If the world goes completely vegan

jaxxx · 21-11-2020 8:25pm #1

[skip to 4th paragraph if you want to get straight to the point of this thread]

Hello all. First off, I ain't vegan/vegetarian so let's get that outta the way swiftly. There's one thing which I've never seen being discussed, and something I'd love to get an overview on what vegans think about it. I have a huge respect for animals and the natural world, even though yes I'm a meat eater, though not a huge meat eater to be perfectly honest. Anyways I'm not here to discuss that.

Please don't take this as any attack on veganism or anything of the sort. I've seen plenty of people attacking veganism, I even read recently some idiots referring to it as a religion. My head is still sore from how hard I facepalmed myself after reading that drivel. I'm genuinely interested in all your opinions on this.

Let's say tomorrow the entire world goes vegan, just like that. Would it be a good thing if that happened? Honestly, I think it would. God knows we've been doing enough damage to the planet for millennia now, including countless harm towards animals, plants and so on. But the thing I have never seeing being discussed is this:

What happens to all the farm animals? Cows, pigs, chickens, and all the rest. They can't be released into the wild, they're no longer part of the wild ecosystem much like ourselves. If they were released into the wild, in my opinion we'd only be causing even more damage to wildlife. There would be much more pressure on natural food sources for herbivores. If you take cows, pigs and sheep, there are no predators here to control their populations. Young piglets and lambs would be susceptible to birds of prey alright, but adults? The largest terrestrial predator we have is the badger and I'm no wildlife expert but badgers surely wouldn't be able to take down adults, cows especially? There were calls there not too long ago for wolves to be reintroduced into Ireland. I actually think this should be done, absolutely.

If we don't release them into the wild, what then? Cull them all? I don't think anyone wants that. But we cannot release them into the wild, as I said before they haven't been part of the natural ecosystem in centuries. What becomes of them all then? I'm genuinely interested in what anyone has to say about this. I know it's a bit weird, going from humans killing farm animals to how they would be killed in the wild. But we've been playing god for far too long, and have caused untold damage to our planet. Look at the amount of damage that has been caused to the Amazon rainforest because of farming. When I was in school, it was said that there was like 40 football fields worth of forest lost every day. Is it the same today? All this because of farming.

I love animals, I do. And I know that sounds hypocritical seeing as how I eat meat. But I look beyond that, I look at the wider effects on the planet, or I try my best to at least. If the world went completely vegan, what does become of all these farm animals?I really would love to know everyone's opinions on this. Thank you.

21-11-2020 10:00pm

‘Let’s say tomorrow the whole world goes vegan’

I’ll save a lot of time here.

It won’t.

The whole world won’t go vegan tomorrow.

There’s your answer.

jaxxx · 21-11-2020 10:17pm

Thank you for being completely unhelpful. Can you not deal with hypothetical scenarios or did you get out of the wrong side of the bed? Please enlighten me as to how your so-called 'answer' answers what happens to farm animals if the whole world becomes vegan? The time period is irrelevant, whether tomorrow or 10 years. Please don't make a mockery of a genuine question.

eviltwin · 21-11-2020 10:20pm

Not really interested in what other people do. Vegetarian and vegans don’t care about what other people eat half as much people think we do. It’s not the responsibility of vegans to solve the issue of farming. Maybe you should ask the people who actually have the animals what they would do.

eviltwin · 21-11-2020 10:23pm

frag420 wrote: »

I’m vegan intolerant...

So why are you here ?

21-11-2020 10:28pm

jaxxx wrote: »

Thank you for being completely unhelpful. Can you not deal with hypothetical scenarios or did you get out of the wrong side of the bed? Please enlighten me as to how your so-called 'answer' answers what happens to farm animals if the whole world becomes vegan? The time period is irrelevant, whether tomorrow or 10 years. Please don't make a mockery of a genuine question.

You say you love animals.

Then stop paying people to kill them on your behalf.

jaxxx · 21-11-2020 10:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You say you love animals.

Then stop paying people to kill them on your behalf.

Again, not even close to addressing the actual point of this thread. Why are you even here if you're not gonna give a serious answer or have an actual discussion?

Unearthly · 21-11-2020 10:39pm

well it's very hypothetical and most people would have their biases about what would happen.

Logically it would not happen in just 1 night, so the idea of a massive cull of animals would not be needed as supply and demand would gradually decrease at the same rate and the farmed animals would reduce at significant amounts naturally.

Would they go extinct? Definitely not in my opinion as there are so many groups out there that wouldn't allow that to happen so I reckon there'd be sanctuaries where animals can live out a life that doesn't end in slaughter.

In terms of health I'm not sure we'd see a change there. A whole foods diet would make the world much healthier but if the entire world went vegan, then you'd have fast food types of every meat equalivent. Some people would live entirely on that.

Environmentally the world would improve. Too much science out there to say it wouldn't.

Ten of Swords · 21-11-2020 10:40pm

frag420 your posts have been deleted as they added nothing to the discussion and were just baiting others, do not post in this thread again

jaxxx you are getting engagement on your question. It appears to me that you are not getting the responses you want

greysides · 21-11-2020 10:49pm

If there were a gradual changeover where farm animals were not needed for food then numbers of animals on farms would gradually decline in response to market forces. Most animals reared for meat have relatively short lives so it wouldn't take long for their numbers to decrease once no more were being breed. Cows live longer, as they are productive for longer, and so would numbers would drop more slowly; though a lot would probably be culled earlier than otherwise as they need to 'earn their living' and it wouldn't be economically possible to keep them on if they didn't. Some might live on as pets of a sort. Also, if land use was changing over to arable then there wouldn't be food/grass available for them and they couldn't be allowed starve. Horses, kept for sports activities would probably escape the cull. The farm dog would be mindlessly bored and dizzy from chasing it's tail. The farm cat would have to do without it's milk and go hunt mice and rats instead.

The people who like to drive through the countryside or live in the countryside might get a bit upset. Driving through some of the intensive cereal producing areas of England is very boring. Animals in fields add in variation and the features that go with them add interest and beauty. There would be a dearth of lush green fields of grass and winding lanes of hedgerows with a variety of tree species. In a way, wild-life would suffer too as the reduction in variety of habitats affected their diversity too.

jaxxx · 21-11-2020 11:07pm

Unearthly wrote: »

well it's very hypothetical and most people would have their biases about what would happen.

Logically it would not happen in just 1 night, so the idea of a massive cull of animals would not be needed as supply and demand would gradually decrease at the same rate and the farmed animals would reduce at significant amounts naturally.

Would they go extinct? Definitely not in my opinion as there are so many groups out there that wouldn't allow that to happen so I reckon there'd be sanctuaries where animals can live out a life that doesn't end in slaughter.

In terms of health I'm not sure we'd see a change there. A whole foods diet would make the world much healthier but if the entire world went vegan, then you'd have fast food types of every meat equalivent. Some people would live entirely on that.

Environmentally the world would improve. Too much science out there to say it wouldn't.

A sanctuary as a protected species? Yes I'd never considered that actually. I agree, I think the world would improve from an environmental perspective.

greysides wrote: »

If there were a gradual changeover where farm animals were not needed for food then numbers of animals on farms would gradually decline in response to market forces. Most animals reared for meat have relatively short lives so it wouldn't take long for their numbers to decrease once no more were being breed. Cows live longer, as they are productive for longer, and so would numbers would drop more slowly; though a lot would probably be culled earlier than otherwise as they need to 'earn their living' and it wouldn't be economically possible to keep them on if they didn't. Some might live on as pets of a sort. Also, if land use was changing over to arable then there wouldn't be food/grass available for them and they couldn't be allowed starve. Horses, kept for sports activities would probably escape the cull. The farm dog would be mindlessly bored and dizzy from chasing it's tail. The farm cat would have to do without it's milk and go hunt mice and rats instead.

The people who like to drive through the countryside or live in the countryside might get a bit upset. Driving through some of the intensive cereal producing areas of England is very boring. Animals in fields add in variation and the features that go with them add interest and beauty. There would be a dearth of lush green fields of grass and winding lanes of hedgerows with a variety of tree species. In a way, wild-life would suffer too as the reduction in variety of habitats affected their diversity too.

More trees would be a marvellous thing though. We have what, only 15% tree coverage on the island? Way too low. I know what you're saying about driving through the countryside and it looking boring cos of the fields of cereal, but that's just something people would need to get used to. It's an interesting one though. As Unearthly said above with sanctuaries for them so they wouldn't go extinct. Might be hard to get steady funding though. Animal welfare charities struggle at the best of times.

auspicious · 21-11-2020 11:16pm

"The uncertainty about future forest ownership and a slow down in the rate of planting may mean a decline in biodiversity and some species of conservation concern, reliant on the forests.”

These incredibly low numbers are primarily due to human activity in the 18th and 19th centuries, and to a lesser extent also activities in the early 20th century.

Deforestation originally occurred due to the needs of growing agriculture trends in Ireland and this activity then escalated with the birth and growth of the Industrial Age. Trees were cut down in the thousands as wood requirements hit unprecedented levels and, despite numerous initiatives throughout the 20th and 21st centuries, forest levels have never recovered.

Unfortunately that is the reality in modern day Ireland but, as we’ve said many times before, it doesn’t have to be the case!

https://emerald-heritage.com/blog/2018/why-ireland-has-no-trees

Yes my heart bleeds for the poor Sunday drivers sheding a tear for the missing 'employees'( forced labour) in the fields....no. If the whole world went vegan tomorrow , well we'd all every last person on Earth be quite content with animal liberation, and countryside biodiversity would surge in 10 to 20 years.

21-11-2020 11:39pm

greysides wrote: »

If there were a gradual changeover where farm animals were not needed for food then numbers of animals on farms would gradually decline in response to market forces. Most animals reared for meat have relatively short lives so it wouldn't take long for their numbers to decrease once no more were being breed. Cows live longer, as they are productive for longer, and so would numbers would drop more slowly; though a lot would probably be culled earlier than otherwise as they need to 'earn their living' and it wouldn't be economically possible to keep them on if they didn't. Some might live on as pets of a sort. Also, if land use was changing over to arable then there wouldn't be food/grass available for them and they couldn't be allowed starve. Horses, kept for sports activities would probably escape the cull. The farm dog would be mindlessly bored and dizzy from chasing it's tail. The farm cat would have to do without it's milk and go hunt mice and rats instead.

The people who like to drive through the countryside or live in the countryside might get a bit upset. Driving through some of the intensive cereal producing areas of England is very boring. Animals in fields add in variation and the features that go with them add interest and beauty. There would be a dearth of lush green fields of grass and winding lanes of hedgerows with a variety of tree species. In a way, wild-life would suffer too as the reduction in variety of habitats affected their diversity too.

Jesus that’s some amount of drivel to be posting.

I currently don’t have the time required to address each and every insensitive ‘point’ you’ve raised.

Not sure you get how vegans or vegetarians feel about the animal cruelty. This forum mightn’t be for you.

Bigbooty · 21-11-2020 11:43pm

The world wouldn't go vegan overnight. A move to a more plant based diet would phase out demands for animal products. I'm ultimately less optimistic as demand is projected to grow by 25% in the next ten years as developing countries grow economically.

As per your point about introduction of predators. There would really need to be a wider discussion on rural land use and ecosystem restoration. It simply isn't feasible in Ireland at present because of the extent of farming in this country. Perhaps you should look at what they've got planned for lynx introduction in Scotland. It seems more feasible than reintroducing wolves.

Endless fields of sheep and cows with the odd bit of hedgerow/forest does not constitute biodiversity in my view. We need to reforest areas and we could start doing this by rewilding uplands which would ultimately require a massive reduction in sheep grazing.

You hit on so many different topics, not all of which is really applicable to veganism. You might find the answers your looking for among environmentalists. Veganism is a social justice issue that pursues animal rights.

dubrov · 22-11-2020 12:15am

Deleted User wrote:

Jesus thatâ€™s some amount of drivel to be posting.

Deleted User wrote:

I literally donâ€™t have the time required to address each and every insensitive â€˜pointâ€™ youâ€™ve raised.

Maybe try and add something to the discussion rather than spouting the above

eviltwin · 22-11-2020 12:18am

What is the point of this forum? Is it a place for veggies and vegan to share ideas or a place to discuss the ethics of same?

Xtrail14 · 22-11-2020 12:21am

Would ye not give wafer thin ham a try?

22-11-2020 12:23am

eviltwin wrote: »

What is the point of this forum? Is it a place for veggies and vegan to share ideas or a place to discuss the ethics of same?

This was recently addressed in the charter.

It should be a place to V & V’s to come and relax but it’s not currently.

It’s a daily defence of our beliefs.

Daily.

A dissection of the ethics involved. Nothing the regular users on the forum want to do. Daily.

Rinse and repeat.

And from the same posters.

Ten of Swords · 22-11-2020 12:27am

Xtrail14 do not post in this thread again

eviltwin · 22-11-2020 12:34am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This was recently addressed in the charter.

It should be a place to V & V’s to come and relax but it’s not currently.

It’s a daily defence of our beliefs.

Daily.

A dissection of the ethics involved. Nothing the regular users on the forum want to do. Daily.

Rinse and repeat.

And from the same posters.

It’s absolutely ridiculous.

22-11-2020 5:02am

greysides wrote: »

If there were a gradual changeover where farm animals were not needed for food then numbers of animals on farms would gradually decline in response to market forces. Most animals reared for meat have relatively short lives so it wouldn't take long for their numbers to decrease once no more were being breed. Cows live longer, as they are productive for longer, and so would numbers would drop more slowly; though a lot would probably be culled earlier than otherwise as they need to 'earn their living' and it wouldn't be economically possible to keep them on if they didn't. Some might live on as pets of a sort. Also, if land use was changing over to arable then there wouldn't be food/grass available for them and they couldn't be allowed starve. Horses, kept for sports activities would probably escape the cull. The farm dog would be mindlessly bored and dizzy from chasing it's tail. The farm cat would have to do without it's milk and go hunt mice and rats instead.

The people who like to drive through the countryside or live in the countryside might get a bit upset. Driving through some of the intensive cereal producing areas of England is very boring. Animals in fields add in variation and the features that go with them add interest and beauty. There would be a dearth of lush green fields of grass and winding lanes of hedgerows with a variety of tree species. In a way, wild-life would suffer too as the reduction in variety of habitats affected their diversity too.

Gonna call this for what it is.

Drivel and bad form.

Bad form because you’re a moderator and should have some respect for the work your fellow moderators do.

Drivel because it’s incitement. You know what forum you’re in. Your comments are completely and unquestionably out of order.

You should be held to a higher standard as a moderator. If you’re not familiar with the beliefs of vegans or vegetarians then you should educate yourself before chipping in with such nonsense.

The following in particular is distasteful - ‘ Horses, kept for sports activities would probably escape the cull. The farm dog would be mindlessly bored and dizzy from chasing it's tail. The farm cat would have to do without it's milk and go hunt mice and rats instead.

The people who like to drive through the countryside or live in the countryside might get a bit upset. Driving through some of the intensive cereal producing areas of England is very boring. Animals in fields add in variation and the features that go with them add interest and beauty.’

What forums do you moderate ?

Quantum Erasure · 22-11-2020 5:47am

Would there be any livestock let roam wild in Ireland? Sheep maybe in the mountains, i dont think we'd see cows or pigs anyway, ...

Gary kk · 22-11-2020 8:36am

You can't be respectful to anyone klopp. Your hiding behind it's the v&v forum but your just an ass.

22-11-2020 9:02am

Gary kk wrote: »

You can't be respectful to anyone klopp. Your hiding behind it's the v&v forum but your just an ass.

Pathetic post.

It’s amazing how brave cowards are when hiding behind a keyboard.

Tilikum17 · 22-11-2020 9:08am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Pathetic post.

It’s amazing how brave cowards are when hiding behind a keyboard.

Not even 8am on a Sunday morning and the first thing a farmer does is check the vegan/vegetarian forum lol.

Gary kk · 22-11-2020 9:08am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Pathetic post.

It’s amazing how brave cowards are when hiding behind a keyboard.

You got me in one. That's exactly who I am, a keyboard warrior.

listermint · 22-11-2020 9:15am

auspicious wrote: »

Yes my heart bleeds for the poor Sunday drivers sheding a tear for the missing 'employees'( forced labour) in the fields....no. If the whole world went vegan tomorrow , well we'd all every last person on Earth be quite content with animal liberation, and countryside biodiversity would surge in 10 to 20 years.

Wtf did I just read..... ... ???!

22-11-2020 9:17am

Gary kk wrote: »

You got me in one. That's exactly who I am, a keyboard warrior.

I didn’t say that.

Gary kk · 22-11-2020 9:18am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I didn’t say that.

Sorry right a coward behind a keyboard. My bad.

22-11-2020 9:24am

Gary kk wrote: »

Sorry right a coward behind a keyboard. My bad.

That’s right.

That would be my definition of someone that will say something online (or behind someone’s back) but wouldn’t say it to someone’s face.

Gary kk · 22-11-2020 9:27am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That’s right.

That would be my definition of someone that will say something online (or behind someone’s back) but wouldn’t say it to someone’s face.

Behind ones back?

Edit:
Klopp did a mod tell you that I reported one of your post.
Seriously Klopp tell me that was a just a stupid post.

If the world goes completely vegan

Comments