All Ireland League 2019-2020 Talk/Gossip/Rumours

Who's to say a Leinster academy player wouldn't play every single game for UCD.

As above, if he doesn't back himself to play in Div 1 or Leinster don't, he has no business in academy.

It just doesn't make sense. Then why not Barnhall in 2A or Greystones in 2B.

Never mind a Wesley etc.

Can't see Leinster going, we would rather see you skin tries past wanderers in a lower level than play higger up v better opposition

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

And players who're not that can still get assistance beyond that. Maybe it isnt the player who also looked for the move.

He'll likely play far more AIL with rock than he would in a higher division club. Not everyone has to or should be in a 1A club immediately simply because theyre in the academy.

He was actually pushed to go to Rock by Leinster academy because they are putting him into a house and the academy want to make sure he is looked after.
He is also going into the sevens program so between that and A games he probably won't see too much AIL. Daft situation where Leinster are actually encouraging players and clubs to flout Regulation 6.

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Ad Astra only provides 10 scholarships a year to rugby as far as I'm aware, I'm not sure all of the academy lads are on it, there might be a separate agreement in place with the academy and UCD, as the likes of Conor O'Brien studied economics in UCD but played with Clontarf, Cormac Daly the same.

UCD offer way more scholarships than 10 a year but I doubt they offer 10 Ad Astras

Squidgy Black wrote: »

From the UCD Ad Astra Academy site:

There are currently 60 UCD Ad Astra Elite Sports Scholars in a range of sports, including 10 male Rugby players (4 are currently representing Ireland) and 1 female member of the Irish squad

Sorry I mean't per year - my main point is there are loads of other scholarships UCD offer their rugby players as well

Gatekeeper23 wrote: »

Any truth in Eddie Weaver leaving Belvo to join Lansdowne? Serious coup if true!

Not that I'm aware of.

Stainalert wrote: »

Not that I'm aware of.

Heard it from a source within the club itself, wasn't sure if it was true or not. If anyone hears of any updates, do keep us posted!

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Getting guys to play as high level possible should be the aim and sub academy players should be involved in AIL(be it division 2 or 1) and even should be on loan from a division 2 club not fielding at 20s and play 20s with a division 1 club and AIL with a division 2 club if possible.

Disagree strongly re sub academy players. For a lot of them they are much better off playing 20's rather than being pushed too high too fast.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Nonsense about issues with fielding team but bound to have the Dublin city clubs looking at some players considering how well they did last few seasons/

Would be a shame to not see them kick on after a couple of great seasons, will struggle losing players of Farrell's calibre and failing to recruit suitable replacements.

Gatekeeper23 wrote: »

Stainalert wrote: »

Too high too fast? These men have to step up to the plate, they have to learn. No point saying otherwise

Not for sub academy - academy is different. We don't always have to look at the AIL with professional goggles. The vast majority of these players will never play Pro and quite often when they don't make academy / Irish U20s they walk away from rugby entirely which is a really bad outcome for all concerned.

Stainalert wrote: »

Gatekeeper23 wrote: »

Not for sub academy - academy is different. We don't always have to look at the AIL with professional goggles. The vast majority of these players will never play Pro and quite often when they don't make academy / Irish U20s they walk away from rugby entirely which is a really bad outcome for all concerned.

Sub academy players are 19 coming out of school why shouldn’t they play ail, name a 19 year old who’s gone on to play for Irish 20s that hasn’t played ail, the ones playing ail are the ones who make the academy.. lots of 18,19 year olds playing ail that aren’t in sub academy’s that are good club players.. there’s no reason as to why a sub academy player coming out school should settle for taking a step down in quality of rugby to play u20

UpTipp123 wrote: »

Dont see this happening - Navan in 1B now also, same league as belvo, unless money has swung it for him, but it would be great to see Navan hold onto where own an see how they go in 1B. Anyone know how there fixed next season? Heard Haugh the 9 is leaving?

Extremely possible given the talent pool that Navan has and the money that Belvo have available at their disposal. Shame.

Haven't heard of Haugh leaving yet as i'm led to believe he has enjoyed his time there thus far? Could be wrong thouugh

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Ironic as Navan would be one of the big spenders in the AIL they pay large for players and continuously offer large sums to players. Heard of a huge offer they have made to a forward returning from England which a few clubs were asked to match but out of their league

Very interesting! Who is the player?

Has anyone heard anything about Tadgh McElroy - Heard he was coming back to Ireland from Bedford?

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Ironic as Navan would be one of the big spenders in the AIL they pay large for players and continuously offer large sums to players. Heard of a huge offer they have made to a forward returning from England which a few clubs were asked to match but out of their league

Fairly sure their entire team is homegrown bar 2/3 players?

UpTipp123 wrote: »

big signign for any AIL club - is he back with lansdowne? Also heard Lansdowne signed back a second row who was in the UK - any idea?

Not back with Lansdowne anyhow. Will check re 2nd row

Tom Hayes gone to UL Bohs from Shannon

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

20s League isnt as monitored for good reason...
The AIL division 2 isnt as regarded by some but quality is still considerable and playing that would be far better than playing 20s and would challenge 18/19 year olds far more than playing within their own age group.
Cutting a divison maybe should happen but not really a major problem if there's 40 or 50 senior teams. 20s shouldnt have to be a requirement for a club to be successful. Look at Ulster clubs who by and large field more teams than most and never really field 20s.
20s grade at club level can be great but having 20s only played for shorter period of season and then players merge into adult teams would be far better overall for the sport.
Players should be playing senior rugby as much as possible and going to the top senior clubs doesnt help that especially some of the division 1 clubs who harvest 20s players and that leads to so many 19/20 year olds dropping out at that age. Having some/many of them playing AIL division 2 would be much better than that.
I

I'd rather play 20s in a club in 1A then go down and play 2ABC with none of my mates in worse playing conditions. The standard of JP Fanagan Prem is exceptional and is the breeding ground for star players of the future, BEFORE they play Senior rugby. I guarantee you that just shuffling these lads down to 2nd rate rugby will turn more lads off then 20s and drop out like you say.

New forwards and backs coaches going into Terenure.

Forwards coach coming from Malahide I think.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Get more to go to a wider range of clubs. It isnt better for sport long term if we have so many of top players going to the small number of clubs in 1A rather than far more clubs across the divisions.
The standard of 20s premier division isnt exceptional. Its good but you're putting far too much on it. And AIL division 2 isnt 2nd rate and wouldnt at all turn more people off.

You're completely ignoring the point being made, people want to play with their mates

It isnt watched enough as standard isnt simply as high as some here are making it out to be.

In your, not very accurate, opinion.

Technically division 2A at least is certainly better and 20s fanagan league/munster league isnt more technical

I don't know about the munster league in general but from my experience of division 2 rugby and JP Fanagan rugby the JP has a higher ball in play time, quicker rucks and a more expansive game. These are the things developing players should be exposed to.

I very much am. 20s league is being very overhyped. Its good standard but has major issues with a tiny number of clubs with far too many players dominating it. That isnt good for the sport

And what major issues would that be?

Their system is very good though. Major issues in north are kids leaving the province to go to university elsewhere.

That's a really over exaggerated occurrence, many many players in Ulster don't go away for university but just sink when thrown into the sink or swim senior rugby.

How wouldnt it work? Play 20s to maybe christmas and then have players fold into AIL and/or J1/2/3s in the club. Guys can pick the level they feel is most appropriate. If they wish to play with their mates they stay at that level.

It wouldn't work because say a club has down to J3s, then you have 5 squads worth of players and you're saying mix them into 4 squads post Christmas. Even if you assume the U20 players are spread evenly through the teams that's everyones playing time reduced and will lead to players dropping away. Then come the next season half of those U20s are being pulled out again for U20s. Just doesn't work any way you look at it.

No it isnt.

It really is, it's very outdated.

Not at all. So whats your solution then to challenging player drop out rate. Trinity/UCD and other clubs with 50/60 under 20s is great for how long but surely it would be better with wider spread of these players and you get them playing the sport far longer.

What other club has 50/60 U20s players? Those two have that many because people want to play for their college, maybe they're up from the country and away from their local club, there are tonnes of reasons why colleges will have lots of players and that's not going to change and nor should it.

The system despite what you say is quite good and everything you suggest goes in completely the wrong direction from a player development point. U20s should be used to bring schools players into clubs and mix them with current club players. At 20s players learn the clubs style, get used to the atmosphere of the place then as they perform in 20s the cream of the crop can be called up to the AIL team, on off weeks and when returning from injuries and such everyone filters out to other teams in the club at their rough playing level and gets to know the players on those teams then when they get too old for 20s they're not joining a new team that they know nobody on which is important for social rugby players which below J1s is what they are.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

And they still can. And how many guys from same school will end up in the same few clubs?

As apposed to who?

Its quicker but how much exposure do players need for that. The level of top quality j1(metro 1/2 at least) will be similar enough from my experience

Far too many players in those clubs. Not getting enough game time. If you want to have 20s players play together by all teams do so but in adult competitions after christmas. Nothing stopping clubs having under 20 players playing on same team so they dont miss out playing with their friends

It isnt that over exaggerated and many dont sink. They find a far more appropriate level to play be it 2nds, 3rds, 4ths.

It has worked before. 20s players should be involved in 1sts or whatever teams their level is suited to. Clubs should be doing that rather than having 20s as stand alone teams.
It would work You wouldnt have to be mixing them into less squads and there is always cups/other leagues that teams can be played in.

And 20s still can be used to integrate schools players into clubs but not for the entire season. You have to look to the medium and long term and that is helping get these guys integrated into the junior set up within a club and the 2nds-5ths where appropriate.
Yes 20s can be used to learn clubs style where possible. Never said it cant. It just needs far more integration with the rest of the club

No they can't if you're telling players they have to play senior rugby they get spreat out and eventually fall out of love with the game quicker if they don't "make it" because they're playing for a club they've no connection with, at a lower level, with strangers. Actually most players from a school will go to the same couple of clubs. If you ignore the colleges for obvious reasons, then Terenure and Mary's graduates are obvious, Michaels will probably go to Lansdowne with Gonzaga, Belvedere will go Tarf, Clongowes is a bit different with the boarding aspect but a lot seem to go to Belvo, you see clumps of schools at clubs u20s teams.

People who aren't obviously biased against u20s for whatever reason.

A lot, that's probably the most important aspect of modern rugby being able to do everything quickly, read the game quickly, think quickly, execute quickly.

The guy that wants to merge squads after Christmas is going on about lack of game time.
So you want leagues to accept new teams half way through a season? Are you serious

Players that should kick on playing down the teams is sinking. These players are on par with other provincial sides through the age grades but after it there's a huge gap in quality.

Claims thinking isn't archaic, says they want to use the system that was used decades ago because it worked then.
You're still talking about players playing less games just to suit this weird dislike you have of u20s rugby for whatever reason.

There is lots of integration as is just some clubs do it better than others, that's the clubs fault not the systems