Offseason 2021 - Trades, Free Agency, QB Carousel

adrian522 · 05-02-2021 7:07pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

I don't see how they possibly do this with the cap situation unless something crazy like Wentz giving back his signing bonus.

On a pre-june 1 trade it is $33m in dead cap, $11m higher than the previous record.

That would be terrible for any team in a normal year, but next year with the reduced cap the Eagles are already 53m over. Add in that Wentz dead cap and they'd be $86m over the cap - pushing towards 50% over.

They could push the trade to post-june 1 but that leaves so many moving pieces and teams potentially backing out and the other screwed.

It wouldn't put them 86m over. It would be dead money of 33m but that is already factored into the 53m that they are over. It's not an additional 33m. They are paying it either way but if they trade him they actually reduce their overall cap hit by 800k.

Either way it's a huge contract they are on the hook for.

letowski · 05-02-2021 7:43pm

The compensation in the trade will be interesting too. I don’t necessarily think the Colts send picks to Philly. It might be a Osweiler type deal for the Colts to take on all that risk and money.

I get the feeling it won’t happen though. I’d love to eavesdrop a conversation between Peterson and Reich over Carson Wentz, which I’m sure has already happened.

05-02-2021 8:02pm

letowski wrote: »

The compensation in the trade will be interesting too. I don’t necessarily think the Colts send picks to Philly. It might be a Osweiler type deal for the Colts to take on all that risk and money.

I get the feeling it won’t happen though. I’d love to eavesdrop a conversation between Peterson and Reich over Carson Wentz, which I’m sure has already happened.

Not a hope I'd say even with that kind of deal they end up with huge dead cap next season they can move him cheap. Of they are to move him this year it would only be for a huge deal which they won't get

Foxtrol · 05-02-2021 8:14pm

adrian522 wrote: »

It wouldn't put them 86m over. It would be dead money of 33m but that is already factored into the 53m that they are over. It's not an additional 33m. They are paying it either way but if they trade him they actually reduce their overall cap hit by 800k.

Either way it's a huge contract they are on the hook for.

You're right.

The dead cap isn't factored in until the player is cut or traded, so it is not included in the $53m overage, however that cap number does include his expected 2021 cap hit which would be gone post trade - the latter part I missed.

Trading him now would save them 800k but currently after the 3rd day of the league year (March 20th ish) his $10m bonus is due so a trade would cost them $9.2m alongside not having the player.

adrian522 · 06-02-2021 11:25am

Drew Brees is coming back for another year on what seems like a veteran minimum type contract, freeing up $24m in cap space.

Mr. Guappa · 06-02-2021 11:49am

adrian522 wrote: »

Drew Brees is coming back for another year on what seems like a veteran minimum type contract, freeing up $24m in cap space.

I think it's just a resturcture to help the Saints cap space issues, but he will still retire.

adrian522 · 06-02-2021 11:51am

OK, that seems fairly dodgy if that's the case.

BonnieSituation · 06-02-2021 12:59pm

Team friendly contracts are bad now? Surely not?

---

What will he do, restructure and then go on IR for the year?

The_Honeybadger · 06-02-2021 1:23pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Team friendly contracts are bad now? Surely not?

---

What will he do, restructure and then go on IR for the year?

He will retire after June 1st to spread the dead cap over two years instead of one. He had two void years at the end of his deal that allows them to do this.

Foxtrol · 06-02-2021 8:06pm

adrian522 wrote: »

OK, that seems fairly dodgy if that's the case.

Not as dodgy as these 'void' years that are all the rage these days.

Foxtrol · 06-02-2021 8:07pm

Latest breakdown of what tools teams have to play with this offseason to improve. Some will need some serious magic to not regress.

https://twitter.com/LeeSharpeNFL/status/1358085470027042818?s=20

06-02-2021 8:13pm

Jags for 2023?

D9Male · 06-02-2021 8:36pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

Latest breakdown of what tools teams have to play with this offseason to improve. Some will need some serious magic to not regress.

https://twitter.com/LeeSharpeNFL/status/1358085470027042818?s=20

The Rams really are in win now mode. The Saints, win yesterday!

Oat23 · 06-02-2021 9:30pm

I will cry if this ends up being Ryan Pace's 'swing for the fences to save my job' move at QB. I have a feeling it will be.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1358147327282806787?s=19

letowski · 06-02-2021 9:36pm

Oat23 wrote: »

I will cry if this ends up being Ryan Pace's 'swing for the fences to save my job' move at QB. I have a feeling it will be.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1358147327282806787?s=19

I hope it is the Bears, because I don’t want him in Indy either lol

Foxtrol · 06-02-2021 9:40pm

Oat23 wrote: »

I will cry if this ends up being Ryan Pace's 'swing for the fences to save my job' move at QB. I have a feeling it will be.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1358147327282806787?s=19

If this happens I was completely wrong. The coaching change seeming designed to keep Wentz and was not expecting a team to give Eagles close to enough to eat the dead cap.

Even with the savings from the money the Eagles will eat, a first sounds like a huge overpay for that contract given his recent performances.

I wonder if this is planted intel trying to drum up interest - the way it is worded points to it coming from the Eagles camp.

Itssoeasy · 06-02-2021 11:07pm

Oat23 wrote: »

I will cry if this ends up being Ryan Pace's 'swing for the fences to save my job' move at QB. I have a feeling it will be.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1358147327282806787?s=19

The bears are on the inside rail of the wentz trade now ? Haha well ye tried with the starting QB from the eagles super bowl team so why not get the other one. At this stage it’s better if they get a deal sorted that he goes.

adrian522 · 07-02-2021 12:05am

He was so bad this year and his contract is so bad its hard to imagine there is much market from him. The tweets recently seem more like either the Eagles or his agent trying to generate some buzz or try to increase his value.

Anyone taking him on should not be giving up more than a mid-round pick in my opinion.

He was QB 34 by passer rating this year:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/season/2020/seasontype/2/table/passing/sort/QBRating/dir/desc

letowski · 07-02-2021 1:28am

This is barking mad.

https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/1358209202255200258

BonnieSituation · 07-02-2021 4:57am

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

He will retire after June 1st to spread the dead cap over two years instead of one. He had two void years at the end of his deal that allows them to do this.

Good for them

el Fenomeno · 07-02-2021 5:50pm

https://twitter.com/FieldYates/status/1358456243820638217?s=19

With the 2021 cap expected to be ~ $180m, it'll be interesting to see what those teams do to get back under the cap. Assuming the Brees restructure isn't taken into account above but they'll still have a lot to do.

Fans of those teams, what are they likely to do and what big names will likely be cap casualties?

The_Honeybadger · 07-02-2021 7:29pm

el Fenomeno wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FieldYates/status/1358456243820638217?s=19

With the 2021 cap expected to be ~ $180m, it'll be interesting to see what those teams do to get back under the cap. Assuming the Brees restructure isn't taken into account above but they'll still have a lot to do.

Fans of those teams, what are they likely to do and what big names will likely be cap casualties?

A quick look on OTC shows the Steelers can get back under the Cap with 5-6 extension / restructure type moves. Vance McDonald has already retired so that’s $5m off the number above and they have about the same again in carryover from 2020. Ben and Maurkise Pouncey might still retire. If they do they will be back around the $180m but their problems will be far from over.

Their biggest issue is that they have 19 guys hitting free agency, including 7-8 important starters. Trying to bring those guys back will be the problem if they want to be remotely competitive next year. Juju, Bud Dupree, James Conner and Mike Hilton would be the best known guys they are likely to lose. Villanueva their LT is likely to retire and their left guard Feiler will also be gone as well.

Whatever happens 2021 is not going to be pretty I fear. They would probably be as well off to move on from Ben, but I don’t think they will.

07-02-2021 8:07pm

Lot of talk of the eagles and a mid.round pick for Wentz. That makes little sense for the eagles..they save mo money and are down a qb. If they see what he has next season they can save money next season any many raise his value. I'd wager some team would throw a mid round pick for a shot at redeeming a no. 2 overall qb next off-season.

07-02-2021 8:10pm

el Fenomeno wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FieldYates/status/1358456243820638217?s=19

With the 2021 cap expected to be ~ $180m, it'll be interesting to see what those teams do to get back under the cap. Assuming the Brees restructure isn't taken into account above but they'll still have a lot to do.

Fans of those teams, what are they likely to do and what big names will likely be cap casualties?

Eagles will lose djax,alshon,ertz,malik jackson,barnett maby kelce if he retires

Itssoeasy · 07-02-2021 10:40pm

Ivy Better Rumba wrote: »

Eagles will lose djax,alshon,ertz,malik jackson,barnett maby kelce if he retires

Jason Peters should be on that list also. He’s done loads for the team but he didn’t need to be out there this season.

Itssoeasy · 07-02-2021 10:51pm

adrian522 wrote: »

He was so bad this year and his contract is so bad its hard to imagine there is much market from him. The tweets recently seem more like either the Eagles or his agent trying to generate some buzz or try to increase his value.

Anyone taking him on should not be giving up more than a mid-round pick in my opinion.

He was QB 34 by passer rating this year:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/season/2020/seasontype/2/table/passing/sort/QBRating/dir/desc

Any team who is even thinking of trading for him should ask him a few questions. 1) are you fully healthy ? 2) what’s the one issue we’d need to address to get you back to your best ? 3) are you willing to be coached and except criticism ?

The reason for those questions are because 1) I don’t believe he was fully healthy the season just gone. Something was wrong and regardless of where he is, it needs to be fixed. 2) this is about his mechanics and in game decision making which when you watch as many eagles games as eagles fans do, it’s clear that is off. He is holding on to the ball way too long and is either not seeing his reads or is and is for whatever reason not going to the open player and going to his safety blanket regardless of whether they are open or not, which leads to INTs, 3) This is a question I’d ask because the talk is that he’s not the type of player to except criticism and it did show in that Doug pederson left him in as starter way longer then he should when it was clear it was hurting the team. I mean look how the eagles players reacted to both nick foles during the super bowl win and even Jalen hurts during his team at the end of this season. It’s different to wentz.

Foxtrol · 07-02-2021 11:01pm

Ivy Better Rumba wrote: »

Eagles will lose djax,alshon,ertz,malik jackson,barnett maby kelce if he retires

Due to their habit of restructuring they save money but there is significant dead money on most of them. Eventually that approach catches up to you.

If they're blowing everything up it would make sense to take whatever they can for Wentz, presuming he is unhappy and not seen as worth the effort to try to reclaim. The fact a player looked to be celebrating is more evidence that he isn't well liked in the locker room.

adrian522 · 08-02-2021 12:45pm

https://howmanydaysuntil.center/nfl-kickoff/

Just the 212 days to go

phatkev · 08-02-2021 12:57pm

adrian522 wrote: »

https://howmanydaysuntil.center/nfl-kickoff/

Just the 212 days to go

VillaMad · 12-02-2021 3:59pm

JJ Watt released by the Texans. 3 time defensive player of the year.

Had one year left on his contract and by releasing him now, the Texans don't suffer any cap hit but surely they could have found a trade partner. The Steelers will surely be interested in him with having both his brothers there.

krustydoyle · 12-02-2021 3:59pm

Texans just cut JJ Watt

Kirk Van Houten · 12-02-2021 4:01pm

VillaMad wrote: »

JJ Watt released by the Texans. 3 time defensive player of the year.

Had one year left on his contract and by releasing him now, the Texans don't suffer any cap hit but surely they could have found a trade partner. The Steelers will surely be interested in him with having both his brothers there.

Only if he's interested in playing for the minimum. Steelers have no cap space at all.

boccy23 · 12-02-2021 4:07pm

Not to rain on his parade but with age and injuries, is he not done?

Best for him would be league veterans minimum I'd say.

12-02-2021 4:29pm

Steelers couldn't afford to take me on.

DeCosta will no doubt suss things out.

The_Honeybadger · 12-02-2021 4:38pm

boccy23 wrote: »

Not to rain on his parade but with age and injuries, is he not done?

Best for him would be league veterans minimum I'd say.

Definitely not finished but he might be best off going somewhere as part of a rotation rather than playing every down.

Indianapolis, Buffalo, Miami, Cleveland and a few others will probably all pick up the phone. I’m sure he would love to play with his brothers in Pittsburgh but it’s just not a need for them and they have no money anyway, and Derek may be looking for a new team as well depending on the final salary cap number

eagle eye · 12-02-2021 5:08pm

VillaMad wrote:

JJ Watt released by the Texans. 3 time defensive player of the year.

Had one year left on his contract and by releasing him now, the Texans don't suffer any cap hit but surely they could have found a trade partner. The Steelers will surely be interested in him with having both his brothers there.

Wouldn't surprise me one but to see him take a vet minimum deal with the Bucs or Chiefs to try get a ring.

Foxtrol · 12-02-2021 5:13pm

boccy23 wrote: »

Not to rain on his parade but with age and injuries, is he not done?

Best for him would be league veterans minimum I'd say.

That isn't what the data says. Despite seeing the highest double team rate out of all edge rushers he still wins at a rate well above average. Presuming he goes to a good defense I'd expect many people who have written him off to be very surprised at how well he'll perform - the players he has played alongside recently have been for the most part terrible.

https://twitter.com/SethWalder/status/1332509974132629505?s=20

Really hard to work out at this point where he ends up as he likely has a lot of different potential motivations - including, a last big pay day, having the best chance to win a ring, to play with his brothers, or to be close to his wife.

Every single team should be calling him to see what he is looking for and whether it is value and can be worked into the their cap situation.

el Fenomeno · 12-02-2021 8:01pm

I've always wanted to see how a team would even begin to try block both Watt and Donald. Won't happen, but it'd be a sight to see.

BonnieSituation · 12-02-2021 8:08pm

el Fenomeno wrote: »

I've always wanted to see how a team would even begin to try block both Watt and Donald. Won't happen, but it'd be a sight to see.

When it was announced, it was the first thing I suggested to the lads that he head to LAR. Would love to see that.

adrian522 · 12-02-2021 8:20pm

I think they are already $30m over the cap.

paulie21 · 18-02-2021 5:58pm

Wentz traded to the Colts

https://twitter.com/NFL/status/1362444658387939333?s=19

adrian522 · 18-02-2021 6:02pm

Decent enough trade for the Colts, didn't give up too much, I just don't think he's that good and I don't see them winning a superbowl with him.

18-02-2021 6:13pm

Absolute bargain for the colts even if the 2nd rounder pays out

Mr. Guappa · 18-02-2021 6:14pm

The 2022 2nd round pick becomes a 1st round pick if Wentz plays 70% of the snaps, or 70% and Colts make the playoffs.

Interesting to see how this works out. I'd probably lean towards Wentz being a flop in Indy, but nothing would surprise me.

VillaMad · 18-02-2021 6:22pm

He obviously isn't the same player he was in his early seasons in Philly, but he is still very much worth the punt for the Colts, especially since he will reunite with Frank Reich.

Elsewhere, the NFL has announced that the salary cap will be at least $180 million.

18-02-2021 6:24pm

VillaMad wrote: »

He doesn't look the same player he was in his early seasons in Philly, but he is still very much worth the punt for the Colts, especially since he will reunite with Frank Reich.

Plus the one year he was a disaster was amidst maby the oddest season in nfl history. In that offence I could see him being excelent

letowski · 18-02-2021 6:28pm

I think it was Chris Ballard that was the one to blink first to be honest.

The conditional 2022 2nd rounder is basically a 1st. Which is overpaying for Wentz. The Eagles shouldn't be getting a 1st for him (even if its in the 20s).

I guess we will see if we can reignite his career.

18-02-2021 6:49pm

letowski wrote: »

I think it was Chris Ballard that was the one to blink first to be honest.

The conditional 2022 2nd rounder is basically a 1st. Which is overpaying for Wentz. The Eagles shouldn't be getting a 1st for him (even if its in the 20s).

I guess we will see if we can reignite his career.

If he plays 75% of snaps or 70% and they make the playoffs theve gotten their money's worth out if the deal

Itssoeasy · 18-02-2021 8:00pm

Ivy Better Rumba wrote: »

Plus the one year he was a disaster was amidst maby the oddest season in nfl history. In that offence I could see him being excelent

Covid didn’t help the league as a whole with lack of an off season but come on other players didn’t fall off a cliff like he did. He needs to fix the off field issues he has because it won’t matter what offence he’s in if he doesn’t sort them and his clear on field issues. I was high on him when he first got drafted and that super bowl season had he not gotten injured he was in the MVP hunt. He’s not been fully fit since that season and the season just gone he was walking disaster.

Foxtrol · 18-02-2021 9:26pm

Ivy Better Rumba wrote: »

If he plays 75% of snaps or 70% and they make the playoffs theve gotten their money's worth out if the deal

Can't agree. There are plenty of average to poor QBs in the league that hit those numbers who are obviously not worth a 3rd and a future 1st.

Wentz himself was around those requirements this year and he was atrocious.

At this point it seems reasonable enough trade for both sides, as they are each running a decent risk of looking very foolish this time next year.

Offseason 2021 - Trades, Free Agency, QB Carousel

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