Cannabis Legalisation Ireland

kjl

Tony EH wrote: »

No, it isn't, Cathy fuckin Newman.


Try reading it again, slower maybe.

If you're trying to be Jordan Peterson, he never loses his cool.

kjl

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

No such brother exists.

Just make the stuff legal and tax the **** out of it.

Criminal elements will still push it though, obviously some people will want to go down the cheaper route to source it, any one who thinks that massively negative element to it will go away once it becomes legal is frankly deluded.

As one user pointed out you can buy counterfeit cigarettes but I would say 90% of the regular uses wouldn't do that especially because they don't know what they are getting. A regulated tax solution is a much better argument than leaving it 100% on the black market.

If the pricing is normal and the tax is ok, nobody is going to want to use black market products. Unless the decided to undercut themselves which won't happen. Either way the criminals are losing a large proportion of their income.

kjl

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Re: alcohol is worse than pot

Ah sure you always see goons roll out of Guinness warehouse to do a drive-by shooting. Something about 'turf wars' .... :pac:


Erm yeah....

No but I see plenty of alcohol fuel fights in public streets outside of nightclubs. I see an A&E swapped every Friday and Saturday night from alcohol.

Don't you realise that by legalising cannabis you will remove the gang culture surrounding it.

ArchXStanton

s1ippy wrote: »

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/hywoie/could_someone_explain_why_64_year_old_tony_keoghs/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Meanwhile Tony Keogh has been in jail for weeks because they said his crop had a "street value" of €14k or some shit. I saw those plants and it was closer to about 3k worth, when grown, if he was going to sell it (which it doesn't sound like he was). That fallacy landing this frail, elderly man with a criminal charge is absolutely scandalous.

I've been buying Keoghs and writing to my TDs but sometimes I just think what the hell is the point in anything anymore when this can happen for no fucking good reason .

I counted roughly 30 plants in the photo and I think they value them at 800 euro each regardless of what stage they're at, from a young plant to a mature one, I think he got away lightly knowing the usual Garda estimates....

B.A._Baracus

kjl wrote: »

No but I see plenty of alcohol fuel fights in public streets outside of nightclubs. I see an A&E swapped every Friday and Saturday night from alcohol.

Don't you realise that by legalising cannabis you will remove the gang culture surrounding it.

That's the thing I question how much would we bill stopping gang culture / scumbags from it.
Or course you'd be cutting out a good bit. No arguments there. But wouldn't we be legalising scumbags too (if you get me)

Remember those head shops years ago. A sort of legal way to buy drugs. They were still being run by scum bags. Remember one burned down and accordingly a whole lot of cash under the floorboards.

In an ideal world we'd legalise it and everything would be ok. It would be like alcohol. Over 18, can't drive under the influence, can't come into work on it etc etc. You'd be able to go into a shop and buy it between certain hours. No smoking it in public places like the smokrs. You get the idea. A smooth transition.

I don't see it working out so easy imo. Be it legal hash is so expensive people turn to drug dealers (there's a smoke market cause the fags are too expensive) etc.

kjl

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

That's the thing I question how much would we bill stopping gang culture / scumbags from it.
Or course you'd be cutting out a good bit. No arguments there. But wouldn't we be legalising scumbags too (if you get me)

Remember those head shops years ago. A sort of legal way to buy drugs. They were still being run by scum bags. Remember one burned down and accordingly a whole lot of cash under the floorboards.

In an ideal world we'd legalise it and everything would be ok. It would be like alcohol. Over 18, can't drive under the influence, can't come into work on it etc etc. You'd be able to go into a shop and buy it between certain hours. No smoking it in public places like the smokrs. You get the idea. A smooth transition.

I don't see it working out so easy imo. Be it legal hash is so expensive people turn to drug dealers (there's a smoke market cause the fags are too expensive) etc.

But is the alternative to just leave it completely in the hands of criminals?

Regardless of the market for counterfeit cigarettes, 95% of cigarettes are sold legally in shops.

Cannabis is only expensive because the supply is controlled by criminal gangs. In Canada it cost a lot less than it does in Ireland. There is plenty of margin for shop owners and tax before you come close to what it costs normally.

For 3g in Ireland, you are looking at about €50, it used to be 3.5 but the dealer's got greedy. In Amsterdam it's about €7-9 per gram. Which is well below.

Another things is more users don't actually want to deal with dealers, it's not like in NY where they deliver to your door and have multiple stains. It more like you call a guy and meet him in a car park somewhere that suits both of your times. I am almost certain that 95% of people will be more than happy to walk into a shop anytime they want and not risk meeting someone just for slightly cheaper weed.

Plus, have you seen these shops in the states, they have everything from plant to oils, vapes and edibles.

Those head shops are a great example of how it didn't work out well but they weren't regulated licenced shops. They were selling bath salts which by the way were cocaine facsimiles. The spice weed they sold was so poor and possible dangerous.

Just because there are some problems that need to be fixed doesn't mean that the current solution is a better one.

Tony EH

kjl wrote: »

If you're trying to be Jordan Peterson, he never loses his cool.

I don't have to try to be anyone.

i_surge

kjl wrote: »

As one user pointed out you can buy counterfeit cigarettes but I would say 90% of the regular uses wouldn't do that especially because they don't know what they are getting. A regulated tax solution is a much better argument than leaving it 100% on the black market.

If the pricing is normal and the tax is ok, nobody is going to want to use black market products. Unless the decided to undercut themselves which won't happen. Either way the criminals are losing a large proportion of their income.

Especially seeing as the underworld have only been able to produce disgusting poison masquerading as Cannabis from the mid 80s onwards.

It is a high tech industry now involving specialist knowledge and a lot of love and care to produce well cured tasty buds and isolates.

Most people prefer a nice bottle of wine to some tesco white label vodka or moonshine filtered through a sock and are more than happy to pay for it.

i_surge

Also we have some of the most expensive and heavily taxed alcohol in Europe. Where is the black market?! We also have the most expensive weed in Europe, black market margins are huge thanks to prohibition.

The whole argument is blown out of proportion. Price it reasonably, make the shops attractive and weed dealers will be a very very small part of the market and only for bulk at low low prices. No matter what, their profit margins will be slashed.

Part of a dealers marketing strategy is to be as unreliable as possible and the whole process of scoring is a complete pain in the hole, even with the better dealers. Given an alternative no one wants that hassle.

Temptamperu

Spent all day waiting on weed. We need a better system.

Potential-Monke

Temptamperu wrote: »

Spent all day waiting on weed. We need a better system.

I've given up trying. Could say I'm off it at this stage. But will need a bag this weekend. Happy enough though, made the last Q last nearly 2 weeks, when back in March it would have lasted less than a week. Far less... Grand to have the money for it, and I could get back to those times for about half the cost if it was legal.

kjl

Temptamperu wrote: »

Spent all day waiting on weed. We need a better system.

But a lot of people on this thread would have us believe that you prefer this and would use this stupid system over just walking into a shop and buying it.

Church on Tuesday

kjl wrote: »

But a lot of people on this thread would have us believe that you prefer this and would use this stupid system over just walking into a shop and buying it.

If it's cheaper then yes.

People who aren't making much money or none at all are going to go for the cheaper option.

Potential-Monke

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

If it's cheaper then yes.

People who aren't making much money or none at all are going to go for the cheaper option.

It would want to be vastly cheaper, and even then I would most likely pick the more expensive but properly regulated option. Having choice is great, you can work towards getting the strain(s) that you like best, and that will always be better than some random weed. Even if they say they're getting it directly from an official grower, I'd still take the legal option I reckon.

Temptamperu

Having lived in amsterdam meself I always went to a real coffee shop. Nice and efficient.

maccored

decriminalise it yes. Legalisation though will just lead to **** being sold in shops and bigger penalties for growing your own (which would prob still be illegal)

kjl

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

If it's cheaper then yes.

People who aren't making much money or none at all are going to go for the cheaper option.

Look most people don't need that much weed to get high. If it costs them even €20 a gram which would be outrageously high is still going to be a better option than getting it from a dealer. Realistically it will cost maybe €10 per gram and that would be a huge price but still cheaper than what it costs today from dealers.

The plant is not expensive and yields high volumes and relatively uses up a relatively small space and cost, especially with LED lighting that has become popular over the last few years.

I know I don't speak for everyone but 3g would typically last me about a month. Maybe 3 weeks. However if I got a vape pen which uses about 3-4 grams to make it would last me 4-6 months.

The cost of weed is not the issue and like I have said so many times, yes there may be a black market but that black market will not have the same verification that the legal market would have an as such 95+% of people would not want to use it.

kjl

maccored wrote: »

decriminalise it yes. Legalisation though will just lead to **** being sold in shops and bigger penalties for growing your own (which would prob still be illegal)

What? Have you been in any of the legal shops in the States or Canada or Amsterdam? Compare that to the quality of what's being sold here.

You don't have a choice when you get it from a dealer. It's just whatever they happen to have be it strong or crap. I agree you do from time to time pick up great strains from dealers but most of the time it's standard weed. It will get you high but that's about it.

In fact the only time I really get good weed from dealers is when they get it from a MOM site, never the crap that's grown locally.

Potential-Monke

Yeah, my best mate had to stop smoking a few months back. He nearly passed out while driving (didn't smoke that day), and ended up in A&E. They found fibreglass and trace amounts of heroin in his lungs, and unless it came from the drink, it came from the weed. Never liked his dealer tbh, and I've either been extremely lucky with my one or I just haven't had any dangerous weed in general. Same friend would go to a shop for the more expensive stuff rather that chance street weed again.

This alone is a reason for legalisation.

maccored

kjl wrote: »

What? Have you been in any of the legal shops in the States or Canada or Amsterdam? Compare that to the quality of what's being sold here.

You don't have a choice when you get it from a dealer. It's just whatever they happen to have be it strong or crap. I agree you do from time to time pick up great strains from dealers but most of the time it's standard weed. It will get you high but that's about it.

In fact the only time I really get good weed from dealers is when they get it from a MOM site, never the crap that's grown locally.

why are you comparing anywhere else to here? here, they'll produce crap and overcharge you.

Carfacemandog

maccored wrote: »

why are you comparing anywhere else to here? here, they'll produce crap and overcharge you.

Actually booze and food are more expensive in Canada than Ireland, sometimes significantly so. I think your post just highlights how used to terrible choices and prices for cannabis are in Ireland, that some people feel that is how it will always be.

Hoop66

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Actually booze and food are more expensive in Canada than Ireland, sometimes significantly so. I think your post just highlights how used to terrible choices and prices for cannabis are in Ireland, that some people feel that is how it will always be.

Price of a pint in Canada = $6CAD = €3.78.

kjl

Hoop66 wrote: »

Price of a pint in Canada = $6CAD = €3.78.

I just looked up on ocs.ca, price of one gram of cannabis flower $4.07CAD let's say like in Ireland the price is double that means it's €5 for a gram of cannabis, still 3-4 times cheaper than black market products.

As I have said there is plenty of room for profit and tax in the industry.

Regardless why is these even a factor? There is already a huge black market which is not taxed and funnels money directly to drug gangs who lace it with fiberglass. How is this even a choice. It make 0 sense to not legalise it.

Carfacemandog

Hoop66 wrote: »

Price of a pint in Canada = $6CAD = €3.78.

Cost of a beer in the shop in Canada starts at $2.20, or €1.40. You can get significantly cheaper here.

kjl

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Cost of a beer in the shop in Canada starts at $2.20, or €1.40. You can get significantly cheaper here.

I don't drink, what's the cost of a can in Ireland?

Carfacemandog

kjl wrote: »

I don't drink, what's the cost of a can in Ireland?

The lowest I've seen recently is €0.80c, so just over half the cost of what it is in Canada.

Ash.J.Williams

amadangomor wrote: »

An huge advantage of legalisation would be regulation.

Don't get why it seems to be super strong skunky weeds available now? It is the equivalent of going to the pub and only having Absinth available.

When I used to smoke a bit I never liked the strong weed. When living in the Netherlands I used to go for mild hashes. The equivalent of going for a regular strength beer to use the pub analogy again.

If I was making the law I would legalise but have strong regulation and harsh penalties for strong THC types. In it's original form the THC was balanced with the other cannabinoids and was less harmful to mental health. These strong strains are bred to produce THC to the max and should remain banned.

Homemade absinthe

spoonerhead

The types of strains coming into Ireland have caused people I know to suffer extremely bad side effects. I agree regulation and legislation are the way to go, but that doesn’t mean weed in general is completely safe! It’s a drug that needs respect, like alcohol it won’t agree with some minds and if abused will do serious mental damage.

Doesn’t make sense to criminalise it though.

bertiebomber

buy some seeds and grow your own its gardening after all and so easy - tomatoes are harder to grow but the weed can be hidden among the tomatoes as the leaves are similar and smell strong too. Rules are just guidelines ...... live as you like. Safer and organic no stranger handling it and contaminating it.

kjl

bertiebomber wrote: »

buy some seeds and grow your own its gardening after all and so easy - tomatoes are harder to grow but the weed can be hidden among the tomatoes as the leaves are similar and smell strong too. Rules are just guidelines ...... live as you like. Safer and organic no stranger handling it and contaminating it.

Well technically that's illegal. Plus if you just grew in a tomato bush it's going to be pretty **** weed.