Castletown

Karlitto

Joe Public wrote: »

Can you explain why many, otherwise quiet, dogs are more inclined to attack people on bicycles? It has happened a friend of mine twice lately while cycling through Castletown. It has happened me in the past as well when I used to cycle.
Apart from laws and signs, it is common courtesy to make sure your dog is on a lead and under control when walking in public areas.

Hi there Joe,

I would apprechiate it, that if when you plan on replying to someone her, you indeed read the full post.

As I previously stated, there are no laws in Ireland stating a dog must be kept on a lead, furthermore, there are no bye laws in Kildare stating the same. There are some signs indeed stating that dogs must be kept on a lead within castletown, however, this sign is based off a law which that section has been amended out of it, and under the OPW act, castletown have not set a micro bye law to enforce the same.

Now, to get to yout point, I highly doubt any dog has actually attacked you or your friend on a bike. The dogs may very well walk or run up and try to jump up, yes.... thats right, just because a dog jumps up doesn't mean they are trying to attack you. I in all of my time walking in castletown have yet to see anyone (not just cyclists) be attacked by a dog, and I have only heard of 1 case where a woman was bitten by a dog, and two cases where two seperate incidents of two seperate dog being bitten by another dog.

Secondly, some dogs may not be used to bikes, so might chase after it to see what it is, or because they are afraid of it. So, have a bit of common sence here....

Anyway, if a dog attacks you, why do you not report it to the gaurds?

And once again, if you had of had the common courtesy to bother reading my post in full, I did say that aggresive dogs should be kept on a lead until it has been trained out of them.

If you want to put it in a, quite frankly, smart arsed way that you have, you shouldn't be cycling on the foot path come driveway where children or people are walking anyway, are you telling me that this is safe? If someone walks/runs across the path and doesn't see you, it could end badly...

Joe Public

I did read the full post and gave my views and didn't make a personal attack. I followed the forum's rules. I made no "smart arsed" comments.

If a dog runs at someone cycling and barks loudly whilst trying to catch their ankles that's good enough to be described as an attack even though the dog might think it is playing. Think of the person on the bicycle, they don't know the dog and so fear the worst.

The main driveway through Castletown Demesne is not exclusively for pedestrians and is worth keeping in mind while using.

Karlitto

I fully agree that the path come driverway is not restricted to pedestrians, nor is it restricted to humans.

If a dog runs at someone cycling and barks loudly whilst trying to catch their ankles that's good enough to be described as an attack even though the dog might think it is playing. Think of the person on the bicycle, they don't know the dog and so fear the worst.

I find it very hard to believe that either you or your friend were, what you call, "attacked", by a dog whilst cycling. A dog would never go for your ankles, but rather the tyres of the bike... but still, my point remains, if you don't class dogs on the same path your cycling on as "safe", do you consider it "safe" for you to be cycling on the same path that a small child could easily fall or run out infront of you?

An Ri rua

Karlitto wrote: »

I fully agree that the path come driverway is not restricted to pedestrians, nor is it restricted to humans.

If a dog runs at someone cycling and barks loudly whilst trying to catch their ankles that's good enough to be described as an attack even though the dog might think it is playing. Think of the person on the bicycle, they don't know the dog and so fear the worst.

I find it very hard to believe that either you or your friend were, what you call, "attacked", by a dog whilst cycling. A dog would never go for your ankles, but rather the tyres of the bike... but still, my point remains, if you don't class dogs on the same path your cycling on as "safe", do you consider it "safe" for you to be cycling on the same path that a small child could easily fall or run out infront of you?

That counts as one of the stupidest retorts that I have EVER read on Boards.ie. A dog will try to bite the person if that is what they are about. Not the tyres ???? I think you must be driving in a cage so long that you forget how things are on a bike. The dog CAN see you. The dog WILL try to bite YOU, not the bike, if that is their intention in attacking. Its happened to me, its happened to generations of cyclists young and old since bicycles were invented. You must know little about cycling and nothing about dogs and I believe that you owe all of us a public retraction of such stupid, ill-informed statement of mis-fact.

Karlitto

An Ri rua wrote: »

That counts as one of the stupidest retorts that I have EVER read on Boards.ie. A dog will try to bite the person if that is what they are about. Not the tyres ???? I think you must be driving in a cage so long that you forget how things are on a bike. The dog CAN see you. The dog WILL try to bite YOU, not the bike, if that is their intention in attacking. Its happened to me, its happened to generations of cyclists young and old since bicycles were invented. You must know little about cycling and nothing about dogs and I believe that you owe all of us a public retraction of such stupid, ill-informed statement of mis-fact.

You will be waiting for a long long time if you think I am going to retract that statement. The dog doesn't distinguish the difference between you and the bike while your are moving... anyway, I have never seen a cyclist being attacked by a dog, the most I have seen is a dog walking infront of a cyclist. A child could do the same, so my statement still stands.

I must say, I love the amount of people who I have met, either in person, on forums or other networks who seem to have this somewhat arrogant view that they know exactly how to train dogs, what they are thinking and why they do some of the things they do, but, have never had a dog themselves.

An Ri rua

Karlitto wrote: »

You will be waiting for a long long time if you think I am going to retract that statement. The dog doesn't distinguish the difference between you and the bike while your are moving... anyway, I have never seen a cyclist being attacked by a dog, the most I have seen is a dog walking infront of a cyclist. A child could do the same, so my statement still stands.

I must say, I love the amount of people who I have met, either in person, on forums or other networks who seem to have this somewhat arrogant view that they know exactly how to train dogs, what they are thinking and why they do some of the things they do, but, have never had a dog themselves.

I still stand over what I've said, that the statement regarding non-biting of ankles is, forgive the pun (and slight on dogs), dog-stupid. Dogs do differentiate between the person and the bike. I have NEVER in my country life seen a dog bite a steel bicycle. I have seen them bite ankles and of course bite cows' ankles. Dogs are exceedingly intelligent and perceptive, as the thrust of your empathy for them must surely concede.

However, I have read your excellent post #30 and concede that you do of course know plenty about dogs and care about them too.

I admire your defence of their rights (I believe we put people first all too often). I would say this, however, regarding dog litter. You must also remember the person who tends the field / lawns. The tractor operator (and I know a few in public parks) can be hit by dog faeces as the grass is cut. It is a good deal bigger than fox , rabbit or bird dirt. Let's be fair. Although you are doing sterling work, and I admire you for it, there is room for improvement there.

ps A big thank you for your initial post here regarding the latest law. It is an eye opener for me and clarifies a lot.

ps I'm a dog and cat owner with a lot of empathy and insight for animals. I regret having to put a lead on my best pal Westie but its vital with a dog with prey instinct. There is NO other safe way, for him or for other sentient beings. Terriers= lunatics.

Kind regards

Karlitto

An Ri rua wrote: »

I still stand over what I've said, that the statement regarding non-biting of ankles is, forgive the pun (and slight on dogs), dog-stupid. Dogs do differentiate between the person and the bike. I have NEVER in my country life seen a dog bite a steel bicycle. I have seen them bite ankles and of course bite cows' ankles. Dogs are exceedingly intelligent and perceptive, as the thrust of your empathy for them must surely concede.

However, I have read your excellent post #30 and concede that you do of course know plenty about dogs and care about them too.

I admire your defence of their rights (I believe we put people first all too often). I would say this, however, regarding dog litter. You must also remember the person who tends the field / lawns. The tractor operator (and I know a few in public parks) can be hit by dog faeces as the grass is cut. It is a good deal bigger than fox , rabbit or bird dirt. Let's be fair. Although you are doing sterling work, and I admire you for it, there is room for improvement there.

ps A big thank you for your initial post here regarding the latest law. It is an eye opener for me and clarifies a lot.

ps I'm a dog and cat owner with a lot of empathy and insight for animals. I regret having to put a lead on my best pal Westie but its vital with a dog with prey instinct. There is NO other safe way, for him or for other sentient beings. Terriers= lunatics.

Kind regards

I'm not perfect, but, I find alot of people are quite ignorant, agreed with the size part of the dog feaces, but, I don't see a problem, really, in a long grassed field to let the dog take a poo. Walkways (not just paved footpaths) yes, absoloutely, be responsible and clean it up. At the end of the day, there is a reason the long grass is long, cause it hasn't been cut in quite a while, so, in my eyes, this gives enough time in this god forsaken country for it to rain and wash it away. Fox poo smells 100000000000000 times worst than any dog poo.

My guy is a cross between a Lab and a Staff, you can train the little guy out of it, just takes alot of time as I am sure you know. Dogs are a direct reflection of their owner. Believe me, Gimli was in a very very bad way when we got him from the pound and has come many many miles since. Now he is fine.

At the end of the day, I firmly believe people need to cop on and realise that they cannot claim every piece of this planet for themselves, this includes in house and over seas. The dogs need somewhere to get out, socialise and exercise.

Joe Public

There is no problem letting a dog have a poo in a long grassed field as long as it is not a public amenity area where you have, for example, children playing hide and seek or rolling in the long grass. If a dog is the responsibility of an owner then it is up to the owner to make sure their dog's poo is not left in a public place. Throwing the plastic bag with poo into the ditch is an all too common sight which makes you wonder as to the mentality of some people.
Motorised vehicles, bicycles, prams, buggies, joggers and pedestrians all use the main artery road through Castletown Demesne and all look out for each other's safety as expected. Dogs do have the natural preying instinct and can go for people on bicycles and other animals such as cats, sheep and cattle. Dogs can be a bit over friendly or curious and approach people whether they like it or not. That's why there is a law saying that dogs must be kept on a lead at all times in public places. There is no such thing as a dog being in full control unless it is on a short lead.
I do love dogs and had one once but I also understand their instincts.

Karlitto

Joe Public wrote: »

There is no problem letting a dog have a poo in a long grassed field as long as it is not a public amenity area where you have, for example, children playing hide and seek or rolling in the long grass. If a dog is the responsibility of an owner then it is up to the owner to make sure their dog's poo is not left in a public place.

Yes, I fully agree. Hence why I pick up the poo when he does it on the walkways or, the more commonly used places, such as the field infront of the house.

Joe Public wrote: »

Throwing the plastic bag with poo into the ditch is an all too common sight which makes you wonder as to the mentality of some people.

Yep, it really F***ing annoys me when people do that, whilst it is not a "direct danger" to kids as I don't see them opening a strange bag, the dogs can get into it and eat it..... and even worse, its the same as dumping cans, bottles, beer boxes and general **** the knackers leave there on a Friday and Saturday night..... those people are no better ...

Joe Public wrote: »

Motorised vehicles, bicycles, prams, buggies, joggers and pedestrians all use the main artery road through Castletown Demesne and all look out for each other's safety as expected. Dogs do have the natural preying instinct and can go for people on bicycles and other animals such as cats, sheep and cattle. Dogs can be a bit over friendly or curious and approach people whether they like it or not.

I do understand, I can't speak for all dog owners here, but my dog is under control, he will run up to people and sniff or sometimes jump, (here is the key point) but, if I call him, he will come. However, with other dogs, he will go and sniff/play, it can sometimes take a couple of recalls to get him back.

Joe Public wrote: »

That's why there is a law saying that dogs must be kept on a lead at all times in public places.

As I wasnt sure of my opinion of you before, but now I am ok with it, I like you, I don't want this to seem harsh, but there is actually no law stating that a dog must be on a lead at all times, or indeed at any time within Kildare (even under the OPW of castletown house, there is no bye law stating the same) in a public place.

Joe Public wrote: »

There is no such thing as a dog being in full control unless it is on a short lead.

While this is true, you are able to train it out of them, of course you will have the odd time where they will disobey, but hey, thats the same as both adults and children.

Joe Public wrote: »

I do love dogs and had one once but I also understand their instincts.

Good I am a dog lover, and don't get me wrong, I am harsh sometimes, but I just want to speak for those with no voice, especially when "people" in the most general term seem to claim everything to be theirs.... by that I mean, people put themselves above dogs, and quite frankly, every other animal on the planet, which is wrong, most of the animals around now, were here long long long before people. But we came and took it away from them.

I just like to remind people that this sort of mentallity is not fair, we can live in harmony, but there has got to be compromise on both sides. For example, dogs can be off the lead, pick up after your dog in a senseble manner, and don't let your dog go up to people who don't want them to, but on the same side, don't give out if you are approached by a dog (just ask the owner to recall them instead of getting abusive, which I have seen and been the target of several times)

Now, on to a slightly related topic, has anyone but me (dog walkers mainly as the dogs are the ones who find it) noticed people ****? I mean, I have seen many times **** with tissues in it that were clearly used to "wipe".... unless the dogs have discovered how to wipe themselves See, its not just dogs

Davidth88

I am glad to see this thread coming back to life ( as the OP ).

I walk along the Avenue a lot , and I have taught my daughter to cycle there ( at a quiet time ).

I have seen dogs ' attack ' people on bikes along the avenue , by attack I mean run at them and bark , often causing the person to swerve or wobble etc

I have not witnessed any accidents between bikes and pedestrians on the avenue.

As for tidying up after your dog , TBH , I think you should do there wherever the dog does their business. I don't really follow your logic Karlitto.

Thinking about dogs being ' under control ' , I was reminded of the video of Fenton in Richmond Park

Have a great Patricks weekend everyone , and lets hope the weather allows us to enjoy Castletown .

Karlitto

Indeed, have a great weekend.

Well David, it's like this, if the dog goes in long grass, whats the problem? Really, please tell me. Do you have a problem with fox, bird and rabbit poo? And as I said previously which you seem to have missed about the human poo.

Just a point about the cycling, its fine, with care. Same with dogs off the lead. Now, take your point and reverse it, just because you have never seen a cyclist being involved in an accident happen, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Like I have never seen someone being chased on a bike by a dog, I am sure it happens.

But, quite frankly, I get the feeling from you that you are one of the people I am talking about when I say "there are some people that have the mentallity of *this is a human place, no one else, so I am not going to compromise*"

I am not trying to be unfair here, and sorry if I sound harsh, but, someone needs to talk from the other side.

If there is no compromise from the non dog walker side, why should the dog walkers bother to try to compromise? I mean, its simple, we could get our dogs run freely, and yes we could pick up after our dogs. But, what is better, letting our dogs run up and sniff someone (as there is nothing within the law or bye laws making this illegal unless the dog is aggresive no matter how scared the person may be) and picking up all the poo, or when a dog goes over to to a person who doesn't want them to and call them back and pick up the poo in the commonly used walk ways and areas ignore the tall grass where it is rarley used. (if used at all)

Does this make sense?

Davidth88

Eh ?

Actually , if you follow my posts from the beginning you will see that I don't agree with dogs having to be on leads while in the fields , I like to see dogs running about and they need to have that facility .

TBH , dogs are a small part of any issues within Castletown , the drinking and general anti social behaviour is much more important.

I have witnessed ( and tackled ) youths setting fire to trees and basically actiing the maggot there . The litter down on the river walk is appalling

Joe Public

Karlitto wrote: »

Now, on to a slightly related topic, has anyone but me (dog walkers mainly as the dogs are the ones who find it) noticed people ****? I mean, I have seen many times **** with tissues in it that were clearly used to "wipe".... unless the dogs have discovered how to wipe themselves See, its not just dogs

This kind of stuff unfortunately relates to Castletown as well, often as a result of teenagers on the booze and lack of inhibitions or maybe can't go home until they sober up. You may have seen some of the results of teenagers mixed with booze in this weeks Liffey Champion arising from "promotions" in Maynooth last week. The gardai were seemingly powerless and used the lack of manpower answer.
The legal age for alcohol drinking should be raised to 21 in this country with severe penalties for anyone in breach and anyone supplying. Some teenagers should be on a lead in public places when under the influence:)
I don't think cutting the sponsorship from drink companies for sporting events will make much difference.

baaba maal

The issue of bye laws is not that simple. The Control of Dogs Act states that dogs must be kept under "effective control"- it doesn't require dogs to be on a lead. Any bye law can only reinforce existing primary (enacted by the Dail) legislation.
In other words, KCC cannot introduce a bye law compelling dog owners to keep their dogs on a leash because their is no national law requiring this. The bye laws in relation to al fresco drinking are based on various bits of legislation relating to anti-social behaviour and so are based on antional legislation.
In terms of Castletown, it really is down the Gardai to enforce the law, but the reality of the situation is that the Gardai would prefer that outdoor 'recreational' drinking be done in places like Castletown because it means less complaints to them than if it is happening in housing estates around Celbridge.
Depressing but true.
In relation to dog poo, there really is a problem in owners not removing it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxocariasis
If it was your toddler playing in the long grass in Castletown who picked this up, you would be fairly narked.

Karlitto

Hi Baaba,

Whilst I see where you are coming from in terms of KCC not being able to introduce a bye law stating that dogs must be kept on a lead. They infact can as it is written into the control of dogs act that the local authority can enforce their own bye laws. I have read the entire act, just to make sure of my facts. There is a reason that you must have your dog on a lead under the dublin city council district at all times other than specified (depending on time of year, it is generally between 8 and 11 AM and 4-5 PM)

Now, I do agree with the general consencious here, the scumbags drinking is an issue, well, let me explain my view.

I have no problem what so ever with a couple of people going down to castletown (obviously not in the middle of the feilds....) and having a few drinks, a camp fire or even a BBQ, my issue is, the scumbags that do go down burn trees, break the trees, are abusive to passers by and leave the place in utter ****. I remember walking my dog down there one night, we met a polish family who were having a few drinks and had a little camp fire going, they were nice to talk to, and the next morning when I went down for another walk, I swear to you, there was not a single can, bottle, wrapper, the only thing that would show anyone was there was a burn patch on the ground, the sticks and rocks used for the camp fire were all gone. This I have no problem with, general courtesy and respect goes a long way.... clean up after yourself is the golden rule here, yet so much youth don't seem to get this...

I don't think putting the age to drink at 21 would do anything, your still going to have kids, by kids I mean <18 out drinking. Leave the age at 18, but do enforce heafty penalties for people who supply a minor.

Joe Public

There is already a bye law against drinking in public places in Celbridge for anyone and not just for underage. The garda have lost faith in the enforcement of it because it is up to them to issue the fines in the first place and then up to KCC to follow up but KCC don't. The people who regularily breach this bye law are aware of the lack of enforcement and do not fear it.

I see there are new signs up around Castletown saying that litter wardens and dog wardens are on patrol.

Karlitto

Indeed, it is sad to see,

I don't understand it though, I mean, Castletown, its a public place right? So, should the Gardi not be able to fine people and enforce it themselves? Law is law right?

I saw the new signs saying the dog and litter wardens are patrolling, I haven't met them myself, but know they patrol together. I have been told the dog wardens are requesting dog licences from everyone, so I took a photo of mine and keep it on my phone just in case.

To be hoenest, I et the feeling that the litter warden is only there for dog crap (as this is not the dog wardens jurisdiction), but, they should also go down there and take a look at the place on Friday and Saturday nights.. where the real problem is happening.

Joe Public

Bye laws are local laws and ultimate enforcement is by the local authority which is KCC.

Drinking under the age of 18 is covered by common law and the Gardai have full powers there.

I don't think KCC see litter warden and dog warden duties as being warranted outside the hours of 9-5. They should bring in the voluntary "civil police" to give a hand out.

Karlitto

Catch 22 so..... this sickens me....

Karlitto

Ok, so just checked it out,

Your right about the drinking in public and its down to the local authorities etc. However, they can be prosicuted by the Gardi for being "drunk" in a public place, which is infact common law.

As dumb as I find that law, they could get these troublemakers on these grounds.

The reason I say I find this law dumb is, you are in a pub, you drink, you get drunk, you walk home. Pub = public place, street you walk down to get home = public place.....

2ndcoming

Local teenagers (the vast majority of them not scumbags as many here have said, but ordinary kids the same as any other part of the country) have had their few cans in the Forest and down by the river on nicer days for at least the last 50 years and probably as long as there's been a town in Celbridge.

It would make a lot more sense to put a few permanent bins in place along the river walk and let them know if they clean up after themselves and don't cause trouble they'll be alright, rather than come on here blowing about "lock them all up and fine their parents" or any other silly nonsense.

Personally I'd far rather the guards were spending their time investigating actual crimes like car theft or at least having a presence on the streets than wasting their time chasing after kids who are only going to go and do the same thing next weekend.

Thankfully we've yet to have an incident of any of these youngsters biting walkers or chasing after bicycles, but sure as long as your dogs are alright...

Karlitto

As I have said before,

I have no problem with people having their drinks and even a camp fire or a BBQ down by the river. As long as they have a bit of courtesy and clean up after themselves and mind their own business.

I am not labeling everyone who drinks in a feild a scumbag, I label the people who shout abuse at people and leave their rubish scattered all over the place scumbags.

It is people like you who make me sick, if the kids are drinking, causing trouble for walkers by and vandelising the place, this is infact a crime incase you didn't know. The issue that you are referring to should be down to Gardi staffing, not utilization of time....

And also, as I have said, there are some aggresive dogs in the world, but don't dare act like every dog is vicious and chases after cyclists trying to bite them.

But, in that said, I am sure there has been a fair case of muggings from drunk scumbags in that park.

Problem is, it is people like you who are trying to make people ignore one topic and focus on another.... "hey everyone, ignore our communities youth getting drunk and vandalising the place and look! A dog off the lead!"

Please....

Joe Public

You are correct in saying that not every teenager drinks and causes a mess but it is now far more common than 30 years ago. The liberalisation on the selling of alcohol had a lot to do with the current problem. The pressure nowdays is more on young people to drink and to drink to excess and many can't handle it and it changes their normal behaviour into that of antisocial animals. I often ask groups nicely to drop their litter into bins or at least clear up after and drop a bag full beside a litter bin or whatever. I've noticed some do but many don't. The ones that are openly causing the problems are giving a bad name to teenagers in general as this is what the public are witnessing on a daily basis. In these times when Ireland is doing their best to attract more tourism and create more jobs by selling the country as a beautiful place with friendly people, what do they find in many beauty spots except cans and bottles left behind from drinking parties.

2ndcoming

Karlitto wrote: »

Problem is, it is people like you who are trying to make people ignore one topic and focus on another.... "hey everyone, ignore our communities youth getting drunk and vandalising the place and look! A dog off the lead!"



Please....

First of all you don't know the first thing about me so saying "people like you make me sick" just makes you sound like a self-righteous idiot tbh.



You think I'm saying ignore one problem and demonise the other, that's pretty ironic as that's exactly what you have done in most of your posts.



I have no problem with dogs having a run about up the front lawns, it's the perfect place for it and pooing in the long grass is natural and shouldn't bother anyone.



The problem with teenagers drinking and leaving a mess behind them would be greatly diminished by putting bins along the walk and letting them know that once they clean up after themselves and don't cause trouble they'll be alright. The traditional local solution where some busy-body calls the guards on them makes them feel like rebels (satiating a traditional teenage urge) and provides them the option of saying, well why should we clean up, some knob is just gonna call the guards and we're going to have to run off anyway.



While you may be "sure" there have been many muggings up in "that park" (aka the front fields) I've lived here all my life and never heard of one. Given how quickly the majority of posters here are to label them all scumbags or "animalistic" I doubt anyone would ever hear the end of it if it had ever happened so you can logically rule it out entirely.



Celbridge is not Beirut, thankfully, it's not even like the vast majority of Dublin suburbs when it comes to instances of teenage violence or serious anti-social behaviour. It never has been and you can try paint it how you want but that's a fact.



Similarly it's also a fact that teenagers have always been down the fields on sunny days and probably always will be, and middle-aged people will give out about them on boards or call the guards and the cycle continues ad infinitum.



Education is key to any changes in societal behaviour, and while teenagers will always want to get their kicks and push boundaries, educating them to do so without causing other people trouble or making a mess is a much more achievable change that would be welcomed by all, if only the majority knew how to go about it the right way.

Educating dog-owners to properly train their dogs if they are going to let them run free in a public place is just as important in making the place more welcoming to the general public by the way.

Karlitto

In my previous posts, I have not demonised one topic and ignored the other,

If you read the posts, you would see that I am suggesting compromise... dog owners should clean up after their dogs on the commonly used walkways, keep dogs on the lead whilst they are aggresive and train them not to be.

However, I do not believe a few petty bins would sort the problem down by the river, while SOME of the people drinking there or having a BBQ would clean up after themselves, most would not, they do not care what sort of rag order the area is left in. Bins would solve some of the rubbish issues, but not the tree burning, vandalism and abusive behaviour some people sling forward.

Also, if you read my posts, you would see clearly, I am not refering to the people who dring there during the day time, I find the people who do, are in plain sight and do clean up after themselves. Its the ones who go up on the evenings, when it is dark. There is no one around to see them so they do not feel as if they need to pick up.

I go to castletown every single day, and every Saturday and Sunday I bring down a couple of black bags to pick up the ****e these scumbags leave behind. To be honest, if they would dump it all in the one place in a neat pile, I wouldn't mind. But it's not, its scattered all over the place. Nevermind the branches of trees snapped off and the damaged trees from fires being lit under them.

I am sure there have been muggings in Castletown, and I am also sure there have been dog bites. Although, I have only heard of one incident of a dog bite (a lady was bitten by her own dog) by word of mouth, not to say thats true.

I do not find it an acceptable statment by you to simply say "add a few bins", this will not solve the problem.

If people want to enjoy the park, no matter what age they are, or time of day, thats fine, but, do have the common courtesy to leave the place as you left it. That is all I am saying.

And yes, if the group of people are getting out of hand, someone should call the cops. But, as I have said, setting fire to trees, dumping their rubbish, vandalising the area, anyone caught doing these should be arrested and fined (Oh, and if they are being abusive and shouting at passers by, which I have been on the recieving end of)

If there is a group of people having a few drinks, as long as they keep to themselves and tidy up, thats fine,

Davidth88

2ndcoming . My belief is that if you put a few bins down by the river , the following would happen.

Within days the bins would be burnt or destroyed.

Its a shame , I think the only answer is to shut the place at night , securely . And patrol during the day . You need to stop the people drinking , it's a shame that people who may go down there as a family and maybe want some beer/wine with a picnic will be put out , and we will end up like the US where drinking becomes almost demonised , but thats the price we will have to pay.

I walk in Castletown on a reasonably regular basis , I have seen mature trees destroyed by burning , the picnic tables they had by the house that were a nice facility ..... destroyed by burning ( along with evidence of drinking ie smashed bottles and cans all over the field next to the burnt remains of the tables ).
The ' beaches ' by the river become almost unusable because of broken glass ( Karlitto , this must effect your dog walking because dogs could be badly hurt by broken glass in the sand )

The gazebo has been destroyed , ok it's being stripped back now for renovation but before then , it was destroyed by vandals .

People bleat on about a ' right of way ' etc , but would you really walk down by the river ( which is the footpath that is mentioned ) after dark ?

I think the poster who said the Police tolorate the drinking there because its out of sight/sound of the housing estates hit the nail on the head.

Karlitto

It does indeed, I have had to pick glass from between his pads several times.

I think closing off the park would not solve it, although I like the idea, but, unfortunately, people who really do want to get in, will.. perhaps regular patrols?

I go down to castletown every morning and evening during the weekdays, and morning afternoon and evening on weekends. This includes evening times during the winter which is pitch black, and usually I have no problems as I am a big built guy, but I have had a few cases of a few knackers chancing their arm hurling abuse at me form the bushes or trying to rile my dog up...which both fail....as long as it stays verbal, but, this still doesnt mean it is acceptable!

2ndcoming

You're both leaving out the majority of what I said and focusing on the bins. Good point on the bins in fairness, if they were made out of wood or plastic (as they probably would be knowing Ireland) they probably would be destroyed in days. Make them out of metal.

The majority of what I was saying was that it takes education to change behaviours, or at least stop pandering to teenager's rebellious nature by making a big deal out of them and giving them the attention they desire, but sure carry on.

Karlitto

Or, get rid of them and dump them back to their parents who should bea dealing with this problem.... not us.

2ndcoming

Which just isn't going to happen, simple as. You can try and be realistic about what you can improve in a situation or come out with a statement like that which achieves absolutely nothing.