Freemasons

skooterblue2 · 08-10-2020 11:03pm

Hand in Your Pants wrote: »

Try The Guardian for a start if you're interested.

Caught me a right bunny boiler here with proper daddy issues.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/05/freemasons-masons

She thinks she would not be accepted because she is a catholic, that is false. She thinks she would not be accepted because she is a woman that is false, there is an order called the Eastern Star for lady masons.

I can tell you she would not gain entry because she is not coming to freemasonry with an unbaised heart.

3d4life · 08-10-2020 11:03pm

gozunda wrote: »

..."Envelope" - "Send their own representative" - Do they not have the internet? :pac:

Didnt I just post a link to their web site for you.

:cool:

skooterblue2 · 08-10-2020 11:06pm

3d4life wrote: »

Didnt I just post a link to their web site for you.

Gozunda has no interest in joining just making a mockery of it. Dont feed the troll.

gozunda · 08-10-2020 11:07pm

3d4life wrote: »

Didnt I just post a link to their web site for you.

Well I was replying to this as detailed above ...

kooterblue2 wrote:

am sure addressing an envelope the GLI, Molesworth Street, Dublin 1 will get there.. The GLI will send their own representative.

I'm assuming that suggesting we should submit any queries and potential AMA questions by snail mail :cool:

skooterblue2 · 08-10-2020 11:10pm

Elizabeth Flaky Pajamas wrote: »

how does someone progress through the ranks as a freemason?

It also helps if you start young. Normal men can join at 21. De Molays can join at 18. I like candidates to be 26 or over. Characters appear more clearer after that age.

gozunda · 08-10-2020 11:12pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Gozunda has no interest in joining just making a mockery of it. Dont feed the troll.

No not at all. This is AH btw or are you now suggesting that asking questions is not allowed?

Sorry if I don't meet your very high 'joining' criteria

Though I think this may be relevant ...

I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member.

Groucho Marx

That said- referring to people as "trolls" is not an acceptable thing in this club afaik ...

Montage of Feck · 08-10-2020 11:15pm

"The Catholic Church's current norm on Masonic associations is the 1983 CDF Declaration on Masonic associations.[90][p] The 1983 CDF declaration states that Catholics "who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion."[6]"

An Ri rua · 08-10-2020 11:16pm

Hand in Your Pants wrote: »

Some lovely PR work for the masons going on here. No doubt a few posters are members themselves. A secretive clandestine organisation whose higher orders hold influential positions in society, what could possibly go wrong?! This is actually a real problem in the UK judiciary and police force where members who are masons are involved in corruption, cronyism and the obstruction of reforms due to their divided loyalties.

I was actually approached to join the masons years ago but declined. Not something I would want to be attached to.

Can't speak for the Freemasons but the Rosicrucians would be dead against having your hand in your pants. Not cool. Dissipates the psychic energy.

skooterblue2 · 08-10-2020 11:21pm

Montage of Feck wrote: »

"The Catholic Church's current norm on Masonic associations is the 1983 CDF Declaration on Masonic associations.[90][p] The 1983 CDF declaration states that Catholics "who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion."[6]"

You will find there are as many Catholics as Protestants inside in Grand Lodge, even know some pagans and wiccans. You would be surprised who you meet inside. Does that declaration also cover the KoC and AoH as well?

An Ri rua · 08-10-2020 11:21pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

Ooh that's the most masony thing said ont his thread so far

When all things that you see, see you with love, soon all things that you love, will you see.

topper75 · 08-10-2020 11:44pm

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

Instead I became a member of the Union of European Federalists (Union der Europäischen Föderalisten). This is an organisation advocating for a united, democratic federalist Europe. It's not a secret society, but is a far more useless use of my time as I believer a United Europe is critical if we are to address some of the major challenges facing the continent.

So we'll have scorching hot summers too? About time. Make it so fedaralists. If you can pull it off - my concession will be rolling my watch forward an hour.

gozunda · 08-10-2020 11:59pm

topper75 wrote: »

So we'll have scorching hot summers too? About time. Make it so fedaralists. If you can pull it off - my concession will be rolling my watch forward an hour.

I dunno but this federalist thing seems to be big with some interests. I find it just a bit close to the whole Thousand year Reich thing tbh ...

QueenRizla · 09-10-2020 7:59am

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Caught me a right bunny boiler here with proper daddy issues.

Wow, you are really not doing any favours to the perception of its attitude to women, never mind calling people trolls. That’s a pretty nasty way of diminishing the article because it was written by a woman.

IAMAMORON · 09-10-2020 8:44am

skooterblue2 wrote: »

You will find there are as many Catholics as Protestants inside in Grand Lodge, even know some pagans and wiccans. You would be surprised who you meet inside. Does that declaration also cover the KoC and AoH as well?

Jews, Muslims and other religious orgs also.

The defining belief principle is that there is one overall powerful being, i think the all seeing eye or somthing similar, but there is no membership rules based on religious faith.

The RCC ban everyrhing they have no authority over, but they have a substantial membership.

topper75 · 09-10-2020 9:09am

gozunda wrote: »

I dunno but thus federalist thing seems to be big with some interests. I find it just a bit close to the whole Thousand year Reich thing tbh ...

Yeah I was just throwing AvB's 'joke' back over the wall. In serious terms, there are insidious forces trying to use a worthwhile trading block as some kind of supranational longer term project. Worth noting that plenty of non-Germans with this sick fantasy too. They will sneakily try to equate respect for other nations with the desire to be governed by them. Wrong. Homogenisation would destroy the very thing that makes Europe the continent interesting and vibrant.

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Jews, Muslims and other religious orgs also.

The defining belief principle is that there is one overall powerful being, i think the all seeing eye or somthing similar, but there is no membership rules based on religious faith. ...

They say this.
But when I visited a lodge during Culture Week, they explained how a bible is always open on the table during ceremonies. I asked how this sat with the 'all religions' principle and got a wishy-washy answer. I may as well have been asking him what the handshake is.

skooterblue2 · 09-10-2020 9:14am

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Jews, Muslims and other religious orgs also.

The defining belief principle is that there is one overall powerful being, i think the all seeing eye or somthing similar, but there is no membership rules based on religious faith.

The RCC ban everyrhing they have no authority over, but they have a substantial membership.

Some jews, very very few muslims. Only met one in my time. We welcome most but it helps to have an underlying faith. The RRC has softened it position on the GL over the years. I cannot speak for other organisations.

skooterblue2 · 09-10-2020 9:18am

QueenRizla wrote: »

Wow, you are really not doing any favours to the perception of its attitude to women, never mind calling people trolls. That’s a pretty nasty way of diminishing the article because it was written by a woman.

It has nothing to do with her being a woman its with the pre concieved attitudes she holds. She is a woman with no respect for culture, faith or heritage because she has none of her own, so she wants to wreck everyone elses. Those people we can do without. I would say the same if a man wrote the article and suggest there were a few extra black beans in the ballot the night he was nominated.

EmmetSpiceland · 09-10-2020 9:19am

branie2 wrote: »

The Dan Brown novel, the Lost Symbol, provided an interesting look on Freemasonry.

This is just one of the reasons why there should be no AMA. How can anyone take such insulting nonsense seriously? Will just be filled with ridiculous “attacks”. People are, generally, fearful of things they don’t understand, or can’t comprehend.

Another reason is that any serious questions answered will just bore users. If anyone has any questions about the Order I would urge you to “check out” the official website http://www.freemason.ie

Those with an “inquisitive” mind, and pure of heart, will find it both interesting and informative.

skooterblue2 · 09-10-2020 9:24am

topper75 wrote: »

They say this.
But when I visited a lodge during Culture Week, they explained how a bible is always open on the table during ceremonies. I asked how this sat with the 'all religions' principle and got a wishy-washy answer. I may as well have been asking him what the handshake is.

It was not a bible. It may have looked like a bible, it may have read like a bible but it was not a bible. When you come in you get told what that book really is and what it stands for. There are more intricate parts to just observing the book as just a bible. I wont be discussing anymore what the book is or what it represents or how it is used.

If you think Masonry is just about handshakes and tea and cakes afterwards you are much mistaken. There is a history, culture and heritage to it. Like I said it is not for everyone and neither should it be.

jimgoose · 09-10-2020 9:56am

BDI wrote: »

Decent chaps. They do charity without looking for Facebook likes.
Might help each other out when it comes to business opportunities but mainly social and charitable and classy.
If you hear of an anonymous donation or act of some kind there’s a good chance it was George Michael or a Freemason.

^^^
This, essentially. Woman had a couple of uncles Masons in the old days. They're all getting old nowadays, and interest in the organization is waning.

topper75 · 09-10-2020 11:05am

skooterblue2 wrote: »

It was not a bible. It may have looked like a bible, it may have read like a bible but it was not a bible. When you come in you get told what that book really is and what it stands for. There are more intricate parts to just observing the book as just a bible. I wont be discussing anymore what the book is or what it represents or how it is used.

It is a bible and it isn't a bible. So now we are into familiar territory for most Irish people - "it is bread, but it is now the body of a jewish lad executed by Romans 2000 years back".

Either way - it is text that relates to a particular revealed religion from a particular part of the world. Squaring that with simply demanding that members believe in a supreme being and can otherwise by a Hindu or Muslim, I don't think that is on the level.

skooterblue2 · 09-10-2020 11:37am

jimgoose wrote: »

^^^
This, essentially. Woman had a couple of uncles Masons in the old days. They're all getting old nowadays, and interest in the organization is waning.

Interest is waning in many organisations, sports, social clubs, youth development, hobbies and what not. People are just lazy and want to just netflixs and chill. Then they say there is nothing to do.

skooterblue2 · 09-10-2020 11:42am

topper75 wrote: »

It is a bible and it isn't a bible. So now we are into familiar territory for most Irish people - "it is bread, but it is now the body of a jewish lad executed by Romans 2000 years back".

Either way - it is text that relates to a particular revealed religion from a particular part of the world. Squaring that with simply demanding that members believe in a supreme being and can otherwise by a Hindu or Muslim, I don't think that is on the level.

and neither should you have to. Its not for you simple as, dont bother yourself with these trivialities which book is on the table and be on your way. The Book on the table is the predominant religion of that lodge or the country which it sits in. Should you be in Israel it would be the Torah or should you be east of Turkey it would be the Quran.

the purple tin · 09-10-2020 1:09pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

This is just one of the reasons why there should be no AMA. How can anyone take such insulting nonsense seriously? Will just be filled with ridiculous “attacks”. People are, generally, fearful of things they don’t understand, or can’t comprehend.

Another reason is that any serious questions answered will just bore users. If anyone has any questions about the Order I would urge you to “check out” the official website http://www.freemason.ie

Those with an “inquisitive” mind, and pure of heart, will find it both interesting and informative.

Will you stop trying to put the kaibosh on the AMA :mad:

We haven't had one in like half a year.
If you know the AMA format you know that it is as much about the person themselves as it is the job they do or whatever, so they are never boring imo.
You never answered what degree you are Emmet.

Skooter, Emmet, IAMAMORON and Covid tell us what degree you are please and the whoever is the highest can do AMA.

the purple tin · 09-10-2020 1:11pm

Or if you would prefer to do it anonymous just PM Niamh and she will set it all up and give you a temporary username.

edit: Emmet if you decide to do it anonymously lay off the "quotation marks" or you will give yourself away

Treppen · 09-10-2020 1:13pm

Sounds like Scientology with all the levels and secrets.

What could be so great about these secrets anyway. Why does a group of auld farts dressing up get to be the bearers of universal wisdom.

Knights of Columbus is the proper place for Irish Catholics. Freemasons are mostly wannabe c of i

skooterblue2 · 09-10-2020 1:15pm

the purple tin wrote: »

Will you stop trying to put the kaibosh on the AMA :mad:

We haven't had one in like half a year.
If you know the AMA format you know that it is as much about the person themselves as it is the job they do or whatever, so they are never boring imo.
You never answered what degree you are Emmet.

Skooter, Emmet, IAMAMORON and Covid tell us what degree you are please and the whoever is the highest can do AMA.

I am not doing any AMA, so you can forget that, I am not getting a reprimand or being the focus of interest for any of the higher ups. I am not speaking for Molesworth Street, end of. If you want an AMA ask Molesworth street to send someone. As for my degree, all you need to know is I am at least a Master Mason.

Treppen · 09-10-2020 1:19pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I am not doing any AMA, so you can forget that, I am not getting a reprimand or being the focus of interest for any of the higher ups. I am not speaking for Molesworth Street, end of. If you want an AMA ask Molesworth street to send someone. As for my degree, all you need to know is I am at least a Master Mason.

Can you square a circle?

the purple tin · 09-10-2020 1:19pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I am not doing any AMA, so you can forget that, I am not getting a reprimand or being the focus of interest for any of the higher ups. I am not speaking for Molesworth Street, end of. If you want an AMA ask Molesworth street to send someone. As for my degree, all you need to know is I am at least a Master Mason.

What degree is master?
You can do it all anonymous if you like, Molesworth never has to know it was you.

Do they make you take an oath of silence or something when you sign up?

EmmetSpiceland · 09-10-2020 1:21pm

the purple tin wrote: »

Will you stop trying to put the kaibosh on the AMA :mad:

We haven't had one in like half a year.
If you know the AMA format you know that it is as much about the person themselves as it is the job they do or whatever, so they are never boring imo.
You never answered what degree you are Emmet.

Skooter, Emmet, IAMAMORON and Covid tell us what degree you are please and the whoever is the highest can do AMA.

What? I’m not a Mason, of any “degree”.

Just don’t think an AMA of one would be of any real interest and would end up being insulting to the Order.

IAMAMORON · 09-10-2020 1:24pm

the purple tin wrote: »

Skooter, Emmet, IAMAMORON and Covid tell us what degree you are please and the whoever is the highest can do AMA.

I am not a member but several old schoolfriends, family and other associates are.

To be frank personally I am not into the secrets etc. But that is just me personally, I was previously asked to join and decided against it. I have no grudges or ill feeling towards them, or any club or society to be honest.

Speedsie · 09-10-2020 1:29pm

the purple tin wrote: »

What degree is master?
You can do it all anonymous if you like, Molesworth never has to know it was you.

Do they make you take an oath of silence or something when you sign up?

I'm not a mason, but have you thought of looking at their website? There's a button where you can apply to join, and someone will contact you to answer any questions.

I did a tour of the grand lodge on Molesworth St a few years ago. Fabulous building. Has stained glass windows designed by Harry Clarke's father. The tour guide was happy to answer any questions.

https://freemason.ie/about-freemasonry/

skooterblue2 · 09-10-2020 1:30pm

the purple tin wrote: »

What degree is master?
You can do it all anonymous if you like, Molesworth never has to know it was you.

Do they make you take an oath of silence or something when you sign up?

If you are that interested, ask to join yourself. Go to the library. Find out about all the different kinds (Antediluvian orders Grand Lodge, Forresters, AoH, KoC and the OO are all in Ireland, Grand Orient are gone). 2B1Ask1.

09-10-2020 1:34pm

semi-zombie thread resurrected to remind the world that we don't exist. Now stop asking stupid questions, whoever it was.

the purple tin · 09-10-2020 1:34pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

If you are that interested, ask to join yourself. Go to the library. Find out about all the different kinds (Antediluvian orders Grand Lodge, Forresters, AoH, KoC and the OO are all in Ireland, Grand Orient are gone). 2B1Ask1.

No thanks. All the hush-hush stuff puts me right off.
I like everything out in the open.

If I am in a club or something I want to be able to chat to my friends and family and tell them all about it, or do an AMA about if I want.

EmmetSpiceland · 09-10-2020 1:37pm

the purple tin wrote: »

No thanks. All the hush-hush stuff puts me right off.
I like everything out in the open.

If I am in a club or something I want to be able to chat to my friends and family and tell them all about it, or do an AMA about if I want.

Glad that’s settled so. Maybe you could join a golf club and do an AMA yourself?

the purple tin · 09-10-2020 1:41pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Glad that’s settled so. Maybe you could join a golf club and do an AMA yourself?

Golf! You can file that idea somewhere dark :mad:

skooterblue2 · 09-10-2020 1:42pm

the purple tin wrote: »

No thanks. All the hush-hush stuff puts me right off.
I like everything out in the open.

If I am in a club or something I want to be able to chat to my friends and family and tell them all about it, or do an AMA about if I want.

Loads of jobs have oaths of secrecy. The Defence Forces, St Vincent de Paul etc etc. How would you like it if I was down at the pub and your wife met with the Almoner and asked charity because you were out of work for 6 months and the children were starving? What happens in Lodge stays in Lodge. How would you like if your doctor was at poker night telling his mates your father had cancer and heart problems and he could decide which would carry him first? Has your perspective changed now on secrecy?

You also need to remember the History of Mason in Europe and how they were targeted by Fascist in Spain and Nazis in Germany.

Speedsie · 09-10-2020 1:44pm

the purple tin wrote: »

No thanks. All the hush-hush stuff puts me right off.
I like everything out in the open.

If I am in a club or something I want to be able to chat to my friends and family and tell them all about it, or do an AMA about if I want.

One woman on the tour I did kept asking if they published a list of current members. I'm not entirely sure that any club or society does this. Certainly the tennis club I'm in doesn't, nor does the RDS.

skooterblue2 · 09-10-2020 1:49pm

Speedsie wrote: »

One woman on the tour I did kept asking if they published a list of current members. I'm not entirely sure that any club or society does this. Certainly the tennis club I'm in doesn't, nor does the RDS.

I have been over in the Province of Warwickshire in the UK they had a manual 2cm thick of names and photos of officers but there are 15,000 members in and around Birmingham. They used to 60,000 back in the 1960's when my Dad was there. They were all Christians and Sikhs.

the purple tin · 09-10-2020 1:50pm

Speedsie wrote: »

One woman on the tour I did kept asking if they published a list of current members. I'm not entirely sure that any club or society does this. Certainly the tennis club I'm in doesn't, nor does the RDS.

You could contact your tennis club and they will tell you who is chairman, treasurer etc. You can sit in on meetings too and they keep minutes.
Why can't the masons tell you who the top man in the country is, or do they not get told who he is.

the purple tin · 09-10-2020 1:54pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Loads of jobs have oaths of secrecy. The Defence Forces, St Vincent de Paul etc etc. How would you like it if I was down at the pub and your wife met with the Almoner and asked charity because you were out of work for 6 months and the children were starving? What happens in Lodge stays in Lodge. How would you like if your doctor was at poker night telling his mates your father had cancer and heart problems and he could decide which would carry him first? Has your perspective changed now on secrecy?

You also need to remember the History of Mason in Europe and how they were targeted by Fascist in Spain and Nazis in Germany.

That is patient confidentiality, NDAs and national security, a whole other ball game.
What secrets do you guys have that could be as important as that

Is it that holy grail bloodline stuff, the Architect or what?

skooterblue2 · 09-10-2020 1:59pm

the purple tin wrote: »

Why can't the masons tell you who the top man in the country is, or do they not get told who he is.

I am not sure who the Grand Master is, he passed away last year from Cancer and I havent been so busy with my own stuff to be bothered to take notice. Trust me I have enough going on in my own Lodge. We were going to do Charity events for Vision 20/20 a cycle race, a vintage car rally, a barbecue. Get new aprons, three new candidates to interview, 2 second degrees, and three third degrees are all on hold.

I also havent had a chance to visit Molesworth street last year. Then I am not attending Royal Arch and my application to the Knights is suspended due to covid. Why am I worried about the Grand Master when I have a full plate?

Jimbob1977 · 09-10-2020 2:01pm

It's always been alleged that freemasons are in charge of a secret "New World Order" that controls politics, society and commerce.

There is no doubt that many of America's Founding Fathers in 1776 were avowed freemasons. They were very secular and freethinking.

The other allegation is that they believe in a composite God from ancient civilisations like Judaism, Babylon and Egypt. Often believed to be the Devil.

Remarkably.... they are not allowed discuss religion or politics at their meetings.

jimgoose · 09-10-2020 2:05pm

the purple tin wrote: »

You could contact your tennis club and they will tell you who is chairman, treasurer etc. You can sit in on meetings too and they keep minutes.
Why can't the masons tell you who the top man in the country is, or do they not get told who he is.

https://freemason.ie/about-grand-lodge/grand-lodge-officers/

EmmetSpiceland · 09-10-2020 2:06pm

the purple tin wrote: »

That is patient confidentiality, NDAs and national security, a whole other ball game.
What secrets do you guys have that could be as important as that
Is it that holy grail bloodline stuff, the Architect or what?

You’re “interest” in the Freemasons seems to stretch beyond that of mild curiosity. It’s a little worrying.

jimgoose · 09-10-2020 2:28pm

the purple tin wrote: »

That is patient confidentiality, NDAs and national security, a whole other ball game.
What secrets do you guys have that could be as important as that
Is it that holy grail bloodline stuff, the Architect or what?

Come on, have you never wondered how on Earth Steve Guttenberg is still working??

Speedsie · 09-10-2020 2:40pm

jimgoose wrote: »

https://freemason.ie/about-grand-lodge/grand-lodge-officers/

Was just going to post that! All the senior officers published on line.
But not regular members!

Still think the purple tin should pay a visit to Molesworth Street when Current restrictions lift.

jimgoose · 09-10-2020 2:53pm

Speedsie wrote: »

Was just going to post that! All the senior officers published on line.
But not regular members!

Still think the purple tin should pay a visit to Molesworth Street when Current restrictions lift.

https://www.bishopstownlawntennisclub.com/about-us/

Bishopstown Tennis Club doesn't publish a list of members on their website either - we think they might be developing a tacnuke for use against Togher. Wait a minute, I'm a member - no, we're not doing that. Much.

Treppen · 09-10-2020 3:42pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I am not sure who the Grand Master is, he passed away last year from Cancer and I havent been so busy with my own stuff to be bothered to take notice. Trust me I have enough going on in my own Lodge. We were going to do Charity events for Vision 20/20 a cycle race, a vintage car rally, a barbecue. Get new aprons, three new candidates to interview, 2 second degrees, and three third degrees are all on hold.

I also havent had a chance to visit Molesworth street last year. Then I am not attending Royal Arch and my application to the Knights is suspended due to covid. Why am I worried about the Grand Master when I have a full plate?

Jeez you'd think you at least know who the grand master is!

Freemasons

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