Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

Jump_In_Jack · 15-10-2020 4:58pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

So what if he's big heavy second row. Is the scrum really been such an issue that it needs to be strengthened up that much?

In general, look at the world cup final, look at Saracens beating Leinster, if you lose the scrum it can prevent you from getting much of a foothold in the match.

Against Italy maybe it won't come down to the scrum, but against France it certainly could.

The Lost Sheep · 15-10-2020 5:00pm

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

In general, look at the world cup final, look at Saracens beating Leinster, if you lose the scrum it can prevent you from getting much of a foothold in the match.

Against Italy maybe it won't come down to the scrum, but against France it certainly could.

And a second row isnt going to be near why the scrum will be difference between winning and losing especially when international games have around 13/14 scrums per game. If it was the 80s and there were 30+ scrums a game then maybe but not now.

sydthebeat · 15-10-2020 5:04pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

And a second row isnt going to be near why the scrum will be difference between winning and losing

that is quite a naive statement

The Lost Sheep · 15-10-2020 5:05pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

that is quite a naive statement

Im saying a second row like Roux is not going to be the big difference that some are trying to say he would be.

sydthebeat · 15-10-2020 5:09pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Im saying a second row like Roux is not going to be the big difference that some are trying to say he would be.

When it comes to scrum time, there is probably no better tighthead lock available in the country.

outside of the scrum, i agree that he wont be the winning or losing of a game.... and his discipline can be a hindrance...

but we're discussing Roux in the strict terms of the scrum here... and to say that he wouldn't make a difference to the winning or losing of the scrum just isnt correct. He is incredibly influential at that aspect.

The Lost Sheep · 15-10-2020 5:11pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

When it comes to scrum time, there is probably no better tighthead lock available in the country.

outside of the scrum, i agree that he wont be the winning or losing of a game.... and his discipline can be a hindrance...

but we're discussing Roux in the strict terms of the scrum here... and to say that he wouldn't make a difference to the winning or losing of the scrum just isnt correct. He is incredibly influential at that aspect.

But he wont be the difference between winning and losing the game which is what matters.

sydthebeat · 15-10-2020 5:19pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

But he wont be the difference between winning and losing the game which is what matters.

very definitive statement there.

its incredibly hard to win any game is your scrum is giving away penalties all the time... there is quite recent evidence for this.

J-in-J has already stated why the inclusion of Roux is a valid suggestion.

you can be guaranteed that France will target our scrum as a point of weakness for us. You asked:

Is the scrum really been such an issue that it needs to be strengthened up that much?

and i think many would argue that yes, it is... especially considering missing first choice tight head and an ageing first choice loose head, and missing his able replacement

sydthebeat · 15-10-2020 6:17pm

Guinness RFC wrote: »

As far as the mindset of the players is concerned I believe it is possible to determine what that is like individually and collectively by merely watching them play. Trying to pull off flicks behind the back or forwards stationed out on the wings are signs of Prima Donna attitude. It’s not the players’ faults they simply haven’t been taught not to do these things. I know some will say sometimes it’s in Leo’s gameplan to create mismatches on the wing and have forwards blazing down that channel but I think if you are young and trying to make an impression you get stuck in to the basics and are seen to be working your ass off. You don’t hang out in the wide channels. This could also be said of tackling technique, trying too many fancy plays, kicking the ball excessively (I.e. hogging possession to make yourself look good) or simply not digging out tough matches.

just to come back to this again.... its absolutely dripping with the conservatism and over-management that has been used as a stick to beat irish rugby with over the last couple of years. Allowing the players to be freer to play is what we should be aiming for...

or we end up with this:

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2020/1010/1170715-irish-mitre-10-new-zealand-regan-odonnell-jager/

Oliver Jager wrote: »

I remember once at home I threw an offload behind my back in training and a coach came up and said that was awesome, but do it again and I’ll drop you

Conan O'Donnell wrote:

I find I have changed my game a good bit. My skills have come on a lot. Even when we are playing tag, I’m pulling out all sorts of moves.

Through the leg passes and behind the head passes, I couldn’t do that before.

They don’t give out to you for some stuff. If you make a line break, you are encouraged to keep the ball alive. It can be riskier, but those passes are on more because support players are looking for them rather than going to a ruck.

Guinness RFC · 15-10-2020 7:05pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

just to come back to this again.... its absolutely dripping with the conservatism and over-management that has been used as a stick to beat irish rugby with over the last couple of years. Allowing the players to be freer to play is what we should be aiming for...

or we end up with this:

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2020/1010/1170715-irish-mitre-10-new-zealand-regan-odonnell-jager/

Being free to play doesn’t mean every forward becomes a back. They still have a job to do. Discipline wins games and disciplining players for sloppy or selfish play reaps rewards in the long term.

sydthebeat · 15-10-2020 7:20pm

Yes mistress

Dog Botherer · 15-10-2020 8:11pm

is guinness okay

The Lost Sheep · 15-10-2020 8:22pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

very definitive statement there.

its incredibly hard to win any game is your scrum is giving away penalties all the time... there is quite recent evidence for this.

J-in-J has already stated why the inclusion of Roux is a valid suggestion.

you can be guaranteed that France will target our scrum as a point of weakness for us. You asked:

and i think many would argue that yes, it is... especially considering missing first choice tight head and an ageing first choice loose head, and missing his able replacement

we're talking about a second row not a prop which is very different.

Jump_In_Jack · 15-10-2020 9:53pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

we're talking about a second row not a prop which is very different.

I think you’re not appreciating how important the tight head lock is in a scrum.
It is a physically demanding position, and Quinn Roux and Jean Kleyn have the ideal type of build for that role.

The Lost Sheep · 15-10-2020 10:07pm

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

I think you’re not appreciating how important the tight head lock is in a scrum.
It is a physically demanding position, and Quinn Roux and Jean Kleyn have the ideal type of build for that role.

And the other second row isnt a physically demanding position?
you are putting far too much of an emphasis on the tight head second row. yes playing scrum behind your tighthead is physically demanding but it can vary hugely depending on need but the second row is not going to be near cause of issues in scrum compared to anything in front row.

Richie_Rich89 · 16-10-2020 12:25am

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

I think you’re not appreciating how important the tight head lock is in a scrum.
It is a physically demanding position, and Quinn Roux and Jean Kleyn have the ideal type of build for that role.

Yeah, it's become pretty important. 15 or 20 years ago you'd get a turnover on opposition put-in if the scrum went through 90 degrees. Now, you're in danger of getting penalised for 'walking around' if you don't hold it square on opposition put in. That means you need a lot of stability on the tighthead side, and a strong-scrummaging th lock can be a big help with that.

Wheeling used to be an art form and it was only 'whipping', or pulling back on the th side while going forward on the other, that was illegal. That's gone out of the game now, though.

PTH2009 · 16-10-2020 1:11pm

The Italy match must be cursed

Country going into level 5 with no sporting events to take place

16-10-2020 1:23pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

The Italy match must be cursed

Country going into level 5 with no sporting events to take place

Surely there'll some kind of exception.

Please.

I beg you.

I need this.

PCros · 16-10-2020 2:46pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

The Italy match must be cursed

Country going into level 5 with no sporting events to take place

Even if it goes to Level 4 can this proceed?

Stheno · 16-10-2020 2:54pm

PCros wrote: »

Even if it goes to Level 4 can this proceed?

Yes at level 4
No at level 5

Burkie1203 · 16-10-2020 5:42pm

https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1317131866802094082?s=19

FACECUTTR · 16-10-2020 6:03pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1317131866802094082?s=19

Que the hate

rayd3 · 16-10-2020 6:31pm

What hate? Haven’t seen any of those usu opinion pieces about Seamus Lowe or Seamuson Gibson-Pork yet. Curious isn’t it.

Richie_Rich89 · 16-10-2020 6:44pm

Zebo's starting for Racing and Ryan's on the bench. I wonder if an acceptable compromise to the selection of overseas players chestnut would be that they be considered for World Cups, but not for everything else?

Would that be enough to incentivise most top players to stay?

Having players who are making a success of playing for foreign teams filter into the squad could be a bit of a boost. They could bring an insider's knowledge and confidence when trying to go about beating certain teams, and, from a psychological point of view, it could make the squad feel as if they're stronger than at other times. Let's face it, Ireland needs all the help they can get at World Cup time.

gally74 · 16-10-2020 10:41pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Whats everyone else thinking in terms of a first choice 23 for the 2 6Ns games? Is the below the most likely or am I missing someone?

Healy Herring Porter
Dillane Ryan
Doris Stander VDF

Murray Sexton
Aki Ringrose
Stockdale Keenan Conway

Kelleher, Byrne, Ryan, Roux, Conan, Marmion, Byrne, Henshaw

mot a chance murray starts

Kevski · 16-10-2020 11:10pm

gally74 wrote: »

mot a chance murray starts

I would love to believe that but I wouldn’t be getting my hopes up about it happening.

16-10-2020 11:30pm

Kearnage on the late late right now

thomond2006 · 17-10-2020 12:15am

gally74 wrote: »

mot a chance murray starts

I'd get down to your local bookmaker to see if he'll offer odds on it if you think that's the case. Murray will be starting unless he's injured.

Buer · 17-10-2020 8:44am

gally74 wrote: »

mot a chance murray starts

By far the most likely starter, I'd have thought.

bilston · 17-10-2020 9:28am

Think Molloy has pretty much nailed the team above...

Not sure who partners Ryan though. CJ and Doris could potentially switch.

15 Jacob Stockdale
14 Andrew Conway
13 Garry Ringrose
12 Bundee Aki
11 Hugo Keenan
10 Jonathan Sexton
9 Conor Murray
1 Cian Healy
2 Rob Herring
3 Andrew Porter
4 Not sure
5 James Ryan
6 CJ Stander
7 Josh Van Der Flier
8 Caolan Doris

Definitely should beat Italy...could struggle in Paris though.

LostArt · 17-10-2020 11:26am

gally74 wrote: »

mot a chance murray starts

I'd be quite surprised if he didn't start these two games, November might be different though

Dravokivich · 17-10-2020 1:26pm

rayd3 wrote: »

What hate? Haven’t seen any of those usu opinion pieces about Seamus Lowe or Seamuson Gibson-Pork yet. Curious isn’t it.

There's a ton of crap posted under the promo pictures on Facebook.

Dog Botherer · 17-10-2020 4:13pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

There's a ton of crap posted under the promo pictures on Facebook.

Not surprised. Facebook is even more of a sewer than Twitter these days.

Dravokivich · 17-10-2020 4:38pm

Dog Botherer wrote: »

Not surprised. Facebook is even more of a sewer than Twitter these days.

Funnily enough, 1 was complaining lowe is holding back other players, when challenged, they started naming forwards.

Dog Botherer · 17-10-2020 5:42pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

Funnily enough, 1 was complaining lowe is holding back other players, when challenged, they started naming forwards.

probably forgot to rewrite their notes from when Stander got capped

Clegg · 17-10-2020 7:56pm

Doris wins Irish Young Player of the Year. Well deserved too. Been a rapid rise through the ranks.

https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1317539747997384704?s=19

Clegg · 17-10-2020 9:54pm

Ringrose is Ireland's player of the year.

https://twitter.com/RugbyPlayersIRE/status/1317546406077435904?s=19

Dave_The_Sheep · 18-10-2020 12:51am

Not a surprise, or unwarranted.

Burkie1203 · 18-10-2020 1:30pm

Govt decision tmrw. Level 4+ expected going by Simon Harris on TWIP

Might see the IRFU move all games to Belfast

Zzippy · 18-10-2020 2:02pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Govt decision tmrw. Level 4+ expected going by Simon Harris on TWIP

Might see the IRFU move all games to Belfast

Why? NI is under lockdown already. There won't be fans at the games wherever they are held.

Burkie1203 · 18-10-2020 2:10pm

Zzippy wrote: »

Why? NI is under lockdown already. There won't be fans at the games wherever they are held.

If we go Level 5 elite sport is off.

Simon Harris said "govt will act decisively"

It's level 4 minimum. NI seem to have an elite sport exemption though.

sydthebeat · 18-10-2020 2:20pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

If we go Level 5 elite sport is off.

Has that been confirmed in regards to rugby?

Up to two days ago they were still saying rugby could be exempt

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/rugby-may-be-exempt-to-continue-under-possible-level-5-restrictions-1.4383127%3fmode=amp

salmocab · 18-10-2020 2:39pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Has that been confirmed in regards to rugby?

Up to two days ago they were still saying rugby could be exempt

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/rugby-may-be-exempt-to-continue-under-possible-level-5-restrictions-1.4383127%3fmode=amp

The levels have fallen apart at the first Hurdle, level 3+. They will make changes every time they implement a level I think. Nothing is in stone now.

molloyjh · 18-10-2020 3:04pm

salmocab wrote: »

The levels have fallen apart at the first Hurdle, level 3+. They will make changes every time they implement a level I think. Nothing is in stone now.

It never was in stone. They said as much when they released the details of the levels. They were only ever guidelines.

PTH2009 · 18-10-2020 3:48pm

Like another user said we need something to look forward too and nothing better than the 6 nations for our rugby fix

bilston · 18-10-2020 4:56pm

Zzippy wrote: »

Why? NI is under lockdown already. There won't be fans at the games wherever they are held.

600 fans still allowed at sporting events in Northern Ireland.

Surely even if you guys go to L5 the authorities could bring in an exemption for elite sport. Aren't the players tested once a week? Stick them in a bubble for a couple of months like the England Cricket team did in the summer. Pain in the arse for the players, especially those with young families.. but the alternative is that their employer loses a shed load of money...and since their employer pays their wages...

Podge_irl · 18-10-2020 8:05pm

The "elite sport" distinction needs to go and change it to pro sport. It is far more feasible for a pro player to isolate with the squad for a period.

errlloyd · 18-10-2020 8:39pm

A large part of the problem is people gathering to watch.

bilston · 18-10-2020 8:53pm

errlloyd wrote: »

A large part of the problem is people gathering to watch.

Sometimes people have to take responsibility for themselves

errlloyd · 19-10-2020 9:16am

bilston wrote: »

Sometimes people have to take responsibility for themselves

With respect, that is unfortunately not how this works.

This is a contagious virus, there is no personal responsibility. The consequences of actions are felt on a population level, not a personal one.

AdamD · 19-10-2020 10:29am

Pro sport will be exempt though, for the exact reason outlined - they're in a bubble.

Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

Comments