Denver Broncos Thread

Johnny_Fontane · 14-09-2011 7:54am

eagle eye wrote: »

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

No because Broncos fans and Tebow fans and you are right yeah?

I didn't say that. I personally believe he will make it as a QB in the NFL for reasons I've stated many times. I've never claimed to be the football guru who knows all though. I have my belief on the matter but its my opinion, the statement of fact attitude of some posters on here is just annoying. And some of them probably never had a football in their hands and probably were never at a real game.

Ortons record though is so poor.....3-14 in last two seasons that they need to do something.

SantryRed · 14-09-2011 11:14am

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

Ortons record though is so poor.....3-14 in last two seasons that they need to do something.

Hardly means it's his fault though?

tallaghtoutlaws · 14-09-2011 12:04pm

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

Ortons record though is so poor.....3-14 in last two seasons that they need to do something.

Yeah because QBs are the reason why teams lose all the time. Never mind the shocking o-line or the receivers that drop footballs or the running backs who couldn't punch their way out of a paper bag and a defense that get bitch slapped all day.

Chucky the tree · 14-09-2011 2:08pm

eagle eye wrote: »

The statement of fact sense that I get from your posts is just so annoying. Especially coming from somebody that has been so wrong in the past.

Only a blind person would rate Tebow ahead of Orton. Maybe someday I'll reach your zen like knowledge on the game. :pac:

D3PO · 14-09-2011 2:40pm

Totally agree with Tallaght here.

The Broncos lost because of a piss poor o line, terrible play calling and an anemic backfield.

Orton is by far and away the best QB on the Denver roster right now. I would rate Tebow ahead of Brady Quinn but hes not an NFL starting QB right now.

The NFL is a win now league. Fox would be off his trolley to start anybody bar Orton at the moment.

SantryRed · 14-09-2011 3:05pm

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byposition?pos=QB&conference=NFL&year=season_2010&timeframe=All&qualified=1&sort=49&old_category=QB

QB stats from last year for all NFL QBs.

eagle eye · 14-09-2011 3:31pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Only a blind person would rate Tebow ahead of Orton. Maybe someday I'll reach your zen like knowledge on the game. :pac:

Well going by what I seen of him last year I think he makes it. Going by stats of which there aren't many but his DVOA on FO was worse than only 9 other QBs in the league. While he didn't play enough to be included in the main rankings it was still impressive. Orton's DVOA was 17th best of those with a lot of passes.

spiralism · 14-09-2011 3:33pm

Le King wrote: »

Yeah, correct. I also know a few Denver fans who don't want Tebow either. I don't think Tebow is a great QB at all. In fact, he'd be eaten up IMO. But Orton isn't a good QB either. But if the team continues to fail it won't harm trying him out. Denver are a long way off being a respectable team atm.

exactly. what have we to lose? people can keep defending orton all they want but the fact remains that he's nothing more than a game manager on a shíte team and we have a QB that is at least capable of being something special. Whether he will be or not is another thing entirely, so why not found out? It's not only broncos fans who see the fault with orton either, look at this for example, its from a nfl betting site:

I really don't understand it. Kyle Orton is incredibly overrated because so many people love to say he's underrated. He's not accurate; he doesn't have a good arm; and he spontaneously combusts in the red zone and on third down. He's a solid game-manager, but that's it. He's not a tenth of the quarterback Tim Tebow is capable of becoming. He's actually the opposite; he shines in practice and isn't nearly as good in games, whereas Tebow struggles in practice, but knows how to pull off victories when it counts. Unless the Broncos' grand-master plan is to "Suck for Luck," they are being incredibly stupid.

I'm the only broncos fan that regularly posts here by the looks, yet i'm not the only one who thinks that we're going nowhere the way we're going, its proof that there's a considerable argument regarding himself and tebow and its not just a broncos thing

we should give Tebow a chance, even if it's like what Vic Lombardi suggests and play orton in between the 20s while using Tebow on wildcard packages in the redzone or some third downs like we did last year at times

Chucky the tree · 14-09-2011 3:37pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Well going by what I seen of him last year I think he makes it. Going by stats of which there aren't many but his DVOA on FO was worse than only 9 other QBs in the league. While he didn't play enough to be included in the main rankings it was still impressive. Orton's DVOA was 17th best of those with a lot of passes.

As I said, when I reach your zen like knowledge of the game I will finally know better and realise Tebow is a stud QB. Maybe I just need to touch an NFL ball and then all the knowledge will just instantly transfuse into me. :pac:

spiralism · 14-09-2011 3:47pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

As I said, when I reach your zen like knowledge of the game I will finally know better and realise Tebow is a stud QB. Maybe I just need to touch an NFL ball and then all the knowledge will just instantly transfuse into me. :pac:

Bill Belichick, Mike Shanahan, Jon Gruden, Tony Dungy, Mike McCarthy and many others have said that they believe Tebow can be great... i'd classify them as having a zen like knowledge of the game and knowing better than any one of us here given that they combine for 8 superbowl rings between them

tallaghtoutlaws · 14-09-2011 3:49pm

spiralism wrote: »

Bill Belichick, Mike Shanahan, Tony Dungy, Mike McCarthy and many others have said that they believe Tebow can be great... i'd classify them as having a zen like knowledge of the game and knowing better than any one of us here given that they combine for 7 superbowl rings between them

Yeah they believe he can be great with the right work. They didn't say he was a guy they would stick in straight away. As many experts have said though he is still behind and is still a project player as he still has kinks that need fixing.

spiralism · 14-09-2011 3:53pm

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Yeah they believe he can be great with the right work. They didn't say he was a guy they would stick in straight away. As many experts have said though he is still behind and is still a project player as he still has kinks that need fixing.

so why not do it now? he's a gamer, he's the type that needs to learn in a game situation and this team wont go anywhere this year, whats the risk?

Johnny_Fontane · 14-09-2011 3:58pm

spiralism wrote: »

so why not do it now? he's a gamer, he's the type that needs to learn in a game situation and this team wont go anywhere this year, whats the risk?

+1

its a no brainer for the broncos - and it will happen if they keep losing.

Chucky the tree · 14-09-2011 4:02pm

spiralism wrote: »

Bill Belichick, Mike Shanahan, Jon Gruden, Tony Dungy, Mike McCarthy and many others have said that they believe Tebow can be great... i'd classify them as having a zen like knowledge of the game and knowing better than any one of us here given that they combine for 8 superbowl rings between them

Honestly I take very little notice of what headcoaches say about other players. It would be a PR disaster for any heahcoach to be anything other then complimentary about Tebow.

Edit: As I said before, the HC wanting to keep his job is a pretty big reason. Not only that but if you start Tebow and basically tell your players this season is a right off after just 1 game it would be possibly the dumbest thing ever to do. Do you think guys like Champ bailey, Brian Dawkins, Brandon LLoyd etc etc want to be told the HC is basically tanking the season because they want to see what Tebow can do? Do you think the players would think Tebow was such a great leader then and be fully supportive of him?

D3PO · 14-09-2011 4:03pm

spiralism wrote: »

so why not do it now? ?

For exactly the same reason Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady and a whole plethora of NFL starting QB's spent time on the bench. Because they arent ready.

The NFL is a win now league you only start a rookie QB or even a second year QB if oyur really in the sh*ts and ahve no other option.

Carolina in the sh*ts , Bengals in the sh*ts thats the only reason Newton or Dalton started last week. On the job trianing isnt good for a HC's shelf life

tallaghtoutlaws · 14-09-2011 4:04pm

spiralism wrote: »

so why not do it now? he's a gamer, he's the type that needs to learn in a game situation and this team wont go anywhere this year, whats the risk?

Because you basically right off your whole season after one game. But no matter what either of us think about Orton or Tebow. Fox has Orton as his starter and after 1 game no coach is going to change his starter when its clear there are more pressing matters in other positions and plenty of games to turn it around

Look simple fact us fans don't pick the teams and never will. You Bronco fans are too quick to write off Orton and use him as a scapegoat just becuase Tebow sits on the bench. This is clearly about wanting Tebow in and nothing else. Because as you said you yourself if he fails so be it you will pick up a new QB next year. Your logic is flawed.

I'm the only broncos fan that regularly posts here by the looks, yet i'm not the only one who thinks that we're going nowhere the way we're going, its proof that there's a considerable argument regarding himself and tebow and its not just a broncos thing

I never said it was exclusive to Broncos fans. I also did mention Tebow lovers and fanboys and guys who are bought in by the fact Tebow sits on the bench. But of course you are going to find non Broncos fans who dont like Orton either I never said you wouldnt.

But hey whatever happens good to see you have written off your season after 1 game :rolleyes:

Chucky the tree · 14-09-2011 4:16pm

Also, why is the clamour for Tebow to start when Brady Quinn is ahead of him?

Peyton Manning · 14-09-2011 4:23pm

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

I never said it was exclusive to Broncos fans. I also did mention Tebow lovers and fanboys.

Hey leave me out of this! :mad:

frostie500 · 14-09-2011 4:24pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Also, why is the clamour for Tebow to start when Brady Quinn is ahead of him?

I was actually just about to post about Quinn Chucky, was reading through the rest of the posts! Quinn looked pretty impressive in preseason and deserves a shot before Tebow who struggled in preseason and who the front office have absolutely nothing invested in. John Fox doesnt have to prove anything with Tebow so I dont see why he would risk playing him anytime soon. Keepm Orton and then if needs by give Quinn a start before Tebow

tallaghtoutlaws · 14-09-2011 4:28pm

frostie500 wrote: »

I was actually just about to post about Quinn Chucky, was reading through the rest of the posts! Quinn looked pretty impressive in preseason and deserves a shot before Tebow who struggled in preseason and who the front office have absolutely nothing invested in. John Fox doesnt have to prove anything with Tebow so I dont see why he would risk playing him anytime soon. Keepm Orton and then if needs by give Quinn a start before Tebow

But you see thats the problem with Broncos fans and Tebow lovers they don't see Quinn as the backup which we all know he is backup to Orton.

Edit: I bet you if Tebow wasn't there and it was just Orton, Quinn and some other regular 3rd stringer this debate wouldn't be happening in the first place.

spiralism · 14-09-2011 4:31pm

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Because you basically right off your whole season after one game. But no matter what either of us think about Orton or Tebow. Fox has Orton as his starter and after 1 game no coach is going to change his starter when its clear there are more pressing matters in other positions and plenty of games to turn it around

Look simple fact us fans don't pick the teams and never will. You Bronco fans are too quick to write off Orton and use him as a scapegoat just becuase Tebow sits on the bench. This is clearly about wanting Tebow in and nothing else. Because as you said you yourself if he fails so be it you will pick up a new QB next year. Your logic is flawed.

I never said it was exclusive to Broncos fans. I also did mention Tebow lovers and fanboys and guys who are bought in by the fact Tebow sits on the bench. But of course you are going to find non Broncos fans who dont like Orton either I never said you wouldnt.

But hey whatever happens good to see you have written off your season after 1 game :rolleyes:

Anyone willing to disagree with me? probably not, even a blind man could see that we are awful and will struggle to win 4 games, i don't think there's a sinner here who would disagree

obviously i'd love to be wrong but that's the way it is

frostie500 · 14-09-2011 5:09pm

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

But you see thats the problem with Broncos fans and Tebow lovers they don't see Quinn as the backup which we all know he is backup to Orton.

Edit: I bet you if Tebow wasn't there and it was just Orton, Quinn and some other regular 3rd stringer this debate wouldn't be happening in the first place.

Dont get me wrong i think they'd be foolish to drop Orton, im just saying that Tebow has to beat out Quinn to even be second string

Chucky the tree · 14-09-2011 7:54pm

Lloyd seems firmly in the Orton camp.

"I think it's all B.S.," Denver Broncos wide receiver Brandon Lloyd said in a phone interview Tuesday. "I think everybody is just waiting for an opportunity to move (Orton) out and play anybody other than him."

"That's the circumstances that we're in. That's the climate that we're in, and we knew we were going to be in -- so be it. There's no being patient with Kyle. Kyle is ready to go. He didn't perform maybe as well as people expected him to. Whatever. He's our quarterback, and we're going to eventually win games," Lloyd said.

vinny chase · 15-09-2011 10:52am

The biggest point about Tebow is that Elway & Fox were preparing to anoint him as the face of the franchise in the summer when the said the starting job was his to lose, and they were shopping Orton.

That Orton is back as the starter on opening day isn't because there were no takers for him, it's because Tebow struggled so badly in training camp that they knew they couldn't go into the season with him under centre. This was also the opinion of numerous scouts & analysts from NFL.com and ESPN who were watching the Bronco's training camps.

I don't think Kyle Orton is any sort of star, but given the right pieces he's fairly capable. Tebow is still a big development project. If Orton continues to struggle, Fox should hand over the offense to Quinn.

spiralism · 15-09-2011 1:13pm

vinny chase wrote: »

The biggest point about Tebow is that Elway & Fox were preparing to anoint him as the face of the franchise in the summer when the said the starting job was his to lose, and they were shopping Orton.

That Orton is back as the starter on opening day isn't because there were no takers for him, it's because Tebow struggled so badly in training camp that they knew they couldn't go into the season with him under centre. This was also the opinion of numerous scouts & analysts from NFL.com and ESPN who were watching the Bronco's training camps.

I don't think Kyle Orton is any sort of star, but given the right pieces he's fairly capable. Tebow is still a big development project. If Orton continues to struggle, Fox should hand over the offense to Quinn.

I'd be all for handing it to Quinn if he's got it in him to do well, thing is i dunno is he really up to much

As i posted a couple of pages back, i think it's a numbers thing that has orton under centre more than anything

LuckyLloyd · 15-09-2011 2:20pm

Le King wrote: »

tl;dr: Broncomaniacs have lost faith in Orton. It's Tebow time.

Who cares what the fans think? Selection policies need to be a bit more nuanced than that.

LuckyLloyd · 15-09-2011 2:27pm

spiralism wrote: »

As i posted a couple of pages back, i think it's a numbers thing that has orton under centre more than anything

Your ability to ignore report after report from Broncos observers indicating that Tebow was performing really poorly throughout camp is, well, I don't know...

There was no indication at any point that Tebow was anywhere near Orton in terms of ability.

vinny chase · 15-09-2011 3:04pm

spiralism wrote: »

I'd be all for handing it to Quinn if he's got it in him to do well, thing is i dunno is he really up to much

As i posted a couple of pages back, i think it's a numbers thing that has orton under centre more than anything

I can't see that being the case.

Fox would be furious if he thought Tebow was his best option to win in his first season and would walk if this was the option presented to him.

Similarly, I think it's vital for John Elway than he be seen to turn around the Broncos. Of all the positions on the field, he's going to want the best guy under centre, and I don't think the money comes into it.

spiralism · 15-09-2011 6:17pm

vinny chase wrote: »

I can't see that being the case.

Fox would be furious if he thought Tebow was his best option to win in his first season and would walk if this was the option presented to him.

Similarly, I think it's vital for John Elway than he be seen to turn around the Broncos. Of all the positions on the field, he's going to want the best guy under centre, and I don't think the money comes into it.

It's a thought though, we're paying 3 coaches and have a lot of money tied up in busts and bad free agents over the last few years, i do wonder if we're in a bad way money wise given that we pursued almost nobody in FA with the amount of holes on the team

Regarding camp, as i've already said, Tebow is the type to do far better in a game situation than in camp drills. Orton is the opposite.

He's done at Denver regardless of how good he is anyways, this underlines it

tallaghtoutlaws · 15-09-2011 6:21pm

spiralism wrote: »

Regarding camp, as i've already said, Tebow is the type to do far better in a game situation than in camp drills. Orton is the opposite.

But the drills they do in camp are the basics. If he isn't that good at the basics then he has no business being in the NFL. No coach is going to trust him on the field in any capacity if he is sucking at the basics. And camp is where the players bond as a unit. Hence why players are sticking up for Orton and where Orton has done the hard work as has Quinn. You are clearly just making excuses now for Tebow.

Syferus · 15-09-2011 6:25pm

spiralism wrote: »

It's a thought though, we're paying 3 coaches and have a lot of money tied up in busts and bad free agents over the last few years, i do wonder if we're in a bad way money wise given that we pursued almost nobody in FA with the amount of holes on the team

Regarding camp, as i've already said, Tebow is the type to do far better in a game situation than in camp drills. Orton is the opposite.

He's done at Denver regardless of how good he is anyways, this underlines it

Denver need to jettison Orton or Tebow or else this will just continue to envelope the whole team. Brady Quinn is a good enough #2 to anyone and maybe a decent starter at this point too. It just feels like the Broncos front office want to have it both ways, but this isn't a situation that can be solved with diplomacy.

If I was the owner I'd have rode with McDaniels through the storm, at least he had an idea of what to do with Tebow and, honestly, he seems like the sort of guy who is going to be a success as a head coach.

mikemac · 15-09-2011 6:30pm

Trade deadline in just a few weeks, if the Broncos FO are making a move it needs to happen soon

Of course if you shop around a player it can become messy as we saw with Cutler

Broncos gave up a second, third and fourth for Tebow, what would they get now?
Not sure you'd get more then a fifth for him, it's a loss for sure

spiralism · 15-09-2011 6:34pm

i'd be very surprised if we cut loose on Tebow at this point or even shop him for that matter

tallaghtoutlaws · 15-09-2011 6:42pm

spiralism wrote: »

i'd be very surprised if we cut loose on Tebow at this point or even shop him for that matter

Cutting him wont be an option because it will cost them a fair bit either way. As for shopping him, Id say the reason he is still there is because they found no takers.

spiralism · 15-09-2011 6:53pm

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Cutting him wont be an option because it will cost them a fair bit either way. As for shopping him, Id say the reason he is still there is because they found no takers.

no proof of that... yet there's definite proof that that's the case with orton

tallaghtoutlaws · 15-09-2011 7:03pm

spiralism wrote: »

no proof of that... yet there's definite proof that that's the case with orton

Relax your cacks Where did I say there was proof? I said "I'd say" as in I was speculating just like you keep speculating about the future of the broncos and Tebow. As for Orton they went to trade him didnt and then liked what they saw in camp. Big difference between that situation and Tebow's now.

The simple facts here are that the Broncos had 29 days from the start of the 2011 season to trade Tebow before they had to pay him $6m odd in guaranteed money. Its obvious if any trade was to happen it had to happen before that cheque was paid. There was a lot of murmur the end of August about Tebow trades after Orton was named starter. But after paying Tebow his money their backs are now firmly against the wall as Tebow is a liability either way.

tallaghtoutlaws · 15-09-2011 7:07pm

Chris Burke on SI.com has this to say and in the past has knocked Orton. If you ask me he summed it up nicely.

It didn’t even take three full quarters for some Broncos fans to start chanting for Tim Tebow on Monday night. Unless they wanted Tebow to take over a spot on the offensive line, his presence probably wouldn’t have mattered much anyways.

Denver wound up on the short end of a 23-20 tally in its season-opener, a crushing defeat against AFC West rival Oakland, and from the sound of it — “Te-bow! Te-bow! Te-bow!” — the home crowd was ready to pin that loss on Kyle Orton.

No, Orton wasn’t at his best Monday, hitting just 24 of his 46 passes, throwing an interception and simply dropping the ball while he set to throw for a second turnover. But everything he did came with the Raiders’ defensive line in his face. Oakland recorded four sacks and forced Denver to commit numerous holding penalties.

Even on Denver’s final scoring drive, which pulled the Broncos within three, Orton took hit after hit but managed to get his team into the end zone.

Denver and Oakland combined for 25 penalties in a chippy, drawn-out, sloppy mess of a game. Aside from some discipline problems, it was exactly what the Raiders wanted. Their defensive line dominated Denver’s front, most of the time accomplishing that goal without bringing a blitz.

The pressure resulted in a distressed Orton and a nonexistent Denver running game — Knowshon Moreno had just eight carries for 22 yards and Orton’s 13-yard scramble was the Broncos’ longest rush of the game.

Oakland has now won eight in a row within the AFC West, dating back to a Week 15 victory at Denver in 2009. The Raiders followed that up with a 6-0 intra-division mark in 2010 and Monday’s win.

Unfortunately for the Broncos, this was supposed to be their party, a national-TV audience tuning in to see how new head coach John Fox was going to turn things around after a 4-12 season. Instead, Denver was physically manhandled by a better team.

And this quarterback issue? It’s not going away.

There were rumors once the lockout ended that Denver wanted to trade Orton, who’s in the final year of a two-year deal. The fact that the Broncos kept him and Fox committed to him as the team’s No. 1 QB meant little to a fan base that seems to adamantly believe that Tebow is their future.

That attitude will no doubt pin the goat label on Orton with Denver off to an 0-1 start.

It was pretty apparent for much of Monday, though, that the Broncos had their work cut out for them. A Jacoby Ford fumble deep in Oakland territory gift-wrapped Denver’s only three points of the first half, as the Raiders stormed out to a commanding 16-3 halftime lead.

They deserved every bit of that lead, too, and certainly earned the win. While the questions swirl in Denver, we have to consider the possibility that Oakland is a legitimate threat in the AFC West.

Quarterback Jason Campbell, a maligned figure in his own right, played a controlled game, throwing for 105 yards and accounting for a pair of touchdowns. Darren McFadden, meanwhile, knocked out 150 yards on the ground and Sebastian Janikowski nailed three field goals, including an NFL record-tying 63-yarder.

Then there’s the defense. If there is one spot where you can clearly see how much the Raiders have improved from the past couple of years, it’s up front on D. Oakland is aggressive and tough, both traits that were put on display over and over again Monday.

Orton took the brunt of that Oakland attack, and in turn, bore the weight of the Broncos fans’ angst.

But it’s hard to blame Orton for Denver’s loss when his offensive line never even gave him a chance.

frostie500 · 15-09-2011 7:09pm

spiralism wrote: »

He's done at Denver regardless of how good he is anyways, this underlines it

I was expecting an article with either Fox, Elway or lets face it anyone remotely associated with the Broncos when I clicked on your link. I dont see how a disgruntled fan taking out a billboard means that your starting quarterback is going to be traded.

tallaghtoutlaws · 15-09-2011 7:13pm

frostie500 wrote: »

I was expecting an article with either Fox, Elway or lets face it anyone remotely associated with the Broncos when I clicked on your link. I dont see how a disgruntled fan taking out a billboard means that your starting quarterback is going to be traded.

Im telling you Broncos fans have become deluded thinking they can tell the organisation what to do and who to pick. :rolleyes:

Chucky the tree · 15-09-2011 7:13pm

Syferus wrote: »

Denver need to jettison Orton or Tebow or else this will just continue to envelope the whole team. Brady Quinn is a good enough #2 to anyone and maybe a decent starter at this point too. It just feels like the Broncos front office want to have it both ways, but this isn't a situation that can be solved with diplomacy.

If I was the owner I'd have rode with McDaniels through the storm, at least he had an idea of what to do with Tebow and, honestly, he seems like the sort of guy who is going to be a success as a head coach.

Most players would have left if they kept McDaniels on. You can't keep on a terrible head coach just on the unlikely chances he manages to develop an extremely raw QB who probably wouldn't make it anyway.

edit: Bronco fans are starting to embarass themselves with that Bill board.

spiralism · 15-09-2011 7:27pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Most players would have left if they kept McDaniels on. You can't keep on a terrible head coach just on the unlikely chances he manages to develop an extremely raw QB who probably wouldn't make it anyway.

even the thought of mcdaniels still being there makes me shudder, he's set this team back by half a decade at least.

we're clamouring for tebow not because of some agenda or trying to tell the FO what to do but because we care and cannot tolerate this sort of long term ineptitude that we've been exposed to in the last decade. Love or hate us, we're a storied team and were definitely up there with the cowboys, steelers, packers and co. as a long term member of the elite teams up to recent years(last 10ish), with fans as passionate as any of them (8 home sellouts in our worst season in decades says it all) but we've gone off the road in the last decade and the fans are getting sick of it and are right to not just put up with it. The broncos fans have seen the glory days and know that we're not on the right road as a result.

Chucky the tree · 15-09-2011 7:29pm

spiralism wrote: »

even the thought of mcdaniels still being there makes me shudder, he's set this team back by half a decade at least.

we're clamouring for tebow not because of some agenda or trying to tell the FO what to do but because we care and cannot tolerate this sort of long term ineptitude that we've been exposed to in the last decade. Love or hate us, we're a storied team and were definitely up there with the cowboys, steelers, packers and co. as a long term member of the elite teams up to recent years, with fans as passionate as any of them (8 home sellouts in our worst season in decades says it all) but we've gone off the road in the last decade and the fans are getting sick of it and are right to not just put up with it. The broncos fans have seen the glory days and know that we're not on the right road as a result.

But Tim Tebow will set you guys on that right road? :pac: I think you guys are on the right road, but it's going to take you a lot long then one off-season to get there and one simple QB change.

spiralism · 15-09-2011 7:31pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

But Tim Tebow will set you guys on that right road? :pac: I think you guys are on the right road, but it's going to take you a lot long then one off-season to get there and one simple QB change.

no but it would help, one way or another.

Chucky the tree · 15-09-2011 7:40pm

How would it help? By alienanting the majority of your players?

Quality report/rant about it here.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/15579357/tebows-adoring-fans-leave-destruction-in-their-wake

spiralism · 15-09-2011 8:00pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

How would it help? By alienanting the majority of your players?

Quality report/rant about it here.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/15579357/tebows-adoring-fans-leave-destruction-in-their-wake

did it alienate them last year? i have the feeling the tunes of a few players will change in 2 months time when we're 1-9 or something

Syferus · 15-09-2011 8:05pm

Honestly, I feel the Broncos are in far more of a hole now than they were at the end of the McDaniels term. There was plenty of glimmers of hope in those two years, a top-tier passing attack and a defense that was the #7 ranked defence in 2009. Orton for Cutler and Marshall for Lloyd didn't really hurt the team in all honesty, and if anything the new pair's connection was a better combination for Denver. Sure, he reached for Tebow but even then there's a huge upside if he becomes a franchise QB, something McDaniels of all people would have known how to develop. People will probably point out trading Hillis but, honestly, this was a player seen more as a fullback/blocking tight end than a featured back at that point.

I see the pontiel for things to get far more sour in the Elway-Fox era if they don't end the the QB situation once and for all by trading one of them. sometimes reality needs to intercede in footballing decisions.

tallaghtoutlaws · 15-09-2011 8:17pm

spiralism wrote: »

did it alienate them last year? i have the feeling the tunes of a few players will change in 2 months time when we're 1-9 or something

So you are saying the players will turn on Orton. Ah here get a fooking grip would you.

Chucky the tree · 15-09-2011 8:18pm

spiralism wrote: »

did it alienate them last year? i have the feeling the tunes of a few players will change in 2 months time when we're 1-9 or something

Last year they probably didn't realise how bad he was. It probably will, but once the see Tebow play I'm sure we'll see billboard for Brady Quinn appear. :pac:

Chucky the tree · 15-09-2011 8:56pm

Syferus wrote: »

Honestly, I feel the Broncos are in far more of a hole now than they were at the end of the McDaniels term. There was plenty of glimmers of hope in those two years, a top-tier passing attack and a defense that was the #7 ranked defence in 2009. Orton for Cutler and Marshall for Lloyd didn't really hurt the team in all honesty, and if anything the new pair's connection was a better combination for Denver. Sure, he reached for Tebow but even then there's a huge upside if he becomes a franchise QB, something McDaniels of all people would have known how to develop. People will probably point out trading Hillis but, honestly, this was a player seen more as a fullback/blocking tight end than a featured back at that point.

I see the pontiel for things to get far more sour in the Elway-Fox era if they don't end the the QB situation once and for all by trading one of them. sometimes reality needs to intercede in footballing decisions.

They went from #7 best defense to in the league to #32 under Josh McDaniels. I'm not sure how they are far bigger of a hole now then went Josh was fired after going 3-9 and managing to complete butcher his teams defense.

Not only will people point out the Hillis trade, they will also point out every other trade and draft made under McDaniels.

2009 draft:
1(#16). Knowshon Monroe - Looked pretty poor so far in his career.
1(#18). Robery Ayers - not 100% sure how he has done but looking at his stats he seems terrible. Started 11 games and has 1.5 sacks. Ouch.
2(#37). Alphonso Smith - Traded to the Lions for a Dan Gronkowski(65 yards for Denver, was cut the start of this month)
2(#48) Darcel McBeth - Cut at the start of this month
2(#64) Richard Quinn(Te) - 9 career yards. :pac: Was cut due to injury.
4. David Bruton(S) - bit part player it seems. Started 3 games
4. Seth Olsen(G) - Cut after his 1st year,
5. Kenny McKinley(Wr) - Placed on IR and then cut. Ended him killing himself which is very sad.
6. Tom Brandstater - Released after a year.
7. Blake Schuelter - cut after 3 months signing his contract.

5 tops in the top two rounds and to miss on all of them is pretty impressive. Pretty much missing on every single pick is even more impressive. Kudos Josh.

2010 Draft:

1.(#18) Demaryius Thomas - poor 1st season, did his achilles tendon which could be a disaster for his career. They passed on Dez Byrant for him.
1. Tim Tebow(#25). Huge reach at the time, and has lived up to it by being poor and being dropped to #3 QB.
2. Zane Beadles - Heards he's performed quite well at time. Not 100% sure.
3. JD Walton - Not sure
3. Eric Decker - Seems a solid return man.
5. Perish Cox - All round nice guy who was cut this month.
6. Eric Olsen - Cut this month
7. Syd’quan Thompson - Ruptured his achilles out for the year, tough break for him.
7. jammie kirlew - cut

Also, I've no idea how you can say Cutler for Orton didn't hurt the team. :eek: It was the big factor that has lead to being as terrible as they are now.

spiralism · 16-09-2011 2:05am

Chucky the tree wrote: »

They went from #7 best defense to in the league to #32 under Josh McDaniels. I'm not sure how they are far bigger of a hole now then went Josh was fired after going 3-9 and managing to complete butcher his teams defense.

Not only will people point out the Hillis trade, they will also point out every other trade and draft made under McDaniels.

2009 draft:
1(#16). Knowshon Moreno - I'd be praising him heavily by calling him average. bust.
1(#18). Robert Ayers - 100% certified bust. Started 11 games and has 1.5 sacks. Ouch.
2(#37). Alphonso Smith - Looked crap at first, so we traded him for skittles and he's looked ok in detroit. In return we got Dan Gronkowski who was craptacular(65 yards for Denver, was cut the start of this month)
2(#48) Darcel McBeth - Looked good in very limited play time. Was far too injury prone which led to him being cut at the start of this month
2(#64) Richard Quinn(Te) - We actually reached for this guy, a fcuking blocking TE. 9 career yards. :pac: Was cut due to injury.
4. David Bruton(S) - Started 3 games, plays on ST. best pick of that draft without even being that good, says it all
4. Seth Olsen(G) - Cut after his 1st year,
5. Kenny McKinley(Wr) - Placed on IR and then cut. Ended him killing himself which is very sad.
6. Tom Brandstater - Released after a year.
7. Blake Schuelter - cut after 3 months signing his contract.

5 tops in the top two rounds and to miss on all of them is pretty impressive. Pretty much missing on every single pick is even more impressive. Kudos Josh.

2010 Draft:

1.(#18) Demaryius Thomas - poor 1st season, did his achilles tendon which could be a disaster for his career. They passed on Dez Byrant for him.
1. Tim Tebow(#25). Huge reach at the time, and has lived up to it by being poor and being dropped to #3 QB.
2. Zane Beadles - He has his moments but isnt consistently very good, though he's only in his second year
3. JD Walton - Similar story here, though there is scope for improvement with both him and beadles
3. Eric Decker - Solid return man. Good hands as well, got a good bit of use towards the end of last year and will probably see some good playing time this year too, pretty decent pick so far tbh
5. Perish Cox - Cut this month as he's jail bound.
6. Eric Olsen - Cut this month
7. Syd’quan Thompson - Ruptured his achilles out for the year, tough break for him, was actually decent when he played last year
7. jammie kirlew - cut
UDFA-Cassius Vaughn- 3rd on depth chart at CB, looks good enough and scored on a return against the chargers in week 17 last year.

Also, I've no idea how you can say Cutler for Orton didn't hurt the team. :eek: It was the big factor that has lead to being as terrible as they are now.

FTFY

Perrish cox- All around nice guy :pac:

Regarding Cutler, i think hes an arsehole but i really wish we didnt trade him when one sees this mess and QB controvery left in the wake of him fúcking off. Hell, i never thought i'd come out with this but we never should have got rid of jake plummer, he wasn't any good of a passer but always managed to win games...

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