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Bus Eireann N3/M3 Corridor Route & Timetable Changes - Phase 3

123578

Comments

  • #202
    Conway635
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 400 ✭✭Conway635


    1815 departure from Busaras on 109X last night:

    * bus didn't arrive at Busaras till 1819

    * private hire coach, had LEAP reader but driver unfamiliar with it so many travelled free - lost revenue.

    * Driver loudly announced several time he "hadn't a clue" where Kells was or what routing to take.

    * Ended up running via Port Tunnell (at the urging of some pax) thus missing out several stops. Also bypassed Blanch slip.

    * In mitigation, bus was full anyway, however pax at missed stops will not be aware that service has gone and will just have waited with no info.

    * Arrived Kells on schedule @1935

    * paying homage to a grand old Bus Eireann tradition, even though this was a private operator, the clock in the coach displayed the wrong time. :-)

    C635


  • #203
    horseburger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    Conway635 wrote: »
    1815 departure from Busaras on 109X last night:

    * bus didn't arrive at Busaras till 1819

    * private hire coach, had LEAP reader but driver unfamiliar with it so many travelled free - lost revenue.

    * Driver loudly announced several time he "hadn't a clue" where Kells was or what routing to take.

    * Ended up running via Port Tunnell (at the urging of some pax) thus missing out several stops. Also bypassed Blanch slip.

    * In mitigation, bus was full anyway, however pax at missed stops will not be aware that service has gone and will just have waited with no info.

    * Arrived Kells on schedule @1935

    * paying homage to a grand old Bus Eireann tradition, even though this was a private operator, the clock in the coach displayed the wrong time. :-)

    C635

    I guess those passengers that requested the driver take the port tunnel, didn't have much regard for the passengers waiting at the intermediate stops.


  • #204
    Slippin Jimmy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,031 ✭✭✭Slippin Jimmy


    horseburger wrote: »
    I guess those passengers that requested the driver take the port tunnel, didn't have much regard for the passengers waiting at the intermediate stops.

    They couldn't have got on the bus anyway. So no point sitting in traffic when the port tunnel was the quickest route.


  • #205
    horseburger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    Slippin Jimmy wrote: »
    They couldn't have got on the bus anyway. So no point sitting in traffic when the port tunnel was the quickest route.

    The point is, as Conway635 pointed out, passengers who were waiting at the intermediate stops, between Bus Aras and Blanchardstown, for that 109X service from Bus Aras at 6.15pm, would not have known that the bus was full when it left Bus Aras. They would have had to wait another hour for the next 109X service, from Bus Aras at 7.15pm, to Cavan.

    The passengers, who, as Conway635 said "urged" the driver to take the port tunnel, which is not an official stop on that 109X bus, still didn't consider the other passengers who would have been waiting at the intermediate stops.

    Perhaps some of the passengers, who urged the driver to take the port tunnel, were going to Kells.

    If so, and considering that the 109X bus was full leaving Bus Aras, perhaps those going to Kells, could have taken the 6.30pm 109 from Bus Aras to Kells, thus making sure there were a few seats available on the 6.15pm 109X, for anyone at the intermediate stops, in between Bus Aras and Blanchardstown, who were going to Virginia or Cavan.

    Anyone for Kells could have taken a 6.30pm 109 from Bus Aras to Kells, or they could have taken a 109 at 6.15pm from Bus Aras, due in Dunshaughlin at 7.08pm, and then connected with a 109A, that picks up and drops off in Dunshaughlin at 7.15pm, going on to Kells.

    That might have been one way to ensure there was space, for everyone going back to Kells, Virginia and Cavan, from Bus Aras at around 6.15pm - 6.30pm.

    http://www.buseireann.ie/timetables/1504435671-109X.pdf
    http://www.buseireann.ie/timetables/1504435589-109.pdf
    http://www.buseireann.ie/timetables/1473263565-109A.pdf


  • #206
    Conway635
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 400 ✭✭Conway635


    To be fair, it is more the responsibility of BE to be regulating the loading than it is of the paying (or in this case freebie) passengers.

    Loading beside us was a BE double-decker on a "short" 109 (Dunshaughlin only) very lightly loaded. Maybe this bus and regular driver could have done the 109X leaving the lower capacity coach and guest driver to work the short.

    Some passengers (including myself) did explain proper route but the voices calling for PT were more persuasive.

    C635


  • #207
    AnnaSophia
    Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭AnnaSophia


    I've emailed Bus Eireann to no avail, so hopefully someone here can help - do any of the 109 services pick up on Leeson St in the evening anymore?


  • #208
    Conway635
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 400 ✭✭Conway635


    AnnaSophia wrote: »
    I've emailed Bus Eireann to no avail, so hopefully someone here can help - do any of the 109 services pick up on Leeson St in the evening anymore?

    Unfortunately (for both of us) the answer is no - they all run from Busaras now.

    C635


  • #209
    horseburger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    Conway635 wrote: »
    To be fair, it is more the responsibility of BE to be regulating the loading than it is of the paying (or in this case freebie) passengers.

    Loading beside us was a BE double-decker on a "short" 109 (Dunshaughlin only) very lightly loaded. Maybe this bus and regular driver could have done the 109X leaving the lower capacity coach and guest driver to work the short.

    Some passengers (including myself) did explain proper route but the voices calling for PT were more persuasive.

    C635

    I'm thinking of how there might have been space for everyone going to Kells, Virginia and Cavan, from Bus Aras, at around 6.15pm till 6.45pm, if the 6.15pm 109X bus had gone out the route towards Glasnevin, Finglas and the Blanchardstown slip, as it should have done.

    Did any of the passengers who told the driver to go out the port tunnel, get out in Kells?

    If there were a number of people for Kells on that 109X at 6.15pm - in order to make sure there was space for all passengers waiting at that time going to Kells, Virginia and Cavan, from Bus Aras and the intermediate stops between Bus Aras and Blanchardstown skip Road - perhaps Kells passengers could have taken the 109 services at 6.30pm or 6.45pm, or the 109 at 6.15pm to Dunshaughlin, and then connected with a 109A in Dunshaughlin going to Kells.

    I guess if the 109X bus at 6.15pm had filled at Bus Aras, there were people left behind in Bus Aras.

    If there were people left behind, were any of them going to either Virginia or Cavan?

    If there were, and the 109X bus included people going to Kells, I think, one way to make sure there were places for everyone, would be if the Kells passengers had taken the other 109 services between 6.15pm and 6.45pm, in order to make space for Virginia and Cavan passengers, on the 6.15pm 109X, as the Virginia and Cavan passengers would have had to wait another hour for the next 109X service, at 7.15pm from Bus Aras.

    The buses going to Kells from Bus Aras at that time included a 6.30pm 109 and a 6.45pm 109.

    The 6.15pm 109, from Bus Aras to Dunshaughlin, may have been an option for Kells passengers, as they could connect with the 109A in Dunshaughlin going to Kells.

    From what you say, about space being available on the 109 at 6.15pm to Dunshaughlin, that passengers for Kells who took the 109X, could have taken the 109 to Dunshaughlin and connected with the 109A at 7.15pm from Dunshaughlin to Kells, and made space for passengers for Virginia and Cavan on the 109X.


  • #210
    AnnaSophia
    Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭AnnaSophia


    Conway635 wrote: »
    Unfortunately (for both of us) the answer is no - they all run from Busaras now.

    C635

    That's what I was afraid of! Thanks for your reply :)


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  • #211
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    I realise this won't be a popular suggestion, but for me, the whole concept of sending the longer route BE services through the jams on the city roads inside the M50 is out of date, the M3 corridor should work on the basis of services run from Busaras non stop via DPT to the M3 park and ride at Clonee, with Dublin bus providing feeder services to and from places like Phibsboro and Blanchardstown, and anywhere else that's appropriate, such as the hospitals. In the same vein, tickets should be transferable between the different services at places like Ashbourne, Dunshaughlin, Navan etc, as well as at Clonee onto local services. It really is time for a radical rethink about how some of these services operate, tinkering around the edges doesn't hack it any more. The same would then apply to inbounds, the last stop before Busaras would be Clonee, and if it was correctly set up, I suspect that for most people, the journey times would be better. I'd even wonder if all services actually need to run between Clonee and Busaras, if the arrival times from the different routes were similar, off peak, one bus could well be able to carry the passengers for several services, even more so if there were more feeder options to other parts of the city to/from Clonee, which might reduce the dependence on using Busaras.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • #212
    tom23
    Registered Users Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭tom23


    From using the train every now and again I'd happily get on a feeder bus at Parkway and go straight down the motorway and turning in at Garlow cross. Would be ideal. Your bang on the money in that thinkering around the edges doesn't cut it anymore.


  • #213
    CuriousOwl
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭CuriousOwl


    Down in the south of the country I’ve noticed great disimprovements in the standard of service over the last few weeks too. On several occasions recently the X8 has been operated by a private coach which doesn’t have the facilities for selling tickets. I’ve also experienced an early morning bus not showing up at all with no notice posted on the website or any social media. Do you think this could be a knock-on effect of the issues with the new services / rostering up the country? Didn’t think it would be affecting this part of the country just yet.


  • #214
    horseburger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    Irish Steve wrote: »
    I realise this won't be a popular suggestion, but for me, the whole concept of sending the longer route BE services through the jams on the city roads inside the M50 is out of date, the M3 corridor should work on the basis of services run from Busaras non stop via DPT to the M3 park and ride at Clonee, with Dublin bus providing feeder services to and from places like Phibsboro and Blanchardstown, and anywhere else that's appropriate, such as the hospitals. In the same vein, tickets should be transferable between the different services at places like Ashbourne, Dunshaughlin, Navan etc, as well as at Clonee onto local services. It really is time for a radical rethink about how some of these services operate, tinkering around the edges doesn't hack it any more. The same would then apply to inbounds, the last stop before Busaras would be Clonee, and if it was correctly set up, I suspect that for most people, the journey times would be better. I'd even wonder if all services actually need to run between Clonee and Busaras, if the arrival times from the different routes were similar, off peak, one bus could well be able to carry the passengers for several services, even more so if there were more feeder options to other parts of the city to/from Clonee, which might reduce the dependence on using Busaras.

    I guess, also, if Dublin Bus did operate such a type of connecting service so regularly, to and from places like Blanchardstown and Dublin City Centre, it might be useful to passengers travelling from places like Kentstown and Duleek on the 105 timetable, between Drogheda and Blanchardstown Connolly Hospital, considering that the 103 hasn't served Duleek, since the 103 timetable changed on 3rd April 2016, and as far as I know, the only other service that covers Kentstown to and from Dublin is the 107.

    But, if the Dublin Bus feeder service, was a direct service, to the city centre, would it have enough people, at any one time, on each of the feeder services, to merit not covering intermediate stops.

    In such a scenario, might Dublin Bus just suggest, that passengers - who would be alighting at Blanchardstown off the 105 service, from places like Duleek and Kentstown - just avail of the existing Dublin Bus services between Blanchardstown and Dublin city centre?

    http://www.buseireann.ie/timetables/1470226109-105.pdf

    http://www.buseireann.ie/timetables/1470226273-105X.pdf


  • #215
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    The DB feeders to Clonee would need to cover some of the intermediate stops, to make it viable, a lot would depend on where those feeder services started and finished, I suspect a service from Clonee to St Stephen's Green would be popular, even more so if some of the peak time services went out to UCD.

    I'd also be interested to know how many people would use services from Clonee to (say) Citywest, Sandyford, and Red Cow, to suggest just 3 large industrial areas that are a nightmare to get to by public transport from the Northern outer suburbs and the like. In the same vein, places like Ballycoolin are not well served if you live outside of Dublin.

    Yes, the concepts that were being suggested a few years back of an outer ring Metro would go a long way towards making it easier for people to get to and from work, but we don't have the political will to commit to real infrastructure, the return on investment for the politicians is too long, if it won't deliver votes at the next election, they don't want to know about it, so there's no real long term planning of anything that might actually be of real benefit to the general population.

    There are a few 103X services from Duleek to Dublin, but you're right, the changes to the 103 have made it harder to get to Dublin from there, and I never did understand the thinking behind stopping the revised 105 at Blanchardstown, but I'd also have to wonder at the whole concept of BE being the main provider for South Meath, when Dublin Bus go out to Blessington, Maynooth and Balbriggan, all further from Dublin than Ashbourne, Ratoath and Dunshaughlin. TII are seeking tenders for a service to Swords from Ashbourne, which would be very easy for DB to do, as they already come within a relatively short distance at Rolestown, but that seems too easy, and of course, it would then compete with things like the 109A, as the DB service goes beyond Swords to Dublin, via the airport.

    In many respects, the whole concept of Busaras is outdated, I suspect that a much more usable solution would be to have a number of hub locations for the long distance services at places like the Airport, Clonee, Liffey Valley, Red Cow and Sandyford, with feeders from those locations into the most popular places within the M50, with the way that Dublin has evolved over the last 30 years, the concept of everyone working in the city centre is no longer valid, there are huge work areas around the periphery of the city, and those locations are very poorly serviced by public transport if you don't want to go via the city centre, and that's part of the reason for the massive congestion on the M50, for many people, there is NO viable and reliable public transport option.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • #216
    horseburger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    Irish Steve wrote: »
    The DB feeders to Clonee would need to cover some of the intermediate stops, to make it viable, a lot would depend on where those feeder services started and finished, I suspect a service from Clonee to St Stephen's Green would be popular, even more so if some of the peak time services went out to UCD.

    I'd also be interested to know how many people would use services from Clonee to (say) Citywest, Sandyford, and Red Cow, to suggest just 3 large industrial areas that are a nightmare to get to by public transport from the Northern outer suburbs and the like. In the same vein, places like Ballycoolin are not well served if you live outside of Dublin.

    Yes, the concepts that were being suggested a few years back of an outer ring Metro would go a long way towards making it easier for people to get to and from work, but we don't have the political will to commit to real infrastructure, the return on investment for the politicians is too long, if it won't deliver votes at the next election, they don't want to know about it, so there's no real long term planning of anything that might actually be of real benefit to the general population.

    There are a few 103X services from Duleek to Dublin, but you're right, the changes to the 103 have made it harder to get to Dublin from there, and I never did understand the thinking behind stopping the revised 105 at Blanchardstown, but I'd also have to wonder at the whole concept of BE being the main provider for South Meath, when Dublin Bus go out to Blessington, Maynooth and Balbriggan, all further from Dublin than Ashbourne, Ratoath and Dunshaughlin. TII are seeking tenders for a service to Swords from Ashbourne, which would be very easy for DB to do, as they already come within a relatively short distance at Rolestown, but that seems too easy, and of course, it would then compete with things like the 109A, as the DB service goes beyond Swords to Dublin, via the airport.

    In many respects, the whole concept of Busaras is outdated, I suspect that a much more usable solution would be to have a number of hub locations for the long distance services at places like the Airport, Clonee, Liffey Valley, Red Cow and Sandyford, with feeders from those locations into the most popular places within the M50, with the way that Dublin has evolved over the last 30 years, the concept of everyone working in the city centre is no longer valid, there are huge work areas around the periphery of the city, and those locations are very poorly serviced by public transport if you don't want to go via the city centre, and that's part of the reason for the massive congestion on the M50, for many people, there is NO viable and reliable public transport option.

    You raise really good, interesting points, Irish Steve, including about having to go to the city centre to get buses or trains to other parts of Dublin.

    Edit: I forgot to point out in my earlier post, that passengers going to and from Duleek or Kentstown, to Dublin, on the 105, can connect with the 103 service in Ratoath or Ashbourne, going to Dublin.


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  • #217
    Conway635
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 400 ✭✭Conway635


    horseburger wrote: »

    Did any of the passengers who told the driver to go out the port tunnel, get out in Kells?

    That I cannot answer - I was almost at the front and they were behind me, so I only heard voices, and can't match them to bodies getting off later.

    C635


  • #218
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,684 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Bit more disruption today
    Route 103
    10.18 Dublin To Ratoath (Service at 09.58 & 09.38)
    11.22 Ratoath to Dublin (Service at 11.02 & 11.42)

    Route NX
    14.00 Wilton Terrace to Navan
    15.40 Navan to Wilton Terrace

    Route 133
    10.00 From Wicklow to Dublin Airport
    13.40 From Dublin Airport to Wicklow.

    We apologise for any inconvenience these disruptions may cause our customers


  • #219
    horseburger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    Conway635 wrote: »
    That I cannot answer - I was almost at the front and they were behind me, so I only heard voices, and can't match them to bodies getting off later.

    C635

    Do you know if there were passengers for Virginia and Cavan left behind at Bus Aras?

    It sounds to me, that if there were Virginia and Cavan passengers left behind, and more than one person got out in Kells, that perhaps if some of the Kells passengers had not taken that particular 109X at 6.15pm, that there would have been at least some seats available for Virginia and Cavan passengers from Bus Aras, and perhaps at the stops between Bus Aras and the Blanchardstown slip road, had the bus gone out the correct route, and not out the port tunnel.

    If Kells passengers, on that particular 109X at 6.15pm, from Bus Aras, had not taken that particular 109X service, they would not have had to wait a full hour for the next services to Kells from Bus Aras, as there were 109 services at 6.30pm and 6.45pm, compared to the next 109X to Virginia and Cavan at 7.15pm


  • #220
    Commuter109
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭Commuter109


    devnull wrote: »
    Bit more disruption today

    I would be very surprised is that was the true extent of it. I understand that there were multiple NX's that were to start from Wilton Terrace, that have actually started from Bersford place instead over the last two weeks. So while the buses didn't have to be reported as cancellations, they may as well have been to people waiting on the south side of the city.

    This NX has some good points and its not all bad to be fair, but could be a hell of alot of better.


  • #221
    horseburger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/10/13/4147173-unions-slam-doherty-over-unofficial-dispute-claim/


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  • #222
    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime


    horseburger wrote: »
    http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/10/13/4147173-unions-slam-doherty-over-unofficial-dispute-claim/

    Love how she is the minister for work affairs and couldn't give a flying sh/te about us in this case and only blames is based on lies.

    But then again, how untrusting are people towards Regina Doherty ? How much did she steal before ?

    Really shows how the current government is very selfish,

    Shane Ross , bearly lifts a finger in regards to busses or trains but what did he achieve in doing with his buddy enda as a friends agreement ? He got his local Garda station re opened.

    Regina Doherty ? Minister for work affairs for which is an issue in the whole dilemma and she's only worried about her friends getting a bus into town or the airport.

    Re election would be very interesting around now , I can't believe this government has lasted this long.


  • #223
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,684 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    horseburger wrote: »
    http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/10/13/4147173-unions-slam-doherty-over-unofficial-dispute-claim/

    Hardly surprising though that Unions have a different view from the politicians though is at the end of the day, they're never going to agree with each other since they're looking at it from completely different positions and perspectives.

    It wouldn't surprise me if the truth was somewhere in the middle.

    From: https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/1013/912151-sipu-criticise-regina-doherty-over-bus-eireann-claim/
    Bus Éireann rejected SIPTU's assertions of a lack of foresight or incompetence.

    The company said that it had liaised with drivers' unions ahead of the introduction of the new timetable of changes and new driver rosters.

    It said it was working hard to address the impact on services, and would continue to liaise with unions and staff as part of a major business restructure to reverse insolvency and make the company efficient.


  • #224
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,684 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »
    Shane Ross , bearly lifts a finger in regards to busses or trains but what did he achieve in doing with his buddy enda as a friends agreement ? He got his local Garda station re opened.

    There have been quite decent increases in PSO and public transport investment in the last two years, the unions very well know that which is why they continue to only mention figures up until 2015 since if they used more up to date figures in their quotes it would weaken their point somewhat so instead they continue to cherry pick figures and ignore anything that happened since 2015.


  • #225
    horseburger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    devnull wrote: »
    Hardly surprising though that Unions have a different view from the politicians though is at the end of the day, they're never going to agree with each other since they're looking at it from completely different positions and perspectives.

    It wouldn't surprise me if the truth was somewhere in the middle.

    From: https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/1013/912151-sipu-criticise-regina-doherty-over-bus-eireann-claim/

    Recently, I made reference to a number of press statements Regina Doherty made in January and April 2016, were it is clear that she was talking nonsense, in relation to her objections last year, about the changes to the 103 and 105 services.

    In one of her press statements, she said that with changes to the 105 service, that Ashbourne and Ratoath, Duleek and Kentstown passengers would not be able to get to Dublin City Centre.

    She never mentioned, when she claimed this in her January 2016 press statement, that the 103 service to Dublin City Centre to and from Ratoath and Ashbourne was operating at that time.

    Therefore it was not truthful of her to suggest that Ashbourne and Ratoath passengers would not be able to get to Dublin City Centre.

    She talked of passengers wanting to go to Dublin City Centre as being stranded.

    She didn't know, going by her statement, where she is quoted, that the 105 did not at that stage serve Kentstown or Duleek, even though that 105 service was, and still is, covering her local area.

    She just assumed the negative of Bus Éireann and The NTA, where it turned out that the services to and from Dublin and Ashbourne and Ratoath were actually improved.

    As a result of statements she has made before regarding bus services, I would find it very difficult to take as gospel anything she says, including what she claimed this week about Bus Éireann drivers.

    All she is doing is grandstanding. In April 2016, she claimed Bus Éireann had not notified passengers of route changes to the 105 and 103 services. She did not know that Bus Éireann had issued a statement, two months earlier, in February 2016, notifying passengers of changes and improvements to the 105 and 103 services.

    Now, she's expecting people to believe that she is championing Bus Éireann, despite the fact that in the two statements she made in 2016, to which I refer, all she did was criticise both Bus Éireann and The NTA, and assume negativity, of both Bus Éireann and The NTA, in the plans for route changes to the 103 and 105 services.

    http://reginadoherty.blogspot.ie/2016/01/doherty-calls-for-reversal-of-proposed.html

    http://reginadoherty.blogspot.ie/2016/04/bus-eireann-finally-listening-to.html

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=98886417&postcount=12

    https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1892153037769339&id=100009239844885


  • #226
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,684 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    horseburger wrote: »
    She just assumed the negative of Bus Éireann and The NTA, where it turned out that the services to and from Dublin and Ashbourne and Ratoath were actually improved.

    As a result of statements she has made before regarding bus services, I would find it very difficult to take as gospel anything she says, including what she claimed this week about Bus Éireann drivers.

    https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1892153037769339&id=100009239844885[/url]
    I have met with the acting CEO of Bus Eireann, Ray Hernan, again, armed with the feedback that you have provided to me. It is clear that an unofficial labour dispute is in progress.

    In the last week alone, 299 replacement buses had to be drafted in to cover the Eastern bus corridor where drivers aren’t showing up for work, at a cost of €150,000. It’s unacceptable for Meath commuters to be left stranded in this fashion. This simply cannot continue.

    Bus Eireann have since confirmed that the figures quoted by Regina Doherty are correct and have not disputed them according to an article which was posted on the RTE website yesterday

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/1013/912151-sipu-criticise-regina-doherty-over-bus-eireann-claim/
    She said that last week alone, 299 replacement services were required from private bus companies at a cost to Bus Éireann of over €150,000 to plug gaps where drivers had not presented for work.

    These figures were confirmed by Bus Éireann, who also revealed that projected losses for this year have risen from under €10m earlier this year to an estimated €16m.


  • #227
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    There are drivers on holidays and their routes obviously need to be covered and by whom? Both Bus Eireann and Dublin Bus are short staffed on drivers
    and with the total lack of investment within the public transport sector (staff/buses) and they are not alone in that regard (Gardaí, Education, Defence Forces, Health and many other areas) what do people really expect from them?

    The country is spent or broke in whatever way you want to look at it!
    Just think of all those billions that were foolishly paid to bail out the banks and investors but that's another mans argument!


  • #228
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,684 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    TheQuietFella wrote: »
    There are drivers on holidays and their routes obviously need to be covered and by whom? Both Bus Eireann and Dublin Bus are short staffed on drivers.

    Bus Eireann issues seem to be largely related to the fact that the number of staff on sick leave at any one time recently is approx quadruple the national average, if this was not the case the issues with these routes would be at least much reduced if not eliminated altogether.
    and with the total lack of investment within the public transport sector (staff/buses) and they are not alone in that regard

    Investment has been increasing year on year for the last 3 years and will increase further in the next few years as well as has been outlined in the latest budgets which includes over €7bn being spent in redesigning the Dublin City Bus network which is long overdue and it seems that Metro North may finally happen at last.

    There is approx €100m a year now being spent on new vehicles for PSO contract services on a regular basis and I can never remember it being as high as that in the past and whilst subsidy was cut following the financial crisis, state funding last year alone by way of operating subsidy was increased by 23.7%.

    There certainly remains a lot more that needs to be done to resolve the problems with public transport in this country and the jobs not even close to being half done, but the levels of investment in the service are much better than they were several years ago.


  • #229
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    devnull wrote: »
    There certainly remains a lot more that needs to be done to resolve the problems with public transport in this country and the jobs not even close to being half done, but the levels of investment in the service are much better than they were several years ago.

    So at least then you are admitting to poor investment in the service for many years and now we are playing catch-up at a relatively poor rate of return!

    As for €100m according to these guys a new bus costs in excess of €300k
    so 30 buses for the sake of argument averages out at about one per county!

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-bus-to-sell-84-double-decker-buses-under-upgrade-plan-1.2548496


  • #230
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,139 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    TheQuietFella wrote: »
    So at least then you are admitting to poor investment in the service for many years and now we are playing catch-up at a relatively poor rate of return!

    As for €100m according to these guys a new bus costs in excess of €300k
    so 30 buses for the sake of argument averages out at about one per county!

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-bus-to-sell-84-double-decker-buses-under-upgrade-plan-1.2548496


    not forgetting as well that there were supposibly redundantsies at bus eireann.
    devnull wrote: »
    Bus Eireann issues seem to be largely related to the fact that the number of staff on sick leave at any one time recently is approx quadruple the national average, if this was not the case the issues with these routes would be at least much reduced if not eliminated altogether.

    we don't know if it is a "fact" though. it's a claim by the company that may or may not be true. so in my opinion "allegedly" should be put in as part of your statement.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.



  • #231
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    end of the road wrote: »
    not forgetting as well that there were supposibly redundancies at bus eireann.

    we don't know if it is a "fact" though. it's a claim by the company that may or may not be true. so in my opinion "allegedly" should be put in as part of your statement.

    I would be surprised if they could afford them but as both companies are short staffed, what contingency plans are in place to cover this eventuality should it arise or will it be the typical Irish reaction 'lets wait and see what happens'


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  • #232
    horseburger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    devnull wrote: »
    https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1892153037769339&id=100009239844885[/url]



    Bus Eireann have since confirmed that the figures quoted by Regina Doherty are correct and have not disputed them according to an article which was posted on the RTE website yesterday

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/1013/912151-sipu-criticise-regina-doherty-over-bus-eireann-claim/

    Thanks devnull, I already saw the photo of her with Ray Hernan.

    The point I was making was that she is now giving the impression that she thinks so highly of the company that she sees fit to get herself photographed with they guy who is acting CEO of the company, but when it is convenient to her, she will issue press statements doing all she can to criticise Bus Éireann and The NTA, and without realizing it, she will display her ignorance and lack of knowledge about routes operated by Bus Éireann, routes operated with the co-operation of The NTA, including the services operated in her own local area.

    She did not make any attempt, to find out the views of the drivers, on this issue, before she made the claim, so any comment she makes on the issue is going to be one sided.

    The claims made by her against the drivers, have been responded to, on her facebook page, in comments, under the two particular facebook items she posted, of her, pictured with Ray Hernan.

    She has not responded to many of the points made, in reply, to her accusation against drivers. These posts, in response to her, give details on how the bus services operate.

    https://www.facebook.com/reginadoherty.ie/posts/1147754588691096
    https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1892153037769339&id=100009239844885

    Numerous posts state that Bus Éireann had not put in place the required resources, needed to operate the NX service, before implementing the new NX timetable on 17th September.

    As I understand it, drivers had indicated to Bus Éireann management, before the NX service was introduced, that it was going to be very difficult to operate a service with a frequency of every 20 minutes to and from Dublin and Navan throughout the day and evening, without encountering issues, including delays, due to traffic congestion, which would have a knock on effect on later services of the NX route, each day and evening.

    I would be inclined to trust the details, given by drivers, over anything stated by Regina Doherty, on this issue of bus services.

    There are insighful responses in the Journal items, to Regina Doherty's charge against the drivers, responses which give details on how the bus services operate. There are also posts by other people, who display their ignorance, in their attempts, at vilifying the drivers.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/bus-eireann-north-east-absenteeism-3645281-Oct2017/

    http://www.thejournal.ie/unions-bus-eireann-regina-doherty-3644945-Oct2017/


  • #233
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,139 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    TheQuietFella wrote: »
    I would be surprised if they could afford them but as both companies are short staffed, what contingency plans are in place to cover this eventuality should it arise or will it be the typical Irish reaction 'lets wait and see what happens'

    god only knows i guess.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.



  • #234
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,684 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    TheQuietFella wrote: »
    So at least then you are admitting to poor investment in the service for many years and now we are playing catch-up at a relatively poor rate of return!

    The problem was over a number of years the country was broke and therefore could not afford the investment required, but even before the country was broke there was no real proper direction of how money was spent and no accountability over what it should deliver with a lot of dithering and political interference.
    As for €100m according to these guys a new bus costs in excess of €300k
    so 30 buses for the sake of argument averages out at about one per county!

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-bus-to-sell-84-double-decker-buses-under-upgrade-plan-1.2548496

    There are so many incorrect things with your post and claims that I do not know where to start to be frank, but suffice to say your maths is seriously flawed.

    €316k x 30 = €9.48m

    That leaves you with still €90m to spend. That's before you take into account that not all vehicles that have been purchased have been for Dublin Bus (who have been getting approx 100 a year) and there have been some tri-axle Bus EIreann Double Deck Coaches that would be considerably more expensive and a large number of City buses and single deck coaches delivered for Bus Eireann.
    end of the road wrote: »
    we don't know if it is a "fact" though. it's a claim by the company that may or may not be true. so in my opinion "allegedly" should be put in as part of your statement.

    The company have said it and to my knowledge the union have not disputed that it is true.


  • #235
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,684 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    horseburger wrote: »
    The point I was making was that she is now giving the impression that she thinks so highly of the company that she sees fit to get herself photographed with they guy who is acting CEO of the company, but when it is convenient to her, she will issue press statements doing all she can to criticise Bus Éireann and The NTA, and without realizing it, she will display her ignorance and lack of knowledge about routes operated by Bus Éireann, routes operated with the co-operation of The NTA, including the services operated in her own local area.

    She wasn't the only politician to air her view on this, James Lawless of Fianna Fail has also given the same view, as with any issue like this, different people are going to have different views: http://kfmradio.com/news/14102017-1628/kildare-td-claims-kilcock-and-naas-commuters-being-affected-alleged-unofficial
    The claims made by her against the drivers, have been responded to, on her facebook page, in comments, under the two particular facebook items she posted, of her, pictured with Ray Hernan.

    She has not responded to many of the points made, in reply, to her accusation against drivers. These posts, in response to her, give details on how the bus services operate.

    Personally I wouldn't dignify some of the comments on that Facebook thread with responses either because of the amount of profanities and vulgar comments that have been used, and I'd suggest that the drivers would come across a lot better if they did not have to resort to that kind of thing.

    Like with most things, people will always have differing opinions on these things, one thing is for sure though that the current situation needs to be dealt with and BE need to start delivering the services they are paid to do so, but drivers also have to realise that due to the companies position, rosters are going to have to be more efficient than before the recent strike.


  • #236
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Just to note: focusing on a person's post, tackling their claims and the math contained within posts is not personal abuse.

    Personal abuse / focus is focusing on who the person is, their postings across threads, trying to say or imply who their are etc etc.

    -- monument


  • #237
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,139 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    devnull wrote: »
    The company have said it and to my knowledge the union have not disputed that it is true.

    that doesn't make the claim true. the drivers are innocent until proven guilty.
    devnull wrote: »
    Personally I wouldn't dignify some of the comments on that Facebook thread with responses either because of the amount of profanities and vulgar comments that have been used, and I'd suggest that the drivers would come across a lot better if they did not have to resort to that kind of thing.

    much of the comments have been removed. however, there was 1 sturrer making claims against drivers on there with no evidence and correctly he was challenged. agreed the language wasn't needed but i can't imagine most of us would take kindly to being told about our job or having allegations made against us by people who don't know us or anything about our job.
    devnull wrote: »
    Like with most things, people will always have differing opinions on these things, one thing is for sure though that the current situation needs to be dealt with and BE need to start delivering the services they are paid to do so, but drivers also have to realise that due to the companies position, rosters are going to have to be more efficient than before the recent strike.

    what about the NTA, implementing a service when there wasn't the resources to do it. they don't get off here. i don't believe the staff have a problem with changing the rosters, it's more the changes being implemented.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.



  • #238
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,684 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    end of the road wrote: »
    that doesn't make the claim true. the drivers are innocent until proven guilty

    much of the comments have been removed. however, there was 1 sturrer making claims against drivers on there with no evidence and correctly he was challenged. agreed the language wasn't needed but i can't imagine most of us would take kindly to being told about our job or having allegations made against us by people who don't know us or anything about our job.

    So you won't believe official remarks from Bus Eireann, who would be the only ones that would have the true figures to hand, but you'll believe someone on Facebook posting without any question whatsoever?
    what about the NTA, implementing a service when there wasn't the resources to do it. they don't get off here. i don't believe the staff have a problem with changing the rosters, it's more the changes being implemented.

    Maybe because the level of staff sickness is impacting the level of resources that are avaliable in order to deliver the service and if staff sickness was at normal levels the service could be delivered?


  • #239
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,139 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    devnull wrote: »
    So you won't believe official remarks from Bus Eireann, who would be the only ones that would have the true figures to hand, but you'll believe someone on Facebook posting without any question whatsoever?

    i won't simply believe someone posting on facebook no . however when what they say goes with what i have heard from titbits on here and elsewhere i won'tsimply dismiss it either.
    devnull wrote: »
    Maybe because the level of staff sickness is impacting the level of resources that are avaliable in order to deliver the service and if staff sickness was at normal levels the service could be delivered?

    the sickness issue is aledged, the staff are entitled to the presumption of innocence until proven guilty of the claims made by the company in my view.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.



  • #240
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,684 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    end of the road wrote: »
    however when what they say goes with what i have heard from titbits on here and elsewhere i won'tsimply dismiss it either.

    Can you supply sources for this to back up your claims?
    the sickness issue is aledged, the staff are entitled to the presumption of innocence until proven guilty of the claims made by the company in my view.

    The company is the official source of sickness records so I'm unsure of what you are asking for here, since these people would be the only ones who could say for sure what the sickness rate was since these are the only ones with access to the information.

    Operational staff members and the unions would not have access to HR files in a company about sickness and absence levels so any figures that they would supply would be purely based on guesswork.

    The fact that to date the unions have not directly challenged the sickness figures is very telling. If I was a union and such incorrect claims were made about my members I'd directly say they were not true, but they haven't.


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  • #241
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    end of the road wrote: »
    i won't simply believe someone posting on facebook no . however when what they say goes with what i have heard from titbits on here and elsewhere i won't simply dismiss it either.

    The sickness issue is aledged, the staff are entitled to the presumption of innocence until proven guilty of the claims made by the company in my view.

    It's probably a bit O/T,but I suspect neither side wishes to have too much light shone into the dark corner of Bus & Coach Drivers health,particularly when "Optimization" of Drivers hours is the new buzzword in the halls of management .

    What research is being done,is throwing up some rather worrying statistics in terms of Bus & Coach driving being regarded as a "Hazardous Occupation",a classification which,I suspect,neither Minister Doherty nor CEO Ray Hernan would be too keen to currently enter into much discussion about.

    http://www.ilo.org/safework/info/publications/WCMS_250105/lang--en/index.htm

    https://www.atu.org/media/news/driving-a-bus-is-harzardous-to-your-health
    Transit work is one of the top three jobs in which you face the highest risk of contracting 10 common diseases. Job-related hazards also contribute to the fact that these workers have :eek:120%:eek: above the average rate for 9 chronic diseases.
    The scariest finding: 41.5% of the transit workers had hypertension (high blood pressure), compared to 27.6% for all the 214,413 workers studied. High blood pressure leads to all kinds of other health problems, including heart attacks and strokes.


    With the specific rostering/scheduling issues now coming to light on the 109/NX,it should not surprise people when staff become wary of working shifts regularly in excess of 12 hours duty time (not all of which is DRIVING time).

    The entire Bus & Coach in the UK and Ireland industry is suffering a serious and prolonged Shortage of Drivers.

    There are a number of contributory factors,including the age at which one can accquire a "D" Class Licence,the added DCPC Qualifications required to work as a Bus/Coach driver and the fact that the shift patterns and hours expected of a Public Transport Service Driver are far from what most 21 year old + people wish to work,and most 45 year old + people are able to work.

    Historically,the industry has tended to solve this conundrum,by employing a high-turnover model,which focused upon poor wage rates,high overtime availability and an expectation that staff would work all the hours God gave them,with no oul nonsense about Family or Work/Life balance stuff.

    The opening of the EU labour market,did,for a time,provide the Industry with a ready supply of such young "no questions asked" staff,who have little problem with living in Portacabin,s within Depot complexes and going directly from bunk to cab,often 7 days a week for months on end.

    Some Driving staff,when when Family issues or other normal elements of life intervened,would be treated to lectures about how "the Polish/Slovak/Bulgarian lads etc, are great,no oul shyte about time-off and the rest" whilst "you Irish are forever whinging and demanding stuff instead of being glad to have a job".

    You'll not have to scratch a shiny new Irish Coach's paintwork too deeply before the above style of stories begin to be heard,with a worrying regularity and corroborating commonality between them.

    It is entirely up to the individual whether they want to consider,accept or reject any of this stuff,as most people simply wish their Bus to turn up at the appointed time and get them home safely.

    However,if anything positive does come out of this current (entirely avoidable) scenario,it will be that a few more people,customers,staff and legislators will perhaps develop a curiousity about how such services,widely regarded as basic and necessary,are actually provided,in human terms.

    With the current focus on Hurricanes and the rest,I would suggest that any possibility of your inbound Driver tomorrrow,having booked on at 0350,being the same Driver to be welcoming you back on board at 1500,for your journey home,should at least be of some interest to a potential passenger,irrespective of operator.

    Any notion that Bus/Coach drivers operate to the same regime as their Vehicles and,as such, can therefore be "Optimized" in the same manner,is one doomed to failure,for sure. :(


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #242
    horseburger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    devnull wrote: »
    She wasn't the only politician to air her view on this, James Lawless of Fianna Fail has also given the same view, as with any issue like this, different people are going to have different views: http://kfmradio.com/news/14102017-1628/kildare-td-claims-kilcock-and-naas-commuters-being-affected-alleged-unofficial



    Personally I wouldn't dignify some of the comments on that Facebook thread with responses either because of the amount of profanities and vulgar comments that have been used, and I'd suggest that the drivers would come across a lot better if they did not have to resort to that kind of thing.

    Like with most things, people will always have differing opinions on these things, one thing is for sure though that the current situation needs to be dealt with and BE need to start delivering the services they are paid to do so, but drivers also have to realise that due to the companies position, rosters are going to have to be more efficient than before the recent strike.

    Public representatives just say in press statements what they think their possible voters might like. It doesn't mean that the public representative knows much about the issue concerned.

    Perhaps some of the comments, that defended the positions of the drivers, were quite forthright, but the presumptions made by some of the posters against Bus Éireann drivers - as a result of the unhelpful and divisive comments made by Regina Doherty - were particularly ill-informed and ignorant, with regard to how the Bus Éireann services are operated.

    Regina Doherty regularly issues divisive statements to make her appeal to possible voters. This recent statement is yet another example of that, where she didn't bother getting the views of drivers, to find out the details of their perspective on the issue.

    Another very interesting example is where on the morning before the 2016 election, Regina Doherty - just before the media coverage moratorium came into effect, on Thursday 25th February 2016 - in an interview with Michael Reade on LMFM, Regina Doherty made comments regarding her political relationship with constituency colleague Helen McEntee. Regina Doherty did as much as she could, in that interview, to cast Helen McEntee in a negative light. I think that she did this, because at that time, it had been suggested, that Regina Doherty might lose her seat to Darren O'Rourke of Sinn Féin.

    Michael Reade, the presenter, had stated to Regina Doherty that he had heard reports that neither were co-operating in a canvass strategy. At first Regina Doherty said that that was not true, but then she completely contradicted that, by talking about how in 2011, that she and Shane McEntee had managed the canvass so well, in co-operation with each other, that when they were elected, they got within a few hundred votes of each other. Then Regina Doherty stated, that she was sorry to say, that that wasn't the case this time - during the 2016 campaign. Regina Doherty suggested that Helen McEntee was not co-operating with her, in the way that she said that Shane McEntee did, in the 2011 general election. She insinuated that Helen McEntee was encroaching on her area, in the canvassing for that 2016 election, suggesting that Helen McEntee wasn't co-operating with her, in managing the canvass. The interview was conducted live, just before the moratorium came into effect, meaning that Helen McEntee did not have time to respond.

    I think Regina Doherty made these comments, to try and take votes from Helen McEntee, because there were suggestions, at that time, that Regina Doherty was going to lose her seat to Darren O'Rourke of Sinn Féin.


  • #243
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,684 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    horseburger wrote: »
    Public representatives just say in press statements what they think their possible voters might like.

    Of course they do, but this happens on all sides of politics, on the left and the right, it's not just restricted to Regina, it's how it happens to work in politics in general and the unions will also be saying what people who they think would support them would like as well, hence why they keep seeming to not notice that the year is 2017 rather than 2015 because it won't help their arguments.
    Perhaps some of the comments, that defended the positions of the drivers, were quite forthright, but the presumptions made by some of the posters against Bus Éireann drivers, as a result of the unhelpful and divisive comments by Regina Doherty - were particularly ill-informed and ignorant, with regard to how the Bus Éireann services are operated.

    The use of profanity is something I could never defend myself, if you're having a debate with another side it's possible to have that debate without having to be uncivil to each other, the fact that they have chosen not to, in my view doesn't help their cause whatsoever.


  • #244
    horseburger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    devnull wrote: »
    Of course they do, but this happens on all sides of politics, on the left and the right, it's not just restricted to Regina, it's how it happens to work in politics in general and the unions will also be saying what people who they think would support them would like as well, hence why they keep seeming to not notice that the year is 2017 rather than 2015 because it won't help their arguments.



    The use of profanity is something I could never defend myself, if you're having a debate with another side it's possible to have that debate without having to be uncivil to each other, the fact that they have chosen not to, in my view doesn't help their cause whatsoever.

    The forthright comments were in response to posters who hadn't a clue what they were talking about. I could understand a driver, or anyone else, getting impatient with people who just unquestioningly believed what was claimed by Regina Doherty in her unhelpful and divisive comments.


  • #245
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,684 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    horseburger wrote: »
    The forthright comments were in response to posters who hadn't a clue what they were talking about.

    Being abusive and uncivil to people as they have a different opinion to someone is not the best tactics in a discussion if you ask me, they had their views, other people have others, at the end of the day, people will see things from different angles depending on their viewpoints. Staying cool and making a rational discussion and point is preferable to resorting to profanity and name calling.
    I could understand a driver, or anyone else, getting impatient with people who just unquestioningly believed what was claimed by Regina Doherty in her unhelpful and divisive comments.

    But some of what Regina said was confirmed by Bus Eireann and she was far from the only TD to make claims in relation to it being unofficial industrial action as I outlined earlier.


  • #246
    horseburger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    devnull wrote: »
    Being abusive and uncivil to people as they have a different opinion to someone is not the best tactics in a discussion if you ask me, they had their views, other people have others, at the end of the day, people will see things from different angles depending on their viewpoints.



    But some of what Regina said was confirmed by Bus Eireann and she was far from the only TD to make claims in relation to it being unofficial industrial action as I outlined earlier.

    That still doesn't mean that she and other TDs are correct in suggesting that it is unofficial industrial action.

    Public representatives just state in public what they think their possible voters want them to say. The details she got from Bus Éireann was never going to portray whoever it was that gave her that information, in a negative light. Just as with what happened earlier this year, press statements are written to deflect responsibility and in this case it appears that the attempt is being made to portray drivers in a negative way.

    The viewpoints of some of the comments by posters against drivers were ignorant. Just because they have a viewpoint, it doesn't mean they know what they are talking about.

    I did notice that Regina Doherty has not responded to the particular comments, which included relevant details on how the bus services are operated, that challenge what she claimed about drivers.


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  • #247
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,684 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    horseburger wrote: »
    That still doesn't mean that she and other TDs are correct in suggesting that it is unofficial industrial action.

    I never said it was correct - it's simply her opinion and the opinion of at least one other TD who has spoke publicly about the same issue in the media.

    At the end of the day, there are a variety of TDs in Ireland from across the political spectrum, it should be no surprise that the opinion of such TDs would be varied also.
    Public representatives just state in public what they think their possible voters want them to say.

    I don't dispute that at all, but this goes with all politicians and with all groups of people, especially when there is a dispute, people will speak to their target audience, this isn't just restricted to Ireland, it happens in the US, the UK and most countries really.


  • #248
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,684 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    I notice that you edited this bit in to your previous post several minutes after I replied to your post, so I'll tackle it here.
    The details she got from Bus Éireann was never going to portray whoever it was that gave her that information, in a negative light. Just as with what happened earlier this year, press statements are written to deflect responsibility and in this case it appears that the attempt is being made to portray drivers in a negative way.

    Just as the same way the information that the drivers and unions put out are not going to portray them into a negative light, and press statements from the unions will be written to deflect responsibility from the drivers, it can be argued both ways around, which is why I often say the truth is often in the middle.


  • #249
    horseburger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    devnull wrote: »
    I notice that you edited this bit in to your previous post several minutes after I replied to your post, so I'll tackle it here.



    Just as the same way the information that the drivers and unions put out are not going to portray them into a negative light, and press statements from the unions will be written to deflect responsibility from the drivers, it can be argued both ways around, which is why I often say the truth is often in the middle.

    The issue is, why did Regina Doherty take one side on this issue. Wouldn't she have been better off trying to find out as much detail as possible from both sides, before making any statements at all? She didn't do that. She took one side and made unhelpful divisive unhelpful statements.

    Very true devnull, I edited the post because when I am typing something, I post it, so that I won't lose the text. You may have also noticed that I was editing the post, at exactly the same time as you had replied to me, so what happened was, that when I posted my edited post, I hadn't yet seen your reply to my original post.

    There is no need to suggest that I did anything sinister, thanks very much. What I was actually doing was trying to find that LMFM interview from Thursday 25th February 2016, that I referenced in the earlier post, to include a link to the interview, but I did not find it yet, I think because it seems that the archive of shows of The Michael Reade Show, do not seem to go back as far as it did, before the LMFM website was updated sometime last year.

    Therefore, I had not seen your reply before I edited my post.


  • #250
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,684 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    horseburger wrote: »
    The issue is, why did Regina Doherty takes one side on this issue. Wouldn't she have been better off trying to find out as much detail as possible from both sides, before making any statements?

    People always take sides on issues, there is nothing sinister about that, it's called having an opinion, maybe she doesn't believe the unions or the drivers just as the unions and drivers do not believe Bus Eireann? There are two sides to every story
    Very true devnull, I edited the post because when I am typing something, I post it, so that I won't lose the text. You may have also noticed that I was editing the post, at exactly the same time as you had replied to me, so what happened was, that when I posted my edited post, I hadn't yet seen your reply to my original post. There is no need to suggest that I did anything sinister, thanks very much.

    I never suggested that you did anything sinister, I was simply stating a fact to make it clear that when I made my original post the text which I quoted was not there to be transparent about it, that is all.


  • #251
    horseburger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭horseburger


    devnull wrote: »
    People always take sides on issues, there is nothing sinister about that, it's called having an opinion, maybe she doesn't believe the unions or the drivers just as the unions and drivers do not believe Bus Eireann? There are two sides to every story



    I never suggested that you did anything sinister, I was simply stating a fact to make it clear that when I made my original post the text which I quoted was not there to be transparent about it, that is all.

    And I have detailed why I had not seen your reply - to the post I had written - before I added to my original post.

    Indeed, people do take sides, but many of those who make comments and have opinions, aren't in the position of responsibility, in the way that public representatives from a current government, are.

    I would have thought a government minister would have a bit more cop on, than to just take one side, on an issue like this, where she followed up her stance, by issuing divisive statements.


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