I just got offer council house from hell !

Graces7 · 19-02-2011 11:43am

man.about.town wrote: »

i have no sympathy what so ever, its this kinda lark that has our country the way it is.. too many hand outs. our crippling benefit entitlements are a joke. we have the highest rent allowance, social welfare, child benefits in europe etc... and still all the people who benefit from these cry about how they get offered a perfectly good house but the neighbours arent nice ... UNF$%KING BELIEVABLE

Would YOU live there? No? Then have some sense, please.

Smiling wondering how long you would actually last there!!!

I for one am sick of being referred to as "scum" by eg landlords on this board because SHOCK HORROR! I need Rent Allowance AS WELL as a pension!
I mean HOW DARE I! Seek a roof over my old head!!

NB I am a disabled pensioner; been on disability most of my life through no fault of mine .... And am deeply thankful for a system that lets me live independently. When I was first ill, I went through a hell of guilt about taking benefits. My mother assured me that it was her taxes that were paying for it.. I get a small pension fron the UK and SHOCK HORROR! am entitled to RA here AND solid fuel allowance etc. The long delays in RA applications mean that I have around E10 a week for food etc; I live in bed to try to keep warm. That has been so all winter long. Solid Fuel is E20 a week; a bag of coal is between 14 and 17; go figure as they say.

Anyone who thinks these allowances are generous needs to live on them; they are adequate and fine if you don';t seek a way of life that is not meagre.

What please is your suggestion for an alternative? That we go back to the workhouse system? Or shall we expect old ones to lie down in ditches and die there?

Actually, the workhouse system would cost more as the 'workers" demand high wages.:eek:

OP: God reward you for having standards for your children. Please, do as the post advises and speak with the council; you know it might be that that house is available because no one else will take it either. Mpw there is a thought!!

The_Conductor · 19-02-2011 11:46am

Trophywife wrote: »

just cos your wife's an obese swine...;)

And I'm a working professional, who pays tax and contributes to this country in a positive manner so I'm more than entitled to have my say in how my tax dollars should be spent. And after this election I pray that they reduce social welfare because its a massive disincentive for people to get back to work. Reducing it is the only way forward.

2 week ban for personal abuse.
If you intend to post in this forum after the elapse of your ban- ensure you read the forum charter before you do so. Personal abuse of any nature will not be tolerated, period. If you disagree with what someone posts- refute the post without attacking the poster.

Regards,

SMcCarrick

Kinetic^ · 19-02-2011 11:49am

Graces7 wrote: »

Anyone who thinks these allowances are generous needs to live on them

I'm sorry but free rent is not generous?

barbs84 · 19-02-2011 11:54am

why should u feel ur entitled to turn down a house tax payers are paying for its people working that have to pay for their own houses so if u want to be fussy get a job come of the council list and buy a house u want if not take what ur offered

The_Conductor · 19-02-2011 12:00pm

Everyone- I am only going to say this once......
Read the forum charter if you intend to post in this forum.
Its a simple set of rules.

In brief: If you disagree with what someone else posts- refute the post without attacking the poster. Its not difficult to remain civil towards one another- even when you have diametrically opposing viewpoints, and indeed when people are able to debate with one another from opposing viewpoints, in general we educate each other.

Remain civil towards one another- or you will have a posting holiday from this forum.

Regards,

SMcCarrick

MRLAZY · 19-02-2011 12:03pm

What are ye all talking about. I know plenty of people who are living in council houses and are working aswell, paying tax and paying rent to the council.

Graces7 · 19-02-2011 12:03pm

Kinetic^ wrote: »

I'm sorry but free rent is not generous?

?? Who is talking re "free rent"? it might help you to be fair to get your facts straight..

And this IS a welfare state so there should be no such emotive word as "generous" used in this context. That shows the attitude so prevalent here.

Long term residential care would cost the country a lot more.

Rent Allowance does not pay the whole rent; it makes up what is lacking in other benefits so that people can have a roof over their heads and still eat and keep warm. To avoid what I have been going through this winter in fact.
Old age and disabled deaths through hypothermia in Ireland are a sheer disgrace.

Graces7 · 19-02-2011 12:06pm

man.about.town wrote: »

thats why i have no sympathy, bought my place in late '06 for 400k and struggle to pay it. the lady opposite me is getting rent allowance because she is a single mother with 3 kids. she does nothing but sit in her house and go to the shops. in fairness, she nice and her kids are grand but every so often she has a party and its full of knackers (the only way i can describe them). pisses me off

btw, our situation is nothing like the OP

Small minded begrudgery is an Irish curse. This post speaks volumes re the poster.

Dudess · 19-02-2011 1:25pm

barbs84 wrote: »

why should u feel ur entitled to turn down a house tax payers are paying for its people working that have to pay for their own houses so if u want to be fussy get a job come of the council list and buy a house u want if not take what ur offered

A. You don't know whether the OP doesn't have a job.
B. Nobody should have to live in close proximity to people who make life difficult for those around them.
Attitude here seems to be "Those inferior specimens who are housed by the council deserve to put up with anti social behaviour."
Horrible, shameful views - bigoted snobbery. Someone here bought a house at 21? No they didn't - they got it from the folks. You should take a long look at yourselves - try putting yourselves in the shoes of people from less privileged circumstances. Not everyone gets the same breaks - it's really not difficult to work out.
And I'd very much doubt you'd say that awful stuff to people whom you know come from a council estate. I'd absolutely love it if you mouthed it off to someone ambitious and hard-working (and therefore they're "safe" - after all, nobody like that could come from a council estate) and it turns out they're from one of Ireland's hardest estates.

Do you honestly think every person living in a council property does so by choice, including in the tough-as-nails areas? Do you honestly think it's a luxury? If it is, why not live in one yourselves? And do you honestly think every person living in a council property lacks ambition? What about those council tenants who eventually buy the properties off the council?
The answer to the closed questions above, unless you're stupid, is obviously no. You just enjoy looking down on people.
What I don't like "my" taxes paying for is badly maintained properties and estates that would be deemed a serious breach by a private landlord and could land them in a fair bit of trouble.
You can choose to view the welfare state as a system that "encourages sponging" bla bla bla... or a system that ensures some bit of social equality. If you view it as the former, it kinda casts you in a fairly selfish light to be honest. Of course middle-class people (and I'm one - and I'm not a reverse snob either, I got over the chip on my shoulder about being middle-class by 19) get on well in terms of jobs, education etc - the tools are there for them from the day they're born.

And again, more of the "free" house bollocks... They're. Not. Free.

Hank_Jones · 19-02-2011 1:28pm

Trophywife wrote: »

I got a mortgage five years ago. I'm twenty six now and put myself through college for 6 years to get what I have now. Its called hard work and have ambition in life. Age has nothing to do with it. I'd rather be getting a mortage and buying a house now than at the peak five years ago. I didn't go having kids when I knew I couldn't support them and then expect for the state to pay for them and house them. Good job there's more people like me, than there is people having kids when they can't support them cos the country would be in even more of a mess then!!

I'm not a snob. People lost jobs and its terrible...wasn't they're fault but it happened and they need to get through it. The real snobbery comes from people who are claiming social welfare and think they're too good to work in a minimum wage job. And there's a hell of a lot of that going on.

This sounds very off to me, 26 gone through six years of college (age 18-24 I'm guessing), got a mortgage (aged 21, still in college, for another 3 years).

You clearly don't live in the real world, unless your part time job in college was as an investment banker...

Most likely being bankrolled for everything, wouldn't want to say any more and risk a ban.

Collie D · 19-02-2011 1:36pm

All those years paying rent to the council and it turns out I could have got it for free. I feel shafted, maybe it's because I'm a scummy freeloader without an education or a job. :rolleyes:

The snobbery in this thread stinks. Nice to see a few sensible opinions amongst the right wing "let them starve" vitriol.

Dudess · 19-02-2011 1:54pm

Seems to be "Get stuff handed to you by Mummy and Doddy" and you're not a sponge - in fact you're ambitious. "Get stuff handed to you by the state" (even though it's not just "handed" to people by the state) and you're a sponge and could not possibly be hard-working or ambitious.

Load of hate-filled ****e.

Treehouse72 · 19-02-2011 2:01pm

The bloody public sector need their wages cut and thousands need sack....

....whoops, sorry, wrong thread.

Carry on.

Dudess · 19-02-2011 2:05pm

man.about.town wrote: »

i have no sympathy what so ever, its this kinda lark that has our country the way it is.. too many hand outs. our crippling benefit entitlements are a joke. we have the highest rent allowance, social welfare, child benefits in europe etc... and still all the people who benefit from these cry about how they get offered a perfectly good house but the neighbours arent nice ... UNF$%KING BELIEVABLE

You know perfectly well there is a lot more to it than "the neighbours aren't nice". As Grace asked, would YOU be happy to live next door to a woman (and especially her partner) like the one described in the OP?

If you say you would, you're lying.

Btw, the reason benefits are so high is because the cost of living is so high.

clouds · 19-02-2011 2:15pm

Trophywife wrote: »

All I know is .....

Nuff said.

I hope OP manages to catch the bits of good advice between all the poor people are scum nonsense.
If your income is below e40,000 a year your kids don't deserve protection from criminals. Is that clear to all of ye.

Darlughda · 19-02-2011 2:30pm

Its just vile to see some of the posts on this thread with their garbage of 'generous benefits' 'handouts' and 'free housing'.

I am trying really, really hard not to earn any more little red infractions for insulting and personally abusing other posters. So, I have to stop here.:mad:

Well done to Dudess, Grace and the other posters who have taken the time and level headed thinking to challenge this sort of disgusting prejudice.

hdowney · 19-02-2011 2:39pm

Trophywife wrote: »

All I know is that the current system is an absolute disaster. The country can't sustain the level of expenditure on social welfare. So if something isn't working it needs to be changed. What do you suggest then?

My point was that minimum wage has been reduced, private sector salaries have been reduced dramatically, so in turn shouldn't social welfare be reduced...

I work full time and have been married a couple of years. I'd love to start a family but I have to hold off because I can't afford to and I wouldn't want my family to have to struggle money wise. There's a baby boom at the moment and most of the people I know having children are on social welfare, and in turn tax payers have to pay this extra expense. The system encourages girls to leave school and get pregnant as they will be well looked after by the state. How can that be right.

eh where have you been??? social welfare was reduced in the last budget. the cost of living hasn't gotten any lower but still social welfare was reduced. you seem a very hate filled person, who takes great pleasure in making others out to be the bad guy. i wonder why.

i don't disagree that SOME people on social welfare are what can be called spongers. they really don't want to make an effort. they are happy to take money for nothing. but there are a LOT of people who are on social through no fault of their own. people made redundant through the recession (thanks bankers) who are applying for every job possible to get off social but no such luck so far. and you tar these people with the same brush.

why shouldn't the op want to raise her children in a nice environment. just because she has to take social housing does not mean she should be forced to live next to scum. if the scum moved next to you (after all drug dealers make good money) you would be up in arms within seconds. you are basically saying because she is taking council housing she should have no rights. there is a european charter on human rights for heavens sake. are you saying she is not entitled to that?

and to the people who say that council housing is free rent, or only a few bob. that is the biggest joke i have heard. the dole is €188 per week and i know people who are paying like 50 quid or more for their council housing out of this €188. they still have all the other bills like heating, electric, food, waste disposal etc to pay.

the €188 per week is a severe struggle for many people. people who are trying to better themselves. but there are times when you cannot afford to do things that will help better yourself because all the bills have come down on you and you have next to nothing left from your weeks money. so you wonder why some social welfare recipients sit at home all day??? They CANNOT AFFORD to go anywhere or do anything. most things cost money in this country these days and if you can barely afford to feed yourself you can hardly afford to go and do things.

have a bit of common sense and cop on people. the celtic tiger boom was nice and all, but kitty is dead and we are back to being a poor begging country like we were once before. just cos we were not around last time, doesn't mean we can pretend like this is the first time it has happened.

and to all those people bitching who are still cushy in their jobs. it could be you tomorrow or the next day, and you wouldn't want us ripping you a new one when you meekly come crawling into the dole hall to sign on would you???!!!??

Dudess · 19-02-2011 2:45pm

People who have always had an easy time of it complaining about "sponges" make me laugh. It's people who have to live next door to them that are the ones who actually have to put up with real sh1t from them. But of course they deserve it, because they're also sponges...

Wouldn't be surpised if the same people looking down on the OP also occupied the "anyone who got a mortgage in recent years is an idiot" camp.

phasers · 19-02-2011 2:49pm

This thread is shocking, it really is. The OP is concerned for her family's welfare, and rather than offer advice a group of ill-informed keyboard warriors decide to come in and belittle her without knowing her circumstances in the least!? shame on you all.

OP, one option (probably more of a last resort but something to keep in mind) if you do end up taking the house is to do a "swap" with someone in another coincil house. There are usually ads in local papers or maybe online. First thing to do though is to speak to the people in charge of your housing situation and voice your concerns. They would know the system much better than most people here.

clouds · 19-02-2011 2:52pm

You know i can understand right wing viewpoints, it's a legitimate political perspective. But I cannot understand all this handrubbing gleeful scorn about someone who has f' all to their name. Or the total lack of intelligence that just equates having f' all with being morally lacking. It's both bad minded and weak minded.

Squirm · 19-02-2011 3:17pm

A previous posted made a very valid comment regarding 'hand outs'.

I know very few people who manage to get on to the property ladder without a 'hand out' from their families.

I would be interested to hear if Trophywife managed to do so (at 21 and while still in college) without any extra help. I assume, quite rationally, that she did not.

Many people get to live at home while enjoying the luxury of thrd level education. They get thrown a few euro here and there when they are short on cash. They can pop home if they need a good feed or to do some laundry or to borrow the family car. Etc etc etc.

Other people are very far from being that lucky. They are not permitted or not safe living in their family home, often before they have even reached adulthood. They do not have parents who will help them out with money here and there, give them deposits for houses or contribute towards same, feed them when they drop in hungry. Everyone needs help from someone.Very few people manage to succeed in life without a helping hand.

To every person who posted on this thread spouting the same ignorant and uninformed (and quite frankly boring) nonsense about 'scroungers' and people being lazy and having no ambition and about their precious tax dollars going to help THE LESS FORTUNATE (- DEAR GOD NOOOOO, DON'T HELP THEM!!!): did you receive help from mommy and daddy? Lucky you. About time you pay it forward I should think, rather than abusing those who received and receive their assistance elsewhere (yep, off the State).

tricky D · 19-02-2011 3:17pm

OP do yourself a favour. Do not move into this house. I've ended up in a similar situation before. The stress and hassle will eat you and your children up. Be patient and something satisfactory hopefully will come up.

To address the good old social welfare bashing. A few points:

'It's my taxes. Spongers don't pay tax.' Wrong, VAT for starters, and plenty of it.
'I studied hard and put myself through college.' So taxpayers subsidised your fees massively.
'I worked hard for my house.' So you get mortgage relief (among other things) which is subsidised by what? Taxes. If you're also part of the Celtic Tiger property fiasco, you've also done your bit to lug at least an extra €10k of debt onto every person in this state.
'Get a job.' It's really that easy with almost half a million unemployed. Perhaps they all could become magicians.
Ever lived near a scumbag thieving smackhead. It's a totally stressful nightmare.
Ever actually lived on the dole, I have in a previous recession, and it's not fun at all.
'So many spongers are on the fiddle.' Classic tarring with a wide brush. Most are decent honest people trying to get by.
As is, there's already far too many children living below the poverty line in this great little nation of ours.

FYI basic dole has been reduced by over 10% in the last 14/15 months.

Dudess · 19-02-2011 3:25pm

Oh yeah, good point about college fees. There's all this "Rich people shouldn't be discriminated against" rhetoric... no probs with the auld taxes being used to fund another then, eh...?

And no probs with the state subsidy of private schools either.

Seems pretty spongey to me... :pac:

MagicMarker · 19-02-2011 3:32pm

Trophywife wrote: »

I got a mortgage five years ago. I'm twenty six now and put myself through college for 6 years to get what I have now. Its called hard work and have ambition in life. Age has nothing to do with it. I'd rather be getting a mortage and buying a house now than at the peak five years ago. I didn't go having kids when I knew I couldn't support them and then expect for the state to pay for them and house them. Good job there's more people like me, than there is people having kids when they can't support them cos the country would be in even more of a mess then!!

I'm not a snob. People lost jobs and its terrible...wasn't they're fault but it happened and they need to get through it. The real snobbery comes from people who are claiming social welfare and think they're too good to work in a minimum wage job. And there's a hell of a lot of that going on.

lol, you're 26 and your mortgage is worth more than your house. Well done.

I know of almost 30 people who were made redundant yesterday, a few of them were where you are now, now they've no income to pay their mortgages.

Circumstances change, lets hope it doesn't happen to you eh?

Dudess · 19-02-2011 3:46pm

Where are all the snobs gone? Thread has gotten a lot less ugly today anyway thanks to a few peeps who have restored my faith in humanity and the ability to actually think.

hdowney · 19-02-2011 4:53pm

the snobs got kicked off for their language/personal attacks on ppls!!!! the average person isn't doing that so....

mikom · 19-02-2011 5:00pm

SUZY316 wrote: »

I just got offer council house from hell !

phasers wrote: »

if you do end up taking the house is to do a "swap" with someone in another coincil house.

I'm interested.
signed B. Eelzebub

danbohan · 19-02-2011 5:05pm

clouds wrote: »

The likes of you Eric Cartman, gummy and panda should be ashamed of yourself. Do yis feel like real men?

OP if I could help, I would. Sympathies though, I hope you and your kids don't have to live beside drug dealing scumbags.

of course they dont , they could get a job / income provide for their own house in an area they might like
until then , beggars cant be choosers!

John Mason · 19-02-2011 5:06pm

OMG i am horrified by this thread - if this is what the Celtic tiger has done to us - i am glad it long gone and buried and i pray for some of the people on here that they never loads their jobs.

The OP should not be expected to live beside animals just because it is council housing, everyone has a right to a roof over their heads and peaceful life.

to all the people whining that they paid x amount for their house 6 years ago and now are surrounded by council tenants - you know what tough, no one held a gun to your head and said you have to buy a house now or else i will kill you and you family. some of us had a bit of sense and refuse to pay over the odds for houses.

i bought my house 6 years ago, so what - oh yeah and guess what i grew up on a council estate, do you know why ? in the 70's no one had a penny, you couldnt get a mortgage - does that make my parents bad people with no work ethics? both my parents worked and do work.

i also put myself through college - twice, and i am in a nice permanent job but if and when Fine Gael get in, i will be on the dole queue and it makes me sick to think that i will have people like some of the posters here judging me.

you should all be ashamed of yourselves - where is your humanity?

OP, GO TO WATERFORD COUNCIL EXPLAIN THE SITUATION AND SEE WHAT THEY SAY

clouds · 19-02-2011 5:14pm

danbohan wrote: »

of course they dont , they could get a job / income provide for their own house in an area they might like
until then , beggars cant be choosers!

and again dan just for you :rolleyes:

And just like that <kisses fingertips> it was done

mikemac · 19-02-2011 5:19pm

SUZY316 wrote: »

a single mother/druggie who has wild partys with her 4 kids there plus she has her boyfriend living on the sly with her

If you have evidence of fraud then report it, typing it here will get lots of outrage but no results

Maybe you can take the house and a later date apply for a transfer/swop?

Dudess · 19-02-2011 5:36pm

danbohan wrote: »

of course they dont , they could get a job / income provide for their own house in an area they might like
until then , beggars cant be choosers!

It's really as black and white for you as the OP deciding "Right, I won't bother working and I'll apply for a council house" (despite you knowing very little about her, including no proof she or her partner doesn't work) and the council saying "You want a council house? Here ya go!" isn't it? Bless your simplistic view of the world...

Btw, where does this "People in council housing automatically don't work" sh1t come from? Funny, I know plenty of people housed by a local authority who work - some more than one job.

"Beggars can't be choosers" - what a horribly stuck-up phrase. Yep, the people living in estates where a tiny element is making the majority's lives a misery know that only too well...

QuiteInterestin · 19-02-2011 6:19pm

SUZY316 wrote: »

Hello i'm a 33 year old women settled the my partner and 3 kids in waterford, today we got a letter from the council saying we were offered a house , we were delighted until we found out the neighbors:eek:. a single mother/druggie who has wild partys with her 4 kids there plus she has her boyfriend living on the sly with her Who is a career criminal ,No joking this man is scum drug dealer convicted suspect in several shootings and got with stolen guns after breaking into a farmers house . this man is no stranger to jail .:(

Hi OP, won't get into my opinions on social housing etc as thats not why you started this thread. First off, congrats on the house offer. I'm guessing you've probably being waiting a long time to be allocated a house so you probably shouldn't pass it up too quick.

If you know exactly which house you are being allocated, it might be a good idea to call over to the house/area a few times at different times of the day/week to get an idea of what living in the house will be like and what the goings on next door will be (even tonight, a Saturday night, might be a good indication of what these wild parties are likely to entail). Maybe knock on a few neighbours doors and ask what its like to live in the area (maybe the neighbours will be able to give you a contact number for the people who just moved out of the house, if you could speak to them, they'd be your best bet to get honest info as to what living next door to the potential 'neighbours from hell' will be like).

If you're happy to move into the house based on the info you get from this, thats great. But if other neighbours confirm your worries about the house, then contact Waterford council and tell them your concerns. Let them know that its not just hear'say thats put you off this house, but that you've actually researched the house/area. If, as a previous poster says, you are entitled to turn down 3 offers, then you should be ok, since you have explained your reasons for declining. Good luck with it

randylonghorn · 19-02-2011 8:15pm

man.about.town wrote: »

.... and still all the people who benefit from these cry about how they get offered a perfectly good house but the neighbours arent nice ... UNF$%KING BELIEVABLE

Aren't nice? Aren't NICE?!!

SUZY316 wrote: »

... a single mother/druggie who has wild partys with her 4 kids there plus she has her boyfriend living on the sly with her Who is a career criminal ,No joking this man is scum drug dealer convicted suspect in several shootings and got with stolen guns after breaking into a farmers house . this man is no stranger to jail .:(

Man.about.town, if this is your definition of "not nice", I'd love to hear *your* definition of neighbours from hell!!

man.about.town wrote: »

...bought my place in late '06 for 400k and struggle to pay it ...

I have to ask ... why did you?

Did you never stop to think?

Did you actually believe the hype that our gombeen government were spouting about how the cyclical nature of housing markets which is true for the rest of the world would somehow forget to apply in Ireland?

My father left school at 15 (he was lucky enough to be offered an apprenticeship, and in those days jobs / apprenticeships were like gold-dust, and you certainly didn't turn them down). He's an intelligent man, but obviously one without much formal education. HE could see the bust coming a mile off (though I'll admit he didn't expect it to hit so hard, none of us did, we didn't have all the information available to us that we have now). His oft-repeated comment during the height of the boom was "you can't export houses!".

Why could our bright young people not see it? ... the majority of whom have at least full secondary education, and many of whom are graduates? (For that matter, why could our economists, bankers and politicians not see it? Because it suited their pockets to be blind, that's why!)

Don't get me wrong, I actually have sympathy for those caught in the trap you're in. But I sometimes can't help wondering if they checked their brains at the door when they went into the estate agents!

hdowney wrote: »

have a bit of common sense and cop on people. the celtic tiger boom was nice and all, but kitty is dead and we are back to being a poor begging country like we were once before. just cos we were not around last time, doesn't mean we can pretend like this is the first time it has happened

Unfortunately, some of us were around.

And many of us viewed the Celtic Diseased Kitten with a great deal of cynicism.

And we watched the rise of the over-indulged RossOCK and Sorcha generation with even more cynicism, and hoped that they wouldn't land TOO heavily on their arse when the bubble burst.

Unfortunately, they are landing even more heavily than even the more cynical of us predicted.

irishbird wrote: »

OMG i am horrified by this thread - if this is what the Celtic tiger has done to us - i am glad it long gone and buried ...

It's exactly what it has done to us, irishbird, and the more I hear the kind of sentiment expressed by some in this thread, the more I'm inclined to agree with you, saddened as I am to think that we are back to the days when we are educating our young people just to export them.

nix84 · 19-02-2011 8:41pm

randylonghorn wrote: »

Aren't nice? Aren't NICE?!!

Man.about.town, if this is your definition of "not nice", I'd love to hear *your* definition of neighbours from hell!!

I have to ask ... why did you?

Did you never stop to think?

Did you actually believe the hype that our gombeen government were spouting about how the cyclical nature of housing markets which is true for the rest of the world would somehow forget to apply in Ireland?

My father left school at 15 (he was lucky enough to be offered an apprenticeship, and in those days jobs / apprenticeships were like gold-dust, and you certainly didn't turn them down). He's an intelligent man, but obviously one without much formal education. HE could see the bust coming a mile off (though I'll admit he didn't expect it to hit so hard, none of us did, we didn't have all the information available to us that we have now). His oft-repeated comment during the height of the boom was "you can't export houses!".

Why could our bright young people not see it? ... the majority of whom have at least full secondary education, and many of whom are graduates? (For that matter, why could our economists, bankers and politicians not see it? Because it suited their pockets to be blind, that's why!)

Don't get me wrong, I actually have sympathy for those caught in the trap you're in. But I sometimes can't help wondering if they checked their brains at the door when they went into the estate agents!

Unfortunately, some of us were around.

And many of us viewed the Celtic Diseased Kitten with a great deal of cynicism.

And we watched the rise of the over-indulged RossOCK and Sorcha generation with even more cynicism, and hoped that they wouldn't land TOO heavily on their arse when the bubble burst.

Unfortunately, they are landing even more heavily than even the more cynical of us predicted.

It's exactly what it has done to us, irishbird, and the more I hear the kind of sentiment expressed by some in this thread, the more I'm inclined to agree with you, saddened as I am to think that we are back to the days when we are educating our young people just to export them.

YOU, my man (going by the longhorn lol), are a genius! My god, what would happen if some of the people spouting rubbish on here found themselves in serious trouble with no home? Would they STILL think they were better than everyone else?! Not everyone can be tarred with the same brush. I know people who have milked the system or have made such poor choices that they were destined to end up spending their lives living off benefits. BUT that cannot be said for all and it's a disgrace that anyone would think themselves so important as to presume they know a persons circumstances and be so nasty about it. The more opinions I hear of some of the people in this country the more I despair of where we are going as a society

hdowney · 19-02-2011 9:01pm

randylonghorn wrote: »

Aren't nice? Aren't NICE?!!

Unfortunately, some of us were around.

And many of us viewed the Celtic Diseased Kitten with a great deal of cynicism.

And we watched the rise of the over-indulged RossOCK and Sorcha generation with even more cynicism, and hoped that they wouldn't land TOO heavily on their arse when the bubble burst.

Unfortunately, they are landing even more heavily than even the more cynical of us predicted.

indeed. and speaking of people judging others - as i said before i wasn't around in the previous bust. i was born in 1985 so after the last bad time of the 80's. however because of this a lot of people assume that i am one of those over-indulged cushy 20somethings who landed with an awful bump in the last couple yrs. i am FOREVER getting people saying things like 'now you know how we feel'. 'you have to survive now'. 'you won't get to continue on spending money like it is going out of fashion' etc. eh, scuse me but just cos i was born in the second half of the 80's does NOT mean i am one of the priviliged 90's kids.

i NEVER had it cushy. my mum was a single parent who when i was small couldn't afford childcare - there were no government thingys back then - and has no family around here so she couldn't work. COULDN'T not WOULDN'T. then she worked whatever jobs she could get her hands on, cos she has never been one to sit on her arse. unfortunately it is only in the last 10 or so years that she has gotten upskilling, and now there are no jobs again and she is getting on (sorry mum!!)

so there was never spare money for things. i didn't have foreign holidays. i didn't often have irish holidays even! i had second or more hand clothes. i couldn't afford to eat out, go on trips or buy things the way all the children around me could. i was by far the poorest child in the group of kids who hung around together growing up.

but that was my life. it wasn't the worst in the world. there were more worse off people than me in the world. my mother made sure i was clothed, fed and went to school. i was loved.

handily though, because i wasn't a boom child, whilst the recession hit like a bitch to me, i was more able to deal with it than the boom children who are struggling and complaining more. yes it sucks but whinging ain't gonna change it. learn to adapt.

however i do get soooo angry and people giving out to me when they assume i am like other people and not bothering to find out about me first.

Squirm · 19-02-2011 9:09pm

nix84 wrote: »

YOU, my man (going by the longhorn lol), are a genius! My god, what would happen if some of the people spouting rubbish on here found themselves in serious trouble with no home? Would they STILL think they were better than everyone else?! Not everyone can be tarred with the same brush. I know people who have milked the system or have made such poor choices that they were destined to end up spending their lives living off benefits. BUT that cannot be said for all and it's a disgrace that anyone would think themselves so important as to presume they know a persons circumstances and be so nasty about it. The more opinions I hear of some of the people in this country the more I despair of where we are going as a society

Where are we going as a society??? It's too terrifying to contemplate...

People survived the last recession because of their attitudes, the sense of community spirit, the sense of gratitude for what you DID have and a willingness to help those less 'well off' because you feel their pain (and don't know if one day you will be in their shoes).

The Celtic Tiger made selfish, self-obsessed, spoiled brats of too many people in this country and I fear we will struggle to stay afloat, the harder times get, because of it.

That said, I am pleased to see that not everyone here is demonstrating the same degree of sociopathy as the (hopefully) few right-wingers, that felt it necessary to ridicule a woman who came to them for advice.

clouds · 19-02-2011 9:22pm

There are a few who think it's a very neat equation between hard work and wealth. And that poverty = laziness. Each and every time, no shades of grey, no circumstances, no luck, no helping hands or ladders kicked out from under people, no useless parenting, no family assets.

It doesn't say a lot for peoples intellect, if the nuances and complexity of human life and society are beyond them.

Dudess · 19-02-2011 9:46pm

A lack of putting oneself in another's shoes too. For example, some kid who was born to a teenage junkie mother and spent his childhood and teens in and out of care, and basically never stood a chance, who then becomes a criminal. Well of course he's a little sh1t for committing crimes and he does have personal responsibility, but those people from comfortable, untroubled backgrounds who arrogantly state they'd have done things differently, when they cannot begin to conceive what life was like for him, don't seem to have any sense of perspective whatsoever.

mikemac · 20-02-2011 12:14am

Seems to be more of a Humanities thread then an accommodation thread at this stage

The_Conductor · 20-02-2011 8:35am

feelingstressed wrote: »

Seems to be more of a Humanities thread then an accommodation thread at this stage

I have to agree with you there. Providing it remains civil in nature- I'm happy enough to allow it to run though. I'm not sure that there is a more appropriate home for it.

man.about.town · 20-02-2011 8:39am

Graces7 wrote: »

Would YOU live there? No? Then have some sense, please.

Smiling wondering how long you would actually last there!!!

I for one am sick of being referred to as "scum" by eg landlords on this board because SHOCK HORROR! I need Rent Allowance AS WELL as a pension!
I mean HOW DARE I! Seek a roof over my old head!!

NB I am a disabled pensioner; been on disability most of my life through no fault of mine .... And am deeply thankful for a system that lets me live independently. When I was first ill, I went through a hell of guilt about taking benefits. My mother assured me that it was her taxes that were paying for it.. I get a small pension fron the UK and SHOCK HORROR! am entitled to RA here AND solid fuel allowance etc. The long delays in RA applications mean that I have around E10 a week for food etc; I live in bed to try to keep warm. That has been so all winter long. Solid Fuel is E20 a week; a bag of coal is between 14 and 17; go figure as they say.

Anyone who thinks these allowances are generous needs to live on them; they are adequate and fine if you don';t seek a way of life that is not meagre.

What please is your suggestion for an alternative? That we go back to the workhouse system? Or shall we expect old ones to lie down in ditches and die there?

Actually, the workhouse system would cost more as the 'workers" demand high wages.:eek:

OP: God reward you for having standards for your children. Please, do as the post advises and speak with the council; you know it might be that that house is available because no one else will take it either. Mpw there is a thought!!

yes and i sympathize with your plight, however, no i wouldn't last too long there and thats why i bought my own house in a place i wanted to live. i stand by what i said and have no qualms saying them again, OUR GENEROUS BENEFIT ENTITLEMENTS ARE FAR TO GENEROUS IN THE CURRENT CLIMATE. a complete overhaul is needed.

The_Conductor · 20-02-2011 9:07am

The issue in an Irish context- is that the average benefits accruing to an average family, exceed the net take home pay from the average wage. Aka- for someone earning the average wage with a family- there simply is no financial incentive to work.

I am not implying that benefits are too high with the above statement- or wages too low- simply that there is an imbalance that needs to be addressed. Part of readdressing this imbalance- has to be tackling the ridiculous cost of living in this country. The average person in employment is living in penury- and indeed many are actively jealous of those on benefits. Its now seen as impractical to have children unless you're on social welfare- its simply not possible to afford childcare and work- never mind the not inconsiderable costs of bringing up children. The average working person- would doubtless love to be in a position to take care of their children- instead of working to pay creche fees etc......

The whole Irish system needs a radical overhaul. Once the cost of living is brought back to some semblence of normality- we can reduce pensions and other benefits- in a similar manner to the cuts we've already introduced for the employed- and tax employment in a normal manner (which in an Irish context- if we expect universal healthcare- would imply an average tax rate approaching 60%)

We really have lost the run of ourselves since the early 1990s- we are not a wealthy country, though we like to think we are, and our current financial mess, is not something that is transient in nature- without radical restructuring- its pretty much going to be like this indefinitely........

Its all well and good for people to make their cases about protecting their own little corners- or for the groups to petition to protect the vunerable in society. The issue now is that perhaps 3/4 of Irish society are living from day to day- and see themselves as vunerable- which obviously is untenable........

danbohan · 20-02-2011 10:36am

Dudess wrote: »

It's really as black and white for you as the OP deciding "Right, I won't bother working and I'll apply for a council house" (despite you knowing very little about her, including no proof she or her partner doesn't work) and the council saying "You want a council house? Here ya go!" isn't it? Bless your simplistic view of the world...

Btw, where does this "People in council housing automatically don't work" sh1t come from? Funny, I know plenty of people housed by a local authority who work - some more than one job.

"Beggars can't be choosers" - what a horribly stuck-up phrase. Yep, the people living in estates where a tiny element is making the majority's lives a misery know that only too well...

it is that simple , in ireland their is an element in society who feel they have the right to live off other people or that they should have everything provided for them even they are not fit or willing to provide it for themselves eg last week of of a "gentleman" in galway getting free legal aid while the taxpayers of this country give him 44k a year for the dubious benefit of having him live among us .so if you are in a position where you are asking the goverment ie your friends and neighbors the taxpayers to provide housing for you and your family that you for whatever reason have chosen not to provide for yourself ,then take what you are given and be grateful you live in a society that feels it needs to provide you with shelter .

clouds · 20-02-2011 10:37am

There are a few issues here as I see it

The conflation of genuine claimants and scroungers, which in itself has shades of the Victorian notions of 'deserving' and 'undeserving' poor.

Are there even such people as genuine claimants, if they weren't so lazy and unambitous they'd be out slogging like ME. Therefore they're ALL scroungers. And how dare scroungers think they'll get something for nothing, they should be damn glad they're not left to die in a ditch.

Grass is greener syndrome and dare I say it, a lack of intelligence. A bit of beal bocht. Costs are rising, mortgage, childcare, insurance, petrol, very true. I feel the pinch also, but I'm not better off on social because those things I mentioned are all nice middle class trappings. Don't need any of them, and don't need to be on the dole to give them up. So why don't people just walk away from everything and move into private rented, jack in (one of) the job(s) and sell the car(s). They'd be laughing.

Rodin · 20-02-2011 10:39am

danbohan wrote: »

it is that simple , in ireland their is an element in society who feel they have the right to live off other people or that they should have everything provided for them even they are not fit or willing to provide it for themselves eg last week of of a "gentleman" in galway getting free legal aid while the taxpayers of this country give him 44k a year for the dubious benefit of having him live among us .so if you are in a position where you are asking the goverment ie your friends and neighbors the taxpayers to provide housing for you and your family that you for whatever reason have chosen not to provide for yourself ,then take what you are given and be grateful you live in a society that feels it needs to provide you with shelter .

The 'entitled' generation I call it

clouds · 20-02-2011 10:51am

And another thing.

We're all 'entitled'. Every single one of us feels we're entitled to something. I'm a tax payer and as such I'm entitled....I worked hard all my life and I'm entitled...I had a bad start in life and I'm entitled...

My personal opinion is that everyone IS entitled to a basic standard of human dignity and the neccessities of life, because I don't believe all poverty is self inflicted.

It's human nature to take what is offered, what they can get. Does it make a person evil? I don't know. Your typical right winger call in 'legitimate self interest' the further up the income ladder you go. (Usually when they are calling for less legislation for business, ie less protection & wages for employees, or lower taxes for higher earners) But near the bottom of the social scale, the very same behaviour and motives are called scrounging and sense of entitlement. So which is it?

I don't like the career claimants or the 'skangers' as much as the next person. BUT as the recent boom shows the number of unemployable is under 2%* of population. It sticks in the craw to be throwing money at 'that element'. But <shrug> it's the price you pay for civilization, imo.

(As an aside I think it was Adam Smith, 18thC 'Father of Free Market Economics' who said it was inevitable and BENEFICIAL to capitalist societies to have a small pool of unemployed, provides competition among the labour force. I am only 99% sure on that so maybe someone can confirm)

Rodin · 20-02-2011 10:55am

I got knocked up after unprotected sex with a lad who's name I don't know
I'm entitled

clouds · 20-02-2011 11:00am

Well you see I'm way better than you as I never had sex outside of marriage. My kids were conceived in Holy Matrimony therefore I'm considerably more entitled then yeeew.

TBH if I got knocked up by some jug eared p*sshead (even if I myself was a jug eared p*sshead) I'd be ENTITLED to support from him. IMO that's where the state should be looking when it comes to support for single parents.

That or shotgun weddings and Magdalen laundries.

Rodin · 20-02-2011 11:02am

clouds wrote: »

Well you see I'm way better than you as I never had sex outside of marriage. My kids were conceived in Holy Matrimony therefore I'm considerably more entitled then yeeew.

TBH if I got knocked up by some jug eared p*sshead (even if I myself was a jug eared p*sshead) I'd be ENTITLED to support from him. IMO that's where the state should be looking when it comes to support for single parents.

That or shotgun weddings and Magdalen laundries.

Now you're talking!

I just got offer council house from hell !

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