own rules on this. It is similar to the canals- they are in the care of Waterways Ireland. So both in terms of control of dogs and public drinking, if it is in Castletown then the OPW or the Gardai are the bodies responsible.

Joe Public · 06-12-2013 12:36am

baaba maal wrote: »

Sorry- I wasn't following this thread recently. Just a point of information- if we are talking about Castletown specifically, then any bye laws that KCC introduce would not be valid. Castletown is in the care of the OPW and so KCC byelaws are null and void- the OPW have to make their own rules on this. It is similar to the canals- they are in the care of Waterways Ireland. So both in terms of control of dogs and public drinking, if it is in Castletown then the OPW or the Gardai are the bodies responsible.

Good point, but to argue the case you'd need to be able to back it up with some quoted bylaw rules.
KCC are very weak on the implementation of their bylaws so any change would probably be for the better.

baaba maal · 07-12-2013 11:45am

Local authority bye laws pertain to areas in the care of of the council. Properties in the care of other state agencies are administered by those agencies. Agree 100% on the poor implementation (and drawing up of) bye laws by KCC.

emo72 · 23-06-2020 9:06pm

is the car park open up there yet? sorry for bumping old thread

mloc123 · 23-06-2020 9:51pm

emo72 wrote: »

is the car park open up there yet? sorry for bumping old thread

Yes, back open a few weeks now

Castletown

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