Bin charge protests and breastfeeding

BrianD3

I heard in the news today that some Dublin bin charges protestors have been sent to jail. 9 people were given 2 week sentences and the 10th was given 1 week. Why the shorter sentence? The reason appears to be because she is a breastfeeding mother.

Am I the only one who finds this judgement a disgrace? Seems to be a very obvious example of how women can play the sympathy card when it suits them and receive preferential treatement, yet demand equal treatment at other times, again when it suits them. Funnily enough, the judge in this case was also a woman.....

I'm just wondering - was this protestor breastfeeding her child while she was taking part in blockades of bin lorries? :rolleyes: Anyway, for a mother with very young children to be putting herself in the situation where she could go to jail is particularly stupid and irresponsible.

From RTE's aertel service

Ten anti waste charge protesters have
been sent to Mountjoy Prison for
defying a High Court order.

Nine were jailed for two weeks, and a
tenth protester, who told the court
that she is a breastfeeding mother, was
jailed for a week.

As the sentences were handed down by
Miss Justice Mella Carroll, there were
shouts of 'shame on you' from
supporters of the protesters in the
court.

Victor

It is one thing to punish a perpetrator, another the child.

DeVore

And those fathers dont have kids to provide for?

And before you say "they should have thought of that before breaking the law!".... so should she.

I think we've been down the "equal" rights issue fairly recently...

DeV.

K2

Does anybody know at what age you would normally stop breastfeeding a baby? I heard the mothers husband on Joe Duffys radio show saying she was a devoted mother and had spent the past two years getting up during the night to feed her baby and how being away for a week would be a problem. So, I would assume that the child is at least 2 years old. The husband also stated that they were not protesting over the bin charges but it was more in relation to their right to protest.

puntosporting

Its great to see that all these viscous criminals are being jailed:rolleyes:

Country is a disgrace its one thing after another !

swiss

Its great to see that all these viscous criminals are being jailed

Absolutely. We let armed criminals and thugs walk away with token sentences at best, but we'll be damned if people who are engaged in a peaceful protest aren't going to get the proverbial book thrown at them.

Back on topic, yes it is somewhat hypocritical to give the woman the shorter sentence, even though this clearly appears to be against the spirit of equality legislation. However, if the woman was breastfeeding her child, that would demonstrate an immediate need on the part of the child to continue breastfeeding. I don't know if this would be reason enough to warrant a more lenient sentence, but it certainly explains why it was done.

mike65

I thought the Judge was about right, she noted the mothers position but did'nt let the plaintive sound of violins get the better of her. Breast feeding at two though....?

Mike.

Boston

its not that unusual mike, while some babes are never breat feed, others are for several years. I can remember a case where a 13 year old was still being breat feed, now thats ****ed up

Seraphina

they should have introduced the child to solid foods at that age

no excuse
bloody women

Sparks

Originally posted by Seraphina
they should have introduced the child to solid foods at that age
no excuse
bloody women

Oh, the temptation....
No, it's too much. Can't resist...

Breasts are solid...

Nevyn

I breast fed my two but sorry once they start getting teeth it was bottle time.

It could be that she is still feeding her child breast milk and not putting her to the breast.

Sera the child would be on soilds as well at this age.

DeVore

The attitude of the bin protesters is amusing. They (with the exception of the *inevitable* SWF/P bandwagonning) probably have never seen the inside of a polling booth. Ok, fair enough, you dont *have* to vote. But where were they when the county councils were meeting? When the councillors were being elected?
Why did this SUDDENLY explode into a big issue.

I have no problem with them peacefully protesting but thats not what they are doing because in actual fact a lot of people dont mind paying and want their rubbish collected.

Instead of peaceful protest we've have trucks hijacked, threats and intimidation and people who HAVE paid their taxes not getting the service they paid for because if they were allowed to get that service, their protest wouldnt be tiny and ineffective.

Protest away but if your neighbour wants to conform to the law then you shouldnt involve him in your argument.

I've been at two of their protests (I'm getting into independant film making kinda) and there were a couple of hundred at them and half of them were SWP groupies trying to sign people up.

DeV.

Boston

what exactly are you basing any of that on DeVore? The idea that these people have hard north dublin acents means they don't vote, sorry but bull. this didn't suddenly explode into a big issue, it has allways been a big issue, just that people like yourself only took notice when bin trucks where being stoped, then you complain about these tactics, well they worked on you didn't they?


As for protesting away, i wonder how you neightbour will feel when your rubish hasn't been collected for a month and raths have invested your garden.

threats and intimidation

what do you call arresting people and treatening people. Your not from these inner city areas so you don't know why people are so upset, these are the people in irish society who always have and allways will be pissed on from above, and they have had enough of it, they see this as the thin end of a huge wedge. You have people paying to park outseide their own door, to get rubbish collect, to have running water, to turn on the TV, where does it end? you say people don't mind paying out money for their bin to be collected, i'm sure they do, and i'm sure you will when its 7-8-9 hundread a year.

Cork

Socialists across Europe have no problem with charges. Yet Joe Higgin's & his gang do.

People outside Dublin - have no problem with paying to getting rid of refuse.

Down in West Cork - the payment by wieght system is a success. Joe Higgins should come down to see this in operation.

The government has brought personal taxation but Dubliners (who pay) pay considerably less for refuse disposal.

It is time to bring back rates. Socialists across the EU have no problem with rates and they should inform their irish comrades of this.

OH - Jail Terms - have more to do with not gaurenteeing to stand by high court orders.

Boston

i agree bring back rates, average house price in dublin is around 300bgrand so about 10 grand a year sounds nice. and we sould link the paying of rates to the voting register, if you dont pay you can't vote, thats the democratic way. i wonder why this country is so feiced up, its because the minute someone stands up for anything theres another 10 telling him to sit back down again.

Sparks

Originally posted by Cork
It is time to bring back rates. Socialists across the EU have no problem with rates and they should inform their irish comrades of this.

Cork, as I've told you a dozen times by now in the politics forum, the protest is not over not wanting to pay for the service, it's over not wanting to pay twice for it. And socialists across the EU (as well as politicians of all manner of alignments) would take one look at our government's record on corruption and recommend something more akin to armed revolt rather than not paying bin taxes!

Nevyn

The county councillors that voted in the charges wear all casting their votes along the lines of their political parties not as they people who voted them in wanted them to. And why did they do this they all see their current position as a jumping stone to becoming a TD and don’t want to rock the boat with their party.

It is less then 8 years ago that they raise Car tax and said that a % of that would be funnelled into paying for bin and water charges, this was given out about at the time and now that they are introducing bin charges there is not talk of lowering car taxes.

Currently they are saying it is only 5 euro everything you but the bin out and that should be every 2nd week if you recycle, and you know what you need to have a car to efficient recycle to do that. As of yet there are no plastic bins, the paper bin if you have on is once a month as for that composted there is an issue with that was well.

This government is trying to scare people into staying at home and not calling them to brook over all the various scandals and abuses of power of the years.

Dear gods if people get up of their arse over the bins what next, they might just decide to get active in other areas.

Why anyone votes fine Fail if beyond me, and they are in for a shock when the older generation who have always voted that way dies.

Macker

probably have never seen the inside of a polling booth.

And you base this on what exactly......????

gob****e

Macker

Cork

Originally posted by Sparks
Cork, as I've told you a dozen times by now in the politics forum, the protest is not over not wanting to pay for the service, it's over not wanting to pay twice for it. And socialists across the EU (as well as politicians of all manner of alignments) would take one look at our government's record on corruption and recommend something more akin to armed revolt rather than not paying bin taxes!

We have due process to take care of crimes in this country. Protesters aganist bin charges are not paying twice. People paid rates prior to 1977. These were abolished. So, local authoritys have the power to introduce service charges.

If these protesters have paid twice - why are some of them in jail. Why can't they show this ,if they are up before the judge??

In West Cork - People pay by wieght. This is fair - it encourages recycling.

It is about time, local authoritys across Dublin adopted a similar system.

Jackie Healy Rae was protesting aganist the smoking ban today out side the FF Ard Fheis. I am sure, when January 1st comes - Jackie will obey the law.

If he does not - we might have another TD going to the Big House.

Sparks

Originally posted by Cork
We have due process to take care of crimes in this country.

Indeed. Might want to let people like GV Wright know that for next time so Cork...

Protesters aganist bin charges are not paying twice.

Yes they are. Didn't read thaed's post either, did you?

People paid rates prior to 1977. These were abolished. So, local authoritys have the power to introduce service charges.

Indeed? Says who?
If the tax relief scheme covered the bin charges properly Cork, we wouldn't be seeing these protests. Or do you think that people have so much time on their hands that jail seems like a bit of a lark?

If these protesters have paid twice - why are some of them in jail. Why can't they show this ,if they are up before the judge??

Because the judge isn't asking to see if they've paid twice, as you well know. Stop being disingenous Cork, you're not good enough at it to pull it off.

In West Cork - People pay by wieght. This is fair - it encourages recycling.

Actually, in West Cork they pay by weight and then turn about and pay a second time by PAYE.

It is about time, local authoritys across Dublin adopted a similar system.

Indeed it is. It's just that the protestors have decided that enough is enough, and they won't pay for the clusterfug that is the current system. Introduce pay-by-weight with proper tax credits and there won't be a protest. Introduce pay-by-weight and then expect people to forget that they already paid for the service in their PAYE, and don't expect anything but a protest, especially when they get to watch as judges and politicians get caught not paying taxes in the first place.

Jackie Healy Rae was protesting aganist the smoking ban today out side the FF Ard Fheis. I am sure, when January 1st comes - Jackie will obey the law.

I doubt it. JHR is Fianna Fail to the bone, even if he's wearing an independent's clothes right now. And he's as trustworthy as the day is long - meaning that you can't trust him for more than twelve hours at a stretch.

If he does not - we might have another TD going to the Big House.

Cork, he already goes to Dail Eireann once or twice a month, like all the other TDs...
Mind you, the idea of a Fianna Fail TD in court isn't exactly new.

Cork

Actually, in West Cork they pay by weight and then turn about and pay a second time by PAYE.
[/B]

No people pay their PAYE and then for other services they use eg. dog licence, motor tax and refuse charges. PAYE does not cover any of these services.

I am sure VAT does not cover them either.

Water Rates will be on agenda in the next few years. Water charges are being paid across the EU. Joe Higgins should consult his comrades across the EU on this.

Services have to be paid for. The services local authorities provide are not all covered by PAYE.

PAYE rates have fallen over the last few years. You cannot expect the state to pay to get rid of your trash.

Paying Twice for a service is aganist the law. Joe Higgins should go to court to proove this when he gets out of the big house.

But if he can't proof this. The local authority is right to charge for services it provides.

Boston

paye rates may have fallen, but the revenue from them has never been higher. The services are allready being paid for through existing taxation, how do you think they where paying for it?

ur mentor

Looks like the row is going into the results of the protests and the rights and wrongs of punishments and avoiding discussing the underlying issues
how do we manage to reduce waste
how do we get this management paid for
Perhaps if the system was equal then there would be no protest. It appears that if everyone paid for waste management from PAYE then
1. tax would go up
2. the amount of waste prodced would not be reduced in any way as waste removal would appear to be free or at least "Ive paid for it so I may as well make the most of it"
3 People not on PAYE and on low income taxes would be subsidised by those on PAYE
If it is charged for by weight then people will
1. USe other peoples bins, skips, public waste bins etc.
2/ Try to put less weight into bin to save money
If it is a flat rate charge then
-there is no incentive to recycle
-people and neighbours come together to really fill each bin as full as possible
- people and neighbours come together to share bins between them
Any solutions

Boston

maybe these people are just pissed off because there being asked to pay for waste to be incenerated in their own back yard? i know i am,.

Sparks

Originally posted by Cork
No people pay their PAYE and then for other services they use eg. dog licence, motor tax and refuse charges. PAYE does not cover any of these services.

It may not cover those services cork, but saying that those services weren't paid for out of PAYE tax is a lie. And since this isn't the Dail, I can call you on it.

I am sure VAT does not cover them either.

Nope, it's earmarked for personal jets...

Water Rates will be on agenda in the next few years. Water charges are being paid across the EU. Joe Higgins should consult his comrades across the EU on this.

Were he to do so and to explain the current government to them, their advice would probably be to emigrate or to lead an armed revolt cork, not to comply with FF!

Services have to be paid for. The services local authorities provide are not all covered by PAYE.

Nope, but they are meant to be. FF's attempts to castrate local authorities have lead to this impasse, so you don't get the right to turn around and demand that we accept a second bill for the same service!

PAYE rates have fallen over the last few years. You cannot expect the state to pay to get rid of your trash.

PAYE has fallen, VAT and other indirect taxation has risen to compensate (and then some), and we're even paying illegal taxes like VRT. (Hey, what would the EU say about that cork?)

Paying Twice for a service is aganist the law. Joe Higgins should go to court to proove this when he gets out of the big house.

Paying twice for something isn't against the law Cork. Caveat Emptor and so on. For a guy that's sure of a lot, you don't seem to know very much...

But if he can't proof this. The local authority is right to charge for services it provides.

Indeed it is - it's just that it's charging the wrong people. We've already paid. If the Local authority needs more cash, they should simply take the government to court for the cash we paid them.

RainyDay

Here's the solution - Let's just wait for the bin fairies to take away our rubbish

Sparks

Originally posted by RainyDay
Here's the solution - Let's just wait for the bin fairies to take away our rubbish

It'd work too, if they weren't busy delivering that new learjet for bertie...

Cork

Originally posted by Sparks
It'd work too, if they weren't busy delivering that new learjet for bertie...

Governments across the EU have government jets. But accross the EU - they have waste charges.

Landfill costs are rising as environmental standards rise.

People are not paying twice for this service. Some expect the service without paying for it.

I wonder - does he expect the state to pick up motor tax and dog licence fees?

Joe in Wonderland

Sparks

Originally posted by Cork
Governments across the EU have government jets.

That's another lie. Do I have to post the UK government policy document on travel by airline again???

But accross the EU - they have waste charges.

And less corrupt and more competent politicians.
For example, if Blair turned out to have blatently lied on his resume for years, he would be out on his ear.

People are not paying twice for this service. Some expect the service without paying for it.

Two more lies. People are being asked to pay twice and they are not expecting the service without paying for it.

I wonder - does he expect the state to pick up motor tax and dog licence fees?
Joe in Wonderland

Are we going to do the name-calling thing? 'Cos if "joe in wonderland" is the best you've got, I've won before I start.

Cork

Originally posted by Sparks

Indeed it is - it's just that it's charging the wrong people. We've already paid. If the Local authority needs more cash, they should simply take the government to court for the cash we paid them.

Local Authoritys have powers to impose charges. Could you point to where you are getting the pay twice data from?

I could see local authoritys pulling out of waste collection and leaving it commercial companies.

Commercial Companies will surely collect rubbish for free.

In a perfect world every thing would be free.

But refuse collection costs. You have landfill fees, wages and truck expenses.

If Joe & his crew won't gaurentee that they won't breach high court orders - there is due process.

So, where can it be shown that refuse charges - people are paying twice?

People outside Dublin - have no problems with paying for a service. Maybe some Dubliners find it hard to accept that they'll have to take responsibility for their trash.

As Kermit The Frog Said "Its cool To Be Green".

Landfill is not the answer anyway.

Payment by wieght is the way to go. This was introduced first in West Cork. North Cork is following from next January.

Dublin - catch up.

Cork

Originally posted by Sparks



Two more lies. People are being asked to pay twice and they are not expecting the service without paying for it.

Local Authoritys have no obligation to collect refuse that has not the correct amount of tags.

I will PM you with a few Town Councils telephone numbers - If you need proof of this.

Where are you getting the pay twice thing from?

No local authority can charge for something twice.

Could you supply a link or source by from a local authority act to back this up??