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Munster Team Talk Thread - Snymans are(n't) Forever

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    #1622
    Jupiter Mulligan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 525 ✭✭✭Jupiter Mulligan


    Eod100 wrote: »
    Does that not mean he's a good finisher? Why not so somebody else? If he can be in that position and score, then it counts same as any other try

    It means whatever you want it to mean. Much like Robbie Keane's many tap-ins in the green jersey.

    So if you regard touching the ball down unopposed as "good finishing" then bingo!

    More significantly, it suggests that he runs good supporting lines. And that his fellow Racing backs liked him, because otherwise they'd probably have scored themselves! That said, I can't remember Imhoff passing to him - or to anyone else!


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    #1623
    mark_way
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭mark_way


    Zebo's absolute quality. He misses a few tackles here and there. So what? He makes the ones that matter because he's a big-game animal. You need these big game players who'll step up to the mark when the chips are down in ur team. Making the try-saving hit in the corner against Toulon in the semi in 2014 and then going up the other end and getting in himself. That's what he's about. It's a pity he wasn't starting against the Pumas in 2015. He could have used his pace to get across and cover and maybe some of the tries wouldn't have been conceded.


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    #1624
    Lucas44
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Lucas44


    Really don’t understand how some so called ‘fans’ here are trying to degrade or rip into one of our all time greats, you’d be hard bet to pick an all time Munster 15 and leave him out.. real Munster fans only have love and respect for zeebs and the excitement he brought to Thomond for years.


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    #1625
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,847 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Real Munster fans also know how to spell Thomond ;)

    Seriously though, you'll find that most in this thread denigrating Zebo aren't actually Munster fans.


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    #1626
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,656 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Jupiter Mulligan wrote: »
    It means whatever you want it to mean. Much like Robbie Keane's many tap-ins in the green jersey.

    So if you regard touching the ball down unopposed as "good finishing" then bingo!

    More significantly, it suggests that he runs good supporting lines. And that his fellow Racing backs liked him, because otherwise they'd probably have scored themselves! That said, I can't remember Imhoff passing to him - or to anyone else!

    Well, yeah that's kinda my point, I don't see how it's something to criticise him over/take away from the tries he has scored. Same could presumably be said of a lot of wingers so not sure why Zebo gets particular focus than that. He's not a perfect player by any means and never was and nobody ever argues that he is but some of the criticism he gets since leaving to play in France isn't very accurate imo.


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    #1627
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Zebo is a funny one. While at Munster and Ireland I wouldnt have labelled him as particularly lazy, although comments like ROGs about his approach to training did give pause. He developed parts of his game for Ireland too that I was always impressed by. His ability to step in at first receiver stands out as something he worked hard to bring to the table, and to great effect at times. And he was always a natural finisher.

    Then when he announced he was leaving he made that odd statement about not wanting to play the way Joe wanted him to. Whatever about feeling that way, announcing it publicly is bizarre. And them from what I've seen of him at Racing, which to be fair has been limited, lazy is exactly the word I'd use to describe him. He seems to be happy to show up for the big try scoring moments and go missing for large parts. Some of his defensive work that I've seen has been nothing short of disgraceful. Its like he wants to play the parts of the game he likes, and not the parts he doesn't. And if that works for him and for Racing then that's fine, but that's certainly not anything I'd want for a team I support.

    There were a number of comments from the Munster set up about how he isn't one for working hard in training. His weight has definitely been an obvious factor in how people judge him. But he also seems to have turned into a bit of a me feiner on the pitch. Add to that those weird comments that (even if he stayed in Ireland) were always going to rule him out of Ireland selection combined with his pot shots on twitter about his non-selection and hes really come across as a bit of a dick. He made his decision to leave, he cant now moan about the impacts of that the way he is. I've grown to really dislike the guy since hes left. And I'm more than happy he isn't involved in the Irish set-up anymore. But I wouldnt have said that while was at Munster.


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    #1628
    mark_way
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭mark_way


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Zebo is a funny one. While at Munster and Ireland I wouldnt have labelled him as particularly lazy, although comments like ROGs about his approach to training did give pause. He developed parts of his game for Ireland too that I was always impressed by. His ability to step in at first receiver stands out as something he worked hard to bring to the table, and to great effect at times. And he was always a natural finisher.

    Then when he announced he was leaving he made that odd statement about not wanting to play the way Joe wanted him to. Whatever about feeling that way, announcing it publicly is bizarre. And them from what I've seen of him at Racing, which to be fair has been limited, lazy is exactly the word I'd use to describe him. He seems to be happy to show up for the big try scoring moments and go missing for large parts. Some of his defensive work that I've seen has been nothing short of disgraceful. Its like he wants to play the parts of the game he likes, and not the parts he doesn't. And if that works for him and for Racing then that's fine, but that's certainly not anything I'd want for a team I support.

    There were a number of comments from the Munster set up about how he isn't one for working hard in training. His weight has definitely been an obvious factor in how people judge him. But he also seems to have turned into a bit of a me feiner on the pitch. Add to that those weird comments that (even if he stayed in Ireland) were always going to rule him out of Ireland selection combined with his pot shots on twitter about his non-selection and hes really come across as a bit of a dick. He made his decision to leave, he cant now moan about the impacts of that the way he is. I've grown to really dislike the guy since hes left. And I'm more than happy he isn't involved in the Irish set-up anymore. But I wouldnt have said that while was at Munster.

    Mr Big Man, slagging him off on the internet. The term 'keyboard warrior' springs to mind.

    “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”


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    #1629
    Dog Botherer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭Dog Botherer


    Ctrl+V


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    #1630
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dog Botherer wrote: »
    Ctrl+V

    Oh Yeah, look at Billy bad ass here posting from behind his monitor. Actin all 'ard but try say something in person and your life would be flipped upside down pal.

    "Now, this is a story all about how
    My life got flipped-turned upside down
    And I'd like to take a minute
    Just sit right there
    I'll tell you how I became the prince of a town called Bel Air
    In west Philadelphia born and raised
    On the playground was where I spent most of my days
    Chillin' out maxin' relaxin' all cool
    And all shootin some b-ball outside of the school
    When a couple of guys who were up to no good
    Started making trouble in my neighborhood
    I got in one little fight and my mom got scared
    She said 'You're movin' with your auntie and uncle in Bel Air'"


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    #1631
    cameramonkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,220 ✭✭✭cameramonkey


    mark_way wrote: »
    Zebo's absolute quality. He misses a few tackles here and there. So what? He makes the ones that matter because he's a big-game animal. You need these big game players who'll step up to the mark when the chips are down in ur team. Making the try-saving hit in the corner against Toulon in the semi in 2014 and then going up the other end and getting in himself. That's what he's about. It's a pity he wasn't starting against the Pumas in 2015. He could have used his pace to get across and cover and maybe some of the tries wouldn't have been conceded.


    Unfortunately his pace has disappeared as quickly as his waistline has expanded. Munster would never have allowed that to happen.


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    #1632
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,189 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    mark_way wrote: »
    Zebo's absolute quality. He misses a few tackles here and there. So what? He makes the ones that matter because he's a big-game animal. You need these big game players who'll step up to the mark when the chips are down in ur team.

    That's not what happened in his first season in France.

    Champions cup games v Toulouse in LDA he was awful. He didn't want to know. At one stage he was avoiding having to tackle. Big game animal nothing. The T14 QF too he was awful.

    That was repeated a few other times this season. At Munster he was a bit like that at times but nowhere near the extent I saw this last 12 month's at R92

    Zebo is one of those guys who won't fulfil his potential. If He Had applied himself fully both physically and mentally he should have been able to take the 15 shirt from RK.

    He, for me, will always be a guy who played for himself and not his team especially when it came to Ireland


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    #1633
    yerrahbah
    Registered Users Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭yerrahbah


    Mike Sherry retires, was such a talent, plagued by injuries

    https://twitter.com/Mikesherry24/status/1145586902118150145


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    #1634
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    There's no denying Zebo's try scoring record. Even if many of them were just run-in finishes, being in the right place to get that final pass is a talent in itself.

    But he was never able to make that step up to real test class. For all the talk of his X factor and blinding pace, when did we ever see either of these in a big game? I think he found his level on the fringe of the first XV.

    Like all these things, the truth is somewhere in the middle. Not as bad as some make out, not as good as many would lead us to believe.


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    #1635
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,778 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Zebo is the new Heaslip or ROG some love him while others hate him and use him to bait others.


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    #1636
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,296 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    phog wrote: »
    Zebo is the new Heaslip or ROG some love him while others hate him and use him to bait others.

    Whilst your right about the general point, he was never at the level the other two were.


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    #1637
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,248 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Zebo's try-scoring record and defensive work (or lack of) always seem to get a mention in any argument about him, but I've always thought his passing was a very under-rated part of his game.


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    #1638
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Former Former wrote: »
    There's no denying Zebo's try scoring record. Even if many of them were just run-in finishes, being in the right place to get that final pass is a talent in itself.

    But he was never able to make that step up to real test class. For all the talk of his X factor and blinding pace, when did we ever see either of these in a big game? I think he found his level on the fringe of the first XV.

    Like all these things, the truth is somewhere in the middle. Not as bad as some make out, not as good as many would lead us to believe.

    I thought he had a very complete performance in Chicago. If he delivered like that every week he would in fact be worthy of comparison to the likes of Heaslip and ROG.

    If Zebo had the work ethic of someone like Fegus McFadden he'd have been central to Ireland the last 5+ years.

    I hope his career doesn't taper out, too much talent to waste like that.


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    #1639
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 16,775 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    aloooof wrote: »
    Zebo's try-scoring record and defensive work (or lack of) always seem to get a mention in any argument about him, but I've always thought his passing was a very under-rated part of his game.

    He's a very good kicker as well. Not just touch finders, but chips and grubbers too. Which is why it's maddening that he's never been able to out it all together.


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    #1640
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,021 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    phog wrote: »
    Zebo is the new Heaslip or ROG some love him while others hate him and use him to bait others.

    He is in his ample backside. He's nowhere near the quality of Heaslip or ROG.


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    #1641
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,248 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Clegg wrote: »
    He's a very good kicker as well. Not just touch finders, but chips and grubbers too. Which is why it's maddening that he's never been able to out it all together.

    Agreed; early in his career he had a tendency to kick into touch on the full a bit too often, but he definitely improved in that regard.


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    #1642
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I thought he had a very complete performance in Chicago. If he delivered like that every week he would in fact be worthy of comparison to the likes of Heaslip and ROG.

    If Zebo had the work ethic of someone like Fegus McFadden he'd have been central to Ireland the last 5+ years.

    I hope his career doesn't taper out, too much talent to waste like that.

    He absolutely was one of our best players in Chicago, but in a very nuts and bolts type of way. Making tackles, chasing kicks, etc. He was brilliant that day.

    He didn't skin any defenders and didn't scorch in from 50 metres because he's not really that type of player. The sooner he realises that, the better for himself.

    Honestly, I think Racing was the worst place he could have gone. I don't think it will do him any favours.


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    #1643
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,778 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    He is in his ample backside. He's nowhere near the quality of Heaslip or ROG.

    Have you a difficulty in reading?


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    #1644
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Former Former wrote: »
    He absolutely was one of our best players in Chicago, but in a very nuts and bolts type of way. Making tackles, chasing kicks, etc. He was brilliant that day.

    He didn't skin any defenders and didn't scorch in from 50 metres because he's not really that type of player. The sooner he realises that, the better for himself.

    Honestly, I think Racing was the worst place he could have gone. I don't think it will do him any favours.

    His kick through that led to Henshaw's try was a great piece of skill, weighted it perfectly. The odd fullback has that in their arsenal but few wingers. It was the perfect decision at the time too.

    But yeah it was his overall work rate that stood out, he put the shoulder straight through the wheel that day.


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    #1645
    Kirk Van Houten
    Registered Users Posts: 780 ✭✭✭Kirk Van Houten


    Zebo is the complete opposite of everything Schmidt wants in a full back. Kearney is far from the world's best tackler but he's solid under a high ball and when he returns a kick he generally looks for a support pod ahead of him to run directly at. He very rarely passes.
    Zebo is a counter attacking full back. He looks for space not jerseys to run at. His first instinct is to take chances with a counter or a grubber not the safety first approach and reset to allow structured play by Schmidt.
    Zebo is a strike runner and alternative pivot in the back line. Kearney is the safety net. Both approaches work but not for the same coach. It would be like asking Devin Toner to play the Aly Muldowney role of alternative playmaker in the backline and then giving him stick for not being able to do it.


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    #1646
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,248 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Kirk Van Houten wrote: »
    Zebo is a strike runner and alternative pivot in the back line. Kearney is the safety net. Both approaches work but not for the same coach.

    Schmidt did try Jared Payne there for a game or 2, which would have been a nice balance between both styles.


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    #1647
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    phog wrote: »
    Have you a difficulty in reading?

    Nah you're thinking of Diageo...


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    #1648
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    mark_way wrote: »
    Mr Big Man, slagging him off on the internet. The term 'keyboard warrior' springs to mind.

    Said without a hint of irony. If you disagree then feel free to discuss. That is the point of a discussion forum after all. Are there any points I made that weren't true or particularly unfair? If so, what were they?


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    #1649
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Former Former wrote: »
    He absolutely was one of our best players in Chicago, but in a very nuts and bolts type of way. Making tackles, chasing kicks, etc. He was brilliant that day.

    He didn't skin any defenders and didn't scorch in from 50 metres because he's not really that type of player. The sooner he realises that, the better for himself.

    Honestly, I think Racing was the worst place he could have gone. I don't think it will do him any favours.

    His kick through that led to Henshaw's try was a great piece of skill, weighted it perfectly. The odd fullback has that in their arsenal but few wingers. It was the perfect decision at the time too.

    But yeah it was his overall work rate that stood out, he put the shoulder straight through the wheel that day.

    Yeah, as I said earlier his workrate wasn't something I questioned until his move to Racing. That despite the fact that it was something that was specifically called out by ROG in regards his application at training. FF is probably right. The move to Racing probably hasn't helped him there.


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    #1650
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,248 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Yeah, as I said earlier his workrate wasn't something I questioned until his move to Racing. That despite the fact that it was something that was specifically called out by ROG in regards his application at training. FF is probably right. The move to Racing probably hasn't helped him there.

    More recently, ROG has slightly softened his stance on that to be fair. It was from an interview last year (I think) where he said (and I'm paraphrasing here) that Zebo's hi-jinks and attitude in training used to wind him up and he saw that as Zebo not taking it seriously, but that he now saw it more as Zebo's way of getting through the training.


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    #1651
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    That's disappointing news for Sherry but unfortunately not a big surprise. Fair play to him for getting back to rugby at all after making just one appearance due to injury for 18 months.

    I haven't seen news on Duncan Williams' future, I assume he's hanging up the boots?


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