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RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

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    #2102
    Skanco
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭Skanco


    Satellite TV.ie, the most expensive site in Europe to buy a Ka Band LNB, shipped to Wales with postage and VAT £67.11 have now put their prices up to £5,251.00, I wonder if this includes postage and VAT. LOL


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    #2103
    copacetic
    Subscribers Posts: 16,559 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    MarkK wrote: »
    Surely it's self evident that you don't want the hand Sky such an important role in the transmission the national TV service, they are foreign company who are broadcasting the RTE channels as a 'favour' to their customers.

    Why is it self evident? Is it because they are 'foreign'? Where is the favour? The Irish channels are on Astra, up linked from Ireland. They never go near the UK. All the main channels have ongoing contracts with sky.

    Sky look after the epg and box development, why shouldn't you use what's already there and proven ultra reliable, and has all the main Irish channels as your backup?


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    #2104
    zg3409
    Registered Users Posts: 6,567 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Saorsat KA LNBs are now on sale on ebay

    The KA LNB's are now for sale on eBay from some company in Cork with shipping to Europe.

    Search for "Inverto White Twin Ka Band LNB Saorsat Compatible" on http://www.ebay.ie not .com or click here http://www.ebay.ie/itm/190636198893/
    EUR 39.99 +EUR 3.85 shipping to Republic of Ireland

    Ka LNB Thread is here:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056538602


    I have added to the thread on receiving Saorsat and Freesat on one dish here:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056508099&page=5


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    #2105
    MarkK
    Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭MarkK


    copacetic wrote: »
    Where is the favour?
    They don't currently charge RTE nor their customers for providing the RTE channels.
    The BBC and ITV are paying Sky for the privilege.
    copacetic wrote: »
    The Irish channels are on Astra, up linked from Ireland. They never go near the UK.
    The transponder is owned by Sky and the encryption is controlled by SKy.
    copacetic wrote: »
    Sky look after the epg and box development, why shouldn't you use what's already there and proven ultra reliable, and has all the main Irish channels as your backup?
    Irish TV would be even more dependent on Sky but we no control over them as they are regulated by the UK's Ofcom.


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    #2106
    Skanco
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭Skanco


    RTE is being received and watched all over the UK + Scotland and Wales, with Sky Cards obtained in N. Ireland, but that is OK for Sky, they get the basic + package subscription for each one.That organisation should be controlled by Ofcom over their monopoly of the EPG.


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    #2107
    moro_original
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭moro_original


    Hi,

    Could anyone advise what the correct settings for Saorsat on a Hauppauge tuner card are. Unfortunately it doesn't automatically detect pilot / rolloff so it would be a great help to know these.

    There is a byte you need to send to the Hauppauge card that is mapped as follows:

    - Bit 0-1: Modulation (0 = Auto, 1 = QPSK, 2 = 8PSK, 3 = 16QAM)
    - Bit 2: Modulation System (0 = DVB-S, 1 = DVB-S2)
    - Bit 3-4: Roll-Off (0 = 0.35, 1 = 0.25, 2 = 0.20, 3 = reserved)
    - Bit 5-6: Spectral Inversion (0 = undefined, 1 = auto, 2 = normal, 3 = inverted)
    - Bit 7: Pilot Symbols (0 = off, 1 = on)

    Any help much appreciated. :)


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    #2108
    ISAA
    Registered Users Posts: 339 ✭✭ISAA


    All,

    Some Testing done today, triax 78cm antenna.

    here is the link:http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056508099&page=5


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    #2109
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,906 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    moro_original wrote: »
    Hi,

    Could anyone advise what the correct settings for Saorsat on a Hauppauge tuner card are. Unfortunately it doesn't automatically detect pilot / rolloff so it would be a great help to know these.

    There is a byte you need to send to the Hauppauge card that is mapped as follows:

    - Bit 0-1: Modulation (0 = Auto, 1 = QPSK, 2 = 8PSK, 3 = 16QAM)
    - Bit 2: Modulation System (0 = DVB-S, 1 = DVB-S2)
    - Bit 3-4: Roll-Off (0 = 0.35, 1 = 0.25, 2 = 0.20, 3 = reserved)
    - Bit 5-6: Spectral Inversion (0 = undefined, 1 = auto, 2 = normal, 3 = inverted)
    - Bit 7: Pilot Symbols (0 = off, 1 = on)

    Any help much appreciated. :)

    Only 256 possible values to try... that's not many.

    Life ain't always empty.



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    #2110
    Ronnie Raygun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭Ronnie Raygun


    moro_original wrote: »
    Could anyone advise what the correct settings for Saorsat on a Hauppauge tuner card are. Unfortunately it doesn't automatically detect pilot / rolloff so it would be a great help to know these.

    Afaia, the rolloff for DVB-S2 QPSK is 0.2.


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    #2111
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,770 ✭✭✭Apogee


    UlsterMan wrote: »
    Got one of the Inverto KA Band LNB's today. Set up a Zone 2 Sky dish (handy at the time) and had no problems getting it to work. Based in Portadown.

    A friend tested a 40cm camping dish last weekend in heavy overcast conditions, with dense rain. The receiver maintained an artefact-free picture for ages, and then the signal fell off the 'digital cliff' all of a shot and left only a blank screen.

    When he went outside and brushed the water off the dish, the picture returned error free again!

    So it would be very interesting to hear how moisture collection in the minidish perforations impacts on your signal.


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    #2112
    Pulidog
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭Pulidog


    This is my first post to Boards.ie, so please be patient.

    I would like to express my thanks to all of the posters here who have provided me with oodles of valuable guidance and direction over the last few months, as I decided whether or not it would be worth pursueing with Saorsat as I live in the UK, ( my personal preference would have been for RTE to have provided a service via Astra, even if requiring subscription). I particularly think that the advice offered by Watty was especially valuable and instructive, both on this Forum and on Techtir

    Early this week, I took a gamble and purchased a Ka band LNB, and today I hooked it up to a spare ultra cheap Ross HD kit and dish that I had lying around. Lo and Behold, RTE, RTE and RTE. the wonders of modern technology. A very happy ( all things considered) Expat here.

    The only letdown, TG4 is missing. Can anyone advise if TG4 is going to be included or not. I dont give a fig about TV3 or the other one.

    Again, Thank you all

    Tom


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    #2113
    Pulidog
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭Pulidog


    This is my first post to Boards.ie, so please be patient.

    I would like to express my thanks to all of the posters here who have provided me with oodles of valuable guidance and direction over the last few months, as I decided whether or not it would be worth pursueing with Saorsat as I live in the UK, ( my personal preference would have been for RTE to have provided a service via Astra, even if requiring subscription). I particularly think that the advice offered by Watty was especially valuable and instructive, both on this Forum and on Techtir

    Early this week, I took a gamble and purchased a Ka band LNB, and today I hooked it up to a spare ultra cheap Ross HD kit and dish that I had lying around. Lo and Behold, RTE, RTE and RTE. the wonders of modern technology. A very happy ( all things considered) Expat here.

    The only letdown, TG4 is missing. Can anyone advise if TG4 is going to be included or not. I dont give a fig about TV3 or the other one.

    Again, Thank you all

    Tom


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    #2114
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,479 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Pulidog wrote: »
    Early this week, I took a gamble and purchased a Ka band LNB, and today I hooked it up to a spare ultra cheap Ross HD kit and dish that I had lying around. Lo and Behold, RTE, RTE and RTE. the wonders of modern technology. A very happy ( all things considered) Expat here.

    The only letdown, TG4 is missing. Can anyone advise if TG4 is going to be included or not. I dont give a fig about TV3 or the other one.

    Whereabouts in the UK are you and what size dish are you using?

    Regarding TG4, no official announcement yet regarding launch date or final channel lineup. Announcement expected soon.


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    #2115
    Pulidog
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭Pulidog


    Hi:

    The dish I used came from a B&Q / Ross HD kit, approx 700x600 ovoid. The LNB is the standard Inverto Ka-Band one currently available. I used the receiver, again a Ross piece of kit, to tune in, and attained a signal quality of 57%, with a signal strength of high 90%s, How accurate these figures are, or how relevant, I'm not sure.

    Yesterdays weather was cloudy and dry, therefore rain was not an issue. At this stage, I'd rather be a little coy about my exact location, as I don't know if the powers-that-be can tweak the signal, however the Tooway tuning guide ( http://finder.tooway-instal.com/fixe/pages/index.html )advises that I use spot configuration #3

    Hope this helps


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    #2116
    moro_original
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭moro_original


    Somewhere west of Dundee or as far north as Orkney?


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    #2117
    Pulidog
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭Pulidog


    moro_original wrote: »
    Somewhere west of Dundee or as far north as Orkney?

    Hi,
    Sent you a pm


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    #2118
    zg3409
    Registered Users Posts: 6,567 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Hi,

    I said I would share my progress. Before the new LNBs came on the scene I had one from the USA. I decided to compare the two, show my dish setup and my multiswitch. More importantly I attempted to find out what signal level we should be aiming for, or what RTENL may have calculated rain fade to be.

    First off is my dish setup. This is just a temporary arangement until I know dish sizes and I may go for two LNBs on the one dish or seperate dishes. The brackets on the wall were put up years ago for future use,

    192529.jpg

    The top dish is ex polish alumium which is used for Freesat at 28 East. The bottom dish is temporary "camping" dish to test rain fade etc.


    Next to automatically switch from one dish to another I decided to get a multiswitch. You do not need one of these if you have less than 4 receivers. I got this one dead cheap (about 60 euro new)through Amazon Germany. Normally you could pay 150 euro plus. This has inputs for two LNBs. a TV aerial (for Saorview or Freeview) and has 6 outputs for up to 6 receivers or 3 that record. It's called a 9 x 6 Multiswitch.

    192531.jpg

    192590.jpg

    They can be confusing to setup and may require a special "Quattro" LNB for Freesat. They also drop some of the signal so a bigger dish is better. The connections for Freesat are to 4 on the top left


    192530.jpg


    The SaorSAT LNB just needs one connection. This goes to port number 2, vertical, 13V, no 22Khz. The other three inputs for port two are left unused. (top right)

    The TV aerial goes into the middle connection at the top.

    At the moment I have only two outputs going to the satellite receiver (bottom left). I labelled each coax with different colour tape at each end and on the multiswitch to make wiring and fault finding easier. You can buy special colour cables if you want.

    This is the signal I receive on the receiver:

    192534.jpg

    Note I set up the dish without using the Multiswitch to save on confusion. After the dish was set correctly:

    In the menu of the receiver I set up Astra 28.2 to use DiSEqc 1.0 LNB1
    In the menu of the receiver I set up Eutelsat 9A to use DiSEqc 1.0 LNB2

    As my receiver does not have an option of a 20Ghz LNB nor does it have a Satellite Called Saorsat, I used the settings for Eutelsat 9A and I added a transponder with settings "10.765 Symbol rate 25000, Vertical" After setting up the dish I just scanned this transponder to find RTE etc.
    All the above should be fairly straight forward for a professional installer.


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    #2119
    zg3409
    Registered Users Posts: 6,567 ✭✭✭zg3409


    While setting up the dish I took photos of the signal levels and compared my USA lnb to my new LNB.

    192536.jpg

    Note the little rain/snow hood. Sure it never rains in Ireland?!

    Note the photos of the USA LNB signal are back to front (right to left) compared to the new LNB (left to right)

    192535.jpg

    192537.jpg

    I attempted to compare the strength of the internet carrier (the fat ones) to the RTENL carrier (the skinny one) to see how much the signal is down in power. I also attempted to compare signal to noise to see how reliable/strong the signal was.

    I estimate for the USA LNB the signal is about 9dB above the noise (one line=10dB)

    Now the new LNB

    192538.jpg

    192539.jpg

    So I reckon with a 40cm dish I can get 10dB SNR and the carrier appears about 4 or 5dB lower than the nearest carrier.

    So what does this all tell us? Well firstly the USA LNB does not work as well on my dish (which is to be expected). My dish has a gain of about 32dB@12Ghz, while an 80cm dish has a gain of about 37dB@12Ghz. What will they be at 20Ghz?

    Calculator here:
    http://www.satsig.net/pointing/antenna-beamwidth-calculator.htm

    An increase in frequency will increase the dish gain, assuming the efficiency of the dish does not plummit. So that gives 36dB to 42dB or an increase in 6dB by going from 40cm to 80cm dish. Thus an 80cm dish might give a SNR of 16dB.

    Now my receiver seems to work fine, on Saorsat FEC and Bitrate, with 5dB SNR or less, during good weather. I have personally seen the signal go from 70% "quality" to 12% quality when a bad thunderstorm hit, and the signal froze. That was with a USA LNB on a 40CM dish in Dublin so plan for the worst. The 80cm dish size seems to be a general value, but the signal should be a little stronger in places like Limerick etc, and weaker in Belfast etc. That gives a rain margin of 11dB on an 80cm dish, with 16dB SNR.

    By the way the weather for above tests was rainless over all Ireland! with cloud cover, and feckin cold. I don't have a spare 80cm for testing.

    Thoughts?


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    #2120
    swoofer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,410 ✭✭✭swoofer


    thanks for nice postings, to help you i have that new lnb and put it on a 1.1m triax yesteday here in clare and got 94% signal and 74%q with a spiderbox 9000hd. I did expect a higher q figure but did not have time to tweak dish. my idea is to put a 64cm triax next to motorised or smaller. i was impressed with the rte 2 hd pic. hence me wanting to get saorsat.

    ok

    gbc


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    #2121
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,479 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    GBCULLEN wrote: »
    I did expect a higher q figure but did not have time to tweak dish.

    I always take satellite receiver signal strength/quality indications with a pinch of salt.

    I have a Manhattan FTA sat receiver and a Freesat receiver and when tested on the same LNB port the Manhattan gives readings in the hi 70s to mid 80s but when I attach the Freesat receiver I get 100% on both. Depends on the receiver I guess.


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    #2122
    swoofer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,410 ✭✭✭swoofer


    true, but the thing is that freesat tuner is by all accounts very sensitive and picks up quite a bit that other receivers can miss.


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    #2123
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    No, the Dish and LNB sets sensitivity. Pretty much just dish size.
    It's other things that happen in the set box.

    If reception is marginal at the set box you either have misaligned LNB/Dish, a faulty LNB, damaged cable or too small a dish.


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    #2124
    zg3409
    Registered Users Posts: 6,567 ✭✭✭zg3409


    From yesterday's Pat Kenny program

    Fast forward to 16:30

    http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2012/pc/pod-v-14021218m35stodaywithpatkenny-pid0-1115208.mp3

    Quotes

    "Called Saorsat"

    "in 3 or 4 weeks time I will be in a better position.."

    "basically we are waiting for approved receivers"

    "not same sat as Sky"

    "different frequency range"

    "because of footprint"

    "Just covers Ireland"

    From "Saorview Brian RTENL" not just a rumour


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    #2125
    zg3409
    Registered Users Posts: 6,567 ✭✭✭zg3409


    New guide to SaorSat. -Nothing we don't already know, but good for novices

    The first video explains how to add a transponder to a box to scan for SaorSat

    The second video explains how a DiSEqC switch works and how to get BBC and RTE on the one satellite box.

    http://www.tvtrade.ie/saorsat.html


    I have no problem linking to the guide as he does not have LNBs for sale!

    Second page, basically the same

    http://www.tvtrade.ie/blog/saorsat-overview-how-to-tune-in-saorsat/

    The main issue I would have is using Saorsat for LNB1. I would recommend Saorsat on LNB2 only, in case a Sky box is ever used. Most DiSEqC switches will default to LNB1 when no signal is received, so best to put Astra 28.2 on LNB1.

    PDF Diagram on how to wire up Saorsat dish only
    http://www.tvtrade.ie/images/saorsat-setup.pdf

    PDF Diagram of how to wire up two dishes:
    http://www.tvtrade.ie/images/combine-saorsat-and-freesat.pdf
    Correct wiring of 28.2 to LNB1 in this diagram

    Coverage
    http://www.tvtrade.ie/saorsat-coverage.html


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    #2126
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Agreed. Diseqc and especially Multiswitch always put 28E as LNB1

    I'd take the Welsh or Cornish coverage with a Lump of slate or tin.


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    #2127
    jpsr
    Registered Users Posts: 104 ✭✭jpsr


    I bought a second hand 1m channel master cm feedhorn/lnb which was used for tooway broadband, not to watch soarsat.

    I bought all for 50e, but i was told i could use this lnb for soarsat, so was thinking about using the dish aswell, the lnb has to connections for transmit and receive.

    On the top smaller part of the lnb it says-zinwell ku dro lnb,
    R.F 10.95-11.70 ghz
    I.F 950-1700 MHZ.
    The bottom main part to the lnb only gives the name, monolithics.

    Can this be used for soarsat.


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    #2128
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,770 ✭✭✭Apogee


    No, it's useless for Saorsat - completely wrong frequency range (19.7-20.2GHz required)


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    #2129
    Peter Rhea
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭Peter Rhea


    No Saorsat, that's a KU band lnb.


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    #2130
    jpsr
    Registered Users Posts: 104 ✭✭jpsr


    Ku band, can that be used as a normal lnb, for astra etc,
    but its just the top part thats bolted to the bigger lnb that says ku band, could the bigger bottom part be ka band for receiving.


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    #2131
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,770 ✭✭✭Apogee


    jpsr wrote: »
    Ku band, can that be used as a normal lnb, for astra etc,

    It can but it doesn't cover the full Ku-band range (10.7-12.7GHz), so you will be missing a significant number of channels.
    jpsr wrote: »
    but its just the top part thats bolted to the bigger lnb that says ku band, could the bigger bottom part be ka band for receiving.

    That's most likely the transmit part and useless for Saorsat.


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