Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

Options
1…102103105107108…311

Comments

  • Options
    #3122
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,499 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    https://twitter.com/DPhinnemore/status/1180511331029585927

    Netherlands now saying EU will not accept any agreement that puts a customs border on the island of Ireland.


  • Options
    #3123
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,166 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/BenChu_/status/1180504684534079490

    Depends how long UK economy could stutter on with ever more tightly restricted access to EU markets...
    It's kind of ironic that 'no deal is better than a bad deal' is turning out to be much more appropriate to us than the UK.


  • Options
    #3124
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,499 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    It's kind of ironic that 'no deal is better than a bad deal' is turning out to be much more appropriate to us than the UK.

    The EU has come out now and told Johnson a customs border on land is unacceptable. They are not even discussing it.

    Now finally he has the choice he was always going to have to make - the DUP or a deal.

    He has to make that choice within the next few days.


  • Options
    #3125
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,802 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    Thomas Cook collapsed because of a failed merger and associated legacy debt, Brexit had little to do with it tbh.

    Not everything can be pinned on Brexit.
    Brexit didn't help.
    Sterling drop didn't help.
    UK economic stagnation didn't help.
    Uncertainty didn't help, they aren't the only UK company finding it hard to get credit.

    German branch bailed out by German govt, which undermines much of Mr Corbyn's reason to leave, that the EU prevents giving state aid to companies.


  • Options
    #3126
    Jizique
    Registered Users Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Jizique


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    It's kind of ironic that 'no deal is better than a bad deal' is turning out to be much more appropriate to us than the UK.

    Also ironic that “Billy of Orange” is not supporting the UVF/UDA/DUP


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #3127
    Jizique
    Registered Users Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Jizique


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/BenChu_/status/1180504684534079490


    Depends how long UK economy could stutter on with ever more tightly restricted access to EU markets...

    Telegraph reporting from Wolfsburg - German car industry about to ride to rescue


  • Options
    #3128
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Are the Irish Times on something?

    Brexit: EU prepared to accept two customs territories on island of Ireland

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/brexit-eu-prepared-to-accept-two-customs-territories-on-island-of-ireland-1.4040541

    This article suggests the EU are taking this nonsense seriously.


  • Options
    #3129
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,499 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Are the Irish Times on something?

    Brexit: EU prepared to accept two customs territories on island of Ireland

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/brexit-eu-prepared-to-accept-two-customs-territories-on-island-of-ireland-1.4040541

    This article suggests the EU are taking this nonsense seriously.

    That article is from 17 hours ago?

    Latest is that the EU won't accept any customs border and are not even discussing it.

    Anything could be happening behind the scenes though.

    Can't see the article though...


  • Options
    #3130
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Are the Irish Times on something?

    Brexit: EU prepared to accept two customs territories on island of Ireland

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/brexit-eu-prepared-to-accept-two-customs-territories-on-island-of-ireland-1.4040541

    This article suggests the EU are taking this nonsense seriously.
    That piece is a day old, an eternity in things Brexit! I find myself deferring to Tony Connelly for the latest on all of this.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2019/1005/1081246-tony-connelly-brexit/


  • Options
    #3131
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    That article is from 17 hours ago?

    Latest is that the EU won't accept any customs border and are not even discussing it.

    Anything could be happening behind the scenes though.

    Can't see the article though...
    is_that_so wrote: »
    That piece is a day old, an eternity in things Brexit! I find myself deferring to Tony Connelly for the latest on all of this.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2019/1005/1081246-tony-connelly-brexit/

    That is no excuse for printing such arrant nonsense. At no time was there a chance of the EU or Ireland were prepared to even discuss this.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #3132
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Are the Irish Times on something?

    Brexit: EU prepared to accept two customs territories on island of Ireland

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/brexit-eu-prepared-to-accept-two-customs-territories-on-island-of-ireland-1.4040541

    This article suggests the EU are taking this nonsense seriously.

    Yeah they are, on the British Governments payroll as they always have been.


  • Options
    #3133
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,166 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Bambi wrote: »
    Yeah they are, on the British Governments payroll as they always have been.
    Fintan O'Toole mustn't be sharing in the payout


  • Options
    #3134
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    maebee wrote: »
    It's unforgivable that she should say it's 'not sacrosanct".

    We shouldn't forget that they considered the GFA a capitulation and did their utmost to collapse the talks that led to it. Make no mistake about it, there's an element within unionism that'd like nothing more than a big Israeli style, militarised, border wall driven through Ulster.


  • Options
    #3135
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,499 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    This came up on my feed and I thought "Fintan's gone off on one again..."

    It's actually in the NYT

    https://twitter.com/SiCarswell/status/1180550206590504960


  • Options
    #3136
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Movement ? What to discuss if the EU have said it’s unworkable?

    https://twitter.com/jennifer_bray/status/1180553686440972290?s=21


  • Options
    #3137
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,499 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    Movement ? What to discuss if the EU have said it’s unworkable?

    https://twitter.com/jennifer_bray/status/1180553686440972290?s=21

    A united Ireland?

    or

    A referendum in the north possibly?

    or

    Britain accepting the backstop?

    B or C most likely.


    I take it Boris will be summoned to Dublin again? We can't be seen going over there anymore :pac:


  • Options
    #3138
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,238 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Brexit didn't help.
    Sterling drop didn't help.
    UK economic stagnation didn't help.
    Uncertainty didn't help, they aren't the only UK company finding it hard to get credit.

    German branch bailed out by German govt, which undermines much of Mr Corbyn's reason to leave, that the EU prevents giving state aid to companies.
    It didn't help, but it wasn't the cause either. In May, Thomas Cook posted a £1.5 billion half-year loss, £1.1bn of which was caused by the decision to write down the value of My Travel, the business it merged with in 2007. That firm nearly collapsed in 2011 but was bailed out by the banks, which left Thomas Cook with a debt burden of £1.7bn
    Earlier this year Flybmi, Germany's Germania and Iceland's Wow Air went bust. The year prior, it was Monarch Airlines and Air Berlin amongst others. France's Aigle Azur and XL Airways are both seeking rescue deals at the moment.
    Is that all Brexit or does it point to oversupply and consolidation in the travel sector?

    The desire to pin everything bad in the UK to Brexit undermines the credibility of those arguing against it.


  • Options
    #3139
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    A united Ireland?

    or

    A referendum in the north possibly?

    or

    Britain accepting the backstop?

    B or C most likely.


    I take it Boris will be summoned to Dublin again? We can't be seen going over there anymore :pac:


    Just watched that clip of Leo again. My jaw is still on the floor that he said reunification first in his list of five ways out of this.

    Unimaginable he’d even ever say this but he has.
    I’d add to your options.
    Border in the sea was one of Arlene’s blood red lines now she’s done a 180 on it. Make it a border in the sea do all of it and problem solved. No loss to Johnson trustee an election on anyways and he’ll sail through having delivered Brexit.

    https://twitter.com/passportirish/status/1180086791535235072?s=21


  • Options
    #3140
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,350 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    It didn't help, but it wasn't the cause either. In May, Thomas Cook posted a £1.5 billion half-year loss, £1.1bn of which was caused by the decision to write down the value of My Travel, the business it merged with in 2007. That firm nearly collapsed in 2011 but was bailed out by the banks, which left Thomas Cook with a debt burden of £1.7bn
    Earlier this year Flybmi, Germany's Germania and Iceland's Wow Air went bust. The year prior, it was Monarch Airlines and Air Berlin amongst others. France's Aigle Azur and XL Airways are both seeking rescue deals at the moment.
    Is that all Brexit or does it point to oversupply and consolidation in the travel sector?

    The desire to pin everything bad in the UK to Brexit undermines the credibility of those arguing against it.
    Thomas Cook had problems of their own, along with the afforementioned list of collapses of airlines across Europe over the last few years.

    However, it's also patently clear that Brexit is a signficant headwind to operations by any company in the UK, let alone one that was borderline viable anyway. General economic uncertainly along with a sharp decline in the value of Sterling are the difference between above and below water.

    Thomas Cook UK had substantial costs across Europe, the US and the Caribbean and a highly devalued currency is a major factor when it comes to profitability in that regard.


  • Options
    #3141
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,499 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Talks on brink of collapse according to tomorrow's Observer

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/05/michel-barnier-blame-boris-johnson-brexit-talks-eu-uk?CMP=share_btn_tw

    In what appeared to be the opening shots in a blame game as both sides sense failure, Barnier said he could not see how a deal could be done unless the British side came forward with revised proposals within days.

    If it refused to do so – and there was no deal as a result – this would be viewed by the EU as the deliberate choice of Boris Johnson’s government.

    “If they do not change, I do not believe, on the basis of the mandate I have been given by the EU27, that we can advance,” Barnier told an audience in Paris on Saturday.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #3142
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,150 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    Movement ? What to discuss if the EU have said it’s unworkable?

    https://twitter.com/jennifer_bray/status/1180553686440972290?s=21

    Don't think so, the EU already said yesterday that they told the UK they'd resume talks Monday if they had more detail.


  • Options
    #3143
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,488 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    What talks? What are they going on about?

    This proposal was as useful as Chequers, and as deaf to the actual requirements as it was.

    EU - here is a deal but if you can come up with a proposal that meets all the issues then we can talk.
    UK - here is a plan that goes against almost all of the issues and doesn't explain how anything would work.
    EU - ah, that's not what you were supposed to be working on. Are we really back at the very beginning?
    UK - why don't you listen to us. We tried really hard on this and we are under lots if pressure cause we made promises at home you know.


  • Options
    #3144
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,030 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Talks on brink of collapse according to tomorrow's Observer

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/05/michel-barnier-blame-boris-johnson-brexit-talks-eu-uk?CMP=share_btn_tw


    'Opening shots'???
    The UK have been blaming the EU since the 80's.


  • Options
    #3145
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Doesn’t say where. Leo can’t go to London. He better not.


    https://twitter.com/darranmarshall/status/1180566397572792321?s=21


  • Options
    #3146
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,499 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    From interview with Barnier in Observer
    Barnier says the proposals are not acceptable in anything like their current form. “If they do not change I do not believe, on the basis of the mandate I have been given by the EU27, that we can advance.”

    The differences over customs and borders went to the very heart of what the EU was. “We are a single market. That’s a complete ecosystem, with common rights, common norms, common standards, common rules, a common legal system. It requires checks at its borders.”


  • Options
    #3147
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,150 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Talks on brink of collapse according to tomorrow's Observer

    Like I said, the EU already said there's no basis for talks based on the UK's proposals, hence them all going home for the weekend. Come back next week if they want to try anything else.

    I'm sure it was mentioned sometime the last few days that Varadkar will meet Johnson next week so I don't know what the hype is about this.


  • Options
    #3148
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,499 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1180569395048992768

    There won't be any negotiation at the EU council.

    They want to be in a position to rubber stamp a deal.


  • Options
    #3149
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,488 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Barnier points out the very essence of the problem.

    The UK basically want to redefine what the EU is just for them, cheerypick.

    They understand very well the inherent benefits of the EU, but don't actually want to pay for any of it so would very much like to keep all the benefits for free.

    Since the EU will not accept that, they have decided to try to break open each of the EU pillars in order to basically create a new EU in the way that they want. Since they apparently couldn't achieve this while they were a senior member of the club it seems beyond crazy to think they will now be able to do it threatening to leave.

    On a totally separate point, listened to Brexitcast this morning and it really struck me that they, and much of the UK media, are simply parroting the line of "Deal or No Deal". They treat them as equals, as if either one has the same overall outcome to the UK.

    Nobody is even asking why Johnson and his government have set the conditions to exit without a deal and the issues, already acknowledged by the government itself, will entail. Just a quick laugh as if these are the only options left open.


  • Options
    #3150
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    Leroy42 wrote:
    Since the EU will not accept that, they have decided to try to break open each of the EU pillars in order to basically create a new EU in the way that they want. Since they apparently couldn't achieve this while they were a senior member of the club it seems beyond crazy to think they will now be able to do it threatening to leave.

    It's not really that crazy and it's been tried before(which actually makes it crazier in one sense). Greece tried it with Varakunios being the brainchild. And we all know how that turned out. Many political parties and high profile commentators during the last recession advocated essentially the same approach as Brexiters currently advocate and many would still feel Ireland rolled over during that period. And that's even with the benefit of hindsight as well.


    So I'd agree in one sense it's absolutely crazy however the approach of Brexiters isn't unique unfortunately. Versions of it have been tried before and will be tried again.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #3151
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,166 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    correct horse battery staple wrote: »
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisagarcia/2019/09/23/virgin-atlantic-steps-in-to-offer-jobs-to-displaced-thomas-cook-employees/

    Brexit very much was a factor in its collapse. The straw that broke camel's back.

    But hey maybe brexiters can blame diesel somehow.
    It had to be really. The drop in sterling for a company that must have been very exposed to currency fluctuations would have hurt their bottom line.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement