Turkish forces have started bombing and attacking Kurdish people in Syria

Limpy · 12-10-2019 10:16pm

Any Syrian moves will be made with Russian knowledge. Assad would rather Turk backed jihadis then US occupied forces and Kurds. For the Kurds it's a land locked statelet surrounded by hostile forces. They would only survive by getting American dollars and Trump doesn't want to keep the money pit going. The Kurds chose the US over Syria and it has backfired. Not surprisingly either.

I think after the Russian mercs were killed after a supposed deal east of the Euphrates last year Putin gave up any hope of getting them back onboard.

aclruptur · 12-10-2019 10:48pm

1. First fact is, 19% of Turkey's population is Kurdish - check CIA's publications. cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/tu.html

- Why would Turkey move its army to do ethnic cleansing in an unknown territory in Syria? Why bother if the main intention is some sort of massacre?

2. Second fact is, PKK is recognised as a terrorist organisation by EU. You can find it in EU commission talks and documents.

And it's affiliated by PYD, YPG confirmed by US - listen to this senate hearing which is 2 mins long: youtube.com/watch?v=w-g8RVtYBM4.
If you are still not convinced, check their websites / online presence and find out what they are up to. There is literally no separation between them.

- Why does EU and US back a terrorist organisation in the first place?
(see PKK leader's speech here edition.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9902/22/kurds.02/ and his confession)

3. It's impossible to share the whole list of attacks here, but PKK has been organising terror attacks for the past 40 years and it's responsible for thousands of deaths, including teachers, nurses, doctors, engineers. They actively targeted people in many different cities including Istanbul.
bbc.com/news/world-europe-38276794 is one of many.

- How long do you think Turkish people can stand this horror? Especially, when EU and US have been supporting this whole organisation for decades. It's Turkey's right as a state (not as Erdogan or some other megalomaniac) to keep its country safe & secure when there is no one else to help the country.

4. Turkey should do everything to keep the ISIS jails / prisoners under control. Those monsters should be left where they used to be. Turkey was attacked by the same terrorist organisation (and had hundreds of casualties) multiple times in the past. See a list of them here: independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/a-timeline-of-bomb-attacks-in-turkey-between-2015-2016-a6879841.html

- Why would Turkey go there to free ISIS in the first place? So that it can get attacked in the future once again?

5. There is a clear separation between Kurds vs PKK/other terrorist organisations Turkish army is fighting against. The war is against these terrorist groups who have caused terror and instability in Turkey & northern Iraq / Syria. Turkey was pushed aside by EU / US and was left to do this work alone.

6. Erdogan is loosing his support in the country - he lost all of the major cities in the last elections to the opposition and people are waking up. While the operation to northern Syria is a necessity for country's security, people argue that the same operation will guarantee him a win in the next election (snap election is on paper) - Population in Turkey will usually follow the Turkish army but not the politicians. Do not be surprised if you see people who hate Erdogan / current government but support the army's operation.

Montage of Feck · 12-10-2019 11:03pm

crashadder wrote: »

I think Turkey should admit the Armenian genocide . They should also send all the Armenians living large in Turkey to Armenia.
genocide of Greeks is unheard of though. Thats hilarious.

Very funny indeed, maybe Google the Great fire of Smyrna, ~100,000 dead.

K.Flyer · 13-10-2019 12:36am

crashadder wrote: »

YPG(aka PKK) you prefer seeing in power have killed more than 30.000 people in Turkey. (google if you want) some of them were babies women teenagers... I understand you dont care since it wasnt you who got hurt but Turkey has every right to put an end to this and thats exactly what they are doing.

Turkish governments since it formed a republic have carried out several massacres on the Kurdish people.
For almost a century after the Kurds rose against the Turks, who were trying to eradicate Kurdish culture, tens of thousands of Kurds were killed, including women, children and the elderly.
See Turkification of Kurds, Dersim Massacre and Zilan Massacre to see how Kurds have been treated by Turkey.

blueshade · 13-10-2019 12:12pm

How many journalists and dissenters who spoke out about Erdogan are still in prison? That failed ''coup'' looked like a very convenient way of rounding up and imprisoning people Erdogan wanted silenced. The Americans are tired of the thankless job of being the world police. What's Europe going to do about it? Fook all is the answer to that.

igCorcaigh · 13-10-2019 6:14pm

Syrian army reported to be moving north to meet Turkish forces. From what I can see on twitter.

https://twitter.com/lummideast/status/1183430563933380610?s=19

igCorcaigh · 13-10-2019 6:17pm

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1183430456437555201?s=19

TheValeyard · 13-10-2019 6:34pm

Be interesting to see if any Russian forces are in the mix. I doubt it though, although they may simply provide logistics.

I doubt Syrian forces would engage Turkish forces but rather sieze territory from under fire Kurdish forces and create a new territorial boundary

Limpy · 13-10-2019 6:36pm

Yankies out...that's all that's happening here. (Convenient for both).

Syrian army moving to face Turkish aggression really means taking back control of Kurd occupied land before the Jihadi's do.

igCorcaigh · 13-10-2019 6:36pm

TheValeyard wrote: »

Be interesting to see if any Russian forces are in the mix. I doubt it though, although they may simply provide logistics.

I doubt Syrian forces would engage Turkish forces but rather sieze territory from under fire Kurdish forces and create a new territorial boundary

They may even have made a deal with Turkey?

Gatling · 13-10-2019 6:47pm

TheValeyard wrote: »

Be interesting to see if any Russian forces are in the mix. I doubt it though, although they may simply provide logistics.

I doubt Syrian forces would engage Turkish forces but rather sieze territory from under fire Kurdish forces and create a new territorial boundary

You can bet the russians will be involved from directing artillery and airstrikes ,be interesting to see if Syria or Russia will risk aircraft going against Turkish forces they tend not to like working against forces who can hold their own

Gatling · 13-10-2019 7:03pm

igCorcaigh wrote: »

They may even have made a deal with Turkey?

This is a distinct possibility too ,kurds loose everything to the turks and putinassad

Gatling · 13-10-2019 7:43pm

Civilian convoy targeted 10 dead so far including aidworkers and EU journalists injured

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/breaking-at-least-10-dead-20572844

ToBeFrank123 · 13-10-2019 7:52pm

crashadder wrote: »

YPG(aka PKK) you prefer seeing in power have killed more than 30.000 people in Turkey. (google if you want) some of them were babies women teenagers... I understand you dont care since it wasnt you who got hurt but Turkey has every right to put an end to this and thats exactly what they are doing.

And Turkey killed 1.5 million in Armenia.

The Kurds were a buffer keeping ISIS from attacking Turkey.

A couple years from now the Turks may regret this if ISIS make a comeback which they likely will.

There's no winners from this invasion except maybe ISIS.

YFlyer · 13-10-2019 7:54pm

Rvsmmnps wrote: »

Where did you learn this?

Which one?

YFlyer · 13-10-2019 7:57pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

And Turkey killed 1.5 million in Armenia.

The Kurds were a buffer keeping ISIS from attacking Turkey.

A couple years from now the Turks may regret this if ISIS make a comeback which they likely will.

There's no winners from this invasion except maybe ISIS.

Most have a short or selected memory.

RandomName2 · 13-10-2019 7:57pm

igCorcaigh wrote: »

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1183430456437555201?s=19

This is an interesting development.

So the question will be: will the Turks back down like they did last time? The last time the main objective was Afrin (which they entirely conquered) so abandoning towns like Kobani and Manbij this time round seems a lot more unlikely. Also last time the Turks were at least trying to have some veneer of respectability.

igCorcaigh · 13-10-2019 8:08pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

This is an interesting development.

So the question will be: will the Turks back down like they did last time? The last time the main objective was Afrin (which they entirely conquered) so abandoning towns like Kobani and Manbij this time round seems a lot more unlikely. Also last time the Turks were at least trying to have some veneer of respectability.

If kurds make a deal with Syrian government forces to occupy a buffer zone, perhaps Turkey might agree to that.

https://twitter.com/Josiensor/status/1183418866237616129?s=19

igCorcaigh · 13-10-2019 8:20pm

igCorcaigh wrote: »

If kurds make a deal with Syrian government forces to occupy a buffer zone, perhaps Turkey might agree to that.

https://twitter.com/Josiensor/status/1183418866237616129?s=19

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1183462109121785866?s=19

Gatling · 13-10-2019 8:20pm

igCorcaigh wrote: »

If kurds make a deal with Syrian government forces to occupy a buffer zone, perhaps Turkey might agree to that.

Unfortunately the Assad regime boyed by putin an co will see this as an opportunity to get revenge on the Kurds for taking their lands , turkey wants the Kurds eliminated once and for all this isn't about humanitarian efforts ,
The Kurds were the closest they have come to their own state ,if erdokan gets his way he will push millions of displaced people on to the Kurds territory backed by various pro Turkish militias.

Reports from various sources suggest all US military forces have left northern Syria after Turkish artillery strikes close to their bases

igCorcaigh · 13-10-2019 8:27pm

Gatling wrote: »

Unfortunately the Assad regime boyed by putin an co will see this as an opportunity to get revenge on the Kurds for taking their lands , turkey wants the Kurds eliminated once and for all this isn't about humanitarian efforts ,
The Kurds were the closest they have come to their own state ,if erdokan gets his way he will push millions of displaced people on to the Kurds territory backed by various pro Turkish militias.

Reports from various sources suggest all US military forces have left northern Syria after Turkish artillery strikes close to their bases

The Kurds seem to think that Assad is a safer bet now, having been abandoned again by US. Big shifts in power going on.

igCorcaigh · 13-10-2019 8:34pm

Talk of a Russian supported no fly zone over NE Syria?

Gatling · 13-10-2019 8:42pm

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Talk of a Russian supported no fly zone over NE Syria?

Just as the NY times are running a story saying they can prove that the Russian military directly targeted civilian hospitals thorougout Syria ,

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/13/world/middleeast/russia-bombing-syrian-hospitals.html

Kurds are caught between 3 despotic leaders who will do anything to win.

Wonder if we will see chemical weapons attacks

anotherfinemess · 14-10-2019 7:16am

We can lend the kurds a hand by boycotting turkish products. Here we buy a lot of Beko stuff. Beko is owned by a turkish company named Arcelik (pron Arslik, no kidding), whose majority owner is a turk named Koc (also not kidding).
Every time we buy a turkish product we contribute to the turkish arsenal that is killing kurds and freeing the turkish funded Daesh from prisons.

sk8erboii · 14-10-2019 8:24am

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/13/kurds-agree-russian-brokered-plan-allow-assad-territory/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

LOL.

The US mediated a deal between Turkey and the Kurdish militias to dismantle Kurdish defenses along the border in exchange for US protection from Turkish aggression

The US then pulled out, and Trump personally gave Erdogan the green-light to invade Kurdish-held northern Syria.

Turkey then sends Turkish-backed Free Syrian Army (Yesterdays terrorists) to do their dirty work - slaughtering citizens in the streets.

Mortars and Turkish air support accidentally hit an ISIS prison and free everyone. https://www.businessinsider.com/syria-isis-relatives-fled-kurdish-camp-after-turkish-airstrike-2019-10?r=US&IR=T

Now Syria has allied with Russia and Trump is threatening to sanction Turkey.

Not only does the US lose an ally, (two if Turkey is sanctioned) but Russia now has casus belli to invade. Putin is the only one benefitting from this entire sh*te.

The Kurds got shafted by Trump big time. Massive diplomatic repercussions down the line.

nthclare · 14-10-2019 10:04am

This has turned into the ultimate script, who would have thought the Kurds and Assad would help each other out.

When the Syrians and Turk's are within firing distance, it'll be basically NATO technology vs Russian tech....

If this materialises I think the Russian war machine is going to obliterate what the Turk's have....

More than likely the Turkish plane's will also be shot out of the Sky...

It's like a movie

crashadder · 14-10-2019 10:10am

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

And Turkey killed 1.5 million in Armenia.

in Armenia ? When was that ?

ToBeFrank123 · 14-10-2019 10:15am

crashadder wrote: »

in Armenia ? When was that ?

I don't know, you tell me. You are the guy going back decades to find a reason not to support someone.

Where do you want to draw the line?

You are just spouting pro Turkish propaganda.

The Kurds are a huge improvement on ISIS. Their treatment of ISIS prisoners is impressive, given how ISIS treated Kurd pows.

Beta Ray Bill · 14-10-2019 10:19am

crashadder wrote: »

in Armenia ? When was that ?

It began in 1915 when Turkey was called the Ottoman Empire.
between 700,000 and 1.5 million were killed.
There is a memorial in Christ Church in Dublin.

Turkey still deny the genocide happened til this day.

sk8erboii wrote: »

The US then pulled out, and Trump personally gave Erdogan the green-light to invade Kurdish-held northern Syria.

America gave Sadam the green-light to invade Kuwait in 1990.
But then they double crossed him.

It's no secret that the US and Europe are fed up with Turkey.

FTA69 · 14-10-2019 10:21am

I wouldn't even bother arguing with the Turkish bots who have popped up on this site. Turkey and their jihadi mates are trying to set the scene for a massive program of ethnic cleansing in northern Syria, we should do everything we can to oppose them.

crashadder · 14-10-2019 10:41am

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

It began in 1915 when Turkey was called the Ottoman Empire.
between 700,000 and 1.5 million were killed.
There is a memorial in Christ Church in Dublin.

Turkey still deny the genocide happened til this day.

America gave Sadam the green-light to invade Kuwait in 1990.
But then they double crossed him.

It's no secret that the US and Europe are fed up with Turkey.

So Turkey invaded Armenia and killed 1.5 millions ? is that how its happened ?

crashadder · 14-10-2019 11:23am

FTA69 wrote: »

I wouldn't even bother arguing with the Turkish bots who have popped up on this site. Turkey and their jihadi mates are trying to set the scene for a massive program of ethnic cleansing in northern Syria, we should do everything we can to oppose them.

I am not a bot .Why bother in an Irish message board. LOL .
I think it is easier to believe what you want to believe because you are biased. Turkey is home to 4 million Syrian refugees. 10 % are Syrian Kurds. i repeat Syrian Kurds. 19% of the Turkeys population are Kurds. I repeat. Kurds. They are inseparable in Turkey. How is this an ethnic cleansing then ?

crashadder · 14-10-2019 11:28am

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

It's no secret that the US and Europe are fed up with Turkey.

Is Europe fed up with the US and UK ? is Europe fed up with Israel ?

Boggles · 14-10-2019 11:28am

anotherfinemess wrote: »

We can lend the kurds a hand by boycotting turkish products. Here we buy a lot of Beko stuff. Beko is owned by a turkish company named Arcelik (pron Arslik, no kidding), whose majority owner is a turk named Koc (also not kidding).
Every time we buy a turkish product we contribute to the turkish arsenal that is killing kurds and freeing the turkish funded Daesh from prisons.

I wouldn't buy Beko in a fit anyway.

But they do sponsor Barcelona and Premier league.

I mean I feel for sorry for the Kurds but fúck that.

crashadder · 14-10-2019 11:36am

anotherfinemess wrote: »

We can lend the kurds a hand by boycotting turkish products. Here we buy a lot of Beko stuff. Beko is owned by a turkish company named Arcelik (pron Arslik, no kidding), whose majority owner is a turk named Koc (also not kidding).
Every time we buy a turkish product we contribute to the turkish arsenal that is killing kurds and freeing the turkish funded Daesh from prisons.

you could have lent that hand the Kurds when they fled Saddams genocide. Turkish president at that time (Kurdish descent btw) asked Europe to share the responsibility of the Kurdish refugees with Turkey but got refused. but yeah Turkey hates Kurds

FTA69 · 14-10-2019 11:38am

crashadder wrote: »

So Turkey invaded Armenia and killed 1.5 millions ? is that how its happened ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

For anyone interested in the Armenian Genocide, this is the crime against humanity the Turkish bot above is attempting to justify. A helpless people burned en masse, drowned in the sea and the river and also marched into the desert and left to die of thirst.

crashadder · 14-10-2019 11:48am

FTA69 wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

For anyone interested in the Armenian Genocide, this is the crime against humanity the Turkish bot above is attempting to justify. A helpless people burned en masse, drowned in the sea and the river and also marched into the desert and left to die of thirst.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/ireland-not-recognising-armenian-massacres-as-genocide-1.2185236

I am not trying to justify anything. All i am trying to say is that it didnt happen the way you claim it happened. Turkey is definitely responsible for the death of those people and should pay for it. But just because Ottoman Empire committed such crime 100 years ago doesnt mean Turkey is trying to do the same thing in Syria with Kurds today. god. this is unbelievable. Erdogans wife is Kurdish / Arab. ffs . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emine_Erdo%C4%9Fan

14-10-2019 12:04pm

crashadder wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/ireland-not-recognising-armenian-massacres-as-genocide-1.2185236

I am not trying to justify anything. All i am trying to say is that it didnt happen the way you claim it happened. Turkey is definitely responsible for the death of those people and should pay for it. But just because Ottoman Empire committed such crime 100 years ago doesnt mean Turkey is trying to do the same thing in Syria with Kurds today. god. this is unbelievable. Erdogans wife is Kurdish / Arab. ffs . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emine_Erdo%C4%9Fan

So what exactly are Turkey doing? Air strikes and ground troops doesn’t sound like a discussion with their Kurdish brethren on how best to rehome Syrian refugees.

crashadder · 14-10-2019 12:24pm

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

So what exactly are Turkey doing? Air strikes and ground troops doesn’t sound like a discussion with their Kurdish brethren on how best to rehome Syrian refugees.

Turkey wants to create a safe zone 30 km in Syrian border because YPG (a branch of PKK) have been equipped by US significant amount of arms. This is a great threat to Turkeys national security. This pro Kurdish terrorist group were established to fight and separate Turkey. Nobody gets killed if they leave the area or surrender. They have been killing in Turkey since 1987. suicide bombings, arson, abductions you name it. Last year they executed a police officer in front of his pregnant wife in broad day light. and if you are against the Turkish offensive in the region you are basically suggesting that we should instead carry on getting killed regularly and live in fear that a bomb might go off when we are in a busy area. The most important item in Turkeys agenda is not rehoming Syrians. Its national security. Who do you think YPG will target next once the fight with ISIS is over and they have all those weapons ?

K.Flyer · 14-10-2019 12:40pm

crashadder wrote: »

19% of the Turkeys population are Kurds. I repeat. Kurds. They are inseparable in Turkey

Really, not really sure where you get that from.

Human rights of Kurdish people in Turkey

Kurds have had a long history of discrimination and massacres perpetrated against them by the Turkish government. Massacres have periodically occurred against the Kurds since the establishment of the Republic of Turkey in 1923

The conflict between the Turkish Republic and Kurds almost 100 years ago was started by the Turkish government. The Kurds pushed back against them and the Turkish military slaughtered tens of thousands of Kurds.

crashadder · 14-10-2019 1:15pm

K.Flyer wrote: »

Really, not really sure where you get that from.

Human rights of Kurdish people in Turkey

So it is ok to kill innocent people when you feel like your human rights are violated ? hmm catalans should do the same then ? oh wait . IRA. they are legit then ? btw Kurdish issues in Turkey is one thing, what PKK (YPG) wants is another thing. They want land. They kill Kurdish ppl in the area because they wouldn't help them. Kurdish teenagers are summoned to join PKK. if they dont they suffer the consequences .

K.Flyer · 14-10-2019 2:55pm

crashadder wrote: »

So it is ok to kill innocent people when you feel like your human rights are violated ? hmm catalans should do the same then ? oh wait . IRA. they are legit then ? btw Kurdish issues in Turkey is one thing, what PKK (YPG) wants is another thing. They want land. They kill Kurdish ppl in the area because they wouldn't help them. Kurdish teenagers are summoned to join PKK. if they dont they suffer the consequences .

Nope, that's not what I said.
I was just pointing out some very interesting history pertaining to the conflict between Turkey and the Kurds, how it started, who started it and why it continues.

lleti · 14-10-2019 3:32pm

Must be hard to devote ones time to all the protests.

I've got climate protests, Trump protests, China protests, Brazil protests, Hong Kong protests and now this. Not sure I can devote myself full time to the old slactivism.

You're better off not worrying about these things. You can't impact it.

Odhinn · 14-10-2019 3:43pm

crashadder wrote: »

I am not a bot .Why bother in an Irish message board. LOL .
I think it is easier to believe what you want to believe because you are biased. Turkey is home to 4 million Syrian refugees. 10 % are Syrian Kurds. i repeat Syrian Kurds. 19% of the Turkeys population are Kurds. I repeat. Kurds. They are inseparable in Turkey. How is this an ethnic cleansing then ?

If they're inseparable why have they a number of large seperation movements? The craic?

crashadder · 14-10-2019 5:07pm

Odhinn wrote: »

If they're inseparable why have they a number of large seperation movements? The craic?

I dont know really. I remember at least 2 presidents that of Kurdish descent. So that means they can reach that level in the country. there are many wealthy Kurdish business ppl in Turkey ask them if they want separation

Odhinn · 14-10-2019 5:31pm

crashadder wrote: »

I dont know really. ...........

Here's a hint - its not because they're "inseparable".

"Authorities have refused to release a political prisoner despite the completion of her seven-year sentence at a prison in the northwestern province of Kocaeli on the grounds that she sang a song in Kurdish. "
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/prisoner-remains-in-jail-for-singing-kurdish-song--15370

https://web.archive.org/web/20070930181201/http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=115171&bolum=109

https://www.hrw.org/reports/2005/turkey0305/3.htm#_Toc97005223

crashadder · 14-10-2019 9:34pm

Odhinn wrote: »

Here's a hint - its not because they're "inseparable".

"Authorities have refused to release a political prisoner despite the completion of her seven-year sentence at a prison in the northwestern province of Kocaeli on the grounds that she sang a song in Kurdish. "
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/prisoner-remains-in-jail-for-singing-kurdish-song--15370

https://web.archive.org/web/20070930181201/http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=115171&bolum=109

https://www.hrw.org/reports/2005/turkey0305/3.htm#_Toc97005223

I dont really see the correlation here. Its not only Kurds. Erdogan himself did time in jail for reading a poem in a public address. How about that ? https://amara.org/en/videos/ShIyp0uVT9AC/info/tayyip-erdogan-poem-that-landed-him-in-jail/

crashadder · 14-10-2019 11:02pm

accusing Turkey over ISIS is quite shallow too. between 2014 and 2017, 304 ppl killed in Turkey due to ISIS terror attacks. Turkey fought against ISIS in the previous cross border campaign and lost 74 soldiers . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Euphrates_Shield

Fattybojangles · 15-10-2019 9:17am

The Kurds have done the only sensible thing they could do and have allied to the Syrian Arab Army and returned to the fold as Syrians and hopefully as an allied force will defeat Turkey's head hacking terrorists. The Syrian Arab Army is on course to liberate every inch of Syrian soil.

nthclare · 15-10-2019 9:23am

Does anyone think there will be a confrontation between the Turkish army and Syrian army ?

Who'll capitulate ?

Or will it be two opposing army's slogging it out ?

Turkish forces have started bombing and attacking Kurdish people in Syria

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