General sheep thread

White Clover · 21-11-2020 7:28pm

kk.man wrote: »

I beg to differ... I did V well this year a net profit of 45e average per hogget. That's not much better than the teagasc figures for lambing ewes and less hassle.

Was that profit from purchasing ewe lambs in Autumn 2019 and selling as hoggets in 2020, or selling Hoggets in 2020 and replacing with 2020 ewe lambs?

wrangler · 21-11-2020 7:35pm

kk.man wrote: »

I beg to differ... I did V well this year a net profit of 45e average per hogget. That's not much better than the teagasc figures for lambing ewes and less hassle.

This is a good year, €45/ewe would be what we'd be hoping for normally but it's near €70/ewe this year and a quarter of them are ewe lambs.

Young95 · 21-11-2020 8:01pm

wrangler wrote: »

This is a good year, €45/ewe would be what we'd be hoping for normally but it's near €70/ewe this year and a quarter of them are ewe lambs.

What do you think is key to profitability in sheep wrangler? Even at 45 a ewe I’d happily take that !!

kk.man · 21-11-2020 8:15pm

White Clover wrote: »

Was that profit from purchasing ewe lambs in Autumn 2019 and selling as hoggets in 2020, or selling Hoggets in 2020 and replacing with 2020 ewe lambs?

I bought replacements at slightly less than last year I was just lucky.

wrangler · 21-11-2020 9:11pm

Young95 wrote: »

What do you think is key to profitability in sheep wrangler? Even at 45 a ewe I’d happily take that !!

It's costing us nearly 100/ewe to get her through the year so it's vital to get as near to 2lambs/ewe as you can. I suppose that's the key, Getting lambs to near 30kg at weaning at 12 weeks too. most ewes are capable of doing that if they're fed right, farmers expect a 70kg ewe to hand them two 30 kg lambs at 12 weeks and yet skimp on the feeding pre and post lambing,
Our costs would be high,

farawaygrass · 22-11-2020 9:02am

wrangler wrote: »

It's costing us nearly 100/ewe to get her through the year so it's vital to get as near to 2lambs/ewe as you can. I suppose that's the key, Getting lambs to near 30kg at weaning at 12 weeks too. most ewes are capable of doing that if they're fed right, farmers expect a 70kg ewe to hand them two 30 kg lambs at 12 weeks and yet skimp on the feeding pre and post lambing,
Our costs would be high,

Are you including costs like farm insurance, machinery, diesel etc in that €100 figure?

wrangler · 22-11-2020 9:46am

farawaygrass wrote: »

Are you including costs like farm insurance, machinery, diesel etc in that €100 figure?

Fixed costs wouldn't be a lot , only 10% of the land is sheep so we put 10% of teh fixed costs against, the dash blew up on the tractor april 2019 ( under warranty) and there's only 80hrs on it since

Sales here was €15355,

Feed 4710
Straw 1050
fertiliser 715
vet 732
Total Variable costs €7207

Total fixed costs 900

That's around €84/ewe net profit, 7 ewes /acre.
We've 10 ewes less this year so about €1000 less closing stock so €70/ewe would be the truer figure
Plus about €3000 subs, it's alright for a hobby farm

arctictree · 22-11-2020 11:32am

wrangler wrote: »

Fixed costs wouldn't be a lot , only 10% of the land is sheep so we put 10% of teh fixed costs against, the dash blew up on the tractor april 2019 ( under warranty) and there's only 80hrs on it since

Sales here was €15355,

Feed 4710
Straw 1050
fertiliser 715
vet 732
Total Variable costs €7207

Total fixed costs 900

That's around €84/ewe net profit, 7 ewes /acre.
We've 10 ewes less this year so about €1000 less closing stock so €70/ewe would be the truer figure
Plus about €3000 subs, it's alright for a hobby farm

I've about a 50/50 split between fixed and variable costs. Off the top of my head, fixed costs include farm insurance, ESB, Jeep tax/insurance/doe/service, general fence/building maintenance etc...

Green farmer · 22-11-2020 12:31pm

arctictree wrote: »

I've about a 50/50 split between fixed and variable costs. Off the top of my head, fixed costs include farm insurance, ESB, Jeep tax/insurance/doe/service, general fence/building maintenance etc...

Quiet often lads forget about the big hidden costs, such as upgrading a tractor or a decent jeep. You get a good year or two in sheep and all the excess profits are reinvested on some machinery. Hidden things like a new quad bike can cost 8k.

wrangler · 22-11-2020 12:45pm

arctictree wrote: »

I've about a 50/50 split between fixed and variable costs. Off the top of my head, fixed costs include farm insurance, ESB, Jeep tax/insurance/doe/service, general fence/building maintenance etc...

We had farm walk here in 2012 and Darren Carthy did the Profit monitor for it, it worked out at gross margin of €936/ha, we had 10 ewes /ha at that time as we out wintered a lot of ewes so grass wasn't as good as now but the fixed costs were about €420ha (€42/ewe) which'd be truer picture, we're spending very little money now.
Outwintering 500 ewes was hardship and destroyed the ryegrasses

arctictree · 22-11-2020 12:47pm

Green farmer wrote: »

Quiet often lads forget about the big hidden costs, such as upgrading a tractor or a decent jeep. You get a good year or two in sheep and all the excess profits are reinvested on some machinery. Hidden things like a new quad bike can cost 8k.

Or the constant fencing! I'm at the stage where I have to start replacing the posts we put in 8 years ago. Easily need to put aside 3 or 4k a year.

Nekarsulm · 22-11-2020 3:26pm

arctictree wrote: »

Or the constant fencing! I'm at the stage where I have to start replacing the posts we put in 8 years ago. Easily need to put aside 3 or 4k a year.

Was up in Fermanagh yesterday, and two guys were starting to fence roadside field about 100 yards long with a quad and a smallish Hitachi.
Coming back 3 hours later job done and gone.
Looked great, high tensile sheep wire and a row of barbed.
Posts about 12 feet apart.
Problem was, they were ordinary white posts; be lucky if they aren't back in 5 years doing it again.

Young95 · 22-11-2020 4:36pm

wrangler wrote: »

We had farm walk here in 2012 and Darren Carthy did the Profit monitor for it, it worked out at gross margin of €936/ha, we had 10 ewes /ha at that time as we out wintered a lot of ewes so grass wasn't as good as now but the fixed costs were about €420ha (€42/ewe) which'd be truer picture, we're spending very little money now.
Outwintering 500 ewes was hardship and destroyed the ryegrasses

When you say out wintering were you giving them a daily allocation of grass up to lambing or just once the grass was all gone you were haling meal and silege out to ewes ?

wrangler · 22-11-2020 5:06pm

Young95 wrote: »

When you say out wintering were you giving them a daily allocation of grass up to lambing or just once the grass was all gone you were haling meal and silege out to ewes ?

Ewes went in in early february and ewe lambs in early march, both about a month before lambing. we spread nitrogen early september and block grazed from december on, we never fed outside. The year it didn't work we built the tunnel. Grass didn't grow in the autumn and land was very wet, tunnel was built in three weeks

Ard_MC · 22-11-2020 6:48pm

wrangler wrote: »

Ewes went in in early february and ewe lambs in early march, both about a month before lambing. we spread nitrogen early september and block grazed from december on, we never fed outside. The year it didn't work we built the tunnel. Grass didn't grow in the autumn and land was very wet, tunnel was built in three weeks

Would you be without the tunnel now? Toying with the idea myself. But say it will next year before I get to it.

wrangler · 22-11-2020 7:34pm

Ard_MC wrote: »

Would you be without the tunnel now? Toying with the idea myself. But say it will next year before I get to it.

Tunnel was a great job, but there's a couple reasons why it suited me,
1. I was nearly out of farming so it wasn't going to be needed to last very long.
On saying that the frame is strong and will last a long time, no sign of the polythene needing replacing yet either
Younger farmers should be going for a shed though
2. It was a good bit cheaper to put up and was needed quickly .
Putting it up on 2ft mass concrete walls is a great job, no messing pushing the dung against the Galebreaker with the tractor

farming93 · 22-11-2020 7:56pm

wrangler wrote: »

Ewes went in in early february and ewe lambs in early march, both about a month before lambing. we spread nitrogen early september and block grazed from december on, we never fed outside. The year it didn't work we built the tunnel. Grass didn't grow in the autumn and land was very wet, tunnel was built in three weeks

Did you not find you'd get twin lamb disease only feeding a month pre lambing? I usually give a bit of meal from 6 to 8 weeks pre lambing.

wrangler · 22-11-2020 8:35pm

farming93 wrote: »

Did you not find you'd get twin lamb disease only feeding a month pre lambing? I usually give a bit of meal from 6 to 8 weeks pre lambing.

Triplets would be fed indoor that long alright
I don't remember it being a problem, if they were out they'd be on plenty grass and exercise,
We'd be moving up to a kg ad day as quick as was safe, they'd be a strong month in feeding before lambing, the early lambing pedrigrees would be put out 1st march and the ewe lambs would go into their shed

Straw use was €3/ewe then compared with more that twice that now. the ewes went in on straw and meal then too

farawaygrass · 22-11-2020 10:55pm

Thanks for sharing all your info wrangler. Did you have sheep slats or were you bedding as well as feeding straw?

wrangler · 23-11-2020 8:52am

farawaygrass wrote: »

Thanks for sharing all your info wrangler. Did you have sheep slats or were you bedding as well as feeding straw?

I bed the ewes normally, they eat what they want, they're clever enough they eat mostly when it's thrown in first and clean.
The 200 in the tunnel used to get a bale a day, experts say that if a ration is over 7% fibre that they have enough fibre but I never tested that one. I know during the drought, the fields were bare and the suckling ewes were eating a kilo of meal without side effects but the ditches were well trimmed by them so couldn't say they were getting no extra fibre

farawaygrass · 25-11-2020 10:33am

Many here tag lambs at birth?

Sami23 · 25-11-2020 10:44am

farawaygrass wrote: »

Many here tag lambs at birth?

No - tagged the day they leave farm

wrangler · 25-11-2020 12:04pm

farawaygrass wrote: »

Many here tag lambs at birth?

,

Yes, We started when we had a lot of ewes, it made it easy to keep track of everything, then graduated to the prattley scales where we punched in the numbers and then to having a reader in the scales that recorded automatically.
People have asked do we get joint ill due to tagging and castrating at a day old, we wouldn't even have 1% joint ill

Siamsa Sessions · 25-11-2020 12:45pm

wrangler wrote: »

,

Yes, We started when we had a lot of ewes, it made it easy to keep track of everything, then graduated to the prattley scales where we punched in the numbers and then to having a reader in the scales that recorded automatically.
People have asked do we get joint ill due to tagging and castrating at a day old, we wouldn't even have 1% joint ill

We had one case of joint ill last year and it wasn't down to tagging as the lamb wasn't tagged at the time.

If you're doing things properly and recording data to pick out the best ewes for replacements, then I'd say tag at birth.

But we have small numbers here and after recording data for a few years I got fed up of it. There's too much randomness in small numbers. Plus there was always a few lambs that lost tags out in the fields and had to be re-tagged when they were loaded for sale. So, now we only tag when they're in the yard an hour before the lorry backs in.

And those expensive EID tags spend a grand total of less than 12 hours in the lambs ears before being discarded with the lambs head in the factory. But that's a whole other argument, unless you're getting some value from them like Wrangler describes above.

Box09 · 25-11-2020 2:28pm

No, better ways to spend your time at lambing. And some always fall out. Tag going into trailer. Ear clip potential replacements.

weatherbyfoxer · 25-11-2020 2:33pm

an ear notcher is one of the most important things here at lambing.. Lyen ewe lamb left here texel x mule ewe lambs right ear and a problem ewe double left notches

Lano Lynn · 25-11-2020 7:45pm

weatherbyfoxer wrote: »

an ear notcher is one of the most important things here at lambing.. Lyen ewe lamb left here texel x mule ewe lambs right ear and a problem ewe double left notches

much better getting rid of sure trouble and give another a chance to prove her worth.....

weatherbyfoxer · 25-11-2020 8:42pm

Lano Lynn wrote: »

much better getting rid of sure trouble and give another a chance to prove her worth.....

yep,anything with 2 notches here doesnt seem the ram again here..hard miss them going thru the race too pre tupping

farawaygrass · 25-11-2020 9:29pm

I eat notched the problem ewes a few years ago but found it hard to pick them out again so put red management tags on them now.
I was concerned about lambs losing tags alright if you tag at birth.
Whst I was wondering though, if a lamb dies after a few days/weeks as lambs do, do you need to send them all off to the Knackery? Foxes usually take any dead lamb here. If one died snd was gone unknown to you, you’d have a job accounting for all the tags

25-11-2020 9:39pm

farawaygrass wrote: »

I eat notched the problem ewes a few years ago but found it hard to pick them out again so put red management tags on them now.
I was concerned about lambs losing tags alright if you tag at birth.
Whst I was wondering though, if a lamb dies after a few days/weeks as lambs do, do you need to send them all off to the Knackery? Foxes usually take any dead lamb here. If one died snd was gone unknown to you, you’d have a job accounting for all the tags

Right being right,your supposed to send em to knackery

There was a poster here before,who got asked for knackery receipts during a QA inspection iirc

If its tagged,and added to flock register(as in thory supposed to happen),you could be in for a world of hassle

arctictree · 26-11-2020 3:13pm

I use management tags here for the lambs. Blue for males and pink for females. I write the ewe number on the tag and A, B, C if single, twin, triplet. Works well for me during the year as its easy to see the number from a distance and easy to pick out males/females. Then straightforward to cut out the tag and retag when leaving.

Each ewe gets her lambing performance recorded on the phone. Then each one gets checked at weaning and marked for keeping/culling.

roosky · 26-11-2020 10:20pm

Has anyone here got a really good torch or headlamp for checking livestock

I have a few of the small headlamps that are grand for working up close but I need something to be able to scan the hedges and save walking them all evening !

Thinking something like this

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/26622720

Or something like this

https://agridirect.ie/product/clulite-rechargeable-head-a-lite

Thanks

kk.man · 26-11-2020 11:13pm

roosky wrote: »

Has anyone here got a really good torch or headlamp for checking livestock

I have a few of the small headlamps that are grand for working up close but I need something to be able to scan the hedges and save walking them all evening !

Thinking something like this

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/26622720

Or something like this

https://agridirect.ie/product/clulite-rechargeable-head-a-lite

Thanks

Cheetah

wrangler · 26-11-2020 11:23pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Right being right,your supposed to send em to knackery

There was a poster here before,who got asked for knackery receipts during a QA inspection iirc

If its tagged,and added to flock register(as in thory supposed to happen),you could be in for a world of hassle

We'd have them tagged and just throw the dead ones into the knackery, never caused any hassle and wouldn't be on a death cert. they'd be recorded on the computer program alright. we'd have a death cert on anything over 15 or 20kg.
We never lose tags, tag them near the head with Utags and they'll never have cause to fall out, anyone tagging breeding ewe lambs in a trailer has very little respect for either the lamb or the next owner..... it's scandalous the way they're tagged by some, big rips and out on the end of the ear

farawaygrass · 27-11-2020 3:23pm

wrangler wrote: »

We'd have them tagged and just throw the dead ones into the knackery, never caused any hassle and wouldn't be on a death cert. they'd be recorded on the computer program alright. we'd have a death cert on anything over 15 or 20kg.
We never lose tags, tag them near the head with Utags and they'll never have cause to fall out, anyone tagging breeding ewe lambs in a trailer has very little respect for either the lamb or the next owner..... it's scandalous the way they're tagged by some, big rips and out on the end of the ear

Did you find the pratley crate good wrangler? Was it an automatic one, as in would divide the sheep into groups according to the info you requested?

wrangler · 27-11-2020 8:22pm

farawaygrass wrote: »

Did you find the pratley crate good wrangler? Was it an automatic one, as in would divide the sheep into groups according to the info you requested?

No, ours is the bog standard Prattley. It was €3100 including vat at the time, the fancy one was €7000, we've a neighbour with the automatic alright, great job, it'll sort sheep away on its own, naturally the ones that are picked for killing need to be checked for finish as they're only picked based on weight.
The fact that our scales doesn't rattle and bang like the ordinary scales means the lambs are keen to go into it. The reader we have isn't great, short range and you'd have to wait a few seconds for the lamb to put his ear near it , but it's fine though, it register the number and weight and a light comes on then to tell you when to open the gate and which of the gates to open, there's left right and straight ahead

razor8 · 27-11-2020 9:10pm

roosky wrote: »

Has anyone here got a really good torch or headlamp for checking livestock

I have a few of the small headlamps that are grand for working up close but I need something to be able to scan the hedges and save walking them all evening !

Thinking something like this

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/26622720

Or something like this

https://agridirect.ie/product/clulite-rechargeable-head-a-lite

Thanks

Bought one of these awhile ago. Good value and excellent range

Bought the NEW PREDATOR FOX HUNTER HANDHELD

Have headlights too

https://wildhunter.ie/collections/lampshandheld

early_riser · 27-11-2020 9:52pm

early_riser wrote: »

Anyone scan any ewes yet? Doing the Jan ewes here tomorrow afternoon

Scanned 1.7 for what's in lamb, 10 out of 50 not in lamb early but they mostly hoggets and they are back with ram a month so should be got this time around, happy enough with results

Kevhog1988 · 29-11-2020 9:28pm

Anyone selling a cheap ram in the leinster area?. Only have 12 ewes so don't want to spend big money.

joe35 · 30-11-2020 1:06pm

Do people dose mature ewes for fluke. Sent a few away to the factory a few weeks ago and one came back with fluke.

Ewes are in good form but seen one there with fluke symptoms, so was thinking of blanket dosing them. How long after dosing would you leave it before dosing or should I leave it all together. TIA

Tileman · 30-11-2020 2:12pm

joe35 wrote: »

Do people dose mature ewes for fluke. Sent a few away to the factory a few weeks ago and one came back with fluke.

Ewes are in good form but seen one there with fluke symptoms, so was thinking of blanket dosing them. How long after dosing would you leave it before dosing or should I leave it all together. TIA

Yes mature ewes do need to be dosed if they are exposed to wet land. Very little land would not be wet in winter so yes you absolutely should dose them all.

joe35 · 30-11-2020 4:00pm

Would you dose them in lamb

Westernrock · 30-11-2020 4:51pm

joe35 wrote: »

Would you dose them in lamb

If you didn’t they would be dead before lambing here in the west! We would have to dose every 6-8 weeks during the winter here.

Ard_MC · 30-11-2020 5:37pm

joe35 wrote: »

Would you dose them in lamb

Yes get dosed twice in lamb here and once before ram goes out.

Green farmer · 30-11-2020 6:04pm

Any recommendations as to which ewe fluke dose ? Successfully used duotech in the past here, but the amended withdrawal takes abit of good out of it, flexibility wise.

kk.man · 30-11-2020 8:54pm

Green farmer wrote: »

Any recommendations as to which ewe fluke dose ? Successfully used duotech in the past here, but the amended withdrawal takes abit of good out of it, flexibility wise.

I don't find it very effective tbh. I think it does only one stage two max. I'd go expensive and the 3 stages. Like it's not like you going to be bringing the ewes to the factory anytime soon.

eire23 · 30-11-2020 10:00pm

Think the general line of thought is go with a triclabendazole based dose first then a clonsatel like flukiver and if a third one is needed maybe rafoxinide for the third one. I give the first one going to the ram and work from there. These are ewes that are out for the winter. Try to never give the same dose twice in a season.

DJ98 · 30-11-2020 11:46pm

What do people find works best in a footbath? Using formalin at the moment but think it's hard on man and beast, vet said not to use copper so any other suggestions?

wrangler · 30-11-2020 11:54pm

DJ98 wrote: »

What do people find works best in a footbath? Using formalin at the moment but think it's hard on man and beast, vet said not to use copper so any other suggestions?

Zinc sulphate has worked here for years, have never used anything else,

DJ98 · 30-11-2020 11:57pm

wrangler wrote: »

Zinc sulphate has worked here for years, have never used anything else,

Is there not something about that being hard to get rid of or something as it's a metal?

General sheep thread

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