The story of what led bobby sands to join the IRA

jack923 · 15-07-2016 10:51pm #1

Sands was the eldest of four children. His sisters, Marcella and Bernadette, were born in 1955 and 1958, respectively. After experiencing harassment and intimidation from their neighbours, the family abandoned the development and moved in with friends for six months before being granted housing in the nearby Rathcoole development. Rathcoole was 30% Catholic and featured Catholic schools as well as a nominally Catholic but religiously-integrated youth football club known as Star of the Sea (of which Sands was a member and for whom he played left-back), an unusual circumstance in Northern Ireland.

By 1966, sectarian violence in Rathcoole (along with the rest of Belfast) had considerably worsened, and the minority Catholic population there found itself under siege; Sands and his sisters were forced to run a gauntlet of bottle- and rock-throwing from Protestant youths on the way to school every morning, and the formerly integrated Rathcoole youth football club banned Catholic members and renamed itself "The Kai", which stood for "Kill All Irish". Despite always having had Protestant friends, Sands suddenly found that none of them would even speak to him, and he quickly learned to associate only with Catholics. He left school in 1969 at age 15, and enrolled in Newtownabbey Technical College, beginning an apprenticeship as a coach builder at Alexander's Coach Works in 1970. He worked there for less than a year, enduring constant harassment from his Protestant co-workers, which according to several co-workers he ignored these completely, as he wished to learn a meaningful trade. He was eventually confronted after leaving his shift in January 1971 by a number of his colleagues wearing the armbands of the local Ulster loyalist tartan gang. He was held at gunpoint and told that Alexander's was off-limits to "Fenian scum" and to never come back if he valued his life. This event, by Sands's admission, proved to be the point at which he decided that militancy was the only solution.

jack923 · 15-07-2016 11:03pm

corner of hells · 15-07-2016 11:08pm

jack923 wrote: »

Sands was the eldest of four children. His sisters, Marcella and Bernadette, were born in 1955 and 1958, respectively. After experiencing harassment and intimidation from their neighbours, the family abandoned the development and moved in with friends for six months before being granted housing in the nearby Rathcoole development. Rathcoole was 30% Catholic and featured Catholic schools as well as a nominally Catholic but religiously-integrated youth football club known as Star of the Sea (of which Sands was a member and for whom he played left-back), an unusual circumstance in Northern Ireland.

By 1966, sectarian violence in Rathcoole (along with the rest of Belfast) had considerably worsened, and the minority Catholic population there found itself under siege; Sands and his sisters were forced to run a gauntlet of bottle- and rock-throwing from Protestant youths on the way to school every morning, and the formerly integrated Rathcoole youth football club banned Catholic members and renamed itself "The Kai", which stood for "Kill All Irish". Despite always having had Protestant friends, Sands suddenly found that none of them would even speak to him, and he quickly learned to associate only with Catholics. He left school in 1969 at age 15, and enrolled in Newtownabbey Technical College, beginning an apprenticeship as a coach builder at Alexander's Coach Works in 1970. He worked there for less than a year, enduring constant harassment from his Protestant co-workers, which according to several co-workers he ignored these completely, as he wished to learn a meaningful trade. He was eventually confronted after leaving his shift in January 1971 by a number of his colleagues wearing the armbands of the local Ulster loyalist tartan gang. He was held at gunpoint and told that Alexander's was off-limits to "Fenian scum" and to never come back if he valued his life. This event, by Sands's admission, proved to be the point at which he decided that militancy was the only solution.

That's nice of you.You just transcibed part of a Wikipedia page.

LeinsterDub · 15-07-2016 11:09pm

And? Anyone interested could look this up. Why are you posting this what do you wish to discuss?

maryishere · 15-07-2016 11:23pm

He chose to take his own life. It was a choice his organisation did not give to many of their victims.

jack923 · 15-07-2016 11:24pm

maryishere wrote: »

He chose to take his own life. It was a choice his organisation did not give to many of their victims.

Of course not, you know.... in a war you usually don't give the enemy a choice in the matter

maryishere · 15-07-2016 11:31pm

jack923 wrote: »

Of course not, you know.... in a war you usually don't give the enemy a choice in the matter

We saw that in his organisations attacks, such as the Bloody Friday bombings ( lots of innocent shoppers killed), Le Mons restaurant bombings, Enniskillen, Guildford, Manchester etc.

jack923 · 15-07-2016 11:59pm

maryishere wrote: »

We saw that in his organisations attacks, such as the Bloody Friday bombings ( lots of innocent shoppers killed), Le Mons restaurant bombings, Enniskillen, Guildford, Manchester etc.

There's no such thing as a war where innocents don't die.

Bloody Friday was completelying accident they were underestimated the security forces ability to respond, the restaurant bombing was also an accident one of those responsible was charged on manslaughter and plus there's lots of allegations that the two people who orchestrated the attack were british double agents including the person who was meant to make the warning call done it to halt support for the IRA.

jack923 · 16-07-2016 12:04am

maryishere wrote: »

We saw that in his organisations attacks, such as the Bloody Friday bombings ( lots of innocent shoppers killed), Le Mons restaurant bombings, Enniskillen, Guildford, Manchester etc.

As a matter of fact re reading the evidence just there I have very little doubt this was done on purpose by british double agents. Denis Donaldson was actually one of the two involved

jack923 · 16-07-2016 12:05am

maryishere wrote: »

We saw that in his organisations attacks, such as the Bloody Friday bombings ( lots of innocent shoppers killed), Le Mons restaurant bombings, Enniskillen, Guildford, Manchester etc.

Important police documents and files of interviews with IRA members have apparently been lost.

jack923 · 16-07-2016 12:22am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

And? Anyone interested could look this up. Why are you posting this what do you wish to discuss?

Just for anyone who might pick up an interest after reading something like this

corner of hells · 16-07-2016 12:39am

jack923 wrote: »

Just for anyone who might pick up an interest after reading something like this

The vast majority of us are very aware of our recent history , you also seem determined to consistently discuss violence as if it's something to be proud of.

I'm well into my fourties now and lost an innocent neighbour to terrorist bomb , an soldier acquaintance shot dead and a friend who spent years in prison who will tell you now he wasted a huge portion of his life with terrorist convictions.

It might be time for you to stop looking at our recent past through rose tinted glasses and realise there was years of misery .

barney shamrock · 16-07-2016 12:46am

jack923 wrote:

Just for anyone who might pick up an interest after reading something like this

Thanks! Tonight I've learned he had a strong dislike for furniture retailers.

Zaph · 16-07-2016 12:58am

jack923 wrote: »

There's no such thing as a war where innocents don't die.

And yet they died in disproportionally high numbers during the Troubles. 52% of all "war related" deaths during the period were civilians. But that's OK I suppose because there's no such thing as a war where innocents don't die, as you so glibly put it.

jack923 · 16-07-2016 12:59am

Zaph wrote: »

And yet they died in disproportionally high numbers during the Troubles. 52% of all "war related" deaths during the period were civilians. But that's OK I suppose because there's no such thing as a war where innocents don't die, as you so glibly put it.

Mainly because of loyalist paramilitaries an outsider of the war

jack923 · 16-07-2016 1:03am

corner of hells wrote: »

The vast majority of us are very aware of our recent history , you also seem determined to consistently discuss violence as if it's something to be proud of.

I'm well into my fourties now and lost an innocent neighbour to terrorist bomb , an soldier acquaintance shot dead and a friend who spent years in prison who will tell you now he wasted a huge portion of his life with terrorist convictions.

It might be time for you to stop looking at our recent past through rose tinted glasses and realise there was years of misery .

I'd disagree that most people are well aware or educated on this particular subject, war is terrible I agree but is necessary at times as nelson mandela once said The time comes in the life of any nation when there remains only two choices – submit or fight.

NiallBoo · 16-07-2016 1:03am

jack923 wrote: »

Mainly because of loyalist paramilitaries an outsider of the war

"war"?

Zaph · 16-07-2016 1:04am

jack923 wrote: »

Mainly because of loyalist paramilitaries an outsider of the war

Does it matter who killed them? They were innocent people who died premature violent deaths.

jack923 · 16-07-2016 1:07am

Zaph wrote: »

And yet they died in disproportionally high numbers during the Troubles. 52% of all "war related" deaths during the period were civilians. But that's OK I suppose because there's no such thing as a war where innocents don't die, as you so glibly put it.

The provos were actually the only group to kill more members of the enemy than civilians 550 civilians killed by the provos and that figure includes off duty military personnel, politicians, spies etc. So the figure is really closer to 300 an astonishing figure for the nature of their attacks.

jack923 · 16-07-2016 1:09am

Zaph wrote: »

Does it matter who killed them? They were innocent people who died premature violent deaths.

No it doesn't they were all tragedies but many people like to place all the blame on the IRA which is simply not true.

corner of hells · 16-07-2016 1:11am

jack923 wrote: »

I'd disagree that most people are well aware or educated on this particular subject, war is terrible I agree but is necessary at times as nelson mandela once said The time comes in the life of any nation when there remains only two choices – submit or fight.

You're very naive, if you believe that most people are unaware.

If anything your own awareness of peoples suffering seems very limited.

One can only imagine the agony and distress those hunger strikers and thier families went through yet you persist in seeking some way to promote violence as a glorious event .

fineso.mom · 16-07-2016 1:11am

jack923 wrote: »

I'd disagree that most people are well aware or educated on this particular subject, war is terrible I agree but is necessary at times as nelson mandela once said The time comes in the life of any nation when there remains only two choices – submit or fight.

Is that the same Nelson Mandela that you had another thread about? Saying he was and always would be a terrorist? And now you're quoting him to prove some sort of point?

corner of hells · 16-07-2016 1:13am

jack923 wrote: »

The provos were actually the only group to kill more members of the enemy than civilians 550 civilians killed by the provos and that figure includes off duty military personnel, politicians, spies etc. So the figure is really closer to 300 an astonishing figure for the nature of their attacks.

Read what you just posted.

jack923 · 16-07-2016 1:15am

corner of hells wrote: »

You're very naive, if you believe that most people are unaware.

If anything your own awareness of peoples suffering seems very limited.

One can only imagine the agony and distress those hunger strikers and thier families went through yet you persist in seeking some way to promote violence as a glorious event .

Bobby sands is an Irish hero and he's my hero too so I don't think I'm being disrespectful I think it's a great disrespect for there to not have been a street named after him.

jack923 · 16-07-2016 1:16am

corner of hells wrote: »

Read what you just posted.

I think I know what you're referring to but please clarify.

jack923 · 16-07-2016 1:17am

NiallBoo wrote: »

"war"?

Yes war.

Zaph · 16-07-2016 1:18am

jack923 wrote: »

The provos were actually the only group to kill more members of the enemy than civilians 550 civilians killed by the provos and that figure includes off duty military personnel, politicians, spies etc. So the figure is really closer to 300 an astonishing figure for the nature of their attacks.

The actual number of civilian deaths attributed to republican paramilitaries is 723. On top of that there were another 1,080 members of the security forces, so your figures are way off. And to describe 300 deaths as an astonishing number in the way you mean it is one of the most unbelievably crass things I've seen on this site in a long time.

jack923 wrote: »

No it doesn't they were all tragedies but many people like to place all the blame on the IRA which is simply not true.

Yeah, real paragons of virtue they were. They were murdering scum, just like all the other organisations, from both sides, who killed people during the Troubles. To try and paint them as anything else is complete and utter bullsh*t.

NiallBoo · 16-07-2016 1:20am

jack923 wrote: »

No it doesn't they were all tragedies but many people like to place all the blame on the IRA which is simply not true.

Can you provide a source of someone reputable claiming that all deaths during the troubles were caused by the IRA?

If someone says that the IRA were at fault, it's not the same as saying they were the only ones at fault. Of course, one group also committing atrocities doesn't make atrocities committed by the other group does any less atrocious.

As desperate of positions they might have found themselves in, you can't justify taking human life...and you certainly shouldn't try to celebrate and/or justify their mistakes in retrospect.

corner of hells · 16-07-2016 1:20am

jack923 wrote: »

I think I know what you're referring to but please clarify.

"You're impressed that that they managed to kill only 300 civilians " , that's my point.

NiallBoo · 16-07-2016 1:21am

jack923 wrote: »

Yes war.

How do you explain how that's the correct term for it?

Zaph · 16-07-2016 1:22am

jack923 wrote: »

Bobby sands is an Irish hero and he's my hero too so I don't think I'm being disrespectful I think it's a great disrespect for there to not have been a street named after him.

There's one in Tehran. Will that do?

jack923 · 16-07-2016 1:25am

Zaph wrote: »

The actual number of civilian deaths attributed to republican paramilitaries is 723. On top of that there were another 1,080 members of the security forces, so your figures are way off. And to describe 300 deaths as an astonishing number in the way you mean it is one of the most unbelievably crass things I've seen on this site in a long time.

Yeah, real paragons of virtue they were. They were murdering scum, just like all the other organisations, from both sides, who killed people during the Troubles. To try and paint them as anything else is complete and utter bullsh*t.

I was referring to the Provisional IRA the group Bobby Sands was in, I respect you're opinion but the way catholics were treated in Northern Ireland was disgusting they were treated like dogs the police force standing by as catholic houses are being burnt down the complete discrimination against catholics was horrible in my opinion the fight back was more than justified. Massacres like the springhill massacre, Ballymurphy massacre, bloody sunday were horrible it's easy to say they were murderers when you were far away from the mistreatment.

jack923 · 16-07-2016 1:27am

corner of hells wrote: »

"You're impressed that that they managed to kill only 300 civilians " , that's my point.

Yes due to the nature of attacks it showed that they took extreme care to avoid civilian casualty.

16-07-2016 1:28am

jack923 wrote: »

it's easy to say they were murderers when you were far away from the mistreatment.

I'm going to guess jack that you were far away from it also, possibly not even alive?

16-07-2016 1:29am

jack923 wrote: »

Yes due to the nature of attacks it showed that they took extreme care to avoid civilian casualty.

Yep, placing bombs on busy shopping areas in random towns in England shows extreme care to avoid civilian casualties.

jack923 · 16-07-2016 1:29am

NiallBoo wrote: »

Can you provide a source of someone reputable claiming that all deaths during the troubles were caused by the IRA?

If someone says that the IRA were at fault, it's not the same as saying they were the only ones at fault. Of course, one group also committing atrocities doesn't make atrocities committed by the other group does any less atrocious.

As desperate of positions they might have found themselves in, you can't justify taking human life...and you certainly shouldn't try to celebrate and/or justify their mistakes in retrospect.

After the dublin and monaghan bombings the Fine Gael TD went on to put the blame on the IRA! Absolutely sickening little did he know british forces orchestrated that attack for that very reason!

jack923 · 16-07-2016 1:31am

bubblypop wrote: »

Yep, placing bombs on busy shopping areas in random towns in England shows extreme care to avoid civilian casualties.

Yeah you're kind of forgetting they gave warnings like a huge truck bomb in Manchester where nobody actually died.

Zaph · 16-07-2016 1:33am

jack923 wrote: »

I was referring to the Provisional IRA the group Bobby Sands was in

Well in that case the total number of deaths that they were specifically responsible for was 1,696, including the majority of the aforementioned 723 civilian deaths caused by republicans.

16-07-2016 1:34am

jack923 wrote: »

Yeah you're kind of forgetting they gave warnings like a huge truck bomb in Manchester where nobody actually died.

Why would that matter?
They killed hundreds of civilians, why does it matter that sometimes no one got killed?

Phoebas · 16-07-2016 1:36am

Zaph wrote: »

There's one in Tehran. Will that do?

There's a burger joint named after him in Tehran too. Say what you like about the Iranians, but they do have a healthy sense of humour.

http://www.vice.com/read/bobby-sands-burgers-tehran-545

corner of hells · 16-07-2016 1:39am

jack923 wrote: »

Yes due to the nature of attacks it showed that they took extreme care to avoid civilian casualty.

Lord knows how many would be dead if they were careless.

What's three hundred civilians lives worth to you Jack ?

jack923 · 16-07-2016 1:40am

bubblypop wrote: »

Why would that matter?
They killed hundreds of civilians, why does it matter that sometimes no one got killed?

Actually the vast majority of the time civilians didn’t get killed, I hate when people say things like the Provisional IRA were indiscriminately killing people because it's simply not true even the british military acknowledged this, I can't remember the exact name of this attack but it was in a nightclub and a bomb blew up killing something like 10 soldiers and 6 civilians and initially the British public placed the blame on the Provos but a military chief came out saying it wasn't his reasoning being that they would have taken much greater measures to avoid civilian casualty so he blamed the INLA and he was right.

jack923 · 16-07-2016 1:42am

corner of hells wrote: »

Lord knows how many would be dead if they were careless.

What's three hundred civilians lives worth to you Jack ?

They had the power to kill thousands of people in a week across Britain so you could only imagine what the count would actually be.

jack923 · 16-07-2016 1:43am

Phoebas wrote: »

There's a burger joint named after him in Tehran too. Say what you like about the Iranians, but they do have a healthy sense of humour.

http://www.vice.com/read/bobby-sands-burgers-tehran-545

Fair play to Iran

Jesus. · 16-07-2016 1:45am

jack923 wrote: »

Bobby sands is an Irish hero and he's my hero too so I don't think I'm being disrespectful I think it's a great disrespect for there to not have been a street named after him.

There is..............................in Iran

Zaph · 16-07-2016 1:49am

jack923 wrote: »

They had the power to kill thousands of people in a week across Britain so you could only imagine what the count would actually be.

Well done them for their self-restraint. What's the appropriate response to that - a round of applause? Never has this guy been so appropriate. :rolleyes:

corner of hells · 16-07-2016 1:51am

jack923 wrote: »

They had the power to kill thousands of people in a week across Britain so you could only imagine what the count would actually be.

You seem proud .

Jesus. · 16-07-2016 1:52am

NiallBoo wrote: »

you can't justify taking human life

I've never before heard such claptrap. Pacifism is actually quite a sick ideology.

Zaph · 16-07-2016 1:53am

jack923 wrote: »

Actually the vast majority of the time civilians didn’t get killed, I hate when people say things like the Provisional IRA were indiscriminately killing people because it's simply not true even the british military acknowledged this, I can't remember the exact name of this attack but it was in a nightclub and a bomb blew up killing something like 10 soldiers and 6 civilians and initially the British public placed the blame on the Provos but a military chief came out saying it wasn't his reasoning being that they would have taken much greater measures to avoid civilian casualty so he blamed the INLA and he was right.

You do realise to most normal, decent people it doesn't matter a damn whether it was the IRA or the INLA or whoever the hell else was at it that were responsible for any given act of violence. Murder is murder, everything else is just details.

jack923 · 16-07-2016 1:54am

Zaph wrote: »

Well done them for their self-restraint. What's the appropriate response to that - a round of applause? Never has this guy been so appropriate. :rolleyes:

It was a reply to someone who mentioned it.

Jesus. · 16-07-2016 1:55am

Zaph wrote: »

Murder is murder.

Sure it is. That great philosopher Baroness Thatcher expounded that one.

The story of what led bobby sands to join the IRA

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