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Random Running Questions

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    #7892
    Omega28
    Registered Users Posts: 1,323 ✭✭✭Omega28


    I've been running 5km now and I can't get under 30 mins. My best time is 30:11. Is that ridiculously slow? Compared to others here I feel that's a snail's pace?

    Also, I wear two over sizes hoodies while jogging to hold my phone/keys. I doubt this would slow my pace that much?


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    #7893
    MY BAD
    Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭MY BAD


    No it's not ridiculously slow. Keep at it and learn to run slow while build the miles. You'll go under 30 and beyond in no time.


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    #7894
    Omega28
    Registered Users Posts: 1,323 ✭✭✭Omega28


    Any tips for conditioning my leg muscles for more miles?


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    #7895
    Slideways
    Registered Users Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭Slideways


    Omega28 wrote: »
    Any tips for conditioning my leg muscles for more miles?

    Yeah. Run more miles. Endurance is only built from running. Consistent and gradual increase in mileage is the key


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    #7896
    keane2097
    Registered Users Posts: 17,770 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Omega28 wrote: »
    I've been running 5km now and I can't get under 30 mins. My best time is 30:11. Is that ridiculously slow? Compared to others here I feel that's a snail's pace?

    Also, I wear two over sizes hoodies while jogging to hold my phone/keys. I doubt this would slow my pace that much?

    Why do you need two hoodies to hold keys and a phone? I can't imagine that being particularly helpful!

    I think a good few people here like these shorts as they have plenty of secure pockets. You put your phone in the one at your front waistband and you wouldn't even know it was there which is great. I keep my keys in the zipped pocket at the back.

    https://www.decathlon.ie/ie_en/men-s-trail-running-baggy-shorts-graph-en-s145971-2473358.html


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    #7897
    BeginnerRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭BeginnerRunner


    Does bodyglide / vaseline REALLY make a difference?

    Or is there a better option (other than skinnier legs)?

    Got some absolutely awful chub rub yesterday for the first time (...and busted a few pairs of pants along that line over the last month).

    ...I'm putting that down to my legs growing again from squats and deadlifts, before anyone asks.


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    #7898
    Slideways
    Registered Users Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭Slideways


    https://www.runningwarehouse.eu/Nathan_The_Zipster_Belt/descpage-NTZB-EN.html

    I use one of these for phone, gels and car key. Doesn’t budge or chafe


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    #7899
    RentDayBlues
    Registered Users Posts: 2,131 ✭✭✭RentDayBlues


    BeginnerRunner wrote: »
    Does bodyglide / vaseline REALLY make a difference?

    Or is there a better option (other than skinnier legs)?

    Got some absolutely awful chub rub yesterday for the first time (...and busted a few pairs of pants along that line over the last month).

    ...I'm putting that down to my legs growing again from squats and deadlifts, before anyone asks.

    Not for me - I resorted to using kinesiology tape on the main pressure points and that worked really well


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    #7900
    Slideways
    Registered Users Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭Slideways


    BeginnerRunner wrote: »
    Does bodyglide / vaseline REALLY make a difference?

    Or is there a better option (other than skinnier legs)?

    Got some absolutely awful chub rub yesterday for the first time (...and busted a few pairs of pants along that line over the last month).

    ...I'm putting that down to my legs growing again from squats and deadlifts, before anyone asks.

    Yeah. Bodyglide works for me. Only need it on the longer runs for where the bottom seam on the leg of my shorts rubs on my thighs. I’ve learned the hard way many many times


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    #7901
    pconn062
    Registered Users Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    BeginnerRunner wrote: »
    Does bodyglide / vaseline REALLY make a difference?

    Or is there a better option (other than skinnier legs)?

    Got some absolutely awful chub rub yesterday for the first time (...and busted a few pairs of pants along that line over the last month).

    ...I'm putting that down to my legs growing again from squats and deadlifts, before anyone asks.

    Buy a pair of compression shorts or half tights and wear them under your regular shorts.


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    #7902
    spc78
    Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭spc78


    Slideways wrote: »
    Anyone here heard of Kenyan Suicide run? A coach I had use to use it for a group smash, if done correctly you start to reel in the slower runners and those who cooked their goose early.

    Basically, 20 mins out at easy (6/10) pace. Turn at the 20 min mark and try to get back to the start in 15 mins.

    I’ve googled it since I left the group and not found any literature on it.

    It sounds like a good exercise in easy v's fast pacing - for anyone who has difficulty doing the above, its a clear indication they are far too 'one-paced' and their easy runs are not easy enough, hard runs not hard enough. An experienced runner would coast the above.


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    #7903
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    BeginnerRunner wrote: »
    Does bodyglide / vaseline REALLY make a difference?

    Or is there a better option (other than skinnier legs)?

    Got some absolutely awful chub rub yesterday for the first time (...and busted a few pairs of pants along that line over the last month).

    ...I'm putting that down to my legs growing again from squats and deadlifts, before anyone asks.


    I bought Bodyglide and used it for the first time for a full marathon 3 weeks ago. I tend to get raw at the groin from the inner lining of the shorts. I was a little sceptical as I expected it to be thicker (it's more like those roll on deodorants). Can’t fault the results- first time ever absolutely no chaffing whatsoever.


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    #7904
    wersal gummage
    Registered Users Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭wersal gummage


    Enduro wrote: »
    Beg to differ... if you're doing those times whilst lugging about 100kg, you've got tons of natural talent and huge untapped potential. You've got a lot of relatively straighforward gains in front of you if you choose to go for it.

    I guess when I say I'm not a runner, I'm comparing my times to family members who run, and previously ran, considerably faster, 5ks in 15.xx mins and 2.3x marathons etc.... So by that I mean, given I'm into my 40s now and carrying probably 30kg on those folk, and minus the 10 / 15 years running they'd been doing, I would never be a runner... Sure, compared to the average punter jogging up the road I'm probably doing just as well as some!

    Out of curiosity, what do you mean by straightforward gains? Losing weight, eating well, training well? I'd guess that's the basics? While I'm a heavy sod, I'm not really carrying much body fat and wouldn't be keen to lose weight really. Also with age, presumably I'd be well past any stage of life where I could hope to achieve much? Say I had some hidden, natural talent, what might be an achievable target say 12 months from now on 5k and 10k times? Currently around 21 and 45. Would breaking 20 mins for 5k and aiming for 40 mins for 10k be dreaming?

    Edit to add re times, I can run below 4min per km but only just and only for 2km and I'm bunched. Feel like if I did a lot of work on my fitness the 20mins 5k might be achievable but not anytime soon I feel


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    #7905
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,420 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    wersal gummage wrote: »
    I guess when I say I'm not a runner, I'm comparing my times to family members who run, and previously ran, considerably faster, 5ks in 15.xx mins and 2.3x marathons etc.... So by that I mean, given I'm into my 40s now and carrying probably 30kg on those folk, and minus the 10 / 15 years running they'd been doing, I would never be a runner... Sure, compared to the average punter jogging up the road I'm probably doing just as well as some!

    Out of curiosity, what do you mean by straightforward gains? Losing weight, eating well, training well? I'd guess that's the basics? While I'm a heavy sod, I'm not really carrying much body fat and wouldn't be keen to lose weight really. Also with age, presumably I'd be well past any stage of life where I could hope to achieve much? Say I had some hidden, natural talent, what might be an achievable target say 12 months from now on 5k and 10k times? Currently around 21 and 45. Would breaking 20 mins for 5k and aiming for 40 mins for 10k be dreaming?

    Edit to add re times, I can run below 4min per km but only just and only for 2km and I'm bunched. Feel like if I did a lot of work on my fitness the 20mins 5k might be achievable but not anytime soon I feel

    You sound like you are in very early 40s. Huge gains ahead if you take it seriously, which you seem to be well placed to do. Wouldn’t focus on numbers too much - just keep working and yes, lost the weight if you want to post good performances based on your (still relatively young) age.


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    #7906
    Huzzah!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Huzzah!


    wersal gummage wrote: »
    I guess when I say I'm not a runner, I'm comparing my times to family members who run, and previously ran, considerably faster, 5ks in 15.xx mins and 2.3x marathons etc.... So by that I mean, given I'm into my 40s now and carrying probably 30kg on those folk, and minus the 10 / 15 years running they'd been doing, I would never be a runner... Sure, compared to the average punter jogging up the road I'm probably doing just as well as some!

    Whether you're a runner or not has nothing to do with how fast you are.


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    #7907
    joe35
    Registered Users Posts: 446 ✭✭joe35


    How do people coach athletes who lean forward from the waist when running. Noticed this with a few juvenile athletes in our club.

    Apart from telling them to run tall and with good posture, are there any specific drills they could do.

    Finding this trait very difficult to correct. Would love to hear other people's thoughts?? TIA


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    #7908
    Ceepo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭Ceepo


    joe35 wrote: »
    How do people coach athletes who lean forward from the waist when running. Noticed this with a few juvenile athletes in our club.

    Apart from telling them to run tall and with good posture, are there any specific drills they could do.

    Finding this trait very difficult to correct. Would love to hear other people's thoughts?? TIA

    Leaning froward usually a compensation and is common especially with juveniles.

    Usually this is an issue due to muscle strength or muscle endurance.

    Cueing them to run tall or with good posture, whike on the face if it might seem to be a good idea, but for the most part, they dont know that they are leaning forward.
    Running tall with good posture is also subjective, are you talking Michael Johnson tall?

    My advice woukd be to introduce some hill work, if your not doing so already. But only to the point where you see a break down on form.
    This is also true for running drills. Doing smaller reps and more set might see better results.

    Tbh I wouldn't get to hung up on correcting it juvenile athletes


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    #7909
    BeepBeep67
    Registered Users Posts: 8,079 ✭✭✭BeepBeep67


    Ceepo wrote: »
    Leaning froward usually a compensation and is common especially with juveniles.

    Usually this is an issue due to muscle strength or muscle endurance.

    Cueing them to run tall or with good posture, whike on the face if it might seem to be a good idea, but for the most part, they dont know that they are leaning forward.
    Running tall with good posture is also subjective, are you talking Michael Johnson tall?

    My advice woukd be to introduce some hill work, if your not doing so already. But only to the point where you see a break down on form.
    This is also true for running drills. Doing smaller reps and more set might see better results.

    Tbh I wouldn't get to hung up on correcting it juvenile athletes

    Agree with this, how you run is an output so focusing on the inputs will help address this over time. Hills and drills, mobility work and some specific strengthening could be introduced formally and informally.


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    #7910
    Sunny Dayz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Sunny Dayz


    joe35 wrote: »
    How do people coach athletes who lean forward from the waist when running. Noticed this with a few juvenile athletes in our club.

    Apart from telling them to run tall and with good posture, are there any specific drills they could do.

    Finding this trait very difficult to correct. Would love to hear other people's thoughts?? TIA

    Include a few drills that require them to stand tall - high knees, butt kicks, A skips, B skips etc. Hill work is also good for that and is good for putting core work into practice.
    I know myself that I don't have great posture when I run and I put it down to a weak core - I work at a desk all day. Core work makes a difference but I'm not always great at sticking to it. Kids are at a school desk all day then then after that spend time hunched over a phone, and ipad, an xbox controller etc. Try and incorporation a bit of core work into your session if you can towards the end: eg planks, russian twists, bicycle crunches, leg raises, lunges, etc. Few back stretches might not go astray either for growing kids.


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    #7911
    joe35
    Registered Users Posts: 446 ✭✭joe35


    Thanks for the replies folks, would do all of the above. Wouldn't get hill work in as often as we like as training is on a flat field. Do hills at the weekend but never have as many turn up on a Sunday.

    I would put a lot of emphasis on form during training. Just wondering if I was missing something. Thanks


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    #7912
    BeginnerRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭BeginnerRunner


    I'm starting to think 2021 might be the year of the marathon for me....

    I've been reading The Hanson Marathon Method book and it seems persuasive.

    Honestly, I'd say I'd take the "just finish" approach since I'm still so new to the game.

    Anyone done it? Anything I should know?

    Is there a better option?

    (...ideally I want something very low stress emotionally - don't mind devoting time to running, but for now I'd like it not to be absolutely punishing)


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    #7913
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    There's a thread on here, a few people have followed it. I understand the plan to be tough enough, based around cumulative fatigue, as a lot of marathon plans are.

    As with anything you need to buy into it and follow the plan in order to have success with it. A few people from here have had good success with it.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=110230843


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    #7914
    OOnegative
    Registered Users Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    BeginnerRunner wrote: »
    I'm starting to think 2021 might be the year of the marathon for me....

    I've been reading The Hanson Marathon Method book and it seems persuasive.

    Honestly, I'd say I'd take the "just finish" approach since I'm still so new to the game.

    Anyone done it? Anything I should know?

    Is there a better option?

    (...ideally I want something very low stress emotionally - don't mind devoting time to running, but for now I'd like it not to be absolutely punishing)

    I’d say leave any marathon thoughts until 2022, you started a log here just over a month ago, get 12 months of consistent training and miles into the legs before considering a marathon.


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    #7915
    Huzzah!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Huzzah!


    BeginnerRunner wrote: »
    I'm starting to think 2021 might be the year of the marathon for me....

    I've been reading The Hanson Marathon Method book and it seems persuasive.

    Honestly, I'd say I'd take the "just finish" approach since I'm still so new to the game.

    Anyone done it? Anything I should know?

    Is there a better option?

    (...ideally I want something very low stress emotionally - don't mind devoting time to running, but for now I'd like it not to be absolutely punishing)

    I agree with OONeg, the more miles you have in your legs, the better your marathon experience would be.

    I'm not sure re the Just Finish plan and I say this as a Hanson fan girl. Is it six days a week, all easy running with your long run topping out at 16 miles? I'm not really sure how the method "works" in that set up.

    Anyway, when you do decide to run your first, I would fully recommend joining the DCM novices thread. There are a couple of suggested plans. If you've built your mileage adequately, the Boards plan could be of interest:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057978706


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    #7916
    TFBubendorfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,340 ✭✭✭TFBubendorfer


    OOnegative wrote: »
    I’d say leave any marathon thoughts until 2022, you started a log here just over a month ago, get 12 months of consistent training and miles into the legs before considering a marathon.

    That's the standard advice, run for at least one year before attempting a marathon.

    On the other hand, my first ever race was a marathon, exactly how you're not supposed to do it and I never regretted doing things that way


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    #7917
    OOnegative
    Registered Users Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    TFBubendorfer wrote: »
    That's the standard advice, run for at least one year before attempting a marathon.

    On the other hand, my first ever race was a marathon, exactly how you're not supposed to do it and I never regretted doing things that way

    True and plenty more like yourself have done the same, I was running 6 years before I eventually made it to the start line of a marathon because of injury/ bad training. I rushed trying to do my first one instead of getting consistent miles into my legs. If I could go back I would follow the advice I gave.

    But we’re all different, you had no problems going straight into running one, possible the OP maybe wired the same way.


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    #7918
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    BeginnerRunner wrote: »
    I'm starting to think 2021 might be the year of the marathon for me....

    I've been reading The Hanson Marathon Method book and it seems persuasive.

    Honestly, I'd say I'd take the "just finish" approach since I'm still so new to the game.

    Anyone done it? Anything I should know?

    Is there a better option?

    (...ideally I want something very low stress emotionally - don't mind devoting time to running, but for now I'd like it not to be absolutely punishing)


    Sorry if I missed it but what distances/times are you currently running?


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    #7919
    BeginnerRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭BeginnerRunner


    TFBubendorfer wrote: »
    That's the standard advice, run for at least one year before attempting a marathon.

    On the other hand, my first ever race was a marathon, exactly how you're not supposed to do it and I never regretted doing things that way

    Sorry I should clarify and say I don't really care about running a marathon, but would like to follow some kind of longer distance plan.

    Buuuuut they do also mention in the hanson book the idea of a gradual ramp from 5k to 10, to half to full.


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    #7920
    BeginnerRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭BeginnerRunner


    partyguinness wrote: »
    Sorry if I missed it but what distances/times are you currently running?

    Most recent long run was 18km @ 5m 49s/km and around 75% avg HR.

    I'm only about 8 weeks into structured training and clocking up around 35-40km/week across 4/5 runs.

    I guess to reframe my Q... if something like the just finish hanson plan isn't appropriate, what would be an appropriate way to get more miles into my legs?

    I like the idea of a structured approach to something which is why I was suggesting a marathon training plan.


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    #7921
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    BeginnerRunner wrote: »
    Most recent long run was 18km @ 5m 49s/km and around 75% avg HR.

    I'm only about 8 weeks into structured training and clocking up around 35-40km/week across 4/5 runs.

    I guess to reframe my Q... if something like the just finish hanson plan isn't appropriate, what would be an appropriate way to get more miles into my legs?

    I like the idea of a structured approach to something which is why I was suggesting a marathon training plan.

    You said that you want to run longer but not necessarily run a marathon?

    I think the first thing to do is to decide on definite goals. If you decide on a plan then what? You may well find that without definite goals that it becomes quite aimless and motivation may quickly vanish.

    You are not far off HM. In fact a few weeks more around the 18-20km you are more than ready for a HM. Let's say you run a HM in late January. That would give you a good 9 months to build up to an October marathon with say a couple of 20 milers (32km) thrown in. That is more than doable if you commit.

    It comes down to what you want to achieve. As mentioned above the more miles you do the better the experience on the day and maybe wait for 2022. Personally and this is purely a personal choice I would just go for it. No pressure and just see it as a learning experience. Plenty of more opportunities afterwards to refine your targets and training.

    You have come along way in just 8 weeks. Small part of me thinks almost too quickly but if it is working then great.

    I have no experience of the Hanson Plan and there are far wiser heads on here to lean on. Looking at the Beginner's plan I do wonder about the 16miler being the longest. Marathons are all about time on your feet and getting used to sensation mentally and physically of say 4-5-even 6 hours.

    Just my personal take and I am not a coach or trainer I would have at least two 20 milers in there rather than 16m (x3). I had two 37km (23mils) runs during October and around the 95-100km weekly peak but it was my 5th and I had a specific time in mind with a remote professional coach setting my weekly schedule- mostly long intervals well above threshold and my God they hurt.

    Getting off the fence- follow Hanson but replace two of the 16milers with two 20milers. Just my two cents.

    Do you have anyone to run with? Long distance training on your own for a first time marathon will be tough going.


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