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15-04-2019, 14:06   #16
Grayson
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Yeah - the politics of Islam
How is it that when the OP specifically mentions Romania you jump to islam.

Antisemitism in europe has been a problem for hundreds of years. It caused the industrialised killing of millions. There's a photo of a graveyard with swastikas in it. Yet you and others are willing to ignore all this so you can grind your own personal axes against islam. And laugh whilst doing it.
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15-04-2019, 14:17   #17
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Modern day anti-semitism is based on history and conspiracy theories.

Jewish people wouldn't convert and accept the "true religion" - therefore they were "christ killers". They continued on this tradition (allegedly) by stealing christian children and drinking their blood.

Jewish people weren't accepted into mainstream living - therefore they were "different","strange", "untrustworthy". They kept to themselves!

Jewish people were barred from owning land or the professions - they had to make a living from making things and trading. Therefore they were money-grabbers.

Banking and lending for money was banned as sinful for Christians up until the 16th century. People borrowed instead from Jews - therefore they were usurers who sucked out your money through interest.

Jewish people always had to be ready to flee when the next pogram began - therefore they are transient, strangers, foreigners, etc.

Things aren't going so well in society - crop failures, economic slump, war etc? Well blame the Jews - they are evil outsiders after all.

The "theories" and conspiracies change with time - but anti-semitism remains the same.
don't forget their ability to control the entire capitalist system and at the same time be behind the Bolshevist conspiracy to destroy the capitalist system
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15-04-2019, 14:19   #18
markodaly
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Anti-Semitism is rife in certain left-wing circles. Just look at the trouble the Labor party in the UK are having with it. The party is infested with it.
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15-04-2019, 14:21   #19
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I agree the rise of anti-semitism is very disturbing.
It seems to come from many directions too, the right, the left, the muslims, the conspiracy theorists.
Even people I know are "Jews did 911" which is causing some friction between us.
This is what I'm seeing too. As much as people want to use the persecution of jews to have a go at the left, the right, muslims or whichever crowd they want point the finger at, the fact is that anti-semitism isn't just coming from one ideology; it's coming from many different and ideologically opposed groups.
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15-04-2019, 14:22   #20
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It was in the news a few days ago about how one of the top Identitarians, the definitely not a neo-nazi Martin Sellner, was arrested for defacing a synagogue with a swastika years ago

But of course its not just the right, at least in England some of the comments I read quoted in relation to the current Labour scandal were despicable, and the lack of a response disgraceful.
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15-04-2019, 14:23   #21
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Anti-Semitism is rife in certain left-wing circles. Just look at the trouble the Labor party in the UK are having with it. The party is infested with it.
This is nonsense. There is "drawing swastikas on graves" anti-Semitism and the newly defined by Netenyahu & Co "criticising Israel as an oppressive apartheid regime" anti-Semitism. The issues of the *Labour party relate to the second one.
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15-04-2019, 14:30   #22
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Anti-Semitism is bad and the Holocaust was a horrific event that I still find hard to get to grips with. The scale of it is harrowing.

Now, I'm not having a go at the OP or anyone and I hope even the knee-jerk moralistas can understand what I'm about to say:

Highlighting this just comes across as another fashionable trend for people to signal their own ostensibly righteous virtues.
I find it frustrating because it's all talk and no action and it cheapens the seriousness of the issues raised.
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15-04-2019, 14:36   #23
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I love the way when antisemitism is mentioned, there's always a goodly constituency of people who rock up and try to shoehorn it into their own pet agenda.

"It's the muslims"
"It's the left"
"It's the right".

FFS. Are you only interested in it if it's your own personal bogeymen who're responsible?
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15-04-2019, 14:39   #24
Grayson
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This is what I'm seeing too. As much as people want to use the persecution of jews to have a go at the left, the right, muslims or whichever crowd they want point the finger at, the fact is that anti-semitism isn't just coming from one ideology; it's coming from many different and ideologically opposed groups.
Yep as can be seen with the anti semitism issues in the UK labour party. Now I think there have been a few who are overblowing the extent of it in Labour. And they're doing it for political reasons. But I also believe that there is a real problem with antisemitism in the labour party. It's far worse with some far left groups.

Antisemitism is something that draws support from the far left and far right. It's one of the few things they have in common.
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15-04-2019, 14:43   #25
riffmongous
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Anti-Semitism is bad and the Holocaust was a horrific event that I still find hard to get to grips with. The scale of it is harrowing.

Now, I'm not having a go at the OP or anyone and I hope even the knee-jerk moralistas can understand what I'm about to say:

Highlighting this just comes across as another fashionable trend for people to signal their own ostensibly righteous virtues.
I find it frustrating because it's all talk and no action and it cheapens the seriousness of the issues raised.
I disagree, even just talking about it here and highlighting that it's still an issue helps stops a slow creep of normalisation of anti semitism and covert anti semitic tropes that are common online ( Soros as the the big bad jew, denial of Israel's right to exist framed as anti-zionism). If Labour had kept in mind how serious it is and why it needs to be dealt with they wouldn't be having such a huge scandal now (although their opponents would still be trying)
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15-04-2019, 14:46   #26
Grayson
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This is nonsense. There is "drawing swastikas on graves" anti-Semitism and the newly defined by Netenyahu & Co "criticising Israel as an oppressive apartheid regime" anti-Semitism. The issues of the *Labour party relate to the second one.
I don't think so. I've very much anti netanyahu. I think his right wing populism is despicable. And I do have problems with the state of israel but I do realise that being jewish or even israeli does not mean that a person shares any blame for that.

And although those guys in labour would distance themselves from the nazi's I think most of their antisemitism comes from the same place. Sure they wouldn't deface something with a swastika but they still believe the ame conspiracy crap that the neo nazi's believe.
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15-04-2019, 14:50   #27
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This is nonsense. There is "drawing swastikas on graves" anti-Semitism and the newly defined by Netenyahu & Co "criticising Israel as an oppressive apartheid regime" anti-Semitism. The issues of the *Labour party relate to the second one.
Ah, and there is also a rise of this type of bull **** excusing outright anti-Semitism when one of your own gets accused of it.
This type of reaction is just as bad as some yob painting a swastika on grave because they should really know better.

There are numerous examples of this, from Ken Livingstone 'Hitler was a Zionist' to Corbyn possing beside a mural depicting classic anti Semitic tropes, which he defended.

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15-04-2019, 14:53   #28
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For some reason, all the ills of the world originated with the Rothschild.
There is still a veneer of this Jewish anti-banker/anti-capitalist behind some of the left wing politics we see today.
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15-04-2019, 14:53   #29
riffmongous
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I don't think so. I've very much anti netanyahu. I think his right wing populism is despicable. And I do have problems with the state of israel but I do realise that being jewish or even israeli does not mean that a person shares any blame for that.

And although those guys in labour would distance themselves from the nazi's I think most of their antisemitism comes from the same place. Sure they wouldn't deface something with a swastika but they still believe the ame conspiracy crap that the neo nazi's believe.
I don't think Bibi is doing many favours in the long run either for the Jewish people with his courting of extreme evangelical groups
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15-04-2019, 14:57   #30
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I disagree, even just talking about it here and highlighting that it's still an issue helps stops a slow creep of normalisation of anti semitism and covert anti semitic tropes that are common online ( Soros as the the big bad jew, denial of Israel's right to exist framed as anti-zionism). If Labour had kept in mind how serious it is and why it needs to be dealt with they wouldn't be having such a huge scandal now (although their opponents would still be trying)
We're in disagreement on that then.
I would say that the constant nonactive highlighting of issues has the effect of indifference on the general population. Even the outrage brigade tire themselves out eventually.

I do agree in the casual anti-Semitic language being casually more prevalent but would also add that it's not only Jewish people being maligned.
However that will move this too much off topic so I'll leave it there.
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