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Second Captains Part II

13567…172

Comments

  • #102
    Cienciano
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,310 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    humberklog wrote: »
    I can hear new Giles audio bed already.

    Over on The Stand with Dunphy they had a pop and a laugh at Ken... "he mustn't know much about football". They didn't mention Ken by name, didn't need to.

    From the 2 guys that for years were telling us Ronaldo was shíte


  • #103
    EltonJohn69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭EltonJohn69


    Ken got hit hard again today.... I would say his nerves are shot.


  • #104
    cmac2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭cmac2009


    EltonJohn69 wrote: »
    Ken got hit hard again today.... I would say his nerves are shot.

    Liked the cancellation threat that Ken threw at Tim after that atrocious Irish accent attempt.


  • #105
    Cienciano
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,310 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Dunphy also supported John Delaney up until recent enough.

    They need Richie on tomorrow. His bit on PSG and RB Leipzig has gone viral


  • #106
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Cienciano wrote: »
    Dunphy also supported John Delaney up until recent enough.

    They need Richie on tomorrow. His bit on PSG and RB Leipzig has gone viral

    He’s been retweeting it just in case it doesn’t.


  • #107
    Jim Root
    Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭Jim Root


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    He’s been retweeting it just in case it doesn’t.


    Meeeowww


  • #108
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,810 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    cmac2009 wrote: »
    Liked the cancellation threat that Ken threw at Tim after that atrocious Irish accent attempt.

    I've always found it bewildering that foreigners use that leprechaun accent to imitate all Irish people. I remember Michael Palin doing it to mimic Bob Geldof. Do the likes of Ken and Bob really sound like Barry Fitzgerald in The Quiet Man to outsiders?

    Also, I never knew Murph had played in a Galway county final. I wonder was he really as bad as Ken intimates. They only lost by a few points...


  • #109
    DukeCaboom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭DukeCaboom


    Loafing Oaf wrote: »
    I've always found it bewildering that foreigners use that leprechaun accent to imitate all Irish people. I remember Michael Palin doing it to mimic Bob Geldof. Do the likes of Ken and Bob really sound like Barry Fitzgerald in The Quiet Man to outsiders?

    Also, I never knew Murph had played in a Galway county final. I wonder was he really as bad as Ken intimates. They only lost by a few points...

    Think he played Galway u21 football.

    When they wer on the radio they'd a bed from local Galway radio of a match murf played in. Something like "ciaran Murphy from on the ball or off the ball"


  • #110
    thenightman
    Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭thenightman


    Another appearance by 'Migs' this week, ugh! I'd rather they had Richie on to talk about sportswashing etc, seeing as he got more attention with his 60 seconds on RTE than Delaney will ever receive writing his disjointed articles and being annoyingly inarticulate whenever he's interviewed!


  • #111
    healy1835
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭healy1835


    It's weeks like this one where you really appreciate what Ian McDimwit brings to proceedings.


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  • #112
    Salvation Tambourine
    Registered Users Posts: 932 ✭✭✭Salvation Tambourine


    I really enjoyed the sports washing chat yesterday. It was nice to see people challenge the views of 'sports washing is evil'. Rory seemed to think it's just not worth it and doesn't really work whereas Miguel thinks it most definitely does work even if we don't know it.

    It's hard to judge because we don't just hear about Qatar and the UAE because of football, it's just a part of the overall advertising strategy.


  • #113
    Hynzieh
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭Hynzieh


    I didn't think it was great. There were a lot of highly contentious claims presented as if they were indisputable facts. Like when Rory Smith started going on about how vulture capitalist owners are essentially fine and how people like (large-scale political donor) Stan Kroenke are separate from politics because they are not directly involved in government (a totally naive understanding of how power and money work in the US). Or when Delaney made the claim that using a club to promote your state is exploiting people's 'childlike love of football' but buying a club just so that some already very wealth people can make yet more money off it is somehow not. Ken did challenge some of these points but he'd didn't go hard enough IMO. In fairness, he probably didn't want to totally derail the interview but I am frustrated by how narrow and lazy the conversation about money in football has become.

    I agree with the general criticism of the owners of PSG and Man City (for obvious reasons) but, ironically, for all the talk of 'sports washing' the only thing that is getting 'washed' in these conversations is the reputation of the other terrible, non Gulf state owners of football clubs. I fear there is a danger of people starting to think that the problem with morally dubious money in football starts and ends with the Gulf states. Take Smith's claim about the relative harmlessness of vulture capitalist investment. Has anyone heard even a hint of criticism from football journalists of the vulture fund (Elliott Management) that bought AC Milan in 2018? They have made money in some really nasty ways (Google the Guardian article titled: "Vulture funds await Jersey decision on poor countries' debts").

    Again, I don't say any of that in defense of Qatar or the UAE, they are clearly horrible and need to be called out, but the moral argument these lads are trying to make doesn't have much weight to it if anything short of what the Gulf states do is essentially given a pass or if investment from sources closer to home is given no scrutiny whatsoever.


  • #114
    Brock Turnpike
    Registered Users Posts: 3,756 ✭✭✭Brock Turnpike


    Hynzieh wrote: »
    I didn't think it was great. There were a lot of highly contentious claims presented as if they were indisputable facts. Like when Rory Smith started going on about how vulture capitalist owners are essentially fine and how people like (large-scale political donor) Stan Kroenke are separate from politics because they are not directly involved in government (a totally naive understanding of how power and money work in the US). Or when Delaney made the claim that using a club to promote your state is exploiting people's 'childlike love of football' but buying a club just so that some already very wealth people can make yet more money off it is somehow not. Ken did challenge some of these points but he'd didn't go hard enough IMO. In fairness, he probably didn't want to totally derail the interview but I am frustrated by how narrow and lazy the conversation about money in football has become.

    I agree with the general criticism of the owners of PSG and Man City (for obvious reasons) but, ironically, for all the talk of 'sports washing' the only thing that is getting 'washed' in these conversations is the reputation of the other terrible, non Gulf state owners of football clubs. I fear there is a danger of people starting to think that the problem with morally dubious money in football starts and ends with the Gulf states. Take Smith's claim about the relative harmlessness of vulture capitalist investment. Has anyone heard even a hint of criticism from football journalists of the vulture fund (Elliott Management) that bought AC Milan in 2018? They have made money in some really nasty ways (Google the Guardian article titled: "Vulture funds await Jersey decision on poor countries' debts").

    Again, I don't say any of that in defense of Qatar or the UAE, they are clearly horrible and need to be called out, but the moral argument these lads are trying to make doesn't have much weight to it if anything short of what the Gulf states do is essentially given a pass or if investment from sources closer to home is given no scrutiny whatsoever.

    In fairness to the SC lads, they had James Montague on to talk about his book "The Billionaires Club" when it was realised a couple of years ago. I'd recommend it if you haven't read it before. It covers not just the Gulf but owners from all over the world and how they got their wealth


  • #115
    Hynzieh
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭Hynzieh


    Brock Turnpike wrote: »
    In fairness to the SC lads, they had James Montague on to talk about his book "The Billionaires Club" when it was realised a couple of years ago. I'd recommend it if you haven't read it before. It covers not just the Gulf but owners from all over the world and how they got their wealth

    No shade meant to the SC lads for yesterday. Like I said, I think Ken did push back a bit, my issue is more with what Delaney and Smith were saying.

    I remember that Montague interview, it was very good as you said. The problem is that that's one interview among the countless mentions of the Gulf money. They should be covering the Qataris at the moment with PSG being in the final but (correct me if I'm wrong) Delaney has been writing Gulf state focused articles for well over a year now.

    I'm definitively not trying to paint the Gulf states as some sort of victim here, I'm glad they are getting scrutiny, but at some point you would think a good journalist would widen the net a bit. For me, not doing so is a sign of either intellectual laziness or a sheltered worldview in which all the really bad money comes from out foreign.


  • #116
    the_bigman
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭the_bigman


    Miguel has done loads on all different kinds of ownership, to be fair - including English. It's been a fairly big theme of his. And he went to town on Red Bull the other day.

    It stands to reason they'd be discussing Gulf states, when it is one of the major Gulf sportswashing projects in the final.

    And there are degrees of evil here.

    Outright human rights abuses and migrant worker deaths are more direct and worse than many of the effects of the worst types of capitalism.


  • #117
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    the_bigman wrote: »
    Miguel has done loads on all different kinds of ownership, to be fair - including English. It's been a fairly big theme of his. And he went to town on Red Bull the other day.

    It stands to reason they'd be discussing Gulf states, when it is one of the major Gulf sportswashing projects in the final.

    And there are degrees of evil here.

    Outright human rights abuses and migrant worker deaths are more direct and worse than many of the effects of the worst types of capitalism.

    Miguel is so hard to listen to he is so incoherent. I wish SC would have higher quality contributors than him


  • #118
    Hynzieh
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭Hynzieh


    the_bigman wrote: »
    Miguel has done loads on all different kinds of ownership, to be fair - including English. It's been a fairly big theme of his. And he went to town on Red Bull the other day.

    It stands to reason they'd be discussing Gulf states, when it is one of the major Gulf sportswashing projects in the final.

    And there are degrees of evil here.

    Outright human rights abuses and migrant worker deaths are more direct and worse than many of the effects of the worst types of capitalism.

    I disagree. A lot of the projects in Qatar are being developed by western, privately owned construction firms. So in no way can the exploitation of those workers be separated from capitalism or even western capitalism. Furthermore, capitalism and exploitation are in no way mutually exclusive, especially in the developing world. Just look at Bangladesh. Over 1,000 people were killed in that factory collapse in 2013 while making products in horrendous conditions for companies such as H&M and Walmart (connected to the Kroenke family, don't forget).

    On the point about degrees of evil, let's consider the lads who own AC Milan (Elliott). They go around buying sovereign debt second hand for dirt cheap and then sue some of the poorest countries in the world to get full re-payments. Former UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown described the practice as "morally outrageous". The World Bank called vulture funds like Elliott "a threat to debt relief efforts". Their actions also scare away potential investors making it even harder for these countries to build up their economies. That has a direct effect on millions of people in some of the world's poorest countries.

    Then you could mention Abramovich, a somewhat forgotten figure these days. He 'made' his fortune in the insanely corrupt and disastrous "shock therapy" economic reforms of the 90's that was foisted upon the former Soviet countries by the west. Many economists estimate that millions more people died than would have been the case if the pre-transition economic trends had continued. This was due to unemployment, mental stress caused by economic insecurity, a sharp rise in alcoholism and other health problems.

    So these are not people who made their money in abstract, benign ways. They are very connected to politics and their actions have directly and adversely affected the lives of millions of people. The Gulf states aren't some outlier evil among football owners. There are at least a handful of others who are on their level.


  • #119
    Say Your Number
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,780 Mod ✭✭✭✭Say Your Number


    Not a fan of all the snooker bashing this week :(


  • #120
    Beersmith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭Beersmith


    Good episode yesterday. The kenny talking cabbage comment and the coombe raider section at the end was very funny


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  • #121
    healy1835
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Ken's naked contempt for Jason McAteer was pretty funny. And justified.


  • #122
    Brock Turnpike
    Registered Users Posts: 3,756 ✭✭✭Brock Turnpike


    healy1835 wrote: »
    Ken's naked contempt for Jason McAteer was pretty funny. And justified.

    Very amusing.

    Was a bit disappointed with Gavan Cooney as a contributor. Seemed more concerned with what social media had to say about Katie's fight than the actual fight, to the point Eoin was having to steer him back towards talking about the fight and the opinion of the pundits.


  • #123
    Salvation Tambourine
    Registered Users Posts: 932 ✭✭✭Salvation Tambourine


    Brock Turnpike wrote: »
    Very amusing.

    Was a bit disappointed with Gavan Cooney as a contributor. Seemed more concerned with what social media had to say about Katie's fight than the actual fight, to the point Eoin was having to steer him back towards talking about the fight and the opinion of the pundits.

    General question if anyone knows. Do pundits in other sports, such as boxing, have more respect than pundits in football? Most people seem to think football pundits are, by in large, useless.

    It's something I wonder about when an Olympics is on. Someone commentating on freestyle diving definitely knows more about it than me but they could easily just be talking nonsense in the same way that someone that doesn't follow football might think Danny Mills isn't a massive prick.


  • #124
    Obrieski
    Registered Users Posts: 457 ✭✭Obrieski


    Brock Turnpike wrote: »

    Was a bit disappointed with Gavan Cooney as a contributor. Seemed more concerned with what social media had to say about Katie's fight than the actual fight, to the point Eoin was having to steer him back towards talking about the fight and the opinion of the pundits.

    I thought both of them were at it to be honest. Eoin was asking a lot of questions too about the media, questions relating to last time etc which led GC to respond as he did. Obviously it was a talking point but felt there was at least 5 minutes too long talking about it than the fight itself.


  • #125
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's not really a sport where much happens so the reaction is probably the normal main talking point.


  • #126
    Brock Turnpike
    Registered Users Posts: 3,756 ✭✭✭Brock Turnpike


    Nokotan wrote: »
    General question if anyone knows. Do pundits in other sports, such as boxing, have more respect than pundits in football? Most people seem to think football pundits are, by in large, useless.

    It's something I wonder about when an Olympics is on. Someone commentating on freestyle diving definitely knows more about it than me but they could easily just be talking nonsense in the same way that someone that doesn't follow football might think Danny Mills isn't a massive prick.

    I think - and this is just my opinion on it - it likely comes across that way because most of us have probably never boxed or freestyle dived in our lives. Where as a huge amount of people watch and play football on a regular basis,and believe they have better knowledge and opinions on the game, and can spot the bluffers amongst the pundits.


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  • #127
    Salvation Tambourine
    Registered Users Posts: 932 ✭✭✭Salvation Tambourine


    Brock Turnpike wrote: »
    I think - and this is just my opinion on it - it likely comes across that way because most of us have probably never boxed or freestyle dived in our lives. Where as a huge amount of people watch and play football on a regular basis,and believe they have better knowledge and opinions on the game, and can spot the bluffers amongst the pundits.

    That's what I'm wondering, are there bluffers and spoofers commentating on the free style diving, fencing, squash and show jumping and I'm too ignorant to know or are the standard of pundits in those niche sports just better?


  • #128
    Brock Turnpike
    Registered Users Posts: 3,756 ✭✭✭Brock Turnpike


    Nokotan wrote: »
    That's what I'm wondering, are there bluffers and spoofers commentating on the free style diving, fencing, squash and show jumping and I'm too ignorant to know or are the standard of pundits in those niche sports just better?

    There are bluffers everywhere. Certainly in boxing, and you can see it on the boxing threads here, there are a lot of people who have no respect for the commentators/pundits as they are seen to be biased yours the fighters on the card that are with the main promoter.

    Then you have someone like Andy Lee who most people generally seem to like hearing talking about boxing*

    *Maybe less so after recent events


  • #129
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,635 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    I thought Gavin Cooney sounded like a man completely bluffing yesterday. Everything was vagueish and received wisdom. He sounded like a slightly more informed fan than a regular bar stooler, but it was pretty far from expert analysis.

    "She's probably set up for life" - after talking, vaguely, about Katie Taylor supposedly earning over a million a fight. But even the amount of money discussed sounded like it was a guessing game, that he'd read that on twitter, somewhere. Felt all of his contributions yesterday we're like that: no real insight, a bit PR like, stuff other people may have said.

    What did Katie do different: eh footwork, eh head movement, she didn't get as tired this time. Basic grade analysis.


  • #130
    Ivefoundgod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,449 ✭✭✭Ivefoundgod


    Nokotan wrote: »
    That's what I'm wondering, are there bluffers and spoofers commentating on the free style diving, fencing, squash and show jumping and I'm too ignorant to know or are the standard of pundits in those niche sports just better?

    In my experience of olympics coverage they usually try to get someone on RTE who has competed at a high level in the sport they are covering. For things like running, boxing etc. this usually isn't too hard but they struggle when it comes to the more niche sports and I find their coverage pretty poor when that happens. You're as well read up on it yourself at that stage.

    BBC on the other hand almost always have someone to hand but they're usually very heavily biased towards team GB athletes and so as a result you have to take what they say with a pinch of salt.

    Sky sports pundits IMO are pretty rubbish regardless of sport, they always come across more as hype men than wanting to actually analyse things. Neville can be good at times but Keane, Souness, Redknapp etc. are just caricatures at this stage. If Keane is on he will say something to be controversial, Souness usually the same and Redknapp is just a yes man. The boxing lads are no different IMO.

    Agree with Brock Turnpike, almost everyone has an opinion on football as they've played it at one time or another. Combine that with the often toxic fan culture in Ireland (e.g. Liverpool/Utd rivalry) and you'll get people bashing pundits constantly. Personally I never get too worked up about punditry as I rarely watch it, i'd much rather read twitter or websites to get previews/analysis so I don't really care what Keane, Duffer, Giles etc. have said about a game.


  • #131
    Beersmith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭Beersmith


    Beersmith wrote: »
    Good episode yesterday. The kenny talking cabbage comment and the coombe raider section at the end was very funny

    When i said great episode I did skip the boxing part! Ha!


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  • #132
    Obrieski
    Registered Users Posts: 457 ✭✭Obrieski


    First George Gibney episode was very good.
    Chilling at the thoughts of what’s to come.
    Brilliant work from Mark and crew


  • #133
    Still Ill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭Still Ill


    Obrieski wrote: »
    First George Gibney episode was very good.
    Chilling at the thoughts of what’s to come.
    Brilliant work from Mark and crew

    Kinda reminded me of Serial/S-town stylistically. Very well produced. Looking forward to it. Wish I was coming at it after it was finished so I could listen to a few at a time.


  • #134
    Raoul
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,791 ✭✭✭Raoul


    Definitely influenced by those podcasts. Less than half an hour though. I wonder will there be longer episodes or how many episodes will there be. It feels weird waiting a week for something.

    Really good though with some stomach turning moments in it too.


  • #135
    unplayable
    Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭unplayable


    Obrieski wrote: »
    First George Gibney episode was very good.
    Chilling at the thoughts of what’s to come.
    Brilliant work from Mark and crew

    was very good. listened to it driving in and out of work. i am invested in it and the characters already.


  • #136
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,635 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Anyone else find all the Messi talk a bit exasperating yesterday? I know it's a big story, but really does anyone actually believe he'll really end up leaving Barcelona in the end?


  • #137
    dr.kenneth noisewater
    Registered Users Posts: 5,706 ✭✭✭dr.kenneth noisewater


    Obrieski wrote: »
    First George Gibney episode was very good.
    Chilling at the thoughts of what’s to come.
    Brilliant work from Mark and crew

    Thread on it here: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058108080


  • #138
    boccy23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭boccy23


    Arghus wrote: »
    Anyone else find all the Messi talk a bit exasperating yesterday? I know it's a big story, but really does anyone actually believe he'll really end up leaving Barcelona in the end?

    Totally!


  • #139
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I had no idea who Gibney was until a quick Wikipedia search yesterday but the podcast itself is excellent.


  • #140
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,779 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Arghus wrote: »
    Anyone else find all the Messi talk a bit exasperating yesterday? I know it's a big story, but really does anyone actually believe he'll really end up leaving Barcelona in the end?

    It's absolute nonsense.


  • #141
    Xavi6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,898 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Brock Turnpike wrote: »
    Very amusing.

    Was a bit disappointed with Gavan Cooney as a contributor. Seemed more concerned with what social media had to say about Katie's fight than the actual fight, to the point Eoin was having to steer him back towards talking about the fight and the opinion of the pundits.

    Gavin Casey*. Gavin Cooney is the lad they have on to talk about the FAI and he's very good.


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  • #142
    dulpit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,404 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Raoul wrote: »
    Definitely influenced by those podcasts. Less than half an hour though. I wonder will there be longer episodes or how many episodes will there be. It feels weird waiting a week for something.

    Really good though with some stomach turning moments in it too.

    10 episodes according to Wednesday's pod


  • #143
    Hippo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,880 ✭✭✭Hippo


    Caitlin Thompson should replace US Murph. If she doesn't know anything about the NFL she can learn, great contributor.


  • #144
    humberklog
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭humberklog


    Hippo wrote: »
    Caitlin Thompson should replace US Murph. If she doesn't know anything about the NFL she can learn, great contributor.

    I don't mind US Murph but I don't really care about US sports. But Caitlin draws my into whatever she's talking about. Always excellent. Her and Eoin have a great rapport


  • #145
    yermandan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,068 ✭✭✭yermandan


    humberklog wrote: »
    I don't mind US Murph but I don't really care about US sports. But Caitlin draws my into whatever she's talking about. Always excellent. Her and Eoin have a great rapport

    Surely you mean Ewan


  • #146
    Beersmith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭Beersmith


    Hippo wrote: »
    Caitlin Thompson should replace US Murph. If she doesn't know anything about the NFL she can learn, great contributor.

    Agreed, getting very sick of US murphs shtick


  • #147
    sheroman01
    Registered Users Posts: 4,685 ✭✭✭sheroman01


    When you hear Ken and Eoin on the Where is George Gibney podcast :pac:

    kjSKRgz.jpg


  • #148
    Seamy Fitz
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭Seamy Fitz


    Beersmith wrote: »
    Agreed, getting very sick of US murphs shtick


    You don't know what you're talking about even if you have stayed alive for 60 odd years.


  • #149
    Beersmith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭Beersmith


    Were the guys suggesting an article ken wrote years ago was the first time the term farmers league was used?


  • #150
    Jim Root
    Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭Jim Root


    I thought the Maguire bits this week were a little smarmy/wankery/pious...


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  • #151
    Cienciano
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,310 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Jim Root wrote: »
    I thought the Maguire bits this week were a little smarmy/wankery/pious...

    Yeah, originally after reading the headlines I thought Harry Maguire was the usual drunken idiot but i genuinely believed him in the interview. Think he got ****ed over.


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