Cannabis Legalisation Ireland

Thelonious Monk · 01-10-2020 11:24am

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

And look where that got us with the booze!

And yet people would be overwhelmingly in favour of keeping alcohol legal, even with all the trouble it brings. People like to get drunk/high, that's never going to change.

Aongus Von Bismarck · 01-10-2020 11:25am

I’d be extremely hesitant about legalising weed. I’ve seen the effects this supposedly harmless drug has on people. My brother started smoking cannabis as a teenager, and he’s now like a character from that Hardy Bucks show. Hanging around a rural town with no ambitions to improve himself, or to face the reality that he’s psychologically addicted to the dissociative effects of cannabis.

He has also mentioned to me that the modern strains of weed are extremely strong, and this is the product being consumed by the majority of users. It’s a drug that is having a devastating impact on the mental health of young men.

I’d also challenge the idea that stoners are relaxed and chilled people. They become extremely angry when their supply of their drugs is affected. My brother and his friends found a large bag of cannabis at a festival a number of years back. Worth hundreds of euros. I was home on holiday at the time, and decided to burn that bag of cannabis as a way of teaching him a lesson, and to make sure he wasn’t tempted to start selling it.

The anger and bile directed at me was astonishing. It’s a nasty, insidious, and dirty drug.

stefanovich · 01-10-2020 11:27am

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

I’d be extremely hesitant about legalising weed. I’ve seen the effects this supposedly harmless drug has on people. My brother started smoking cannabis as a teenager, and he’s now like a character from that Hardy Bucks show. Hanging around a rural town with no ambitions to improve himself, or to face the reality that he’s psychologically addicted to the dissociative effects of cannabis.

He has also mentioned to me that the modern strains of weed are extremely strong, and this is the product being consumed by the majority of users. It’s a drug that is having a devastating impact on the mental health of young men.

I’d also challenge the idea that stoners are relaxed and chilled people. They become extremely angry when their supply of their drugs is affected. My brother and his friends found a large bag of cannabis at a festival a number of years back. Worth hundreds of euros. I was home on holiday at the time, and decided to burn that bag of cannabis as a way of teaching him a lesson, and to make sure he wasn’t tempted to start selling it.

The anger and bile directed at me was astonishing. It’s a nasty, insidious, and dirty drug.

If he poured an expensive case of whisky down the drain to teach you a lesson would you be upset?

irishblessing · 01-10-2020 11:31am

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

My brother started smoking cannabis as a teenager,

So his growing, adolescent brain was affected as some research has shown to be the case; the issue of minor's (children) partaking in drugs and alcohol is separate to what we are discussing here - the legalisation of cannabis in Ireland for ADULTS.

circadian · 01-10-2020 11:32am

stefanovich wrote: »

If he poured an expensive case of whisky down the drain to teach you a lesson would you be upset?

No because AVB is a regular wind up merchant and that story is most likely fabricated. Although, no mention of how rich he is which is new.

BagheeraBlue · 01-10-2020 11:35am

do it in private by all means but it ****ing stinks so keep it out of public places

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 01-10-2020 11:45am

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I didn't see you make that point in your previous posts?

Big shocker, eh... I make different points in different posts.

Creates a bit a problem for you though doesn't it?

How do you explain the lack of alcoholics in countries with very little culture of alcohol consumption?

Makes it very difficult to absolve yourself of blame for problem drug users in society, just because you partake in moderation...

But of course, just like alcohol, most people will bury their heads in the sand and ignore the obvious. Because it suits their agenda to do so. The selfish generation.

I think I agree with George Carlin... we are witnessing the end stages of human civilization. The closing act of our species. And although, like George, I enjoy highlighting the mistakes we are making... I am somewhat indifferent to it all in a way.

Not indifferent enough to join the herd as they march defiantly and stridently off the cliff edge, confident that they'll have a soft landing... but indifferent enough to sit back a watch it unfold.

Good old George was a pot smoker too... go figure! :pac:

01-10-2020 11:49am

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Yes, they do... lower levels of alcohol consumption directly results in lower levels of alcoholism.

And for many reasons including the article I just linked you to - I simply do not take your word for it. Especially as your word for it just happens to support your own narrative. I would prefer to see the figures on it and how those figures were compiled. Is there actually less alcohol and problems with alcohol in those countries - or do we just _see_ less of it when we glance superficially over.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

So making the argument that banning a drug doesn't work, is a non argument if you don't alter the culture.

And doing the opposite appears to be a non-argument too if you do not alter the culture. The culture around drugs both legal and illegal is worth improving. You will get no argument from me on that.

But it does not constitute an argument against legalising something - or making something illegal which was not already.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Legalizing something like cannabis, along with promoting all of it's BS unproven health benefits etc... is basically repeating the same mistakes we made with alcohol and tobacco... hundreds of years after we should have learned our lessons from those mistakes.

And we should absolutely learn those lessons. For example not one argument you have seen from me so far has relied on _any_ unproven magical health benefits.

Your words here are not against legalisation therefore. They are against legalising it the wrong way through lies and misinformation. And I wholly agree with you on that. We should not make the same mistakes again and we should proceed with making it legal in an open and honest fashion with no nonsense invented to make it look better than it is.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

What does being cognizant of the problems actually do unless you have solution to remedy them?

As I said the problems are already there. You painting it earlier like "creating a drug culture" and therefore "creating problem users". The problem really is that we already have both. And we should not pretend otherwise.

What we need is the tools to address those problems and the the tools to modify the culture. And I see no way to get those tools by fighting the losing battle we have been fighting for so long now to keep things illegal.

You make it sound like only one side need to come up with solutions and remedies in other words if they want to change the status quo. I do not see it that way. I see it that _we all_ need to find remedies and solutions for the things that exist now and changing the status quo is one option in that fight.

You half mention the similar issues "in other regions" but much like your comments at the start of this post - I am not seeing any hard data from you on this. And I do not take your word for any of it.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Bad laws or ineffective laws, are not an excuse for having no laws...

And bad or ineffective legislation, regulation and enforcement are also no excuse for not attempting better ones. Anti Drug people love to point out jurisdictions where something was tried and failed while ignoring jurisdictions where things were mostly ok. We see this with drugs. We see it with sex work. We see it in many topics. A quick hand wave of "Oh you want to make this legal well look what happened when X and Y tried that!" as if that is case closed.

For example you mention the US. Some areas of the US have made this drug legal. But they have done it in some truly awful and damaging ways. Some of the choices they have made have already caused damage and I see more damage coming too. So of course anti drug people revel in dancing on that grave stone. Why wouldn't they?

But what they don't want you to notice is that many of the horrible effects we observe are nothing to do with the drug itself but some awful decisions made about them. In one area for example shops are legal for it - but it is almost impossible to get a license. In another area the tax laws on it are so painful that legitimate growers find significantly more profit selling their legitimate product to black markets outside their own state than sell it legitimately within their own state.

And the spin anti drug people have put on these effects has been pretty crass.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Anyway, I've had my fill of these type of discussions... they always seem to go the same way. I imagine it's must like watching people make all the wrong moves regarding alcohol way back in the distant past.

Speaking of alcohol and "culture" and "problem users" with you is interesting for me because I have been thinking a lot about the drug culture and problem users with alcohol recently. Due to Covid.

You see one difference between the "culture" of alcohol and cannabis is that the former is a lot more social than the latter. We have pubs and barmen and friends around us as we drink. Whereas smoking is often a solitary or near solitary private affair in Ireland now. Compared to say smoking cafes in Amsterdam.

So one part of the "culture" is if our drinking gets out of hands we have barmen and friends around us to spot this and intervene. Question if our drinking is getting out of hand. Taking our car keys if we attempt to drive. And so on.

So when you say "culture" you almost say it like it is defacto a bad thing. But many aspects of a drug culture can be positive.

To that end I have been trying to keep an eye out for studies and papers on the usual scholar sites looking at the effect of lockdown, isolation and quarantine on problem users of alcohol. Either existing problem users or the creation of new ones. So far there have not been many but the figures are _not good_ as prelimiarny small studies are indeed showing increasing relapse rates in existing problem users and increase in consumptions from previous non problem users.

"Drug Culture" can be a positive thing as well as a negative. Our agenda should be to build tools and attributes into the system to nurture the former and hamper the latter.

magic_murph · 01-10-2020 11:57am

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Oh, look at me... I'm so cool and trendy and progressive, because I'm pro cannabis legalization!

(So cool - but yet obviously needing mind altering drugs as a crutch to get through life!) :pac:

Anyone who thinks they are forward thinking or more open minded, because they are pro cannabis legalization... really are about as deluded as it's possible to be. And just another mindless sheep following the crowd.

Also, anyone who thinks cannabis is completely harmless and has no negative health effects or negative effects on society, is also quite clueless and probably hasn't been smoking the stuff for long enough.

(I smoked for years through school and most of college btw - so I know very well what I'm talking about - cannabis has plenty of negative effects, just like any other mind altering addictive substance)

Governments have much more important things to be legislating for, rather than focusing their time on something as irrelevant as whatever drug of choice happens to be in vogue at the time for the "oh so trendy and woke" spaced out hipster generation, who think they are some kind of new revolutionary thinking breed of people.... when in fact most you are just a bad ripoff of characters you've watched on American TV shows!

Ever think the reason you know about the negative effects is because you smoke during school....
(I smoked for years through school and most of college btw - so I know very well what I'm talking about - cannabis has plenty of negative effects, just like any other mind altering addictive substance)

01-10-2020 11:58am

stefanovich wrote: »

If he poured an expensive case of whisky down the drain to teach you a lesson would you be upset?

He is a comedy poster. His entire "schtick" is to post a post which contains a line so lacking in self awareness that it triggers the reader. It was funny and well done at the start and less funny now just cause it's old and done to death. Though he occasionally (like 1 / 50 posts) does manage to put some original spin on it which makes it slightly funny again.

Anyway the "joke" in this post is clearly that he is lacking the self awareness to notice that maybe burning 100s of euros of another persons property was what made them angry - but rather it was that he took the kids drugs away.

BagheeraBlue wrote: »

do it in private by all means but it ****ing stinks so keep it out of public places

Actually I quite like the smell even second hand. I can not say the same for the stink when someone comes into work the day after a night on the Guinness and Whisky though. One guy with the stuff coming out of his pours can pollute an entire office for a day.

But hey - smell is subjective. Who knew

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

How do you explain the lack of alcoholics in countries with very little culture of alcohol consumption?

Hard to explain anything until you present the actual studies on it really. Like that article about Morrocco I posted above. If the figures people like the "WHO" are using are self-reported then that is suspect. Show actual hard data before demanding we "explain" that data please.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

But of course, just like alcohol, most people will bury their heads in the sand and ignore the obvious. Because it suits their agenda to do so. The selfish generation.

But who exactly is ignoring it? Read my posts again for example. I do the opposite of ignoring it. I very much _include_ it in the reasons I have for thinking having it illegal is a bad idea.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Good old George was a pot smoker too... go figure!

So is Joe Rogan apparently. Shame he has ended up so destitute and unsuccessful

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 01-10-2020 12:21pm

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Big shocker, eh... I make different points in different posts.

Creates a bit a problem for you though doesn't it?

How do you explain the lack of alcoholics in countries with very little culture of alcohol consumption?

Makes it very difficult to absolve yourself of blame for problem drug users in society, just because you partake in moderation...

But of course, just like alcohol, most people will bury their heads in the sand and ignore the obvious. Because it suits their agenda to do so. The selfish generation.

I think I agree with George Carlin... we are witnessing the end stages of human civilization. The closing act of our species. And although, like George, I enjoy highlighting the mistakes we are making... I am somewhat indifferent to it all in a way.

Not indifferent enough to join the herd as they march defiantly and stridently off the cliff edge, confident that they'll have a soft landing... but indifferent enough to sit back a watch it unfold.

Good old George was a pot smoker too... go figure! :pac:

I can only go on the posts you make, which were immature and generalistic. And this one neither adds to what you've already said nor resounds to what I posted.

Tony EH · 01-10-2020 12:26pm

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

I’d be extremely hesitant about legalising weed. I’ve seen the effects this supposedly harmless drug has on people. My brother started smoking cannabis as a teenager, and he’s now like a character from that Hardy Bucks show. Hanging around a rural town with no ambitions to improve himself, or to face the reality that he’s psychologically addicted to the dissociative effects of cannabis.

He has also mentioned to me that the modern strains of weed are extremely strong, and this is the product being consumed by the majority of users. It’s a drug that is having a devastating impact on the mental health of young men.

I’d also challenge the idea that stoners are relaxed and chilled people. They become extremely angry when their supply of their drugs is affected. My brother and his friends found a large bag of cannabis at a festival a number of years back. Worth hundreds of euros. I was home on holiday at the time, and decided to burn that bag of cannabis as a way of teaching him a lesson, and to make sure he wasn’t tempted to start selling it.

The anger and bile directed at me was astonishing. It’s a nasty, insidious, and dirty drug.

I have to echo this. I have seen people close to me who can't go a day without it and anyone that says that it's not addictive is...well, blowing smoke up your arse. It might not be physically addictive in the way other drugs become. But it can form a very severe mental crutch. I've seen this first hand in several people, which indicates that there's a pattern involved somewhere.

In saying that, I'd still be in favour of decriminalisation. Getting a criminal record for having a bit of dope on you is rather silly. But I'd be loath to go to outright legalisation.

Still though, as I said earlier in the thread, the conversation around legality needs to be had. But it needs to be honest and truthful. The strains today are not without their dangers and they're a far different kettle of fish than what I would have been used to years ago, that's for sure.

hetuzozaho · 01-10-2020 12:31pm

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

I’d be extremely hesitant about legalising weed. I’ve seen the effects this supposedly harmless drug has on people. My brother started smoking cannabis as a teenager, and he’s now like a character from that Hardy Bucks show. Hanging around a rural town with no ambitions to improve himself, or to face the reality that he’s psychologically addicted to the dissociative effects of cannabis.

He has also mentioned to me that the modern strains of weed are extremely strong, and this is the product being consumed by the majority of users. It’s a drug that is having a devastating impact on the mental health of young men.

I’d also challenge the idea that stoners are relaxed and chilled people. They become extremely angry when their supply of their drugs is affected. My brother and his friends found a large bag of cannabis at a festival a number of years back. Worth hundreds of euros. I was home on holiday at the time, and decided to burn that bag of cannabis as a way of teaching him a lesson, and to make sure he wasn’t tempted to start selling it.

The anger and bile directed at me was astonishing. It’s a nasty, insidious, and dirty drug.

Could be your brother is the problem and not the drug maybe?

I know a guy who smokes the whole time and is an award winning actor, comedian, writer, producer and director.

Like everything in life, YMMV :pac:

AdrianBalboa · 01-10-2020 12:36pm

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Could be your brother is the problem and not the drug maybe?

I know a guy who smokes the whole time and is an award winning actor, comedian, writer, producer and director.

Like everything in life, YMMV :pac:

What's his name?

Ted_YNWA · 01-10-2020 12:36pm

Mod

Attack the post, not the poster rules apply. Less of the personal digs at users. Multiple posts deleted.

01-10-2020 12:59pm

Tony EH wrote: »

I've seen this first hand in several people, which indicates that there's a pattern involved somewhere.

The people I have seen use it are quite active and live pretty much entirely normal lives. I do a kind of guided meditation thing once a week and since I do it free I sometimes get gifts off the students.

Maruijana in various forms of grass and resin and so on has been common. The drug users who give it to me are normal people - quite spiritual and active and social.

Which all indicates that there's a pattern involved somewhere

I think the pattern in question is maybe clear. In your case - you are the common denominator - in my case I am. For whatever reason my social and extended circles have one kind of user. Yours another. The "pattern" is that we surround ourselves or encounter different people.

This is the danger of anecdote. _Neither_ of us should be using our direct experience to look for patterns as in both cases we can be misled as the data will be selective.

Tony EH wrote: »

The strains today are not without their dangers and they're a far different kettle of fish than what I would have been used to years ago, that's for sure.

Agreed. Black market strains are cut to have a much different agenda today. Which is a bad thing. Something hopefully regulation would address. I like the sound of the shops I have heard described in the US where you can walk in and tell them what you want and what your concerns are. And they try to fit a product/strain to you.

As it has been described to me - you walk in and say something like "Well I want a relaxing experience but since I have some things to do I do not want to be too distracted or out of my head - and on previous experiences I also noticed a slight tendency to paranoia when smoking weed" and the person in the shop can fit a suggestion to you with the right balance of THC CBD and so on for you.

As a very uncommon user of the drug I can not say how true any of that is. Never experienced it myself. It has a touch of the homeopathy practitioner about it. Maybe actual users on here can say more. But it certainly sounds healthier and better regulated than the "skunk" you'll be getting on a street corner.

01-10-2020 1:08pm

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

What's his name?

Could be anyone I suppose. But the Irish Podcaster Blindboy is also a smoker. His podcast is doing well enough to make him a living. He does sell out crowds when he appears live. He just completed a two book book deal and apparently has a new deal for two more books. Some of his work is up for Television Awards. As the BBC commissioned him for a series which has done well enough on the iPlayer. And some of his comedy has 20million views on you tube. Not to mention he has landed some interesting interviews with legitimate media people like Spike Lee and well known people in the US like Sami Zayn.

So I suppose "award winning actor, comedian, writer, producer and director" could almost be him for example. And he is known to smoke lightly 2-3 times a week and to go on the very occasional out of his head bender.

Don't really know any smokers that much myself. I did bump into a lovely Irish guy who smokes _a lot_ in Budapest where he runs a moderately successful restaurant and night club. Damn good food it was too. Wonder if he is still there. He looked like an 8 foot version of jesus - but very with it and intelligent and fun guy. Quite kind too as when I couldnt find a particular bar in Budapest I was looking for he took 40 minutes out of his day to walk me there personally.

chrissb8 · 01-10-2020 1:35pm

Ultrflat wrote: »

I don't have a problem with ending prohibition on weed.

How ever I draw the line at bunch of stoners walking around Dublin in some pathetic attempt of protesting about it. While smoking joints the size of sausages and claiming this is the way to get it legalized. Because its not. It just signif's that you have no idea how to present an argument.

If you want to fight to leagalize weed then I'm behind it but do it in a way that's both informative and educational. More people are likely to listen. When you walk around monged out of your mind coming up with bull ****...

Then your only hurting your self.

Yes I partake. I don't feel the need to shove it in peoples faces.

This x1000 times. How I feel about it as well. I detest the lack of awareness at these so called protests when most can see it's half an excuse to just go out and get blazed.

I love the stuff too, but who are you most likely to listen to....a together person putting forward cogent arguments.....or some blitzed red eyed stoner that looks every bit the stereotype. Driveling off some poorly constructed arguments about how it can cure cancer or whatabouutery when comparing it to alcohol etc.

In favour of legalising it, but I just hate that group of stoner culture which I feel by and large don't represent someone like me who likes to smoke. I imagine most who smoke have jobs and live fairly productive lives and like you said, don't make a song and dance about it. Just at these protests, would make you think otherwise.

irishblessing · 01-10-2020 1:42pm

Tony EH wrote: »

I have to echo this. I have seen people close to me who can't go a day without it and anyone that says that it's not addictive is...well, blowing smoke up your arse. It might not be physically addictive in the way other drugs become. But it can form a very severe mental crutch. I've seen this first hand in several people, which indicates that there's a pattern involved somewhere.

In saying that, I'd still be in favour of decriminalisation. Getting a criminal record for having a bit of dope on you is rather silly. But I'd be loath to go to outright legalisation.

Still though, as I said earlier in the thread, the conversation around legality needs to be had. But it needs to be honest and truthful. The strains today are not without their dangers and they're a far different kettle of fish than what I would have been used to years ago, that's for sure.

While it's not physically addictive it can become a habit or a crutch and well, that's sad tbh. When life is difficult or overwhelming, people sometimes turn to different unhealthy things that helps them cope. Alcohol. Marijuana. Food. Eating disorder. Withdrawing or running away. Other drugs such as cocaine. Etc...The pattern is in life trauma and the effects of that not being dealt with in a more healthy way. Marijuana use does have risks for developing brains and those with psychiatric issues.
Yep, decriminalisation is certainly the way to go. Our schools are mostly older buildings in which our children are educated in some of the largest class sizes in Europe. Massively in favour of legalising and using tax revenue to improve our education sector.

irishblessing · 01-10-2020 2:32pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I like the sound of the shops I have heard described in the US where you can walk in and tell them what you want and what your concerns are. And they try to fit a product/strain to you.

As it has been described to me - you walk in and say something like "Well I want a relaxing experience but since I have some things to do I do not want to be too distracted or out of my head - and on previous experiences I also noticed a slight tendency to paranoia when smoking weed" and the person in the shop can fit a suggestion to you with the right balance of THC CBD and so on for you.

As a very uncommon user of the drug I can not say how true any of that is. Never experienced it myself. It has a touch of the homeopathy practitioner about it. Maybe actual users on here can say more. But it certainly sounds healthier and better regulated than the "skunk" you'll be getting on a street corner.

I can speak to this. I have family & friends in some US states, and in visiting them over the years my family and I have been to NY, Florida, Colorado, California and Oregon. My family and I were last in Oregon visiting a relative and what you described is exactly the way it is. Marijuana shops are everywhere and in the city centre called Portland marijuana shops were on every other block. You could walk in and tell them exactly the reason or effect you're after and they match it. It's all laboratory tested and has the exact strain and % of the strain mix on a label. If you don't want a high at all and need therapeutic effects they have cbd tinctures and gummies. CBD mixed with a bit of sativa or Indica depending on what you're afte as well. Pre-rolled joints or vape cartridges or gummies in fridges, or tinctures in vials. If you're worried about your lungs via smoking they have gummies or tincture drops you put under your tongue. It's absolutely incredible the choice and the employees are all informed as if they were chemists. Everything is labeled with strength % and traced back to the lab it was tested in. You could tell them you have arthritis, or insomnia, or anxiety or you want to unleash your best creative potential (haha) and they would list your best options.
I was blown away by the professionalism of it all. Workplaces there organising work parties would often have marijuana options as well as a paid bar for drink. Organic options too! Taxes on sales are tied to the state revenue and pour back in to their school system which is all accounted for. Honestly it's amazing...

01-10-2020 2:46pm

^ Heh thanks I knew someone would have ins of it. Could you imagine trying to have the same conversation with your local street dealer? Response would be more something like "Deeeyaahh waaaahnt da stufffe rrr not buhd? I aaaahint got all day mahn" in that wonderful Dublin Accent we love so well

irishblessing · 01-10-2020 2:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

^ Heh thanks I knew someone would have ins of it. Could you imagine trying to have the same conversation with your local street dealer? Response would be more something like "Deeeyaahh waaaahnt da stufffe rrr not buhd? I aaaahint got all day mahn" in that wonderful Dublin Accent we love so well

haha I can only imagine. I've only ever had the occasional grass from the youngest brother in law and of course no idea where it was grown or what it even is. Such a different experience altogether from my experience in the US or in Amsterdam :pac:

Thelonious Monk · 01-10-2020 3:01pm

Could be just me but I find all this different strain and effects thing to be bullsh*t, all properly grown indoor skunk has the same effects. The whole weed sommelier thing is a bit ridiculous.

irishblessing · 01-10-2020 3:14pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Could be just me but I find all this different strain and effects thing to be bullsh*t, all properly grown indoor skunk has the same effects. The whole weed sommelier thing is a bit ridiculous.

Sorry, but you're wrong. That's like saying all pharmaceutical drugs are the same- same effects and same strength.

Why do you say you find it bs? Have you experienced this superior system?

murphyebass · 01-10-2020 9:23pm

I’d be in favour If legalising it but I can’t see it happening any time soon unfortunately.

The UK will do it first then we’ll have no choice with the border situation.

What people against legalising it seem to forget is that the people who want it already get it. Those who don’t want it don’t get it.

Instead of encouraging criminal behaviour And supporting dealers countrywide it needs to be legalised and regulated.

Alcohol is available to buy for everyone but the entire country aren’t alcoholics. Kids aren’t served booze (for the most part) and it would be the same with weed.

Then there’s the tax argument as well. The country could do with a boost to the finances let’s be honest.

It’s a shame we’re so prudish as a nation.

And lastly I hate that Mary Bloggs is sitting there saying absolutely not to legalising weed whilst downing a bottle of Pinot.

The two substances are on par with each other. Both nice in their own right.

lucalux · 01-10-2020 11:55pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Could be just me but I find all this different strain and effects thing to be bullsh*t, all properly grown indoor skunk has the same effects. The whole weed sommelier thing is a bit ridiculous.

I think it's more akin to someone choosing to drink a 4% beer or half a bottle of absinthe.
Strains matter a good bit, the CBD vs THC etc, we just don't have the facilities to study the other thousands of cannabinoids, yet.

ShatterAlan · 02-10-2020 12:49am

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

No good reason? Have a word with yourself, he was growing drugs. What age is the cutoff you get a free pass to do what you like then?

Frail . You sound like a red top rag.

Making 100 pints of homebrew cider and getting palatic from it is "growing your owns drugs" too.

Do you slap your kids? Because that's illegal too. Anyone who doesn't slap their kids tends to be more open-minded and would probably be in the "legalise cannabis" camp.

ShatterAlan · 02-10-2020 1:00am

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Yeah maaaan... legalize it all maaaannn... groovy... peace and free love dude! :rolleyes:

You seem so cool and open minded... how can I be more like YOU?

Maybe I should buy some flares too, and we can braid each others hair and sing kumbaya together!

I've no problem if anyone wants to be a pothead... knock yourself out. It's the idea that these notions are somehow revolutionary or that they're going to bring society forward into a new enlightened future.

Everyone chill out, smoke some pot and all society's issues will melt away in a beautiful haze... that's the way I thought too, when I was a smoker.

That's the way potheads think... why can't everyone else just chill out and enjoy the buzz. Your typical pothead thinks if only we could get more people to smoke, everyone would see the world in a new revolutionary way... we'd transcend all these silly problems we have and become a new breed of people!

Cannabis can be fun, but if you spend enough time on it your brain gradually turns to mush... And don't give me that BS about using it properly - everyone thinks they use it the "right" way. And they're all wrong!

You could transport all of these people back into the 60's, and their braindead ideas for society would be just as revolutionary and groundbreaking as those lads...

I'm sure 50 years from now, we'll have the same people thinking the same copy and paste thoughts too. Evolution clearly is a very slow process... (considerably slower for some people!) :pac:

Who's talking about a new society? People who are advocating it's legalisation are of the bent that it will take the criminals out of the equation. What's wrong with that.

The people who rail against legalisation are the same muppets who predicted that society would collapse if divorce was legalised. Children would be abandoned and left to roam the streets as urchins if same-sex marriage was legalised. Women would be shagging like bunnies if condoms were legalised. Then women would be shagging like bunnies WITHOUT condoms and rocking up to the clinic for an abortion like they were going to get their nails done if the 8th was repealed.

ShatterAlan · 02-10-2020 1:09am

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

What’s your point, dude? This is all very rambling and quite incoherent.

It's neither rambling nor incoherent. It's quite clear and cogent. You must have attention span limitations.

Potential-Monke · 02-10-2020 1:10am

I'd love to ban coffee for a month. Can't buy it in shops, cafes, restaurants, etc. I think within a week we would see the country burn. The amount of people I know who 'just can't' without their coffee in the morning is mind boggling. But it's legal so it's grand. Same for cigarettes, and the same for a lot of people after work or at weekends needing their alcohol fix.

Re: turning people into potheads. I had withdrawn from society before I became a stoner. And it's crazy that in this day and age you can choose your own gender and most people won't care, but god forbid you just don't want to deal with people, society and all the BS that comes with it, there's something wrong with you then. Just so happens that weed suits that lifestyle, but as many, many others have said that's just 1 way to enjoy it.

Even if I gave up weed (which I've had no choice in for a few months in the last year), I won't suddenly become this social animal who is suddenly amazing at sports and making friends and drinking and having a laugh. I'll still be anti-social because people suck. And I also discovered people suck well before I started smoking. Turns out the people I've met via smoking have been far, far nicer and more relaxed and welcoming of people. As taxAHcruel said, your own circle is but a small example of the wider groups of smokers you get. Personal anecdotes ain't worth squat.

ShatterAlan · 02-10-2020 1:35am

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

No, it’s not my inability to understand a text. I’m a smart cookie. It’s struggling to understand the point you are trying to make about cannabis. Your post is a mixture of vagaries, rambling and unrelated themes, pop psychology, and getting bogged down in the semantics of words. All it’s missing is tedious multi quoting.

I’m sure there’s an odd person who is a chronic cannabis smoker and successful. Rather like the functioning alcoholic. They are still drug addicts through. The idea that weed is some harmless drug is the greatest myth ever spun. Most potheads are losers in life. Were they destined to be losers before they became stoners, or did cannabis accelerate the process of them becoming losers?

Are they though? This is another stupid generalisation. What's your definition of a loser in life and why would that even enter the debate about the reasons for or against legalisation?

I live between the Netherlands and Ireland. I know a lot of very wealthy people in Amsterdam. I've been to their parties. These bashes were blizzards of cocaine. If by your definition all potheads are losers then all coke-heads are winners and we should legalise cocaine so we can all be uber-rich.

Most heavy smokers and drinkers are losers when it comes to being champion athletes. They seem to make pretty good actors and politicians though.

bobbyy gee · 02-10-2020 1:41am

History

https://wayofleaf.com/blog/the-history-of-cannabis-how-it-became-illegal-truth-exposed

ShatterAlan · 02-10-2020 2:02am

Ultrflat wrote: »

I don't have a problem with ending prohibition on weed.

How ever I draw the line at bunch of stoners walking around Dublin in some pathetic attempt of protesting about it. While smoking joints the size of sausages and claiming this is the way to get it legalized. Because its not. It just signif's that you have no idea how to present an argument.

If you want to fight to leagalize weed then I'm behind it but do it in a way that's both informative and educational. More people are likely to listen. When you walk around monged out of your mind coming up with bull ****...

Then your only hurting your self.

Yes I partake. I don't feel the need to shove it in peoples faces.

There are many ways to bring attention to your cause. There will always be the detractors because they are reluctant to empathise. They are reluctant to see the bigger picture. Did smearing excrement on prisons walls, dying on hunger strike and bombing British soldiers help? Maybe, maybe not. But all the efforts of going the parliamentary route previously proved fruitless. Did a suffragette throwing herself in front of a horse at the Kentucky Derby help the cause? Who knows? But it damn well got people talking about the topic and it galvanized a lot of women. Did Rosa Parks refusing to sit at the back of the bus help the Civil Rights movement? You could easily argue that she should just have meekly sat at the back like a good little neegra and found a better way to make her point.

Rubberchikken · 02-10-2020 2:12am

Nothing anyone will ever say will change my mind regarding legalising any drugs.
They are for wasters and losers. My opinion.

ShatterAlan · 02-10-2020 2:25am

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

What about the fact that countries with with no real culture of alcohol consumption, or even an outright prohibition - such as in muslim countries - also tend to have very low levels of alcoholics?

And those countries with the highest consumption of alcohol, tend to have the highest amount of alcoholics!?

You cannot escape the fact that the culture of drug use creates the subculture of problem users. The bigger and more open the culture, the more problem users you will create.

If you opened public houses tomorrow, legally selling crack or heroin to anyone over 18... like we do with alcohol... (which is a much more dangerous drug btw) the country would very quickly develop many multiples of the problem users we currently have today with those drugs.

Just because most people can avoid abusing a drug doesn't mean their use has no effect on society. Ubiquitous drug use creates problem users... always has and always will.

Our culture of alcohol consumption has had disastrous consequences on millions of individuals throughout our history, and 1,000's of families have been completely destroyed by that particular drug culture. It's actually the moderate users that create the culture, that in turn destroys people's lives!

Saying I don't have a problem, and my friends don't have a problem, Steve Jobs didn't have a problem... therefore what's the problem? Sorry but that's head in the sand sort of thinking. We need more intelligent thinking than this... we need people who can look at the bigger picture, and not just view this through their own very small and misguided prism of the world.

This post is just truly pathetic. Alcohol is LEGAL in almost all Muslim countries. Iran, for your information has a chronic heroin problem from neighbouring Afghanistan. Heroin is illegal too.

Your argument that legalising something will automatically result in an epidemic of ill-effects is inane. If we legalised rape tomorrow would you run out on a spree of sexual assault? If assault was legalised would you head out with your baseball bat and engage in an orgy of random violence? Yet if cannabis was legalised the whole country would be transformed into the Land Of The Walking Monged?

What happened when Prohibition was repealed in the US. Did the whole country get wasted and grind to a halt? No.

And to refer back to your alcohol ban. Alcohol is highly restricted (almost banned) in the US state of Utah yet teens in the state are far more likely to binge drink than in any other state.

ShatterAlan · 02-10-2020 2:32am

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

But that's what many people do when they use the drug... so why would that not be a great way to portray the drug to the masses?

Unless you would prefer to present a more dishonest picture, so as to give a more respectable image of the drug?

It's a hallucinogenic drug... so why wouldn't people who want to push it's legalization, be hallucinating while promoting it? Perfect advertisement!

Cannabis is NOT a hallucinogenic.

ShatterAlan · 02-10-2020 2:44am

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

I don’t think “legalising” is a good idea. I, certainly, believe it is a waste of Garda time to be raiding grow houses or “busting” a dealer.

My main fear is people taking up weed smoking at an early age. It just isn’t good for “developing” brains. Anyone I know that smoked the weed when we were growing up, the ones who didn’t like sports, just became slow witted and unhealthy.

Most went nowhere, they’d still be living at home “puffing” their life away now. With their poor parents worried about who will look after the guy when they are gone. It’s just a very sad situation.

If it was ever to be “legalised” I would like to see excessive punishments for those found “dealing” to anyone under 18. We really don’t need anymore of these infantilised, grown assed, man-children, addicted to the weed, and computer games, and being cared for by their, pension age, parents.

Would you prefer they had a criminal record and still smoked their life away?

AngryHippie · 02-10-2020 2:48am

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Well enough to be growing the **** though. Bottom line: it’s illegal.

Hate to break it to you.....Its a weed. Thats where the name comes from. Drop some seed in the ground and it grows. You don't have to pedal it or nurture it or drag it out of the ground. Rain and daylight and hey presto.

Cultivating is a drastic overstatement of what is required to grow dooby.

It grows like nettles or briars.

He wasn't funding organized crime, he wasn't funnelling money into the black market, he wasn't doing anything destructive at all.

The criminal justice system is way out of date in this regard and Dail Eireann completely out of its comfort zone in this regard because it is afraid of some mad electoral backlash that doesn't exist. It is just a gallery of tutting biddies and whatabout merchants with a lot of nodding and winking from the Vintners that are stopping anything being done about this.

Decriminalization or re-scheduling would be a very basic step that can allow people to openly participate and have informed discussion first hand, not just with the drastic case-workers that have seen psychosis, but the other tens of thousands of people who harmlessly have a toke or a cookie for their amusement, for pain relief, for relaxation or for recreation. It would eliminate the judgement and stigma and allow an actual adult conversation about it.

Instead people who know nothing about it run around convincing each other they know best and heap sh!t on anyone that dares contradict them with inconvenient facts, social norms in countries or states that have already taken the step and are seeing the impacts (not all positive, but net positive)

Stating that "bottom line: its illegal" is practically trolling in a thread titled cannabis legalisation Ireland. It adds nothing to the conversation, and just repeats the bleeding obvious

ShatterAlan · 02-10-2020 2:59am

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

I’d be extremely hesitant about legalising weed. I’ve seen the effects this supposedly harmless drug has on people. My brother started smoking cannabis as a teenager, and he’s now like a character from that Hardy Bucks show. Hanging around a rural town with no ambitions to improve himself, or to face the reality that he’s psychologically addicted to the dissociative effects of cannabis.

He has also mentioned to me that the modern strains of weed are extremely strong, and this is the product being consumed by the majority of users. It’s a drug that is having a devastating impact on the mental health of young men.

I’d also challenge the idea that stoners are relaxed and chilled people. They become extremely angry when their supply of their drugs is affected. My brother and his friends found a large bag of cannabis at a festival a number of years back. Worth hundreds of euros. I was home on holiday at the time, and decided to burn that bag of cannabis as a way of teaching him a lesson, and to make sure he wasn’t tempted to start selling it.

The anger and bile directed at me was astonishing. It’s a nasty, insidious, and dirty drug.

So it being illegal had zero effect on his penchant to partake then.

AngryHippie · 02-10-2020 3:12am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Could be just me but I find all this different strain and effects thing to be bullsh*t, all properly grown indoor skunk has the same effects. The whole weed sommelier thing is a bit ridiculous.

Ever noticed the difference between a cappucino, flat white and a latte....Thats just toying with the milk.

Different strains do 100% have different impacts.

Some nice dutch purple haze would have you welded to the couch with a packet of cookies listening to dark side of the moon. AK47 would have you perked up and looking for stimulation even though a bit gooey and lethargic. These are some of the basic historical strains that came out of the dutch cultivation movement. It has become a bit of a science. Some of the differences are orange carrrot/purple carrot and not that noticeable, others are much more extreme.

The longer the black market is allowed to run as it has been, the more extreme the strains will become as they try to charge higher prices for a lower grow cost. Thats just business as far as they are concerned.

All of the above being said, decriminalisation would help to reduce the 'rebel' appeal to teenagers and move it away from school gates. If that was the only benefit, it would be worth it. Teens are vulnerable enough and suggestible enough without having the pressure of putting something that can actually do harm at their stage of brain development

ShatterAlan · 02-10-2020 3:44am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Could be just me but I find all this different strain and effects thing to be bullsh*t, all properly grown indoor skunk has the same effects. The whole weed sommelier thing is a bit ridiculous.

As a beer drinker I find your observations to be the polar opposite of mine. Give me a load of German lager brewed according to their laws and I'll get drunk and feel groggy but ok the next day. Give me some mass produced, chemical-laced muck from the US and I'll need a priest the following day. They are both beers.

simongurnick · 02-10-2020 3:52am

I live in Canada. Been legal here for a while. All is well. The country has not gone crazy and loads of jobs have been created. I live in a mid sized town in a rural area. Three plants here that used to grow tomatoes are weed ops. Huge too. Needs to be done in Ireland

kowloonkev · 02-10-2020 4:15am

Personally I'd ban alcohol and cigarettes too if I had the chance and I wouldn't even entertain the idea of legalising more drugs. If there was a referendum on the matter I'd make sure to fly home to vote against it.

ShatterAlan · 02-10-2020 4:32am

simongurnick wrote: »

I live in Canada. Been legal here for a while. All is well. The country has not gone crazy and loads of jobs have been created. I live in a mid sized town in a rural area. Three plants here that used to grow tomatoes are weed ops. Huge too. Needs to be done in Ireland

The drinking age there is 18 as well. Has that resulted in road carnage like the 21 limit was supposed to prevent south of the border.

Oh...and I believe assisted suicide is legal in Canada as well. I hear such legislation has resulted in the population being now a quarter of what it used to be because everyone is hanging themselves.

murphyebass · 02-10-2020 9:37am

kowloonkev wrote: »

Personally I'd ban alcohol and cigarettes too if I had the chance and I wouldn't even entertain the idea of legalising more drugs. If there was a referendum on the matter I'd make sure to fly home to vote against it.

And your reasons are?

irishblessing · 02-10-2020 9:48am

Rubberchikken wrote: »

Nothing anyone will ever say will change my mind regarding legalising any drugs.
They are for wasters and losers. My opinion.

So you don't drink then? Do your family or friends or are they wasters and losers.

magic_murph · 02-10-2020 1:18pm

kowloonkev wrote: »

Personally I'd ban alcohol and cigarettes too if I had the chance and I wouldn't even entertain the idea of legalising more drugs. If there was a referendum on the matter I'd make sure to fly home to vote against it.

you sound like the kinda guy that looks forward to reading the obituaries

magic_murph · 02-10-2020 1:25pm

- Legalize it
- Control quality - remove the risk of tainted 50bags
- Educate people on what they are smoking - different strains have different effects - the customer can decide what they want in a controlled, safe environment.
- Like most other countries create a monthly limit you can buy
- Allow personal growth of a couple of plants for personal use
- anybody that buys form a shop must present a government issued card that tracks amounts purchase and age etc
- The black market will always exist just like it does for cigerettes, alcohol, fake bags etc - but it would be greatly reduced
- It's not for everybody but is for a lot of people - personal choice at the end of the day.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 02-10-2020 1:37pm

kowloonkev wrote: »

Personally I'd ban alcohol and cigarettes too if I had the chance and I wouldn't even entertain the idea of legalising more drugs. If there was a referendum on the matter I'd make sure to fly home to vote against it.

I'd argue in favour of personal liberties for responsible adults myself, seeing as we live in a free society. Otherwise, we just become a totalitatrians state.

Thelonious Monk · 02-10-2020 1:54pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

As a beer drinker I find your observations to be the polar opposite of mine. Give me a load of German lager brewed according to their laws and I'll get drunk and feel groggy but ok the next day. Give me some mass produced, chemical-laced muck from the US and I'll need a priest the following day. They are both beers.

All beer makes me equally hungover. One of the worst hangovers I've ever had was the day after a drinking session in Munich, drinking in the Augustiner and Spaten kellers, those flagship clean reinheitsgebot beers.
For me it's the alcohol that makes you sick, not the other ingredients.

Cannabis Legalisation Ireland

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