Bin charge protests and breastfeeding

It is one thing to punish a perpetrator, another the child.

Does anybody know at what age you would normally stop breastfeeding a baby? I heard the mothers husband on Joe Duffys radio show saying she was a devoted mother and had spent the past two years getting up during the night to feed her baby and how being away for a week would be a problem. So, I would assume that the child is at least 2 years old. The husband also stated that they were not protesting over the bin charges but it was more in relation to their right to protest.

Its great to see that all these viscous criminals are being jailed

Absolutely. We let armed criminals and thugs walk away with token sentences at best, but we'll be damned if people who are engaged in a peaceful protest aren't going to get the proverbial book thrown at them.

Back on topic, yes it is somewhat hypocritical to give the woman the shorter sentence, even though this clearly appears to be against the spirit of equality legislation. However, if the woman was breastfeeding her child, that would demonstrate an immediate need on the part of the child to continue breastfeeding. I don't know if this would be reason enough to warrant a more lenient sentence, but it certainly explains why it was done.

Originally posted by Seraphina
they should have introduced the child to solid foods at that age
no excuse
bloody women

Oh, the temptation....
No, it's too much. Can't resist...

Breasts are solid...

Socialists across Europe have no problem with charges. Yet Joe Higgin's & his gang do.

People outside Dublin - have no problem with paying to getting rid of refuse.

Down in West Cork - the payment by wieght system is a success. Joe Higgins should come down to see this in operation.

The government has brought personal taxation but Dubliners (who pay) pay considerably less for refuse disposal.

It is time to bring back rates. Socialists across the EU have no problem with rates and they should inform their irish comrades of this.

OH - Jail Terms - have more to do with not gaurenteeing to stand by high court orders.

Originally posted by Cork
It is time to bring back rates. Socialists across the EU have no problem with rates and they should inform their irish comrades of this.

Cork, as I've told you a dozen times by now in the politics forum, the protest is not over not wanting to pay for the service, it's over not wanting to pay twice for it. And socialists across the EU (as well as politicians of all manner of alignments) would take one look at our government's record on corruption and recommend something more akin to armed revolt rather than not paying bin taxes!

Originally posted by Cork
We have due process to take care of crimes in this country.

Indeed. Might want to let people like GV Wright know that for next time so Cork...

Protesters aganist bin charges are not paying twice.

Yes they are. Didn't read thaed's post either, did you?

People paid rates prior to 1977. These were abolished. So, local authoritys have the power to introduce service charges.

Indeed? Says who?
If the tax relief scheme covered the bin charges properly Cork, we wouldn't be seeing these protests. Or do you think that people have so much time on their hands that jail seems like a bit of a lark?

If these protesters have paid twice - why are some of them in jail. Why can't they show this ,if they are up before the judge??

Because the judge isn't asking to see if they've paid twice, as you well know. Stop being disingenous Cork, you're not good enough at it to pull it off.

In West Cork - People pay by wieght. This is fair - it encourages recycling.

Actually, in West Cork they pay by weight and then turn about and pay a second time by PAYE.

It is about time, local authoritys across Dublin adopted a similar system.

Indeed it is. It's just that the protestors have decided that enough is enough, and they won't pay for the clusterfug that is the current system. Introduce pay-by-weight with proper tax credits and there won't be a protest. Introduce pay-by-weight and then expect people to forget that they already paid for the service in their PAYE, and don't expect anything but a protest, especially when they get to watch as judges and politicians get caught not paying taxes in the first place.

Jackie Healy Rae was protesting aganist the smoking ban today out side the FF Ard Fheis. I am sure, when January 1st comes - Jackie will obey the law.

I doubt it. JHR is Fianna Fail to the bone, even if he's wearing an independent's clothes right now. And he's as trustworthy as the day is long - meaning that you can't trust him for more than twelve hours at a stretch.

If he does not - we might have another TD going to the Big House.

Cork, he already goes to Dail Eireann once or twice a month, like all the other TDs...
Mind you, the idea of a Fianna Fail TD in court isn't exactly new.

Originally posted by Sparks
It'd work too, if they weren't busy delivering that new learjet for bertie...

Governments across the EU have government jets. But accross the EU - they have waste charges.

Landfill costs are rising as environmental standards rise.

People are not paying twice for this service. Some expect the service without paying for it.

I wonder - does he expect the state to pick up motor tax and dog licence fees?

Joe in Wonderland

Originally posted by Sparks

Indeed it is - it's just that it's charging the wrong people. We've already paid. If the Local authority needs more cash, they should simply take the government to court for the cash we paid them.

Local Authoritys have powers to impose charges. Could you point to where you are getting the pay twice data from?

I could see local authoritys pulling out of waste collection and leaving it commercial companies.

Commercial Companies will surely collect rubbish for free.

In a perfect world every thing would be free.

But refuse collection costs. You have landfill fees, wages and truck expenses.

If Joe & his crew won't gaurentee that they won't breach high court orders - there is due process.

So, where can it be shown that refuse charges - people are paying twice?

People outside Dublin - have no problems with paying for a service. Maybe some Dubliners find it hard to accept that they'll have to take responsibility for their trash.

As Kermit The Frog Said "Its cool To Be Green".

Landfill is not the answer anyway.

Payment by wieght is the way to go. This was introduced first in West Cork. North Cork is following from next January.

Dublin - catch up.

Originally posted by Cork
Local Authoritys have powers to impose charges. Could you point to where you are getting the pay twice data from?

Two places - one being the revenue commissionars, who have a partial (and rather inadaquate) tax relief scheme for local services (and they don't give tax relief on something that you haven't paid for Cork...); and the other being the reality that without a seperate funding source, waste collection has happened in the past, ergo it was paid for from general taxation.

Simple, logical and clear as crystal to anyone that sits down and thinks about it soberly for more than four seconds.

I could see local authoritys pulling out of waste collection and leaving it commercial companies.

And I can see Gardai beating unarmed protestors illegally - doesn't mean it's right though...

Commercial Companies will surely collect rubbish for free.

Nope. But you can be damn sure they won't send you two invoices for one service...

In a perfect world every thing would be free.
But refuse collection costs. You have landfill fees, wages and truck expenses.

And that's an implied lie. I've said it before, and I will keep on saying it cork - they're not asking for a free service, they're saying they will only pay for it once, not twice. Trying to imply that they're asking for a free service is a lie.

If Joe & his crew won't gaurentee that they won't breach high court orders - there is due process.

Yup.

So, where can it be shown that refuse charges - people are paying twice?

The start of this post.

People outside Dublin - have no problems with paying for a service. Maybe some Dubliners find it hard to accept that they'll have to take responsibility for their trash.

Actually, people outside dublin and people inside dublin have two things in common - neither expects a free service and neither wants to pay twice for something. The difference is that inside dublin they're actually doing something about it. A stand that will benefit everyone in the long term.
But it's in the long term, so I'm not surprised you don't see that cork, long-term isn't a FF trait.

Payment by wieght is the way to go. This was introduced first in West Cork. North Cork is following from next January.
Dublin - catch up.

And are they happy about paying twice? No. But for whatever reason they've decided not to bother protesting the fact. But if the protestors in fingall get their objective - not to pay twice for the same service - than you can be damn sure that west cork will be on the streets the next day. There aren't that many fools down there...

Local Authoritys have no obligation to collect refuse that has not the correct amount of tags.

Yup.

Where are you getting the pay twice thing from?

Top of this post please cork.

No local authority can charge for something twice.

They can and do. Nothing illegal about it either, just immoral. However, it's not illegal to refuse to pay for something twice.

Originally posted by Cork
Now, the revenue commissioners are seperate from local authoritys. The Revenue commissioners collect tax and are not responsible for services other than tax collection.

Even you're not that intellectually challanged Cork. Try to answer the question rather than pulling a bertie.

The revenue commissionars manage central taxation. They know what central taxation pays for. And they provide an incomplete stab at tax relief for those that pay for their services directly to the local authority or private contractors. Which means one of two things:
1) Santa's running the revenue commissionars and is giving away money during a recession;
2) Local services are charged for in central taxation.

Directory Enquiries used be free from Eircom Phone Boxes.

And then Eircom was sold off as a private company.

Motor Taxation was paid from geeneral taxation after the 1977 election.

Do you really want to risk bringing VRT into this argument Cork?

Both public and private companies can charge for things that were once considered "Free".

Liar. Not only is this not true as you have written it, it assumes the protestors want the service provided for free, which they don't.

Local Authorities now charge for planning objections. Just because something was once free - you cannot expect it to be free forever.

Indeed. However, rubbish collection was never free and noone ever expected it to be. They do expect to only pay once for it though, and they have a perfect right to demand that they only pay for it once.
And by the way, you need a reason to start charging for something that's been free for ages. And "profit" does not suffice as a reason for public authorities.

General Direct Taxation has come down in the mean-time & landfill costs have rocketed.

General direct taxation has come down and general indirect taxation has risen, more than compensating and increasing social inequity in the bargain.
A rise in service costs should result in a rise in service charges, not charging twice for the same thing.

Originally posted by Cork
Local Authorities have no obligation to collect refuse. They don't come next or near my road.

And the protestors have no obligation to pay twice for the same service.

Commercial Contractors do.

No they don't, not unless you have a contract with them. And if you have a contract with them, they can't demand payment twice.

Every body down my road pays for commercial collectors to come in & collect refuse.

As do I.

People on that road get a waiver scheme - we don't.

No, you don't get a waiver, you get tax credits instead, to a value of around 200 euro or so. Of course, that can either cover bin charges or local authority charges, but as I said above, the tax relief scheme is incomplete and inadaquate.

People accross Cork have been paying for refuse for years.

And people in fingal have been paying for refuse collection for years as well, and not only that, they paid for it this year. They're just not going to pay for it twice.

People are getting a service. If people on my road did not pay - the refuse bin would not come & empty the refuse.

Yes, but the protestors in fingal have already paid for the service.

They are not legally oblieged to do so. There is no legal compulsion for local authoritys to collect refuse,

And where have I said there was?

In one Cork Town - people put out bins without the correct number of tags. Legally - the council did not have to collect it.

Yup.

If paying twice can be proven - you have won your case.

Then I've won my case. Or didn't you read the posts I've written this evening?

I have my doubts, as local authoritys do seem to have the power to impose charges.

That's got nothing to do with it. No-one is saying "oh, I'm not paying for the service and I want it anyway". They're saying "I've paid for the service, and now I want it".

I think the local government fund is a non specific contribution to local authoritys from central government.

Non-specific?
So what, bertie signs a cheque for a quarter-million euro and gives it to Wicklow County Council without any detailed bill?
:rolleyes:

Although, scarily, given that the FF/PDs are in charge, I wouldn't be overly surprised...

I don't think either of us is going to convince the other on this one.

That's only due to your lack of willingness to acknowlege reality. If you could manage to drop the FF line for thirty seconds while thinking about this, you'd see how daft you look arguing your point.

But - If the anti bin protestors have a hope - they need to win the payment twice arguement in the courts.

The payment twice fact hasn't been brought to the courts, yet.

Stopping the trucks from collecting the waste WAS their protest.

Blocking trucks is not protesting. It just costs the local authoritys money. If these people think they pay for this service - let them prove it in court.

Local Authoritys have power to impose charges for services it provides. Any public or private sector organisation can do this.

People outside Dublin have no problem with these charges.

People are responsible for thir own trash. It is up of everybody to reduce, recycling & re-use. You cannot expect the state to pick up the tab for your garbage.

The days of landfill are numbered anyway.