Off Topic Thread 4.0

dregin · 22-02-2019 9:47am

troyzer wrote: »

Surely you can't put a metro on tram tracks though? Thus tearing up the tram tracks and laying a metro.

In any case, it's hard to really give a **** about upgrading a Luas track somewhere else when my area is stuck with buses that are rammed after two stops.

Why not? I'm no expert on the matter, but if the gauges match and track originally built to withstand slightly more weight than a LUAS, I don't see why it'd be a problem. Electric trains are nowhere near as heavy as their diesel-driven counterparts.

Podge_irl · 22-02-2019 9:48am

troyzer wrote: »

Surely you can't put a metro on tram tracks though? Thus tearing up the tram tracks and laying a metro.

In any case, it's hard to really give a **** about upgrading a Luas track somewhere else when my area is stuck with buses that are rammed after two stops.

They were built to Metro Standard from the get go.

The whole thing is about bloody Dunville Avenue - an vital infrastructure project is being potentially cancelled because of some well connected individuals who probably have minimal need for public transport.

Podge_irl · 22-02-2019 9:49am

dregin wrote: »

Why not? I'm no expert on the matter, but if the gauge's match and track originally built to withstand slightly more weight than a LUAS, I don't see why it'd be a problem. Electric trains are nowhere near as heavy as their diesel-driven counterparts.

There would be issues with turning circles and separation. Metro would be wider and can't turn as easily. This was actually all planned in advance though and it was ensured that the same line would work just fine for a Metro.

Podge_irl · 22-02-2019 9:50am

Buer wrote: »

The biggest single lie of the whole thing is that the Green line will be closed. It will not. It will be disrupted, perhaps heavily. Perhaps sections will be unavailable at periods. But it was never proposed that it would be closed for the duration of the works. The misinformation and downright lying by the likes of Shane Ross, Jim O'Callaghan etc. on this topic has been completely shameful and they're a f*cking disgrace to call themselves public servants.

Eamon Ryan - The "Green" Party :rolleyes:

troyzer · 22-02-2019 9:55am

Podge_irl wrote: »

Eamon Ryan - The "Green" Party :rolleyes:

I recently complained to Eamon Ryan for inviting an anti gold mine group from the North to speak to the Dáil. I work in the industry and it vexed me to find that there was political support for NIMBYs. I asked him was he aware that the same group also fight wind farms.

Never got an answer. I left the Green Party years ago and it's validated every day.

Having said that, he's still better than most.

Zzippy · 22-02-2019 10:12am

troyzer wrote: »

I recently complained to Eamon Ryan for inviting an anti gold mine group from the North to speak to the Dáil. I work in the industry and it vexed me to find that there was political support for NIMBYs. I asked him was he aware that the same group also fight wind farms.

Never got an answer. I left the Green Party years ago and it's validated every day.

Having said that, he's still better than most.

Perhaps this is a mirror of your ignorance about the metro upgrade, but I've heard some pretty bad things about gold mining in terms of its effect on water quality, chemicals used in extraction etc. It's certainly not an environmentally friendly industry anyway. Why would the Green Party be in favour of it?

troyzer · 22-02-2019 10:20am

Zzippy wrote: »

Perhaps this is a mirror of your ignorance about the metro upgrade, but I've heard some pretty bad things about gold mining in terms of its effect on water quality, chemicals used in extraction etc. It's certainly not an environmentally friendly industry anyway. Why would the Green Party be in favour of it?

Gold mining is not something I'm ignorant about. Like I said, it's one of the industries I work in.

Opposition to mining is certainly seen as a default Green option but it's a source of immense frustration to me. Where do you think all of these high tech metals come from that we use for green tech? Neodymium is a Rare Earth Element which is critical for high field strength magnets like the ones used in consumer electronics and more importantly: wind turbines. Nearly the entire global supply comes from an absolutely filthy mine in China which has no environmental standards. But apparently it's preferable to environmentalists for it to be mined over there and shipped here.

That's just one example, there are literally dozens.

Until someone is willing to boycott gold (which is impossible if you want to live in 2019) then it's just NIMBYism.

Of course there are concerns, but not all mines are the same.

In any case, he was so quick to attach himself to their cause that he never bothered to check their background. If he had he'd realise it's the same crowd that oppose wind turbines, carbon taxes and are in favour of beef farming. Not exactly green friendly.

irishbucsfan · 22-02-2019 10:22am

dregin wrote: »

How's it with a baby? I've done London countless times myself, but this will be a first with kid on board.

How much luggage can your baby carry?

Podge_irl · 22-02-2019 10:23am

troyzer wrote: »

Gold mining is not something I'm ignorant about. Like I said, it's one of the industries I work in.

He is suggesting he is potentially ignorant, not you

I imagine no mining is completely environmentally friendly. But then almost nothing is in complete isolation and it needs a measured approach.

troyzer · 22-02-2019 10:26am

Podge_irl wrote: »

He is suggesting he is potentially ignorant, not you

I imagine no mining is completely environmentally friendly. But then almost nothing is in complete isolation and it needs a measured approach.

Ah yes, apologies.

Well, as the saying goes "If you can't grow it, you have to mine it".

Mining CAN be incredibly unenvironmentally friendly. But this is often in developing countries where laws are lax. It often isn't the case in developed countries with strong laws.

The paradox of course being that developed countries with strong laws are much more likely to defeat the construction of a mine because of how many NIMBYs there are.

If it was all about environmental concerns, we should be welcoming mines.

thomond2006 · 22-02-2019 10:28am

For London, fly to London City Airport. It can be expensive but if it's only €20 or so more expensive it's worth it. You're off the plane and into a DLR train out of there really quickly. If flying at the weekend the planes can very quiet, I had two seats to myself on a BA flight on a Sunday.

Bazzo · 22-02-2019 10:36am

thomond2006 wrote: »

For London, fly to London City Airport. It can be expensive but if it's only €20 or so more expensive it's worth it. You're off the plane and into a DLR train out of there really quickly. If flying at the weekend the planes can very quiet, I had two seats to myself on a BA flight on a Sunday.

Genuinely did not know this airport existed...

Podge_irl · 22-02-2019 10:36am

thomond2006 wrote: »

For London, fly to London City Airport. It can be expensive but if it's only €20 or so more expensive it's worth it. You're off the plane and into a DLR train out of there really quickly. If flying at the weekend the planes can very quiet, I had two seats to myself on a BA flight on a Sunday.

Depends where you are going in London though. Going to NW10 then LHR and train to Paddington is definitely going to be the easiest.

In contrast though, during the week LCY can be pretty manic.

Edit: mind you sitting on the Jubilee Line for ages wouldn't be the worst thing in the world either so LCY could still work.

Zzippy · 22-02-2019 10:37am

troyzer wrote: »

Ah yes, apologies.

Well, as the saying goes "If you can't grow it, you have to mine it".

Mining CAN be incredibly unenvironmentally friendly. But this is often in developing countries where laws are lax. It often isn't the case in developed countries with strong laws.

The paradox of course being that developed countries with strong laws are much more likely to defeat the construction of a mine because of how many NIMBYs there are.

If it was all about environmental concerns, we should be welcoming mines.

Yes, I was referring to my own ignorance. I am aware of the environmental implications of lots of developments, and find the NIMBY tag a lazy and dismissive attitude - many people have legitimate concerns about their environment, many companies would like to ignore the environment to make money. There is a happy medium somewhere, but just dismissing objectors as NIMBYs is a tactic of industry to de-legitimise legitimate concerns. Our current government have demonstrated a disregard and disdain for the environment that borders on criminal, and are fond of the NIMBY tactic too. In my own experience (fighting a government agency trying to put a mega salmon farm in Galway Bay), using the NIMBY tactic is just another form of "attacking the poster, not the post" - usually the people using it cannot debate the topic or defend their operation so resort to smears and innuendos about the motives of their detractors.

irishbucsfan · 22-02-2019 10:38am

Yeah, entirely depends where you’re ending up. If you’re going central then LHR -> Paddington is just as easy.

thomond2006 · 22-02-2019 10:47am

Fair enough!

Rigor Mortis · 22-02-2019 10:48am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah, entirely depends where you’re ending up. If you’re going central then LHR -> Paddington is just as easy.

Yeah but city is nicer and less hassle with security. Throw in the price of the heathrow express and there is rarely much of a difference.

I'm pretty sure that the particular place in hell that was reserved for Brexiteers may well be Heathrow.

stephen_n · 22-02-2019 10:51am

Zzippy wrote: »

Yes, I was referring to my own ignorance. I am aware of the environmental implications of lots of developments, and find the NIMBY tag a lazy and dismissive attitude - many people have legitimate concerns about their environment, many companies would like to ignore the environment to make money. There is a happy medium somewhere, but just dismissing objectors as NIMBYs is a tactic of industry to de-legitimise legitimate concerns. Our current government have demonstrated a disregard and disdain for the environment that borders on criminal, and are fond of the NIMBY tactic too. In my own experience (fighting a government agency trying to put a mega salmon farm in Galway Bay), using the NIMBY tactic is just another form of "attacking the poster, not the post" - usually the people using it cannot debate the topic or defend their operation so resort to smears and innuendos about the motives of their detractors.

What is the environmental downside to the Salmon farm, out of curiosity?

troyzer · 22-02-2019 10:51am

Zzippy wrote: »

Yes, I was referring to my own ignorance. I am aware of the environmental implications of lots of developments, and find the NIMBY tag a lazy and dismissive attitude - many people have legitimate concerns about their environment, many companies would like to ignore the environment to make money. There is a happy medium somewhere, but just dismissing objectors as NIMBYs is a tactic of industry to de-legitimise legitimate concerns. Our current government have demonstrated a disregard and disdain for the environment that borders on criminal, and are fond of the NIMBY tactic too. In my own experience (fighting a government agency trying to put a mega salmon farm in Galway Bay), using the NIMBY tactic is just another form of "attacking the poster, not the post" - usually the people using it cannot debate the topic or defend their operation so resort to smears and innuendos about the motives of their detractors.

I agree that NIMBY is often lazily used but I think it's accurate in this case. The locals from the very beginning made it their life's work to oppose the project before a mine had even be proposed. They were blacklisting locals who worked with the company and calling them traitors when it was just a few rigs.

So the idea that they had legitimate concerns which could be worked out in the planning process isn't the case here. They simply didn't want the mine, end of story and no amount of consultation, planning discussions etc would have been enough for them. It got to the point where they started making stuff up to convince other locals to oppose it after the planning application was released and shown to not be that bad.

Squidgy Black · 22-02-2019 11:01am

stephen_n wrote: »

What is the environmental downside to the Salmon farm, out of curiosity?

I know sea lice and other diseases are some of the main concerns that tends to be thrown around, and pollution from the concentration of fish sh1te in one small area as well as chemicals used etc.

Podge_irl · 22-02-2019 11:07am

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Yeah but city is nicer and less hassle with security. Throw in the price of the heathrow express and there is rarely much of a difference.

I'm pretty sure that the particular place in hell that was reserved for Brexiteers may well be Heathrow.

The Heathrow Connect takes about 10 minutes longer and is about a quarter the price. I hate being airside in LCY on weekday evenings - it is manic busy and can't really handle it.

mfceiling · 22-02-2019 11:13am

dregin wrote: »

Anyone flown Dublin - London with an infant?

Didn't realise how far the airports are out of the city. Taxis are pricey and not sure about public transport with a 5 month old.

I really, really want to fly into Heathrow and just tube it, but the other half has different ideas.

Yep was that soldier. Public transport is grand outside of peak hours. People in general are fairly helpful when they see you with a baby. Cheap stroller picked up from adverts means you don't have to worry about wrecking it when you're there or it getting damaged on the plane. Women will panic about the tube and a baby but in reality it's a piece of p*ss.

Zzippy · 22-02-2019 11:14am

stephen_n wrote: »

What is the environmental downside to the Salmon farm, out of curiosity?

Where to start!

No. 1 would be the impact on wild salmon and sea trout. Salmon farms are breeding factories for a parasite (sea lice) that produce billions of larvae that then infect wild fish within a radius of 20km or so. Enough sea lice on a young sea trout or salmon will kill it in weeks. Sea trout stocks in Connemara collapsed in 3 years following the introduction of salmon farms.

No. 2 would be escaped farmed fish inter-breeding with wild salmon - the farmed fish are from a Norwegian strain bred for fast growth and late maturation. Wild fish in each river are genetically distinct and have evolved to survive best in that river. Dilution of the gene pool reduces genetic fitness and leads to an extinction vortex.

No. 3 would be pollution - a single salmon farm can produce the same waste as a large town. Of course in a large town you have a sewage treatment plant. Salmon farmers just let the **** drift away and pay nothing for waste management. (It doesn't really drift away, it sinks to the bottom and pollutes our bays).

There are many more I haven't the time to get into. Basically - a farm that size in Galway Bay would have eventually wiped out wild salmon in every river in the bay, and probably a lot further afield too. The agency (BIM) responsible were also extremely underhanded with how they did things. Their failed project cost over €500,000 for just the planning stage, of which over €250,000 was spent on legal fees and €143,000 on PR advice from a PR firm. They spent €12,000 on the actual environmental research and EIS.

Buer · 22-02-2019 11:19am

But how did they taste?

Buer · 22-02-2019 11:28am

Good summation of the whole Metrolink fiasco:

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1098725070137114624

dregin · 22-02-2019 11:30am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

How much luggage can your baby carry?

I've her benching 1KG atm, hope to have her up. to ~5 by flight time.

stephen_n · 22-02-2019 11:47am

Zzippy wrote: »

Where to start!

No. 1 would be the impact on wild salmon and sea trout. Salmon farms are breeding factories for a parasite (sea lice) that produce billions of larvae that then infect wild fish within a radius of 20km or so. Enough sea lice on a young sea trout or salmon will kill it in weeks. Sea trout stocks in Connemara collapsed in 3 years following the introduction of salmon farms.

No. 2 would be escaped farmed fish inter-breeding with wild salmon - the farmed fish are from a Norwegian strain bred for fast growth and late maturation. Wild fish in each river are genetically distinct and have evolved to survive best in that river. Dilution of the gene pool reduces genetic fitness and leads to an extinction vortex.

No. 3 would be pollution - a single salmon farm can produce the same waste as a large town. Of course in a large town you have a sewage treatment plant. Salmon farmers just let the **** drift away and pay nothing for waste management. (It doesn't really drift away, it sinks to the bottom and pollutes our bays).

There are many more I haven't the time to get into. Basically - a farm that size in Galway Bay would have eventually wiped out wild salmon in every river in the bay, and probably a lot further afield too. The agency (BIM) responsible were also extremely underhanded with how they did things. Their failed project cost over €500,000 for just the planning stage, of which over €250,000 was spent on legal fees and €143,000 on PR advice from a PR firm. They spent €12,000 on the actual environmental research and EIS.

Wow knew they were bad for the local fish but didn’t realize the full extent of it.

Buer wrote: »

But how did they taste?

Nowhere near as nice!

troyzer · 22-02-2019 11:49am

Zzippy wrote: »

Where to start!

No. 1 would be the impact on wild salmon and sea trout. Salmon farms are breeding factories for a parasite (sea lice) that produce billions of larvae that then infect wild fish within a radius of 20km or so. Enough sea lice on a young sea trout or salmon will kill it in weeks. Sea trout stocks in Connemara collapsed in 3 years following the introduction of salmon farms.

No. 2 would be escaped farmed fish inter-breeding with wild salmon - the farmed fish are from a Norwegian strain bred for fast growth and late maturation. Wild fish in each river are genetically distinct and have evolved to survive best in that river. Dilution of the gene pool reduces genetic fitness and leads to an extinction vortex.

No. 3 would be pollution - a single salmon farm can produce the same waste as a large town. Of course in a large town you have a sewage treatment plant. Salmon farmers just let the **** drift away and pay nothing for waste management. (It doesn't really drift away, it sinks to the bottom and pollutes our bays).

There are many more I haven't the time to get into. Basically - a farm that size in Galway Bay would have eventually wiped out wild salmon in every river in the bay, and probably a lot further afield too. The agency (BIM) responsible were also extremely underhanded with how they did things. Their failed project cost over €500,000 for just the planning stage, of which over €250,000 was spent on legal fees and €143,000 on PR advice from a PR firm. They spent €12,000 on the actual environmental research and EIS.

Whatever about the rest of it but this is not how evolution works. ^

Squidgy Black · 22-02-2019 11:54am

troyzer wrote: »

Whatever about the rest of it but this is not how evolution works. ^

Well no, there's been plenty of studies that show that farmed salmon are in fact genetically weaker than their wild counterparts. And because they're bred in captivity, inbreeding is common because they don't follow the typical spawning runs of wild salmon. It's also a serious concern that if farmed salmon escape they can destroy the genetic pool within streams of wild salmon.

troyzer · 22-02-2019 11:56am

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Well no, there's been plenty of studies that show that farmed salmon are in fact genetically weaker than their wild counterparts. And because they're bred in captivity, inbreeding is common because they don't follow the typical spawning runs of wild salmon. It's also a serious concern that if farmed salmon escape they can destroy the genetic pool within streams of wild salmon.

They can certainly contaminate the wild population but they can't drive them to extinction via cross breeding. That's not how it works.

Any farmed breed be it fish, cow or crop are genetically inferior to the wild population.

I have no dog in this fight, I can be convinced either way. But it seems to me that Zippy is against fish farming in general as an industry.

thomond2006 · 22-02-2019 11:59am

I'm hungry.

dregin · 22-02-2019 12:00pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'm hungry.

Had a pot of mussels from Matt The Thrashers for lunch yesterday. Heartily recommend.

Squidgy Black · 22-02-2019 12:02pm

I hate salmon anyways it's manky.

irishbucsfan · 22-02-2019 12:02pm

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Yeah but city is nicer and less hassle with security. Throw in the price of the heathrow express and there is rarely much of a difference.

I'm pretty sure that the particular place in hell that was reserved for Brexiteers may well be Heathrow.

Don’t even go through security when flying from Dublin into Heathrow...

I know it off by now. Get off the plane, go through that little connections bit, down the little raised corridor, down the escalator straight into baggage reclaim and out the door.

The other way is different, but again at T5 it’s pretty straightforward with the two different checkpoints, one or the other is normally quiet.

swiwi_ · 22-02-2019 12:04pm

troyzer wrote: »

I recently complained to Eamon Ryan for inviting an anti gold mine group from the North to speak to the Dáil. I work in the industry and it vexed me to find that there was political support for NIMBYs. I asked him was he aware that the same group also fight wind farms.

Never got an answer. I left the Green Party years ago and it's validated every day.

Having said that, he's still better than most.

Reminds of the time Eamonn Ryan wasn’t looking where he was going and knocked me off my Dublin rent a bike.

“And to think you’re the TD that promoted these things » I shouted. To my satisfaction he did look a bit chagrined.

troyzer · 22-02-2019 12:05pm

swiwi_ wrote: »

Reminds of the time Eamonn Ryan wasn’t looking where he was going and knocked me off my Dublin rent a bike.

“And to think you’re the TD that promoted these things » I shouted. To my satisfaction he did look a bit chagrined.

Was he driving?

Did this actually happen?

thomond2006 · 22-02-2019 12:05pm

dregin wrote: »

Had a pot of mussels from Matt The Thrashers for lunch yesterday. Heartily recommend.

I'm not really a fan of fish, outside of salmon which I love.

stephen_n · 22-02-2019 12:08pm

dregin wrote: »

Had a pot of mussels from Matt The Thrashers for lunch yesterday. Heartily recommend.

Call them by their proper name, sea tampons.

stephen_n · 22-02-2019 12:10pm

swiwi_ wrote: »

Reminds of the time Eamonn Ryan wasn’t looking where he was going and knocked me off my Dublin rent a bike.

“And to think you’re the TD that promoted these things » I shouted. To my satisfaction he did look a bit chagrined.

Did Venjur hijack your account?

swiwi_ · 22-02-2019 12:21pm

troyzer wrote: »

Was he driving?

Did this actually happen?

It’s a while back now. From memory he was walking but just charged straight out into my path even though the little man at the signal crossing was still red. It wasn’t the most heinous of crimes.

22-02-2019 12:29pm

I don't want the Luas to be out of action for four years

Synode · 22-02-2019 12:35pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't want the Luas to be out of action for four years

It won't be

Podge_irl · 22-02-2019 1:21pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't want the Luas to be out of action for four years

It was never going to be.

A section of it would have been out of action for somewhere between 6 months and 2 years. And now instead it will become useless along most of the line in perpetuity due to lack of capacity.

b.gud · 22-02-2019 1:39pm

Might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb https://www.thejournal.ie/gardai-drink-driving-4507169-Feb2019/?utm_source=twitter_short

22-02-2019 3:25pm

My statement still stands

Dave_The_Sheep · 22-02-2019 3:30pm

b.gud wrote: »

Might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb https://www.thejournal.ie/gardai-drink-driving-4507169-Feb2019/?utm_source=twitter_short

Odd the "article" doesn't actually mention if he was over the limit, or what he was charged with.

Buer · 22-02-2019 3:32pm

b.gud wrote: »

Might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb https://www.thejournal.ie/gardai-drink-driving-4507169-Feb2019/?utm_source=twitter_short

Celebrating the Euromillions win by the looks of the location.

troyzer · 22-02-2019 3:32pm

Lads just getting back to this Metro thing.

They do have a bit of a point regarding Dunville avenue. It seems to be the only crossing point across the current track from Charleston road down to Milltown road. That's a decent 3km.

Buer · 22-02-2019 3:47pm

troyzer wrote: »

Lads just getting back to this Metro thing.

They do have a bit of a point regarding Dunville avenue. It seems to be the only crossing point across the current track from Charleston road down to Milltown road. That's a decent 3km.

A €3bn project that will serve hundreds of thousands for generations will be thrown in the bin because one road and its inhabitants will be discommoded for a portion of the project?

It's f*cking bonkers.

Podge_irl · 22-02-2019 3:49pm

troyzer wrote: »

Lads just getting back to this Metro thing.

They do have a bit of a point regarding Dunville avenue. It seems to be the only crossing point across the current track from Charleston road down to Milltown road. That's a decent 3km.

It will be open to pedestrians in some manner. Anyway, the only real relevant distance is the distance to Charleston Road which is quite a bit less than 1km. The "community" they are so desperate to maintain without the "Berlin Wall" of the metro will do just fine - communities are based on walking and you can still do that. A community is not defined by the ability to drive through somewhere.

Off Topic Thread 4.0

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